Closers in non-save situations (1 Viewer)

[Statorama]

Seems like everytime a closer is put in a non-save situation, they get creamed.

Example: Dotel gets brought in during a laugher today and gives up 4 runs in an inning.

Has anyone seen any numbers that dispute/prove the "non-save" situation being a closer killer?

 

[Statorama]

Maybe it's just Hoffman this happens to. He just gave up a 4 spot in a non-save situation against the Braves.

Macha didn't do him any favors with Heyward, McCann, Glaus and Chipper due up.

 

[shadyridr]

Id love to see if the stats bear this out

 

[zoobird]

Id love to see if the stats bear this out

I'm curious too. I always hear people criticizing the managers for using them in these situations. But if the stats do back up the theory, I'd be critical of the closers for being too unprofessional to do their job when a save isn't on the line.

 

[the moops]

Maybe it's just Hoffman this happens to. He just gave up a 4 spot in a non-save situation against the Braves.

Macha didn't do him any favors with Heyward, McCann, Glaus and Chipper due up.

I found something from 2008 regarding Hoffman and non-save situations.Trevor Hoffman: Save vs Non-save, 1994-2007

Situation G IP ERA H/9 HR/9 BB/9 SO/9

Save 579 580.2 2.51 6.59 0.79 2.05 9.95

Non-save 236 272 2.81 7.25 0.69 3.11 9.53

Seems as though he does pitch a bit worse.

And there is this by Eric Seidman at BP. I cant find the actual study though.

Link

Last year I conducted a study on closers, pooling together all seasons with at least 15 saves from 1980-2007. The query offered 696 pitcher-years and 220 unique game-savers, but the analysis of their stats in and out of save situations was a solid first step at best. The results, which were deemed viable via a paired samples t-test that compares the means of two different variables, showed that closers did post somewhat improved rates in their save opportunities. The discrepancies in the rate stats measured (ERA, K/9, BB/9), though they were significant, differed only by plus or minus 0.25 units per nine innings.