Colin Kaepernick Thread and related anthem kneeling issues/news (1 Viewer)

[sho nuff]

I said multiple times none of that matters.  What matters is her expressing dismay towards the country and expressing that she does not want to show any respect.  To you her actions are heroic, to me she is a spoiled brat who has expressed zero appreciation for this country.  If someone on the right did some protest because of their pet issue, they would be cast as some intolerant whiner. I don't like her attitude or keap's attitude towards this country.   

You aren't the only one in this thread Jon.  And what you were quoting wasn't referencing you...so nobody mischaracterized you.

 

[rockaction]

I think that I did have proof.

However since some may not see the failure to answer a question as proof I will delete that post and apologize to rockaction for that characterization.

I see no need to delete the post nor apologize. I certainly won't report you. I think our records speak for themselves. I'm not trying to be a jerk when I say I really don't care about the characterization; I just don't. I'm really untroubled by it and quite comfortable with my own life and own observation.

Now that you've begun to be human and not witch hunt, I'll answer your question, and answer it simply, directly, and honestly. I do not believe gay people are mentally ill simply for the fact that they are gay. There are mentally ill gay people, but they are not ill because of or relating to the cause of their sexual preference. 

On another note, I am not anti-gay, either, at least in my own estimation.

 

[squistion]

I see no need to delete the post nor apologize. I certainly won't report you. I think our records speak for themselves. I'm not trying to be a jerk when I say I really don't care about the characterization; I just don't. I'm really untroubled by it and quite comfortable with my own life and own observation.

Now that you've begun to be human and not witch hunt, I'll answer your question, and answer it simply, directly, and honestly. I do not believe gay people are mentally ill simply for the fact that they are gay. There are mentally ill gay people, but they are not ill because of or relating to the cause of their sexual preference. 

On another note, I am not anti-gay, either, at least in my own estimation.

Thank you for the clarification of your position.

 

[jon_mx]

You aren't the only one in this thread Jon.  And what you were quoting wasn't referencing you...so nobody mischaracterized you.

People take the worst arguments, and make generalized responses.  Sure the points are not directed at anyone specifically, they are directed at everyone.  It is a cheap tactic which is often used around here.  

 

[Sheriff Bart]

Not yet.  I intend to be like Tony Randall or James Doohan, fathering kids into my dotage. 

If you were a @General Malaisealias all of these years I would have been quite embarrassed. 

 

[squistion]

300 pages! 

And I wasn't the one who bumped this thread that had been dormant since May 8.

 

[Sheriff Bart]

I just want to be on record that I love lesbianism. Particularly when my SO is overserved and likes the touch of another female who is soft like her. 

 

[Godsbrother]

300 pages! 

And I wasn't the one who bumped this thread that had been dormant since May 8.

It is all the same argument over again.  I should have resisted the urge to add to the noise.  I may check back in just for sh*** and giggles but I don't think I'll be posting in this thread again. 

Carry on...

 

[squistion]

It is all the same argument over again.  I should have resisted the urge to add to the noise.  I may check back in just for sh*** and giggles but I don't think I'll be posting in this thread again. 

Carry on...

Not really, it use to be that kneeling during the anthem was considered disrespectful and unpatriotic. That has morphed into, not only must you stand but have your hand over heart and sing the anthem while smiling.

This concept of forcing people to make a conspicuous show of patriotism at public events is straight out of the playbook of just about every totalitarian regime (see North Korea for a current example).

 

[Summer Wheat]

Now that it looks like CK is never going to play football again I wonder what he will do..movies like The Rock maybe?  Seems like he would be good in an action type flick.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

If you were a @General Malaisealias all of these years I would have been quite embarrassed. 

I think it more likely I am a figment of his imagination, yours too.

 

[Hawkeye21]

Nowhere have I said even remotely close to what you're saying. I don't like lesbian politics. That they have a distinct identity/political outlook is neither new nor controversial. 

This is the part where I feel you come off poorly.  What is lesbian politics?  Do all lesbians align the same politically?  I have to imagine there are some conservative lesbians.

 

[Henry Ford]

If you're saying "I don't like lesbians because most of them are liberal!" maybe you should just say you don't like liberals.

 

[squistion]

https://time.com/5613766/trump-says-inappropriate-megan-rapinoe-national-anthem-protest/

Trump Says It's Inappropriate for U.S. Soccer Star Megan Rapinoe to Protest During the National Anthem

President Donald Trump thinks it’s inappropriate for Megan Rapinoe, the U.S. women’s soccer team co-captain, to protest during the national anthem.

CNN Breaking News‏Verified account @cnnbrk 17m

Megan Rapinoe scores two goals, and the US beats host France 2-1 in the Women's World Cup. It will face England in the semifinals.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/28/football/usa-france-womens-world-cup-quarterfinals-spt-intl/index.html

 

[Summer Wheat]

CNN Breaking News‏Verified account @cnnbrk 17m

Megan Rapinoe scores two goals, and the US beats host France 2-1 in the Women's World Cup. It will face England in the semifinals.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/28/football/usa-france-womens-world-cup-quarterfinals-spt-intl/index.html

I watched it USA..USA..USA..USA!!

 

[Sheriff Bart]

If you're saying "I don't like lesbians because most of them are liberal!" maybe you should just say you don't like liberals.

We have a saying where I come from when it comes to extremely liberal women.  "Let's date them".

 

[whoknew]

CNN Breaking News‏Verified account @cnnbrk 17m

Megan Rapinoe scores two goals, and the US beats host France 2-1 in the Women's World Cup. It will face England in the semifinals.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/28/football/usa-france-womens-world-cup-quarterfinals-spt-intl/index.html

Such a great picture.

 

[rockaction]

Really not a huge fan of the 2019 Women's World Cup team and haven't been. Very political squad.

 

[timschochet]

Really not a huge fan of the 2019 Women's World Cup team and haven't been. Very political squad.

Yes you’ve made this clear. And lesbians  seem to bother you. 

 

[rockaction]

Yes you’ve made this clear. And lesbians  seem to bother you. 

The radical feminism wing of sociopolitical thinking that naturally dovetails with lesbianism? Yes, it does. Their politics, aggregately, are anathema to me.

 

[rockaction]

And people can keep insisting that as a group, lesbians don't think or vote a certain way -- and that's nice. It makes for nice virtue signaling. Keep yelling at walls. I hear that works.

 

[sho nuff]

So what if they are political?

 

[rockaction]

So what if they are political?

Because they vote for things that make the United States act in a way I don't want us to act. Thus, I dislike their politics. This is only hard to understand if you're in first-fifth grade. Anyone in sixth grade should be able to grasp majority voting and representation and civics. Not hard. 

 

[rockaction]

A basic syllogism: 

Lesbian politics are liberal politics.

I do not like liberal politics 

Ergo, I do not like lesbian politics

 

[sho nuff]

Because they vote for things that make the United States act in a way I don't want us to act. Thus, I dislike their politics. This is only hard to understand if you're in first-fifth grade. Anyone in sixth grade should be able to grasp majority voting and representation and civics. Not hard. 

Lots of people vote on ways I don’t like. And no need for the backhanded insult guy.

 

[rockaction]

Lots of people vote on ways I don’t like. And no need for the backhanded insult guy.

And you likely dislike their politics.

As for the insult, people are sure having an awful lot of trouble with a very basic concept. 

 

[rockaction]

I'd even go so far as to wish that lesbians stayed home from the voting booth for the most part. Please don't vote. Things, in my opinion, would be better.

But some people will confuse this with disliking lesbians. 

Which isn't too far off if you accept a radically feminist caveat that the personal is political and the political equals the personal (in symbolic logic, is equals the equal sign). I think with some lesbians, they believe this dictum. I still do not like their politics. Ergo, by this dictum, I may not like lesbians personally.

But that's if you accept the radical feminist caveat previously mentioned. Another syllogism:

The personal is political.

A hates Bs politics.

Ergo, A hates B personally.

 

[Hawkeye21]

There are LGBT conservative groups as well.  Most LGBT people are liberal but not all.

 

[rockaction]

There are LGBT conservative groups as well.  Most LGBT people are liberal but not all.

This is very true. I've said "in general" as many times as I possibly can in this thread. I did not want to mess up the syllogisms with nuance that might detract from their weight, but rest assured, I am aware of gay/lesbian conservatives.

 

[whoknew]

I'd even go so far as to wish that lesbians stayed home from the voting booth for the most part. Please don't vote. Things, in my opinion, would be better.

But some people will confuse this with disliking lesbians. 

Which isn't too far off if you accept a radically feminist caveat that the personal is political and the political equals the personal (in symbolic logic, is equals the equal sign). I think with some lesbians, they believe this dictum. I still do not like their politics. Ergo, by this dictum, I may not like lesbians personally.

But that's if you accept the radical feminist caveat previously mentioned. Another syllogism:

The personal is political.

A hates Bs politics.

Ergo, A hates B personally.

It depends on what you don't like about their politics. If, through your politics, you want to deny them civil liberties - I reckon they'd take that pretty personally.

 

[rockaction]

It depends on what you don't like about their politics. If you want to deny them civil liberties - I reckon they'd take that pretty personally.

"Civil liberties" can run a gamut of things people disagree upon. Whether we agree depends on what is a civil liberty and who is doing the defining. It's such an amorphous phrase. 

It's as amorphous as the political term "access" regarding policy measures. Who accesses, what do they access, what is real access, etc. My favorite new amorphous phrase is "access to services." 

Who could possibly deny somebody access to a service, right? Never mind that it usually means public expenditure for a government program or something of the like. 

So no, I'm not willing to have everything on the general lesbianic social agenda fall under the rubric of "civil liberties," especially if it is a more radical construct than mine.

 

[whoknew]

"Civil liberties" can run a gamut of things people disagree upon. Whether we agree depends on what is a civil liberty and who is doing the defining. It's such an amorphous phrase. 

It's as amorphous as the political term "access" regarding policy measures. Who accesses, what do they access, what is real access, etc. My favorite new amorphous phrase is "access to services." 

Who could possibly deny somebody access to a service, right? Never mind that it usually means public expenditure for a government program or something of the like. 

So no, I'm not willing to have everything on the general lesbianic social agenda fall under the rubric of "civil liberties," especially if it is a more radical construct than mine.

Right. 

 

[timschochet]

Don’t you at least like the Indigo Girls, rock? One of my very favorite bands of the last few decades. Sure they’re a little derivative but so what? Great folky melodies, soaring harmonies, nice guitar work, poetic lyrics. They’re awesome. 

 

[timschochet]

And how about Ellen? She’s so nice. How can anyone dislike Ellen? 

 

[rockaction]

Exactly

Depends what the "civil liberty" is. Is the "civil liberty" "access" to "health care?" If so, no, then I do not support a "civil liberty." Again, my broader point is not about health care here; it's about how words are defined.

 

[rockaction]

And how about Ellen? She’s so nice. How can anyone dislike Ellen? 

In response to your two previous questions, I very much enjoy the very liberal, both socially and politically, Ani DiFranco. That's some good folk/punk there.

I do not like Sarah McLaclan and Better Than Chocolate. That's for softies.

One caveat: My favorite Ani DiFranco album is about her love affair with a man. Most fans felt spurned by such sacrilege, but Ani went through with it.

 

[rockaction]

Weirdly, I'm debating the dreary politics of lesbianism and the Women's World Cup while I should be beach and poolside in Malaga, Spain. Ah, "Iberia." It looks a lot like the word "lesbian," and "liberal," no?

 

[rockaction]

Weird question. Lesbian adoption. Given the long waiting times for couples' adoption, should civil liberties include equal footing for adoption agencies regarding gay or lesbian status? It used to be the question was adoption at all; now it would seem even the latter is settled. So what of "civil liberties," when they're always shifting, always moving towards inclusion of programs to people? Who is really at the vanguard of "civil liberties," or is it simply a teleological dialectic of sorts where we just take the most radical answer and extend it out further?

 

[Summer Wheat]

And how about Ellen? She’s so nice. How can anyone dislike Ellen? 

Love Ellen, dislike Rosie.

 

[timschochet]

Weird question. Lesbian adoption. Given the long waiting times for couples' adoption, should civil liberties include equal footing for adoption agencies regarding gay or lesbian status? It used to be the question was adoption at all; now it would seem even the latter is settled. So what of "civil liberties," when they're always shifting, always moving towards inclusion of programs to people? Who is really at the vanguard of "civil liberties," or is it simply a teleological dialectic of sorts where we just take the most radical answer and extend it out further?

Of course there should be equal footing. They don’t deserve special treatment, but absolutely equal to everyone else. Not even sure why this should be a question. 

 

[rockaction]

Of course there should be equal footing. They don’t deserve special treatment, but absolutely equal to everyone else. Not even sure why this should be a question. 

This was always a question. A huge one until ten years ago, thus proving my point about the broader problem with the rubric of "civil liberties," which is always changing. 

It used to be lesbians couldn't even adopt, and that was seen as fair, just, and good. Better for the children. Now we put them on the same footing as straight couples even when the need is there.

So my question then remains: Is the political personal? Can I disagree with lesbian politics and not hate them personally? I say I can. But most people have personalized the political so much that we've come to view that as impossible.

I personally think lesbian couples should wait in line for adoption, all things constant. Does this mean I hate lesbians? By some accounts, yes, if this is a "civil liberties" or "politically personal" issue.

Let's put the apple cart next to the horse and call a spade a spade: There's a litmus test for whether one hates lesbians or not, and it's a political one to some people like who knew or those that indeed take this personally.

 

[Ranethe]

There are LGBT conservative groups as well.  Most LGBT people are liberal but not all.

My sister is a poor lesbian hardcore Fox News loving Trumpie. She also had at least one abortion when she was younger. On the surface it’s never made sense to me.

Over the years I’ve come to understand her (and my mother) somewhat. My family was extremely poor and extremely uneducated (both Mom and Dad were high school dropouts who later got their GED’s, Dad had to get a 4 year degree to teach auto mechanics at a vocational school, I wrote his college papers for him when I was in 9th grade and one of his instructors knew he hadn’t written them).

It was essentially a status thing for both: they had nothing to elevate themselves. In terms of social status we/they were at the bottom of the totem pole...unless they could place someone else lower (minorities). Their embrace of right wing politics and white dominance meant they were better (in their minds) than at least someone. 

 

[Hawkeye21]

My sister is a poor lesbian hardcore Fox News loving Trumpie. She also had at least one abortion when she was younger. On the surface it’s never made sense to me.

Over the years I’ve come to understand her (and my mother) somewhat. My family was extremely poor and extremely uneducated (both Mom and Dad were high school dropouts who later got their GED’s, Dad had to get a 4 year degree to teach auto mechanics at a vocational school, I wrote his college papers for him when I was in 9th grade and one of his instructors knew he hadn’t written them).

It was essentially a status thing for both: they had nothing to elevate themselves. In terms of social status we/they were at the bottom of the totem pole...unless they could place someone else lower (minorities). Their embrace of right wing politics and white dominance meant they were better (in their minds) than at least someone. 

I have a feeling a large number of Trump supporters fit this description.  I know some that fit that description in my area and they are the most vocal Trump supporters.

 

[rockaction]

Donald Trump happened in 1992, too, just nobody noticed and his name was H. Ross Perot.

 

[whoknew]

Depends what the "civil liberty" is. Is the "civil liberty" "access" to "health care?" If so, no, then I do not support a "civil liberty." Again, my broader point is not about health care here; it's about how words are defined.

That may be your broader point but in arguing that point, you've proved my point. So thank you.

 

[Hawkeye21]

Donald Trump happened in 1992, too, just nobody noticed and his name was H. Ross Perot.

Were they that similar morally?  I was just a kid when Perot ran for President so I don't know other than he was wealthy.

 

[rockaction]

That may be your broader point but in arguing that point, you've proved my point. So thank you.

I haven't proved any point other than that there are likely policy decisions that fall under the rubric of the phrase that you define as "civil liberties" that I would not.

I am simply saying that you've personalized my political disagreement with the politicized lesbianic agenda, thereby claiming it stems from personal disagreement. 

But I have no problem with lesbians, so whither the disconnect?

Less than twenty years ago, before the court system intervened, both adoption and marriage were off the table for gay and lesbian couples. Were all the legislators hateful towards gay and lesbians? Of course not. They didn't see these as rights is all.

 

[rockaction]

We they that similar morally?  I was just a kid when Perot ran for President so I don't know other than he was wealthy.

Not at all but they appealed to the same people with populism mixed with economic protectionism and social conservatism mixed with the imprimatur of being successful businessmen who could "get things done." Donald Trump was a member and leader of Perot's newly-formed Reform Party. Perot appealed to those voters in PA, MI, WI, and OH that Trump appealed to but those that conservatives had lost due to their adherence to free markets.

 

[rockaction]

"That giant sucking sound" Perot talked about regarding NAFTA and the other free trade agreements was effective with Republican-leaning voters in those states, and is something Trump and P. Buchanan saw first-hand and ran with.

 

[irish eyes]

I have a feeling a large number of Trump supporters fit this description.  I know some that fit that description in my area and they are the most vocal Trump supporters.

You need to stop posting and get off these boards. To call a very large group of people poor, uneducated, etc is beyond ridiculous.  Sounds like your the uneducated one & why people can't stand liberals.