Cindy Sheehan calls it quits (1 Viewer)

[TheIronSheik]

For those of you claiming her sons death meant something to you, can you explain what it meant to you?

It meant he was willing to risk his life for this country -- the most noble act I can imagine.

For his country??? I am not sure what you mean by this.

Really? What else do you call it when you volunteer for military service?

Today, when you volunteer for military service, you serve the interests of select individuals, not the citizens of our country. Don't you remember the Iraq wars???

I miss the good ole days when the US citizens got to pick who we went to war with. Consider yourself lucky, Canada. Consider yourself lucky.

 

[aardball44]

I posted it a while back, but Casey died while on a RESCUE mission. That is hardly meaningless.

I'm not arguing his death was meaningless.I'm arguing it was unnecessary. This has always been an unnecessary war, from the day it began. Unfortunately it's a lot more worse things than "unnecessary" now.

What is your definition of a "necessary" war?

Our 2002 foray into Afghanistan comes to mind.

That's not a definition, that's an example.

Point taken.Let's start with "unavoidable". Could we have avoided a confrontation with Iraq and still have achieved our goals? I believe so. Could we have done this without looking weak? I believe so. Could we have done this without committing a third of a trillion dollars, 140k troops (plus consultants, contractors and mercenaries), the lost lives of 3,500 American servicemen and untold thousands of Iraqi citizens to the endeavor? Unavoidably.Have more than four years of this war put us closer to our goals, or further away?

 

[Ray Stevens]

Have more than four years of this war put us closer to our goals, or further away?

I might be able to answer that question if I knew what the hell our goals were to begin with.

 

[Rayderr]

Have more than four years of this war put us closer to our goals, or further away?

I might be able to answer that question if I knew what the hell our goals were to begin with.

Well, the ultimate goal was to make the US safer from terrorist attacks. And honestly, I'd say it probably has just because it's easier for the terrorists to pull off bombs in the wild wild west of Iraq than in video cameras everywhere US.

 

[Foosball God]

Has the war in Iraq had an unintended benefit? We have not had a terrorist incident in the United States since 9/11. Perhaps because the radicals have easier, more accessable targets in Iraq?

 

[beavers]

For those of you claiming her sons death meant something to you, can you explain what it meant to you?

It meant he was willing to risk his life for this country -- the most noble act I can imagine.

For his country??? I am not sure what you mean by this.

Really? What else do you call it when you volunteer for military service?

Today, when you volunteer for military service, you serve the interests of select individuals, not the citizens of our country. Don't you remember the Iraq wars???

I miss the good ole days when the US citizens got to pick who we went to war with. Consider yourself lucky, Canada. Consider yourself lucky.

In our “democracy”, the citizens of our country elect leaders into office to represent their beliefs and make decisions on their behalf. Those elected representatives retain the freedom to exercise their own "judgment" as how best to do so. First of all, in 2000 GWB stole the election. We all know that. Then, he exploited lives lost on 9/11 by going to war in Afghanistan/Iraq to satisfy the interests of select individuals, not those who “voted” him into office. Simple civics lesson, my friend.

 

[aardball44]

 

[Foosball God]

For those of you claiming her sons death meant something to you, can you explain what it meant to you?

It meant he was willing to risk his life for this country -- the most noble act I can imagine.

For his country??? I am not sure what you mean by this.

Really? What else do you call it when you volunteer for military service?

Today, when you volunteer for military service, you serve the interests of select individuals, not the citizens of our country. Don't you remember the Iraq wars???

I miss the good ole days when the US citizens got to pick who we went to war with. Consider yourself lucky, Canada. Consider yourself lucky.

In our “democracy”, the citizens of our country elect leaders into office to represent their beliefs and make decisions on their behalf. Those elected representatives retain the freedom to exercise their own "judgment" as how best to do so. First of all, in 2000 GWB stole the election. We all know that. Then, he exploited lives lost on 9/11 by going to war in Afghanistan/Iraq to satisfy the interests of select individuals, not those who “voted” him into office. Simple civics lesson, my friend.

OK, all credibility lost.

 

[Rayderr]

For those of you claiming her sons death meant something to you, can you explain what it meant to you?

It meant he was willing to risk his life for this country -- the most noble act I can imagine.

For his country??? I am not sure what you mean by this.

Really? What else do you call it when you volunteer for military service?

Today, when you volunteer for military service, you serve the interests of select individuals, not the citizens of our country. Don't you remember the Iraq wars???

I miss the good ole days when the US citizens got to pick who we went to war with. Consider yourself lucky, Canada. Consider yourself lucky.

In our “democracy”, the citizens of our country elect leaders into office to represent their beliefs and make decisions on their behalf. Those elected representatives retain the freedom to exercise their own "judgment" as how best to do so. First of all, in 2000 GWB stole the election. We all know that. Then, he exploited lives lost on 9/11 by going to war in Afghanistan/Iraq to satisfy the interests of select individuals, not those who “voted” him into office. Simple civics lesson, my friend.

Yes, when America wasn't looking, he just walked into the White House and claimed squatter's rights. It's stupid statements like "Bush stole the election" that makes it impossible for me to take the ultra left seriously.

 

[Soonerman]

For those of you claiming her sons death meant something to you, can you explain what it meant to you?

It meant he was willing to risk his life for this country -- the most noble act I can imagine.

For his country??? I am not sure what you mean by this.

Really? What else do you call it when you volunteer for military service?

Today, when you volunteer for military service, you serve the interests of select individuals, not the citizens of our country. Don't you remember the Iraq wars???

I miss the good ole days when the US citizens got to pick who we went to war with. Consider yourself lucky, Canada. Consider yourself lucky.

In our “democracy”, the citizens of our country elect leaders into office to represent their beliefs and make decisions on their behalf. Those elected representatives retain the freedom to exercise their own "judgment" as how best to do so. First of all, in 2000 GWB stole the election. We all know that. Then, he exploited lives lost on 9/11 by going to war in Afghanistan/Iraq to satisfy the interests of select individuals, not those who “voted” him into office. Simple civics lesson, my friend.

"Simple" pretty much describes it alright.

 

[Christo]

The ironic thing is she has been irrelevent for the entire time she has been in public. She didn't change any policy, and the Democrats just ignored her also.

The sorriest thing about the whole episode is that the Democrats used her when it fit their agenda and then tossed her aside. They truly are the lowest form of pond scum.

 

[beavers]

For those of you claiming her sons death meant something to you, can you explain what it meant to you?

It meant he was willing to risk his life for this country -- the most noble act I can imagine.

For his country??? I am not sure what you mean by this.

Really? What else do you call it when you volunteer for military service?

Today, when you volunteer for military service, you serve the interests of select individuals, not the citizens of our country. Don't you remember the Iraq wars???

I miss the good ole days when the US citizens got to pick who we went to war with. Consider yourself lucky, Canada. Consider yourself lucky.

In our “democracy”, the citizens of our country elect leaders into office to represent their beliefs and make decisions on their behalf. Those elected representatives retain the freedom to exercise their own "judgment" as how best to do so. First of all, in 2000 GWB stole the election. We all know that. Then, he exploited lives lost on 9/11 by going to war in Afghanistan/Iraq to satisfy the interests of select individuals, not those who “voted” him into office. Simple civics lesson, my friend.

Yes, when America wasn't looking, he just walked into the White House and claimed squatter's rights. It's stupid statements like "Bush stole the election" that makes it impossible for me to take the ultra left seriously.

You hit the nail on the head.

 

[beavers]

The ironic thing is she has been irrelevent for the entire time she has been in public. She didn't change any policy, and the Democrats just ignored her also.

The sorriest thing about the whole episode is that the Democrats used her when it fit their agenda and then tossed her aside. They truly are the lowest form of pond scum.

It's funny, I was thinking the same thing.

 

[Foosball God]

For those of you claiming her sons death meant something to you, can you explain what it meant to you?

It meant he was willing to risk his life for this country -- the most noble act I can imagine.

For his country??? I am not sure what you mean by this.

Really? What else do you call it when you volunteer for military service?

Today, when you volunteer for military service, you serve the interests of select individuals, not the citizens of our country. Don't you remember the Iraq wars???

I miss the good ole days when the US citizens got to pick who we went to war with. Consider yourself lucky, Canada. Consider yourself lucky.

In our “democracy”, the citizens of our country elect leaders into office to represent their beliefs and make decisions on their behalf. Those elected representatives retain the freedom to exercise their own "judgment" as how best to do so. First of all, in 2000 GWB stole the election. We all know that. Then, he exploited lives lost on 9/11 by going to war in Afghanistan/Iraq to satisfy the interests of select individuals, not those who “voted” him into office. Simple civics lesson, my friend.

Yes, when America wasn't looking, he just walked into the White House and claimed squatter's rights. It's stupid statements like "Bush stole the election" that makes it impossible for me to take the ultra left seriously.

You hit the nail on the head.

Yeah, nobody was paying any attention to that election. Hell, I forget, who was he running against again?

 

[Ray Stevens]

Has the war in Iraq had an unintended benefit? We have not had a terrorist incident in the United States since 9/11. Perhaps because the radicals have easier, more accessable targets in Iraq?

I guess you could call that an even tradeoff, considering as many people died in Iraq as 9/11. Except Iraq is more expensive.

 

[Christo]

I posted it a while back, but Casey died while on a RESCUE mission. That is hardly meaningless.

I'm not arguing his death was meaningless.I'm arguing it was unnecessary.

This has always been an unnecessary war, from the day it began. Unfortunately it's a lot more worse things than "unnecessary" now.

What is your definition of a "necessary" war?

Our 2002 foray into Afghanistan comes to mind.

That's not a definition, that's an example.

And not a good one at that. The war in Afghnistan wasn't necessary either. The only necessary war is a defensive war.

 

[Rayderr]

Has the war in Iraq had an unintended benefit? We have not had a terrorist incident in the United States since 9/11. Perhaps because the radicals have easier, more accessable targets in Iraq?

I guess you could call that an even tradeoff, considering as many people died in Iraq as 9/11. Except Iraq is more expensive.

9/11 resulted in just 19 dead hijackers. Iraq war has killed and captured a lot more. So given the choice between the 2, I'd take the Iraq War.

 

[Christo]

For those of you claiming her sons death meant something to you, can you explain what it meant to you?

It meant he was willing to risk his life for this country -- the most noble act I can imagine.

For his country??? I am not sure what you mean by this.

Really? What else do you call it when you volunteer for military service?

Today, when you volunteer for military service, you serve the interests of select individuals, not the citizens of our country. Don't you remember the Iraq wars???

I miss the good ole days when the US citizens got to pick who we went to war with. Consider yourself lucky, Canada. Consider yourself lucky.

In our “democracy”, the citizens of our country elect leaders into office to represent their beliefs and make decisions on their behalf. Those elected representatives retain the freedom to exercise their own "judgment" as how best to do so. First of all, in 2000 GWB stole the election. We all know that. Then, he exploited lives lost on 9/11 by going to war in Afghanistan/Iraq to satisfy the interests of select individuals, not those who “voted” him into office. Simple civics lesson, my friend.

Wow

 

[Yankee23Fan]

For those of you claiming her sons death meant something to you, can you explain what it meant to you?

It meant he was willing to risk his life for this country -- the most noble act I can imagine.

For his country??? I am not sure what you mean by this.

Really? What else do you call it when you volunteer for military service?

Today, when you volunteer for military service, you serve the interests of select individuals, not the citizens of our country. Don't you remember the Iraq wars???

I miss the good ole days when the US citizens got to pick who we went to war with. Consider yourself lucky, Canada. Consider yourself lucky.

In our “democracy”, the citizens of our country elect leaders into office to represent their beliefs and make decisions on their behalf. Those elected representatives retain the freedom to exercise their own "judgment" as how best to do so. First of all, in 2000 GWB stole the election. We all know that. Then, he exploited lives lost on 9/11 by going to war in Afghanistan/Iraq to satisfy the interests of select individuals, not those who “voted” him into office. Simple civics lesson, my friend.

Wow. The America of your dimension must suck.

 

[H Jass]

For those of you claiming her sons death meant something to you, can you explain what it meant to you?

It meant he was willing to risk his life for this country -- the most noble act I can imagine.

For his country??? I am not sure what you mean by this.

Really? What else do you call it when you volunteer for military service?

Today, when you volunteer for military service, you serve the interests of select individuals, not the citizens of our country. Don't you remember the Iraq wars???

I miss the good ole days when the US citizens got to pick who we went to war with. Consider yourself lucky, Canada. Consider yourself lucky.

In our “democracy”, the citizens of our country elect leaders into office to represent their beliefs and make decisions on their behalf. Those elected representatives retain the freedom to exercise their own "judgment" as how best to do so. First of all, in 2000 GWB stole the election. We all know that. Then, he exploited lives lost on 9/11 by going to war in Afghanistan/Iraq to satisfy the interests of select individuals, not those who “voted” him into office. Simple civics lesson, my friend.

Wow

No kidding, you could see it developing in his prior posts, but I didn't think he'd go for it. "Now entering Babu Bhatt territory."

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Her son's death isn't meaningless just because she says so.

Her son found his calling meaningful. She's upset he's gone, but the fact that she refused to accept his choice is where I have a beef with the woman.

His death meant something. To him, to me, to this country. I'm saddened that she feels it meaningless.

Could you elaborate on what his death meant to you or to this country?

For me, the military, police, fire and other public servants are the most admirable of professions and each and every person's sacrifice, whether it be their life, their time away from families, or the risk of serious injury or harm they put themselves in on a daily basis is absolutely meaningful to me. Am I allowed to question the decision of the commander in chief and the politicians who choose how to fight this war? Sure. But this young man's decision to fight for our country should NEVER, F'N EVER be said to have been for nothing. He is to be honored and admired. SO FREAKING IRONIC THAT TODAY IS THE DAY AFTER MEMORIAL DAY AND I HAVE TO FREAKING EXPLAIN THIS.

Good Posting doesn't cover it here... Excellent Posting.

Not really. The day after Memorial Day doesn't have anything to do with explaining what you mean when you say someone's death meant something to you. And when the explanation is finally given that it is "absolutely meaningful" to him it seems more like empty chest-thumping, flag-waiving, patriotic-posturing posting than good posting to me.

You may not like the war. You may not like the president. You may not like the system of government. But the role of our servicemen and women is vital to our way of life and to the operation of our system. Believe this war is foolhardy. I may or may not argue with you. Believe Casey Sheehan's death was avoidable. You might be right. Try to tell me it was "meaningless" and I will argue that point with you to no end.

And whether his sacrifice was meaningful is unaffected by the justness or unjustness of the war. The meaningfulness of Pat Tillman's sacrifice isn't lessened by any errors that were made and/or how he was killed. Their sacrifices were established at the time they chose to serve and made the commitment to give their life for their country.

Bemoan all you want about the war, its real meaning, the decisions of the those in power...but that doesn't change for a second the fact that these sacrifices are MEANINGFUL.

End Rant. If you don't see it, you won't.

Wow. Glad you got that off your chest.

I was just wondering what you mean when you say her son's death was meaningful to you.

 

[beavers]

Has the war in Iraq had an unintended benefit? We have not had a terrorist incident in the United States since 9/11. Perhaps because the radicals have easier, more accessable targets in Iraq?

I guess you could call that an even tradeoff, considering as many people died in Iraq as 9/11. Except Iraq is more expensive.

9/11 resulted in just 19 dead hijackers. Iraq war has killed and captured a lot more. So given the choice between the 2, I'd take the Iraq War.

So you still think there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11?

 

[beavers]

For those of you claiming her sons death meant something to you, can you explain what it meant to you?

It meant he was willing to risk his life for this country -- the most noble act I can imagine.

For his country??? I am not sure what you mean by this.

Really? What else do you call it when you volunteer for military service?

Today, when you volunteer for military service, you serve the interests of select individuals, not the citizens of our country. Don't you remember the Iraq wars???

I miss the good ole days when the US citizens got to pick who we went to war with. Consider yourself lucky, Canada. Consider yourself lucky.

In our “democracy”, the citizens of our country elect leaders into office to represent their beliefs and make decisions on their behalf. Those elected representatives retain the freedom to exercise their own "judgment" as how best to do so. First of all, in 2000 GWB stole the election. We all know that. Then, he exploited lives lost on 9/11 by going to war in Afghanistan/Iraq to satisfy the interests of select individuals, not those who “voted” him into office. Simple civics lesson, my friend.

Wow. The America of your dimension must suck.

Actually, it doesn't.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Her son's death isn't meaningless just because she says so.

Her son found his calling meaningful. She's upset he's gone, but the fact that she refused to accept his choice is where I have a beef with the woman.

His death meant something. To him, to me, to this country. I'm saddened that she feels it meaningless.

Could you elaborate on what his death meant to you or to this country?

For me, the military, police, fire and other public servants are the most admirable of professions and each and every person's sacrifice, whether it be their life, their time away from families, or the risk of serious injury or harm they put themselves in on a daily basis is absolutely meaningful to me. Am I allowed to question the decision of the commander in chief and the politicians who choose how to fight this war? Sure. But this young man's decision to fight for our country should NEVER, F'N EVER be said to have been for nothing. He is to be honored and admired. SO FREAKING IRONIC THAT TODAY IS THE DAY AFTER MEMORIAL DAY AND I HAVE TO FREAKING EXPLAIN THIS.

Good Posting doesn't cover it here... Excellent Posting.

Not really. The day after Memorial Day doesn't have anything to do with explaining what you mean when you say someone's death meant something to you. And when the explanation is finally given that it is "absolutely meaningful" to him it seems more like empty chest-thumping, flag-waiving, patriotic-posturing posting than good posting to me.

Are you just focusing on the last sentence because it's in all CAPS? This is about more than just Memorial Day. This is about a man who put his life on the line and made the ultimate sacfrifice because his country asked him to. Set your political opinions aside for a minute and try to focus on that, whether you think the war is "right" or not.

That makes no sense. I ask a question to hear another's point of view - and get a political rant. And then you tell me to set aside my political opinions? If you can't explain what you mean, that's cool, I was basically asking anyone who felt that way.

 

[Rayderr]

Has the war in Iraq had an unintended benefit? We have not had a terrorist incident in the United States since 9/11. Perhaps because the radicals have easier, more accessable targets in Iraq?

I guess you could call that an even tradeoff, considering as many people died in Iraq as 9/11. Except Iraq is more expensive.

9/11 resulted in just 19 dead hijackers. Iraq war has killed and captured a lot more. So given the choice between the 2, I'd take the Iraq War.

So you still think there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11?

At the time we went to war. No. Now, yes. You can't deny that there are in fact terrorists in Iraq now that are attacking our troops and the Iraqi people. Hell, Bin Laden has sent out audio tapes saying Al Qaeda is Iraq. People can argue left and right whether or not there was any terrorist connection prior to invasion, but it is undeniable that there are terrorists there now.

 

[redman]

Her son's death isn't meaningless just because she says so.

Her son found his calling meaningful. She's upset he's gone, but the fact that she refused to accept his choice is where I have a beef with the woman.

His death meant something. To him, to me, to this country. I'm saddened that she feels it meaningless.

Could you elaborate on what his death meant to you or to this country?

For me, the military, police, fire and other public servants are the most admirable of professions and each and every person's sacrifice, whether it be their life, their time away from families, or the risk of serious injury or harm they put themselves in on a daily basis is absolutely meaningful to me. Am I allowed to question the decision of the commander in chief and the politicians who choose how to fight this war? Sure. But this young man's decision to fight for our country should NEVER, F'N EVER be said to have been for nothing. He is to be honored and admired. SO FREAKING IRONIC THAT TODAY IS THE DAY AFTER MEMORIAL DAY AND I HAVE TO FREAKING EXPLAIN THIS.

Good Posting doesn't cover it here... Excellent Posting.

Not really. The day after Memorial Day doesn't have anything to do with explaining what you mean when you say someone's death meant something to you. And when the explanation is finally given that it is "absolutely meaningful" to him it seems more like empty chest-thumping, flag-waiving, patriotic-posturing posting than good posting to me.

And your didactic treatment of the meaning of a soldier's death sounds like the overly dismissive posturing of someone prone to criticizing the military effort. If the shoe fits . . .

 

[beavers]

Has the war in Iraq had an unintended benefit? We have not had a terrorist incident in the United States since 9/11. Perhaps because the radicals have easier, more accessable targets in Iraq?

I guess you could call that an even tradeoff, considering as many people died in Iraq as 9/11. Except Iraq is more expensive.

9/11 resulted in just 19 dead hijackers. Iraq war has killed and captured a lot more. So given the choice between the 2, I'd take the Iraq War.

So you still think there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11?

At the time we went to war. No. Now, yes. You can't deny that there are in fact terrorists in Iraq now that are attacking our troops and the Iraqi people. Hell, Bin Laden has sent out audio tapes saying Al Qaeda is Iraq. People can argue left and right whether or not there was any terrorist connection prior to invasion, but it is undeniable that there are terrorists there now.

You admit that the Iraq war has created a terrorists resort. Exactly my point.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

Her son's death isn't meaningless just because she says so.

Her son found his calling meaningful. She's upset he's gone, but the fact that she refused to accept his choice is where I have a beef with the woman.

His death meant something. To him, to me, to this country. I'm saddened that she feels it meaningless.

Could you elaborate on what his death meant to you or to this country?

For me, the military, police, fire and other public servants are the most admirable of professions and each and every person's sacrifice, whether it be their life, their time away from families, or the risk of serious injury or harm they put themselves in on a daily basis is absolutely meaningful to me. Am I allowed to question the decision of the commander in chief and the politicians who choose how to fight this war? Sure. But this young man's decision to fight for our country should NEVER, F'N EVER be said to have been for nothing. He is to be honored and admired. SO FREAKING IRONIC THAT TODAY IS THE DAY AFTER MEMORIAL DAY AND I HAVE TO FREAKING EXPLAIN THIS.

Good Posting doesn't cover it here... Excellent Posting.

Not really. The day after Memorial Day doesn't have anything to do with explaining what you mean when you say someone's death meant something to you. And when the explanation is finally given that it is "absolutely meaningful" to him it seems more like empty chest-thumping, flag-waiving, patriotic-posturing posting than good posting to me.

Are you just focusing on the last sentence because it's in all CAPS? This is about more than just Memorial Day. This is about a man who put his life on the line and made the ultimate sacfrifice because his country asked him to. Set your political opinions aside for a minute and try to focus on that, whether you think the war is "right" or not.

That makes no sense. I ask a question to hear another's point of view - and get a political rant. And then you tell me to set aside my political opinions? If you can't explain what you mean, that's cool, I was basically asking anyone who felt that way.

Rant yes. Political, no. You don't know my politics and I daresay you've made the wrong assumption about them.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Her son's death isn't meaningless just because she says so.

Her son found his calling meaningful. She's upset he's gone, but the fact that she refused to accept his choice is where I have a beef with the woman.

His death meant something. To him, to me, to this country. I'm saddened that she feels it meaningless.

Could you elaborate on what his death meant to you or to this country?

For me, the military, police, fire and other public servants are the most admirable of professions and each and every person's sacrifice, whether it be their life, their time away from families, or the risk of serious injury or harm they put themselves in on a daily basis is absolutely meaningful to me. Am I allowed to question the decision of the commander in chief and the politicians who choose how to fight this war? Sure. But this young man's decision to fight for our country should NEVER, F'N EVER be said to have been for nothing. He is to be honored and admired. SO FREAKING IRONIC THAT TODAY IS THE DAY AFTER MEMORIAL DAY AND I HAVE TO FREAKING EXPLAIN THIS.

Good Posting doesn't cover it here... Excellent Posting.

Not really. The day after Memorial Day doesn't have anything to do with explaining what you mean when you say someone's death meant something to you. And when the explanation is finally given that it is "absolutely meaningful" to him it seems more like empty chest-thumping, flag-waiving, patriotic-posturing posting than good posting to me.

And your didactic treatment of the meaning of a soldier's death sounds like the overly dismissive posturing of someone prone to criticizing the military effort. If the shoe fits . . .

Link to my treatment of the meaning of the soldiers death?Or my criticizing the military effort?

Nice try.

 

[Rayderr]

Has the war in Iraq had an unintended benefit? We have not had a terrorist incident in the United States since 9/11. Perhaps because the radicals have easier, more accessable targets in Iraq?

I guess you could call that an even tradeoff, considering as many people died in Iraq as 9/11. Except Iraq is more expensive.

9/11 resulted in just 19 dead hijackers. Iraq war has killed and captured a lot more. So given the choice between the 2, I'd take the Iraq War.

So you still think there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11?

At the time we went to war. No. Now, yes. You can't deny that there are in fact terrorists in Iraq now that are attacking our troops and the Iraqi people. Hell, Bin Laden has sent out audio tapes saying Al Qaeda is Iraq. People can argue left and right whether or not there was any terrorist connection prior to invasion, but it is undeniable that there are terrorists there now.

You admit that the Iraq war has created a terrorists resort. Exactly my point.

I wouldn't say a terrorists resort. Just an opportunity for them to strike at the troops that would eventually be coming for them.

 

[TheIronSheik]

For those of you claiming her sons death meant something to you, can you explain what it meant to you?

It meant he was willing to risk his life for this country -- the most noble act I can imagine.

For his country??? I am not sure what you mean by this.

Really? What else do you call it when you volunteer for military service?

Today, when you volunteer for military service, you serve the interests of select individuals, not the citizens of our country. Don't you remember the Iraq wars???

I miss the good ole days when the US citizens got to pick who we went to war with. Consider yourself lucky, Canada. Consider yourself lucky.

In our “democracy”, the citizens of our country elect leaders into office to represent their beliefs and make decisions on their behalf. Those elected representatives retain the freedom to exercise their own "judgment" as how best to do so. First of all, in 2000 GWB stole the election. We all know that. Then, he exploited lives lost on 9/11 by going to war in Afghanistan/Iraq to satisfy the interests of select individuals, not those who “voted” him into office. Simple civics lesson, my friend.

I almost quit reading after the moronic sentence before the highlighted one. Luckily I didn't because I would have missed this gem. If you remember correctly, Bush caught a bunch of crap for trying to use diplomacy with Afghanistan instead of just attacking them on 9/12.

 

[redman]

Her son's death isn't meaningless just because she says so.

Her son found his calling meaningful. She's upset he's gone, but the fact that she refused to accept his choice is where I have a beef with the woman.

His death meant something. To him, to me, to this country. I'm saddened that she feels it meaningless.

Could you elaborate on what his death meant to you or to this country?

For me, the military, police, fire and other public servants are the most admirable of professions and each and every person's sacrifice, whether it be their life, their time away from families, or the risk of serious injury or harm they put themselves in on a daily basis is absolutely meaningful to me. Am I allowed to question the decision of the commander in chief and the politicians who choose how to fight this war? Sure. But this young man's decision to fight for our country should NEVER, F'N EVER be said to have been for nothing. He is to be honored and admired. SO FREAKING IRONIC THAT TODAY IS THE DAY AFTER MEMORIAL DAY AND I HAVE TO FREAKING EXPLAIN THIS.

Good Posting doesn't cover it here... Excellent Posting.

Not really. The day after Memorial Day doesn't have anything to do with explaining what you mean when you say someone's death meant something to you. And when the explanation is finally given that it is "absolutely meaningful" to him it seems more like empty chest-thumping, flag-waiving, patriotic-posturing posting than good posting to me.

And your didactic treatment of the meaning of a soldier's death sounds like the overly dismissive posturing of someone prone to criticizing the military effort. If the shoe fits . . .

Link to my treatment of the meaning of the soldiers death?Or my criticizing the military effort?

Nice try.

Link to my treatment of the meaning of the soldiers death?As you wish.

Or my criticizing the military effort?

I'm referring to your stance in your posts in this forum overall, not (just) this post.

Nice try.

 

[beavers]

For those of you claiming her sons death meant something to you, can you explain what it meant to you?

It meant he was willing to risk his life for this country -- the most noble act I can imagine.

For his country??? I am not sure what you mean by this.

Really? What else do you call it when you volunteer for military service?

Today, when you volunteer for military service, you serve the interests of select individuals, not the citizens of our country. Don't you remember the Iraq wars???

I miss the good ole days when the US citizens got to pick who we went to war with. Consider yourself lucky, Canada. Consider yourself lucky.

In our “democracy”, the citizens of our country elect leaders into office to represent their beliefs and make decisions on their behalf. Those elected representatives retain the freedom to exercise their own "judgment" as how best to do so. First of all, in 2000 GWB stole the election. We all know that. Then, he exploited lives lost on 9/11 by going to war in Afghanistan/Iraq to satisfy the interests of select individuals, not those who “voted” him into office. Simple civics lesson, my friend.

I almost quit reading after the moronic sentence before the highlighted one. Luckily I didn't because I would have missed this gem. If you remember correctly, Bush caught a bunch of crap for trying to use diplomacy with Afghanistan instead of just attacking them on 9/12.

Wasn't his approval rating in the 80 or 90% range right after 9/11? Sure must have been a lot of crap... Using Bush and diplomacy in the same sentence = priceless

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Wow, this thread got entertaining.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Her son's death isn't meaningless just because she says so.

Her son found his calling meaningful. She's upset he's gone, but the fact that she refused to accept his choice is where I have a beef with the woman.

His death meant something. To him, to me, to this country. I'm saddened that she feels it meaningless.

Could you elaborate on what his death meant to you or to this country?

For me, the military, police, fire and other public servants are the most admirable of professions and each and every person's sacrifice, whether it be their life, their time away from families, or the risk of serious injury or harm they put themselves in on a daily basis is absolutely meaningful to me. Am I allowed to question the decision of the commander in chief and the politicians who choose how to fight this war? Sure. But this young man's decision to fight for our country should NEVER, F'N EVER be said to have been for nothing. He is to be honored and admired. SO FREAKING IRONIC THAT TODAY IS THE DAY AFTER MEMORIAL DAY AND I HAVE TO FREAKING EXPLAIN THIS.

Good Posting doesn't cover it here... Excellent Posting.

Not really. The day after Memorial Day doesn't have anything to do with explaining what you mean when you say someone's death meant something to you. And when the explanation is finally given that it is "absolutely meaningful" to him it seems more like empty chest-thumping, flag-waiving, patriotic-posturing posting than good posting to me.

And your didactic treatment of the meaning of a soldier's death sounds like the overly dismissive posturing of someone prone to criticizing the military effort. If the shoe fits . . .

Link to my treatment of the meaning of the soldiers death?Or my criticizing the military effort?

Nice try.

Link to my treatment of the meaning of the soldiers death?As you wish.

Or my criticizing the military effort?

I'm referring to your stance in your posts in this forum overall, not (just) this post.

Nice try.

Weak. You linked to this:For those of you claiming her sons death meant something to you, can you explain what it meant to you?

Care to try again to back up your BS statement? I'll wait.

 

[Rhino]

Her son's death isn't meaningless just because she says so.

Her son found his calling meaningful. She's upset he's gone, but the fact that she refused to accept his choice is where I have a beef with the woman.

His death meant something. To him, to me, to this country. I'm saddened that she feels it meaningless.

Could you elaborate on what his death meant to you or to this country?

For me, the military, police, fire and other public servants are the most admirable of professions and each and every person's sacrifice, whether it be their life, their time away from families, or the risk of serious injury or harm they put themselves in on a daily basis is absolutely meaningful to me. Am I allowed to question the decision of the commander in chief and the politicians who choose how to fight this war? Sure. But this young man's decision to fight for our country should NEVER, F'N EVER be said to have been for nothing. He is to be honored and admired. SO FREAKING IRONIC THAT TODAY IS THE DAY AFTER MEMORIAL DAY AND I HAVE TO FREAKING EXPLAIN THIS.

Good Posting doesn't cover it here... Excellent Posting.

Not really. The day after Memorial Day doesn't have anything to do with explaining what you mean when you say someone's death meant something to you. And when the explanation is finally given that it is "absolutely meaningful" to him it seems more like empty chest-thumping, flag-waiving, patriotic-posturing posting than good posting to me.

And your didactic treatment of the meaning of a soldier's death sounds like the overly dismissive posturing of someone prone to criticizing the military effort. If the shoe fits . . .

Link to my treatment of the meaning of the soldiers death?Or my criticizing the military effort?

Nice try.

Link to my treatment of the meaning of the soldiers death?As you wish.

Or my criticizing the military effort?

I'm referring to your stance in your posts in this forum overall, not (just) this post.

Nice try.

Weak. You linked to this:For those of you claiming her sons death meant something to you, can you explain what it meant to you?

Care to try again to back up your BS statement? I'll wait.

Casey Sheehan's death means the same to me as the sacrifices of all the men and women in the military. I am profoundly grateful and humbled by the sacrifices they make for our country.As a husband with three kids, a nice home and a good job, I could not imagine making the sacrifices that these men and women make. They leave their familes behind to go half a world away and put their life on the line. I couldn't do it. But they do. And for that, I am in their debt.

Never mind WHY they are there, fighting that war. Ignore the politics, whether it's "right" or "wrong" - what side of the arguement you're on. The reality is that every day those men and women are out there doing their job and putting themselves in harms way, or supporting the people that do put themselves in harms way. That's honorable.

That's why her son's death means something to me.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

For those of you claiming her sons death meant something to you, can you explain what it meant to you?

Casey Sheehan's death means the same to me as the sacrifices of all the men and women in the military. I am profoundly grateful and humbled by the sacrifices they make for our country.As a husband with three kids, a nice home and a good job, I could not imagine making the sacrifices that these men and women make. They leave their familes behind to go half a world away and put their life on the line. I couldn't do it. But they do. And for that, I am in their debt.

Never mind WHY they are there, fighting that war. Ignore the politics, whether it's "right" or "wrong" - what side of the arguement you're on. The reality is that every day those men and women are out there doing their job and putting themselves in harms way, or supporting the people that do put themselves in harms way. That's honorable.

That's why her son's death means something to me.

Thanks Rhino. I appreciate the response.

 

[Rhino]

For those of you claiming her sons death meant something to you, can you explain what it meant to you?

Casey Sheehan's death means the same to me as the sacrifices of all the men and women in the military. I am profoundly grateful and humbled by the sacrifices they make for our country.As a husband with three kids, a nice home and a good job, I could not imagine making the sacrifices that these men and women make. They leave their familes behind to go half a world away and put their life on the line. I couldn't do it. But they do. And for that, I am in their debt.

Never mind WHY they are there, fighting that war. Ignore the politics, whether it's "right" or "wrong" - what side of the arguement you're on. The reality is that every day those men and women are out there doing their job and putting themselves in harms way, or supporting the people that do put themselves in harms way. That's honorable.

That's why her son's death means something to me.

Thanks Rhino. I appreciate the response.

No problem. I think that's what's getting lost here - from Idiot Boxer's very first post, I got that same message in what he was saying. Apparently you read something different into his responses.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

For those of you claiming her sons death meant something to you, can you explain what it meant to you?

Casey Sheehan's death means the same to me as the sacrifices of all the men and women in the military. I am profoundly grateful and humbled by the sacrifices they make for our country.As a husband with three kids, a nice home and a good job, I could not imagine making the sacrifices that these men and women make. They leave their familes behind to go half a world away and put their life on the line. I couldn't do it. But they do. And for that, I am in their debt.

Never mind WHY they are there, fighting that war. Ignore the politics, whether it's "right" or "wrong" - what side of the arguement you're on. The reality is that every day those men and women are out there doing their job and putting themselves in harms way, or supporting the people that do put themselves in harms way. That's honorable.

That's why her son's death means something to me.

Thanks Rhino. I appreciate the response.

No problem. I think that's what's getting lost here - from Idiot Boxer's very first post, I got that same message in what he was saying. Apparently you read something different into his responses.

He wanted to imply some political agenda on my part, I'm not sure why.

 

[Foosball God]

For those of you claiming her sons death meant something to you, can you explain what it meant to you?

Casey Sheehan's death means the same to me as the sacrifices of all the men and women in the military. I am profoundly grateful and humbled by the sacrifices they make for our country.As a husband with three kids, a nice home and a good job, I could not imagine making the sacrifices that these men and women make. They leave their familes behind to go half a world away and put their life on the line. I couldn't do it. But they do. And for that, I am in their debt.

Never mind WHY they are there, fighting that war. Ignore the politics, whether it's "right" or "wrong" - what side of the arguement you're on. The reality is that every day those men and women are out there doing their job and putting themselves in harms way, or supporting the people that do put themselves in harms way. That's honorable.

That's why her son's death means something to me.

Thanks Rhino. I appreciate the response.

No problem. I think that's what's getting lost here - from Idiot Boxer's very first post, I got that same message in what he was saying. Apparently you read something different into his responses.

He wanted to imply some political agenda on my part, I'm not sure why.

NEXT TIME DON"T USE ALL CAPS. HTH, GB.

 

[beavers]

Her son's death isn't meaningless just because she says so.

Her son found his calling meaningful. She's upset he's gone, but the fact that she refused to accept his choice is where I have a beef with the woman.

His death meant something. To him, to me, to this country. I'm saddened that she feels it meaningless.

Could you elaborate on what his death meant to you or to this country?

For me, the military, police, fire and other public servants are the most admirable of professions and each and every person's sacrifice, whether it be their life, their time away from families, or the risk of serious injury or harm they put themselves in on a daily basis is absolutely meaningful to me. Am I allowed to question the decision of the commander in chief and the politicians who choose how to fight this war? Sure. But this young man's decision to fight for our country should NEVER, F'N EVER be said to have been for nothing. He is to be honored and admired. SO FREAKING IRONIC THAT TODAY IS THE DAY AFTER MEMORIAL DAY AND I HAVE TO FREAKING EXPLAIN THIS.

Good Posting doesn't cover it here... Excellent Posting.

Not really. The day after Memorial Day doesn't have anything to do with explaining what you mean when you say someone's death meant something to you. And when the explanation is finally given that it is "absolutely meaningful" to him it seems more like empty chest-thumping, flag-waiving, patriotic-posturing posting than good posting to me.

And your didactic treatment of the meaning of a soldier's death sounds like the overly dismissive posturing of someone prone to criticizing the military effort. If the shoe fits . . .

Link to my treatment of the meaning of the soldiers death?Or my criticizing the military effort?

Nice try.

Link to my treatment of the meaning of the soldiers death?As you wish.

Or my criticizing the military effort?

I'm referring to your stance in your posts in this forum overall, not (just) this post.

Nice try.

Weak. You linked to this:For those of you claiming her sons death meant something to you, can you explain what it meant to you?

Care to try again to back up your BS statement? I'll wait.

Casey Sheehan's death means the same to me as the sacrifices of all the men and women in the military. I am profoundly grateful and humbled by the sacrifices they make for our country.As a husband with three kids, a nice home and a good job, I could not imagine making the sacrifices that these men and women make. They leave their familes behind to go half a world away and put their life on the line. I couldn't do it. But they do. And for that, I am in their debt.

Never mind WHY they are there, fighting that war. Ignore the politics, whether it's "right" or "wrong" - what side of the arguement you're on. The reality is that every day those men and women are out there doing their job and putting themselves in harms way, or supporting the people that do put themselves in harms way. That's honorable.

That's why her son's death means something to me.

Those soldiers who died doing their job will never be forgotten.However, to ignore whether it is right or wrong is ignoring if he (or she) died in vein. I personally, am angry with the decisions that caused this war and subsequent deaths. That is something I just can't ignore. And because so many have chose to ignore the "politics," the war continues and the death toll grows.

 

[Foosball God]

Those soldiers who died doing their job will never be forgotten.However, to ignore whether it is right or wrong is ignoring if he (or she) died in vein. I personally, am angry with the decisions that caused this war and subsequent deaths. That is something I just can't ignore. And because so many have chose to ignore the "politics," the war continues and the death toll grows.

We shouldn't ignore if they die in artery either.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

For those of you claiming her sons death meant something to you, can you explain what it meant to you?

Casey Sheehan's death means the same to me as the sacrifices of all the men and women in the military. I am profoundly grateful and humbled by the sacrifices they make for our country.As a husband with three kids, a nice home and a good job, I could not imagine making the sacrifices that these men and women make. They leave their familes behind to go half a world away and put their life on the line. I couldn't do it. But they do. And for that, I am in their debt.

Never mind WHY they are there, fighting that war. Ignore the politics, whether it's "right" or "wrong" - what side of the arguement you're on. The reality is that every day those men and women are out there doing their job and putting themselves in harms way, or supporting the people that do put themselves in harms way. That's honorable.

That's why her son's death means something to me.

Thanks Rhino. I appreciate the response.

No problem. I think that's what's getting lost here - from Idiot Boxer's very first post, I got that same message in what he was saying. Apparently you read something different into his responses.

He wanted to imply some political agenda on my part, I'm not sure why.

Seriously stop.

 

[Mr. Chumley]

For those of you claiming her sons death meant something to you, can you explain what it meant to you?

It meant he was willing to risk his life for this country -- the most noble act I can imagine.

For his country??? I am not sure what you mean by this.

Really? What else do you call it when you volunteer for military service?

Today, when you volunteer for military service, you serve the interests of select individuals, not the citizens of our country. Don't you remember the Iraq wars???

I miss the good ole days when the US citizens got to pick who we went to war with. Consider yourself lucky, Canada. Consider yourself lucky.

In our “democracy”, the citizens of our country elect leaders into office to represent their beliefs and make decisions on their behalf. Those elected representatives retain the freedom to exercise their own "judgment" as how best to do so. First of all, in 2000 GWB stole the election. We all know that. Then, he exploited lives lost on 9/11 by going to war in Afghanistan/Iraq to satisfy the interests of select individuals, not those who “voted” him into office. Simple civics lesson, my friend.

No we don't all know that. Wait was that a black helicopter?

 

[Idiot Boxer]

For those of you claiming her sons death meant something to you, can you explain what it meant to you?

Casey Sheehan's death means the same to me as the sacrifices of all the men and women in the military. I am profoundly grateful and humbled by the sacrifices they make for our country.As a husband with three kids, a nice home and a good job, I could not imagine making the sacrifices that these men and women make. They leave their familes behind to go half a world away and put their life on the line. I couldn't do it. But they do. And for that, I am in their debt.

Never mind WHY they are there, fighting that war. Ignore the politics, whether it's "right" or "wrong" - what side of the arguement you're on. The reality is that every day those men and women are out there doing their job and putting themselves in harms way, or supporting the people that do put themselves in harms way. That's honorable.

That's why her son's death means something to me.

Thanks Rhino. I appreciate the response.

No problem. I think that's what's getting lost here - from Idiot Boxer's very first post, I got that same message in what he was saying. Apparently you read something different into his responses.

He wanted to imply some political agenda on my part, I'm not sure why.

Seriously stop.

No... you stop.Show me my agenda please... tell me what my political beliefs are as you so clearly know them...

If stating that the military (along with police, firefighters and others in public service) is an honorable profession and that choice is to be honored is an agenda...then ok. I don't think that statement skews one political direction or another.

If believing that we ought to honor all of our fallen soldiers, regardless of whether they fell in WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Korea, the Gulf War or Iraq reeks of political agenda..then I'm blind to it...

I answered the question the exact same way as Rhino, with different words...but I have an agenda? Uhhhm...ok.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

For those of you claiming her sons death meant something to you, can you explain what it meant to you?

Casey Sheehan's death means the same to me as the sacrifices of all the men and women in the military. I am profoundly grateful and humbled by the sacrifices they make for our country.As a husband with three kids, a nice home and a good job, I could not imagine making the sacrifices that these men and women make. They leave their familes behind to go half a world away and put their life on the line. I couldn't do it. But they do. And for that, I am in their debt.

Never mind WHY they are there, fighting that war. Ignore the politics, whether it's "right" or "wrong" - what side of the arguement you're on. The reality is that every day those men and women are out there doing their job and putting themselves in harms way, or supporting the people that do put themselves in harms way. That's honorable.

That's why her son's death means something to me.

Thanks Rhino. I appreciate the response.

No problem. I think that's what's getting lost here - from Idiot Boxer's very first post, I got that same message in what he was saying. Apparently you read something different into his responses.

He wanted to imply some political agenda on my part, I'm not sure why.

Seriously stop.

No... you stop.Show me my agenda please... tell me what my political beliefs are as you so clearly know them...

I was asking a question. You said I wanted to imply some political agenda on your part.Link please.

 

[redman]

Her son's death isn't meaningless just because she says so.

Her son found his calling meaningful. She's upset he's gone, but the fact that she refused to accept his choice is where I have a beef with the woman.

His death meant something. To him, to me, to this country. I'm saddened that she feels it meaningless.

Could you elaborate on what his death meant to you or to this country?

For me, the military, police, fire and other public servants are the most admirable of professions and each and every person's sacrifice, whether it be their life, their time away from families, or the risk of serious injury or harm they put themselves in on a daily basis is absolutely meaningful to me. Am I allowed to question the decision of the commander in chief and the politicians who choose how to fight this war? Sure. But this young man's decision to fight for our country should NEVER, F'N EVER be said to have been for nothing. He is to be honored and admired. SO FREAKING IRONIC THAT TODAY IS THE DAY AFTER MEMORIAL DAY AND I HAVE TO FREAKING EXPLAIN THIS.

Good Posting doesn't cover it here... Excellent Posting.

Not really. The day after Memorial Day doesn't have anything to do with explaining what you mean when you say someone's death meant something to you. And when the explanation is finally given that it is "absolutely meaningful" to him it seems more like empty chest-thumping, flag-waiving, patriotic-posturing posting than good posting to me.

And your didactic treatment of the meaning of a soldier's death sounds like the overly dismissive posturing of someone prone to criticizing the military effort. If the shoe fits . . .

Link to my treatment of the meaning of the soldiers death?Or my criticizing the military effort?

Nice try.

Link to my treatment of the meaning of the soldiers death?As you wish.

Or my criticizing the military effort?

I'm referring to your stance in your posts in this forum overall, not (just) this post.

Nice try.

:X

Weak. You linked to this:For those of you claiming her sons death meant something to you, can you explain what it meant to you?

Care to try again to back up your BS statement? I'll wait.

That you even needed an explanation as to why the guy's death meant something is feeble. That's the point.

 

[redman]

For those of you claiming her sons death meant something to you, can you explain what it meant to you?

Casey Sheehan's death means the same to me as the sacrifices of all the men and women in the military. I am profoundly grateful and humbled by the sacrifices they make for our country.As a husband with three kids, a nice home and a good job, I could not imagine making the sacrifices that these men and women make. They leave their familes behind to go half a world away and put their life on the line. I couldn't do it. But they do. And for that, I am in their debt.

Never mind WHY they are there, fighting that war. Ignore the politics, whether it's "right" or "wrong" - what side of the arguement you're on. The reality is that every day those men and women are out there doing their job and putting themselves in harms way, or supporting the people that do put themselves in harms way. That's honorable.

That's why her son's death means something to me.

Thanks Rhino. I appreciate the response.

No problem. I think that's what's getting lost here - from Idiot Boxer's very first post, I got that same message in what he was saying. Apparently you read something different into his responses.

He wanted to imply some political agenda on my part, I'm not sure why.

Yup, and when I decided to imply some political agenda on his part, he got all defensive.

 

[Nipsey]

I can't imagine anything more disrespecting to a dead person than disrespecting the dead person's mother because she doesn't jive with your myopic views. A mother's bond with her child will always trump your limited knowledge of the world. Let the woman grieve. Your ability to figuratively wear the super-important, look at me I'm patriotic, American flag lapel pin will be still be there after she's gone.

If your mom outlives you, hope the lard asses in your town don't spit on her for picketing the Burger King that clogged your arteries.

 

[Soonerman]

Grieving is fine. I object to calling everyone who disagrees with you a liar/murderer, making anti-semitic statements, and hobnobbing with anti-American dictators. Whatever that is, it ain't grieving.