Neofight
Footballguy
Clearly, seeing as you completely missed what was said.
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Colin Kaepernick is Overrated in FF (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter tdmills
- Start date
Faust
MVP
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Maybe this means he has trouble with situations where LBs and sedondary drop/stay in coverage.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
cross posted from 49ers thread...
from ESPN...
kaepernick with vernon davis in lineup (2013)...
100.2 QB rating, 9 passing TDs, 61.1% completion percentage and 3/162 INT/pass attempts ratio
without davis (2013)...
35.1 QB rating, 0 passing TDs, 43.1% completion percentage and 3/58 INT/pass attempts ratio
can't quite put my finger on it, but I think he doesn't play as well without davis...
from ESPN...
kaepernick with vernon davis in lineup (2013)...
100.2 QB rating, 9 passing TDs, 61.1% completion percentage and 3/162 INT/pass attempts ratio
without davis (2013)...
35.1 QB rating, 0 passing TDs, 43.1% completion percentage and 3/58 INT/pass attempts ratio
can't quite put my finger on it, but I think he doesn't play as well without davis...
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OU#1
Footballguy
I don't care if he plays a pop Warner team. I expect him to put up more turds going forward. Can't believe I bought into this guy. No legs, no FF relavance. This will be the last year I draft a non-pocket passing QB.
Signed,
A salty owner who despite this turd is still a lock for the FF playoffs
Signed,
A salty owner who despite this turd is still a lock for the FF playoffs
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
He's thrown for 200 yards in only two of 10 games this season. Unreal.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
a recent exchange summation from the more general 49ers thread, cross-posted here...
kaepernick's struggles and development (or lack thereof) sidebar
the chain of Q & A at times quoted in full, and paraphrased in other instances (sans quotes)...
1) post 701 - "But the "49ers have no WR's" argument is starting to get thin. Brees hit 11 different receivers yesterday. You can't tell me that all 11 are better than what the 49ers put on the field yesterday."
good observation and insight, and fair, reasonable suggestion on that basis... if brees can involve his weapons 11 deep, why is kaepernick having so much trouble involving the #2 receiving target in boldin?
2) 703 - "Outside of TE Davis (and some might even argue Graham vs. Davis here), yes NO has better receivers all across the board."
nothing in the above post stated or implied anything to the contrary. it didn't say NO doesn't have better receivers across the board... being stronger across the board may enable some NO receivers to become more open due to the attention the defense must pay to other weapons, an advantage NO does have over SF. but again, that wasn't the thrust of the above statement.
3) 704 - "There is only one WR in the NFL that has both a higher EPA & WPA than Boldin through week 11. He has had more of an impact than any Saints WR this season; the problem is his QB just has not played well enough to find him with any consistency."
if graham and davis are NO and SF's top receiving options, respectively, even if colston is better than boldin... is every receiving weapon down to the bottom of the NO bench better than boldin? if not, why is kaepernick struggling so much to get the ball in the hands of anybody not named vernon davis? the above point is imo a skeleton key to understanding this entire exchange... because if boldin is a viable receiving weapon ALONG WITH davis, kaepernick may have an excuse for not getting the ball in the hands of anybody other than davis AND boldin... but he doesn't have a good excuse for failing to get the ball to boldin, and anybody BUT davis.
4) 705 - this seems to be the point where the wheels start to hydroplane and begin to lose contact with the road, insofar as maintaining a coherent theme, within this particular strand of the thread... as near as i can make of this, two points are made... people who use stats and numbers spend more time on that than watching games? not sure i can get on board with that... also, the 49er watching cognoscenti are factoring in crabtree's absence into kaepernick's struggles, missing from stats and numbers regarding boldin... but this still doesn't address the initial question... unless crabtree's absence is supposed to be some kind of explanation for kaepernick being unable to extend past one on his progression reads?
5) 706 - "None of this refutes the fact that Anquan Boldin is still a very capable receiver and Kaepernick is struggling mightily in his progressions (and overall progress)." sums it up about as well as possible.
6) 707 - road contact lost, thematic coherence slide worsens... because SF isn't stacked with receiving weapons beyond vernon davis and boldin... the boldin geek graph is being used wrong... and this somehow, inexplicably segues back into point two (which didn't have anything to do with the initial point before, why would it now?).
7) 709 - vehicle has spun out of control and left the road... now, because boldin ALONE is not as good as the entire NO WR corp, this in some way explains why kaepernick locks onto vernon davis to the point of failing to better involve (and at times simply ignoring and just plain excluding) boldin.
since the initial point that was contested was never even addressed (let alone coherently explained), the context of the larger thread strand will have to suffice for others to form their own conclusions about whether kaepernick is showing development and improvement (with the receiving weapons such as they are), or not.
kaepernick's struggles and development (or lack thereof) sidebar
the chain of Q & A at times quoted in full, and paraphrased in other instances (sans quotes)...
1) post 701 - "But the "49ers have no WR's" argument is starting to get thin. Brees hit 11 different receivers yesterday. You can't tell me that all 11 are better than what the 49ers put on the field yesterday."
good observation and insight, and fair, reasonable suggestion on that basis... if brees can involve his weapons 11 deep, why is kaepernick having so much trouble involving the #2 receiving target in boldin?
2) 703 - "Outside of TE Davis (and some might even argue Graham vs. Davis here), yes NO has better receivers all across the board."
nothing in the above post stated or implied anything to the contrary. it didn't say NO doesn't have better receivers across the board... being stronger across the board may enable some NO receivers to become more open due to the attention the defense must pay to other weapons, an advantage NO does have over SF. but again, that wasn't the thrust of the above statement.
3) 704 - "There is only one WR in the NFL that has both a higher EPA & WPA than Boldin through week 11. He has had more of an impact than any Saints WR this season; the problem is his QB just has not played well enough to find him with any consistency."
if graham and davis are NO and SF's top receiving options, respectively, even if colston is better than boldin... is every receiving weapon down to the bottom of the NO bench better than boldin? if not, why is kaepernick struggling so much to get the ball in the hands of anybody not named vernon davis? the above point is imo a skeleton key to understanding this entire exchange... because if boldin is a viable receiving weapon ALONG WITH davis, kaepernick may have an excuse for not getting the ball in the hands of anybody other than davis AND boldin... but he doesn't have a good excuse for failing to get the ball to boldin, and anybody BUT davis.
4) 705 - this seems to be the point where the wheels start to hydroplane and begin to lose contact with the road, insofar as maintaining a coherent theme, within this particular strand of the thread... as near as i can make of this, two points are made... people who use stats and numbers spend more time on that than watching games? not sure i can get on board with that... also, the 49er watching cognoscenti are factoring in crabtree's absence into kaepernick's struggles, missing from stats and numbers regarding boldin... but this still doesn't address the initial question... unless crabtree's absence is supposed to be some kind of explanation for kaepernick being unable to extend past one on his progression reads?
5) 706 - "None of this refutes the fact that Anquan Boldin is still a very capable receiver and Kaepernick is struggling mightily in his progressions (and overall progress)." sums it up about as well as possible.
6) 707 - road contact lost, thematic coherence slide worsens... because SF isn't stacked with receiving weapons beyond vernon davis and boldin... the boldin geek graph is being used wrong... and this somehow, inexplicably segues back into point two (which didn't have anything to do with the initial point before, why would it now?).
7) 709 - vehicle has spun out of control and left the road... now, because boldin ALONE is not as good as the entire NO WR corp, this in some way explains why kaepernick locks onto vernon davis to the point of failing to better involve (and at times simply ignoring and just plain excluding) boldin.
since the initial point that was contested was never even addressed (let alone coherently explained), the context of the larger thread strand will have to suffice for others to form their own conclusions about whether kaepernick is showing development and improvement (with the receiving weapons such as they are), or not.
drummer
Footballguy
He posted that in the SF season thread too.
This is how the Shark Pool is moderated now.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
seemed like a kaepernick post in the 49ers thread was even more relevant in the kaepernick thread?
some people that are interested in kaepernick may not visit the 49ers thread regularly (where the discussion happened to originate)...
it was somewhat complicated in that the subject seemed to change in a few places, and that would have been hard to capture without noting both sides of the conversation.
before I thought kaepernick wasn't throwing enough to boldin, but it seems he doesn't throw enough to davis, as well. since boldin's season high 13 reception game in the opener against GB, davis and boldin are COMBINING for approx. eight receptions per game... i get that brees has better weapons (though davis no slouch, and boldin looked pretty good in the super bowl and the aforementioned opener), but if kaepernick's passing options are focused on davis and boldin, and they are better than brees end of the bench options, than it would seem they could be used to better effect. he has to play with the cards he is dealt with. there are times davis and/or boldin are open, but kaepernick is inaccurate, or can't even pull the trigger.
i have come around to thinking in some other threads that citing lack of receiving weapons, injuries, drops, etc. could be unwarranted excuse making that masks actual problems... if building a case in support of a given QB in some way requires "everything being perfect", to use words I believe you have in a different but related context, than that doesn't speak highly of that QB? if we are going to do that in some cases, it seems important to extend and apply that discipline and rigor of thought consistently (and not disallow excuses with other QBs, but indulge them with kaepernick).
some people that are interested in kaepernick may not visit the 49ers thread regularly (where the discussion happened to originate)...
it was somewhat complicated in that the subject seemed to change in a few places, and that would have been hard to capture without noting both sides of the conversation.
before I thought kaepernick wasn't throwing enough to boldin, but it seems he doesn't throw enough to davis, as well. since boldin's season high 13 reception game in the opener against GB, davis and boldin are COMBINING for approx. eight receptions per game... i get that brees has better weapons (though davis no slouch, and boldin looked pretty good in the super bowl and the aforementioned opener), but if kaepernick's passing options are focused on davis and boldin, and they are better than brees end of the bench options, than it would seem they could be used to better effect. he has to play with the cards he is dealt with. there are times davis and/or boldin are open, but kaepernick is inaccurate, or can't even pull the trigger.
i have come around to thinking in some other threads that citing lack of receiving weapons, injuries, drops, etc. could be unwarranted excuse making that masks actual problems... if building a case in support of a given QB in some way requires "everything being perfect", to use words I believe you have in a different but related context, than that doesn't speak highly of that QB? if we are going to do that in some cases, it seems important to extend and apply that discipline and rigor of thought consistently (and not disallow excuses with other QBs, but indulge them with kaepernick).
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G
General Tso
Guest
2 passing TD's and a rushing TD this week. Mark my words - he's gonna go off. This guy loves the prime time spotlight and he will get his numbers. And the Skins defense sux.
CapnJB
Footballguy
Primetime games this year:
@SEA 13/28 127 passing yards 0 TDs 3 INTs 87 rushing yards
@ STL 15/23 167 passing yards 2 TDs 11 rushing yards
vs HOU 6/15 113 passing yards 1 TD 14 rushing yards
These numbers?
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
CapnJB said:
Horses Mouth
Footballguy
i dropped him for Tolzein if that's any indication of who I would rather start this week to cover my bye.
battlebaby
Footballguy
I'm going with Keenum over Kaep this week. Kaep just isn't putting up passing yardage and, if you're lucky, will give you around 50 rushing yards. You're basically playing him with the hope that he'll run a TD at the goal line or get a chance with broken coverage to bust a long TD pass to Davis. Playing any guy that's so dependent on situational TDs is a risk that's just not worth taking...Kaep's become the QB equivalent of playing Tolbert as your RB.
dangerman77
Footballguy
I was OFFERED Luck and SJax for Kraep and DWill in a keep 2 league. I almost broke my mouse clicking 'accept trade'.
I have never gone early for a QB, but I definitely got caught up in all the hype and drafted this turd waaaaaay higher than I care to admit.
I have never gone early for a QB, but I definitely got caught up in all the hype and drafted this turd waaaaaay higher than I care to admit.
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fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
SJax sucks... Assuming he can even make it through the season, which is a stretch, he is a low end #2 (if that) decent flex...
Obviously I like Luck more than Kaep, but he is going to pick it up... If Gore catches a pass that hits him n the hands, Kaep would've had 3 TDs and 200 in the Superdome... Yea, he has been bad, but a QB still needs weapons. Crabtree helps huge when he comes back too.
Horses Mouth
Footballguy
I would imagine that you watched week one and thought the other guy may have gotten a good deal, eh?Traded this guy in a package for Brees in the off-season.
Might buy-low in anticipation of better #'s with Crabby. I love acquiring players for cheap that you got a Kings Ransom for.
G
General Tso
Guest
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
G
General Tso
Guest
I warned you guys. Big game in store for him. Hope you played him.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
His "huge game" which is way overdue will only happen if the Skins can score. Why bother continuing to pass if they can't? :(
G
General Tso
Guest
Because they want to get him on track, and because the Skins pass D is one of the worst I've ever seen. The Skins cornerback can't even stay within 5 yards of a Tight End.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Hope you're right, but Roman doesn't strike me as the type to take unnecessary risks.
drummer
Footballguy
This is predicated on Harbaugh not going conservative with a comfortable lead on the road.
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thehornet
Footballguy
warned us? dude if he can't do it against Washington he shouldn't even be starting. but thanks for the amazing advice. really going out on a limb.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
I'm not even sure why the reminder came so early in the game. His stats so far are barely acceptable for a QB2.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
you can see flashes of the physical ability...
he made a few big time throws in the TD drive... but than he makes boneheaded near INTs...
he is just maddeningly inconsistent still... since he clearly has the physical tools when "on", it makes you wonder if he needs to make greater strides in his understanding of the game...
i realize he misses crabtree, but it is puzzling that he is able to make use of davis and boldin fine at times, but not others...
he made a few big time throws in the TD drive... but than he makes boneheaded near INTs...
he is just maddeningly inconsistent still... since he clearly has the physical tools when "on", it makes you wonder if he needs to make greater strides in his understanding of the game...
i realize he misses crabtree, but it is puzzling that he is able to make use of davis and boldin fine at times, but not others...
BigBlue_RI
Footballguy
I'm cutting this punk of he costs me a W this week. With Big Ben and Foles on my roster, someone's head needs to roll.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
LOL
G
General Tso
Guest
Go to bed troll. The only thing noteworthy you said in this thread is that he's going to struggle. And when he doesn't you have the balls to criticize someone who predicted a good game? Keep wearing your floaties in the pool there bro.
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drummer
Footballguy
Every TD Kaep throws makes hornet clutch his Alex Smith doll tighter. That last one just ripped it's stuffing out.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
The screen pass just now on 3rd down was a good example. The defense had it covered perfectly, but Kaep kept going with his primary option. Didn't adjust at all. Seems like a common problem for him.....difficulty progressing through his reads.
