Like HERD alluded to above, the difference b/t the NFL and the NBA are guaranteed contracts. Unlike the NBA, if a player doesn't work out, his ### is cut, plain and simple. There may be a hit with the signing bonus, but nothing like the guaranteed deals in the NBA.I do see this affecting college football more than at the pro level, if there is going to be and affect at all.
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Clarett is ELIGIBLE for '04 Draft (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter GRIDIRON ASSASSIN
- Start date
Jason Wood
Zoo York
All this will do is HELP create a more balanced collegiate football landscape. If you're Tyrone Moss, and you have Gore and Payton behind you, yet you know you're probably talented enough to start as a freshmen for half of the D1 programs, you're more apt to go to one of those schools and start right away, whereas for years it's been standard MO for the best prospects to go to the best programs and redshirt to bulk up and learn the ropes.Cheers
Capella
Footballguy
I don't really think we'll be seeing too many 18 years olds go pro...but we WILL be seeing some sophs and freshman taking off early...Mike Williams at USC would be a candidate, for example. That's where it's going to hurt the NCAA.I think an 18-year old would be ill-advised to jump into the NFL. That's a pretty heartless business...a LOT of players that are very talented don't make it.
Greg R
Footballguy
I agree. I don't think there will be a lot of high schoolers trying to go to the NFL. If they are, they are probably not the brightest of people anyway.The place it'll happen is guys who put up great numbers in their first or second year in college, and feel they'll go in the top round or two. Whether that'll actually happen or not.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Probably, but if you are "big enough" in your mind and have an ego to think you can buck the system and go into the pros early, you might be more tempted to go to a place where you'll definitely start from day one versus having to redshirt and wait your turn for a year or two beyond that. Cheers
Capella
Footballguy
maybe, but I think it will be the exception rather than the rule.people need to relax on this...there are only so many slots in the NFL...you're not going to see a rush of hundreds of kids each year applying.this will sting the big programs a bit...but as an FSU honk, I'm only slightly concerned...we may lose a top recruit or stud sophomore every few years, but if your program is solid enough it won't be a big deal.
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Jason Wood
Zoo York
In a way you're right. People forget that aside from being a first rounder, these kids aren't set for life by being drafted. In the NBA, if you're a first rounder, even at the lower end, you are locking up a couple of million GUARANTEED. In the NFL, you might get a $40-$50K signing bonus in the mid 2nd or early 3rd and then what? If you don't perform, you're cut and have nothing to show for it.You go to Miami, you're a GOD, worshipped by unbelievably hot girls, and you KNOW these guys get comps all the time, even if it's just free food from students throwing parties and free drinks from students and fans who see them around socially. And the reality of boosters probably means these kids get a heck of a lot more than that.CheersI'm not sure playing for the NFL will score you a better deal than playing for Miami.
Kleck
Footballguy
GregR is a smart dude.A $20-40k education is nothing? What about 4 years of physical training under specialists, in multi-million dollar training facilities, and being taught by knowledgeable position coaches?What about the ability to showcase their talent on a national stage, and try to draw the notice of the professional leagues.If they don't like it, they can try to go into the pros straight out of high school, and then when they find out they aren't ready for the NFL, decide if they'd really have been so exploited.
RoarinSonoran
Footballguy
What would be funny is if the NFL says "Fine! Go ahead and enter the draft!", and then no one drafts him. "After the Janet Jackson incident, we're looking for players with a little more character -- sorry Mr. Clarett, but we wouldn't hire you to mow the grass."lol 
Jason Wood
Zoo York
I think it'd be tough to get an appeal filed, opposed, heard, and ruled on before the draft. But I don't know how expedited appeals work, so I can't say for sure.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Hey, I hear you Maurile, and I'm not going to argue the law with MT, Esquire
but I was just repeating what the pundits were saying about it back in the day, that the NFL told people privately that they knew they would lose if it went to trial, because of the precedents set in the NBA and tennis.Cheers
BTW, several antitrust scholars believe that having a draft at all (instead of free agency from the outset) violates antitrust laws. (I don't know whether Clarett's lawsuit challenged the legality of the draft itself, but it should have, at least for tactical reasons.)
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Alot of people thought Freeman McNeil's anti-trust victory over the NFL ten years ago would ruin the league, but I think unrestricted free agency has improved the entertainment value of the game. Its really hard to tell how this development, if it holds up, will affect the game or whether it will have any effect at all.
Damn straight they will - but, this will be resolved before the draft. My feeling is that the NFL didn't prepare seriously enough for the antitrust allegations, since the main point of the decision sounded like the NFL was not allowing Clarett to sell his services in the only forum where he was allowed to sell it. I am not sure of the legal foundation of that part of the decision - esp. since I have not read it in its entirety.I believe Clarett is taking advanatage of a poorly worded NFL eligibility rule. By next year, the NFL will have changed the wording of its rule to present the competitive reasons why 18, 19 and 20 year olds should not be in the NFL. 17 year old high school students can't be in the NFL b/c of contract formation laws.I am afraid it will take a groundbreaking ruling on appeal (similar to the previous "baseball is a monopoly" challenges) for the NFL's rule to be saved.My final thought on this is that it is a HORRIBLE decision for the quality of the NFL if 18-20 year olds are allowed in. 18-20 year olds NEED schooling in the way the game is played and the discipline that a developmental/unpaid program - be that college or a farm system - gives to kids that age. Pointing to the exceptions in the NHL and NBA of high school to pro is, IMO, irrelevant to the stresses - both physical and mental - that the NFL places on its players. Finally, I 100% agree with the folks who have pointed out that a lot of NFL athletes have developed their best position while in college - we have mediocre RBs playing outstanding safety, and we have exceptional high school QBs who are playing the RB and WR positions in the NFL with better success than they would have had. These players learn a multiplicity of skills and positions while able to experiment in college.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
I'm not sure what the criteria for an expedited appeal is (I'm imagining the specific performance involved likely meets it, but I don't have my FRCP on me). But I know there is precedent for appeals getting heard in a short period of time. For instance, the Pentagon Papers case went from the District Court to the Court of Appeals to the Supreme Court in a week and a half, so I don't think it's out of the question for the Court of Appeals to hear this in the next two months.
Premarital Sax
Footballguy
Haven't read all the threads yet but...The NFL rule is not stopping him from working. Last I saw there were multiple football leagues out there.Big difference here. Courts are extremely reluctant to keep someone from working and the laws that apply to Clarrett/the NFL are the same ones that apply to everyone else. As a result, no court is going to prevent someone from being able to work as long as they meet the restrictions imposed by other laws (i.e. child labor, etc.).The NFL's worst (?) nightmare has come true. I don't care how many appeals there are, I don't see any judge overturning this ruling. This isn't the only issue the NFL has under anti-trust, I'm sure.What's next? Someone challenging states rules that say you can't drink until you are 21?
Holy Schneikes
Footballguy
That's a different opinion than the one the judge passed down. I'm not saying your wrong, just that your opinion doesn't matter as much as his does.Haven't read all the threads yet but...The NFL rule is not stopping him from working. Last I saw there were multiple football leagues out there.Big difference here. Courts are extremely reluctant to keep someone from working and the laws that apply to Clarrett/the NFL are the same ones that apply to everyone else. As a result, no court is going to prevent someone from being able to work as long as they meet the restrictions imposed by other laws (i.e. child labor, etc.).The NFL's worst (?) nightmare has come true. I don't care how many appeals there are, I don't see any judge overturning this ruling. This isn't the only issue the NFL has under anti-trust, I'm sure.What's next? Someone challenging states rules that say you can't drink until you are 21?
Capella
Footballguy
I think another thing we need to consider (and not sure if it's been mentioned) is that NFL contracts are NOT guaranteed...only the signing bonuses are. This is different from the NBA where everything is guaranteed.
This will also further discourage some prospects from going to the pro level...if all they are guaranteed is a signing bonus, a college education would be something else to consider. If you're projected to go in the 4th rd, that signing bonus isn't too great.
This will also further discourage some prospects from going to the pro level...if all they are guaranteed is a signing bonus, a college education would be something else to consider. If you're projected to go in the 4th rd, that signing bonus isn't too great.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
I mentioned it. I noted that a high schooler who is going to be a 1st rounder in the NBA KNOWS he's got a few million coming to him even if he never steps on the floor (look at Eddie Griffin, kid has been arrested and in rehab but the Rockets still had to pay him and now so do the Nets). But in the NFL, beyond the first round and maybe half of the 2nd round, the guaranteed money is virtually nil; so there's very little incentive to come out early.Cheers
One thing not mentioned as far as I can tell - if Clarett is successful, he will invalidate a rule that is part of the leagues CBA.There is a darned good chance this will force an entire new CBA.After reading the opinion a bit more, it is a very SHAKY decision. This one could be overturned.
BlueOnion
Footballguy
Capella -I am not nit-picking or trying to make fun of you at all, but I hear others make this statement and it always makes me laugh, "Signing Bonus is guaranteed money."
Associating the word 'guarantee' with an event in the past is an reduntant. Its like Tom Brady coming out today and 'guaranteeing' a victory over the Panthers in Super Bowl 38.
It is more nit-picking than anything, I know but money which is a signing bonus 'changes hands' (from team to player) at the time the contract is signed, there is nothing guaranteed about the transaction, it already took place.
Am I alone on this? It would not be the first time I am on the wrong side of a fence.
The BlueOnion
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
Could the Clarett side then appeal the decision to overturn it?Seems like this could just end up going back and forth with nothing getting solved. :wacko:
I don't think this ruling will be the "ruin" of College football. Like most have said here there is just a certain maturation process an 18 yr old needs to go through to be ready for the NFL. College football isn't dominated by freshman like college basketball is either. Most frosh that start are rbs, wrs, and corners. My guess is if any HS seniors make the jump they will come from those positions. O-linemen in College almost always redshirt. A great point that has been brought up is the guaranteed vs. non guaranteed contracts. It just isn't worth it to jump early to the NFL if you aren't going to be a 1st rounder.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
I would say the fact that the signing bonus is usally paid out over time rather than up front, often makes up the lion's share of the contract and is pro-rated for salary cap purposes, indicates it is the functional equivalent of a partially guaranteed contract over a number of years.
Aren't you guaranteed a signing bonus if you're drafted, before anything changes hands?
BlueOnion
Footballguy
I don't think so (in reference to an iminent signing bonus just for being drafted).It is more of a curiousity for me (signing bonus being guaranateed money).The way I see it is:If I was a player and signed a contract for X millions of dollars with a 5 million singing bonus and somebody that, "Wow, nice contract and that 5 million signing bonus is guaranteed money too!"My response would be:"Well of course that 5 million signing bonus is guaranteed money, its was in my damn pocket as soon as I signed the contract."The BlueOnion
Yes - it went from a federal District Court, where Clarett won a summary judgment (judgment without a trial to find any facts), to the Second Circuit Court of Appeal on appeal by the NFL. If Clarett loses in the Circuit court of appeal, he can petition for certiorari by the U.S. Supreme Court, which is granted in under 5% of the petitions the Coyurt receives (though I am betting if it goes to the US Supreme Court, they wil hear the case).A petition to the US Supreme Court will NOT be heard this year.Also, if the NFL wins on appeal and the case is sent back to the Dist. Ct. for trial instead of an entry of summary judgment in favor of the NFL, he will not have a decision before the April Draft.I finished reading the entire opinion - mark me down: I expect this decision to be a temporary and phyricc victory for Clarett - he will NOT be in the April '04 draft.
Goat Herders
Footballguy
Since we're talking percentages:The problem is 99.9% of the guys that think they are part of the .1% aren't even close...HERD
jsargos
Footballguy
This is a bad decision for both the NFL and NCAA, no doubt. However, most legal experts have predicted this outcome so it is hardly unexpected. IMO the sensible solution, for Football and Basketball both, is for the NCAA to reverse it's rules that block even un-drafted players from returning to school and playing.I think there should be some limitations to keep a flood of players from declaring themselves eligible each year, perhaps forcing them to sit out a season. Also keep the rules in place to keep them from accepting money from or hiring an agent. I don't see what the NCAA has to lose, and they need to take decisive action to reverse the damage that has already been done to men's college basketball.
RoarinSonoran
Footballguy
Clarett shouldn't have failed kindergarten and 5th grade then........
EastBayFunk
Footballguy
The NFL will never turn into the NBA. The main reason these kids can jump to the NBA is because of their physical skills (i.e. being giant). Not many 18 year olds have the physical strength to play in the NFL and I don't anticipate any players leaving until after playing at least one college season. Can you really fault a guy like Maurice Clarett or Mike Williams for wanting to go pro? Neither was likely to boost his stock more than a round or two after his freshman season.This news shakes up the rookie draft picture quite a bit. Clarett is going to fight with a couple of other guys for the #3 RB spot on my board.
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rhawkins68
Footballguy
The NFL has been putting itself in a position to fall for awhile now basically this will just speed things up a bit.
EastBayFunk
Footballguy
Yea, but you have to understand the mindset of a guy like Clarett. He wants to play at the highest level.He graduated early from high school so that he could play spring ball with his teammates at Ohio State.I'm sure that after having a strong freshman season and winning a a championship he felt like he had already pretty much conquered the college game. It might be irrational, but that's how a lot of these guys think. A lot of them don't want to mess around playing with kids when they think they're ready for the big time.
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You don't understand the legal principles in the least to make this statement.Just an aside, based on my reading of this case, it was not "arbitrary" until it was removed as a "rule" from the CBA this past year (2003) and became a "policy" instituted by Paul Tagliabue. He won't even consider an application for an exception to apply early for for the draft unless the athlete has had three years of college seasons since high school. That is what is hanging the league up - that and the fact that this judge considered the NFL the only market for Clarett and deliberately ignored (without much explanation) the Canadian Football league, Arena, Arena II and NFL Europe.Clarett COULD join the Arena league for a year and earn SOME income, and he'd be eligible for the 2005 draft. The probelm is Clarett got his ### suspended and killed his OWN chances rto play any football. For some reason this judge has come onto his side on the issue, when the real issue is Clarett shot himself in the foot and is noe taking advantage of a strategic gaffe by the league.Capella - float this one by your proff: This judge passed the buck to the appellate court on the issue. All the smarmy little football analogie make that clear. The judge knew no fact dfinding would resolve the issue, and that the league would for sure challenge to the appellate court if she found for Clarrett. This judge passed the buck because there were clearly factual issues that needed to be dealt with.A case like this normally takes YEARS to get to the stage it is at right now, but the pressing time factor has caused an expedited process to occur here.
