College Admissions Questions (3 Viewers)

[NewlyRetired]

Daughter got the official paper work from Wheaton and it was all good news.

We knew she was going to be accepted but we found out she picked up the top merit scholarship the school offers plus another grant the school gives.

Here is every thing she got:

$25k per year (school merit) + $5k per year (school grant) + $7620 per year (federal and state grants) = $37,620 per year in grants/scholarships.

Also the scholarship includes two $3000 stipends that can be used to fund summer internships or projects between the school years.  

She also picked up some federal loans as well but I am ignoring those since they need to be paid back.

She was happy but I don't think she understands how few kids they give this out to but no matter.  As with all these type of scholarships she is expected to keep a certain grade level to maintain it but that is not a worry.

 

[Fear The Turtle]

Daughter got the official paper work from Wheaton and it was all good news.

We knew she was going to be accepted but we found out she picked up the top merit scholarship the school offers plus another grant the school gives.

Here is every thing she got:

$25k per year (school merit) + $5k per year (school grant) + $7620 per year (federal and state grants) = $37,620 per year in grants/scholarships.

Also the scholarship includes two $3000 stipends that can be used to fund summer internships or projects between the school years.  

She also picked up some federal loans as well but I am ignoring those since they need to be paid back.

She was happy but I don't think she understands how few kids they give this out to but no matter.  As with all these type of scholarships she is expected to keep a certain grade level to maintain it but that is not a worry.

  $37,620 is one heck of a dent!  Very nicely done.  Congrats to her.  Must be nice to be in demand.  To help her understand, tell her that right now I'm finishing up a scholarship application that will net my daughter a whopping $2,000 spread over 4 years IF she gets if.  And IF she gets it, I'll be darn happy.

 

[NewlyRetired]

  $37,620 is one heck of a dent!  Very nicely done.  Congrats to her.  Must be nice to be in demand.  To help her understand, tell her that right now I'm finishing up a scholarship application that will net my daughter a whopping $2,000 spread over 4 years IF she gets if.  And IF she gets it, I'll be darn happy.

It was more than we were expecting so we are pretty happy.  Thank you for the kind words.

The nice thing now is that if she does go to Wheaton (it is going to be hard to beat this package I think, we are not expecting anything close to this from either Trinity or Conn College if she gets in there) that we will have enough left over in her 529 plan to help her get started in grad school if she goes that path.

 

[NewlyRetired]

do we have to redo both FAFSA and CSS Profile every year or is the process slim lined after the first year?

 

[JaxBill]

do we have to redo both FAFSA and CSS Profile every year or is the process slim lined after the first year?

Might depend on school.

For state schools in Florida, it's FAFSA only but every year.

And now that they moved that to Fall it's much easier

 

[JaxBill]

Weird getting the official letters detailing the 111,000 worth if scholarships for 2 OOS schools that my son is turning down to go to UF with no help from school.

( Still cheaper due to cut rate prices, Florida Prepaid  and Bright Futures.)

 

[The_Man]

do we have to redo both FAFSA and CSS Profile every year or is the process slim lined after the first year?

For most, it's only FAFSA (plus tax returns) after the first year.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Through out this process, I kind of scoffed at whether the essay was given any weight or consideration.

Today my daughter received a snail mail package from Wheaton, similar to the stuff she got in email the other day.

One extra item was included, which was a hand written letter to my daughter telling her how much her essay meant in her getting the top scholarship.  I was shocked but I guess they need to differentiate the kids some how for those items when the rest of the stuff looks even.

She took the opportunity to make fun of me "see dad, maybe I won't be a starving artist!".  Oi....oh well, I give her credit, my math skills never got me any money for college but it appears her writing skills did. 

 

[The Dreaded Marco]

It was more than we were expecting so we are pretty happy.  Thank you for the kind words.

The nice thing now is that if she does go to Wheaton (it is going to be hard to beat this package I think, we are not expecting anything close to this from either Trinity or Conn College if she gets in there) that we will have enough left over in her 529 plan to help her get started in grad school if she goes that path.

Congrats to your daughter, and you!  My younger daughter is a junior in HS this year and we've restarted the process that you're just completing (already went through it with my eldest, now a junior in college).  It must be a relief---my wife and I (not to mention my daughter) are nervous wrecks.  Glad I only had 2 kids.

Just curious---what do you do if she gets into Brown or Weslyan, with, I assume, no merit $?

 

[NewlyRetired]

Just curious---what do you do if she gets into Brown, with, I assume, no merit $?

Well I can answer this two ways

1) Brown is her top choice by far, so she will go there if she gets in even with no money.

2) I won't have to worry about this because getting into Brown would be an EXTREME reach for her because Brown is not a test optional school.  My daughters test scores were poor so we had to focus on test optional schools.  Luckily our first experience with test optional with Wheaton went very well so they obviously had no bias against her being test optional.

The real choice might be if she gets into Wesleyan (which she has a shot at) with no money and then doing the comparison.  I have read online that you can submit your offers from other schools to see if a school can come close to matching it.   I will only persue this tactic if she finds she really wants to go some where else instead.

Outside of Brown on top and Northeastern on the bottom she does not really have a ranking of the schools.  Hopefully a second visit will help if she gets into any others besides Wheaton.

 

[Fear The Turtle]

Got the official acceptance package from Richmond.  They really do it up right.  Nice aid as well, thanks to their massive endowment.  We'll check out the campus this weekend.

D also got chosen (out of about 160,000 kids in our school system) to appear in this video: http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/mainstory/story/528885/United-We-Learn/

She's the white kid.  

 

[NewlyRetired]

Got the official acceptance package from Richmond.  They really do it up right.  Nice aid as well, thanks to their massive endowment.  We'll check out the campus this weekend.

D also got chosen (out of about 160,000 kids in our school system) to appear in this video: http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/mainstory/story/528885/United-We-Learn/

She's the white kid.  

awesome!

does your daughter have a first choice or is she keeping that quiet until she hears from every where?

I think a ton of schools are releasing decisions in the next few days.

 

[Fear The Turtle]

awesome!

does your daughter have a first choice or is she keeping that quiet until she hears from every where?

I think a ton of schools are releasing decisions in the next few days.

Thanks NR.  No real favorite that I know of; just waiting for the dust to settle in the next few days, like you said, and then get down to deciding.  Unfortunately, because it took her so long to get on the ball, she hasn't visited about 2/3 of the schools on her list.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Thanks NR.  No real favorite that I know of; just waiting for the dust to settle in the next few days, like you said, and then get down to deciding.  Unfortunately, because it took her so long to get on the ball, she hasn't visited about 2/3 of the schools on her list.

sounds like you guys took a different methodology than we did.  I prefer your method.  My daughter would not apply to any where she did not visit first, which limited her choices.

 

[Fear The Turtle]

sounds like you guys took a different methodology than we did.  I prefer your method.  My daughter would not apply to any where she did not visit first, which limited her choices.

Let's switch kids.  I think I prefer your daughter's style.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Let's switch kids.  I think I prefer your daughter's style.

all joking aside, visiting a campus is incredibly informative.

There were a couple of schools where we went in with good expectations and ten minutes into the informational session all, three of us knew it was wrong.

One mistake we made was visiting too many during the summer.  The difference between a working campus and one that is all but asleep is striking.

 

[NewlyRetired]

The best visit we had was at Conn College.  Because my daughter had a rare half day we decided to schedule a trip down to see the school.  Because it was during the school day and not a holiday the informational and tour was awesome because it was only 4 kids visiting.  The guy running the informational junked his normal speech, sat the kids in a circle and just constantly engaged them.   It was so much nicer than the normal slide show you have to watch with a ton of other people.   I think all the kids got so much more out of it because the speaker was agile enough to focus on what each child was interested in.

 

[MAC_32]

do we have to redo both FAFSA and CSS Profile every year or is the process slim lined after the first year?

It'll depend on the school, but will your daughter be utilizing any federal funding?  If not and it's all out-of-pocket then you may not even need to submit anything.

 

[The_Man]

Got the official acceptance package from Richmond.  They really do it up right.  Nice aid as well, thanks to their massive endowment.  We'll check out the campus this weekend.

D also got chosen (out of about 160,000 kids in our school system) to appear in this video: http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/mainstory/story/528885/United-We-Learn/

She's the white kid.  

I mentioned before -- more than any other school, my impression of Richmond was increased the most after visiting. Didn't know much going in, left impressed. Beautiful campus, student-centered culture, and they really seem to be a school on the rise. It's also going to be 75 and sunny there this weekend.

 

[NewlyRetired]

My daughter just got the acceptance letter for Trinity College.

It said she was accepted as a "Presidential Scholar" which looks to be a good sized merit scholarship but the acceptance letter did not mention any $.  I guess we have to wait for the financial aid package to come in the mail to see what the size of the scholarship is.

 

[NewlyRetired]

It'll depend on the school, but will your daughter be utilizing any federal funding?  If not and it's all out-of-pocket then you may not even need to submit anything.

yes it looks like we do qualify for the FAFSA grants and loans, as we seem to fall through some crack there that the CSS Profile covers (we get nothing from CSS type aid).

 

[NewlyRetired]

oh and a big   to the Test Optional program.  

I was skeptical but both schools that have accepted my daughter did so with what looks like top scholarship offers so there was obviously no bias against using the Test Optional feature of these schools.    

Ironically,  I am not sure my daughter would have even been accepted to Trinity at if she had to use her test scores, much less getting a merit scholarship.

 

[The Z Machine]

Congrats to your daughter, NR.

How did I not know you lived in Maryland? I'd love to cornhole at a soccer game sometime.  I'm in BMore City.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Congrats to your daughter, NR.

How did I not know you lived in Maryland? I'd love to cornhole at a soccer game sometime.  I'm in BMore City.

Thanks!  I think I am happier than she is.  She just shrugged and went back to her writing.  The girl has the emotional reach of a salamander, I swear

I don't live in Maryland.  I live in a Boston suburb.  

 

[The_Man]

oh and a big   to the Test Optional program.  

I was skeptical but both schools that have accepted my daughter did so with what looks like top scholarship offers so there was obviously no bias against using the Test Optional feature of these schools.    

Ironically,  I am not sure my daughter would have even been accepted to Trinity at if she had to use her test scores, much less getting a merit scholarship.

Don't want to get your hopes up, but in recent years, Trinity's Presidential Scholarship has been close to full tuition. My kid was awarded the 1823 scholarship last year (ended up not taking it) and it was like $20k. The Presidential is up the food chain from there. 

I went to Trinity back in the olden days. Would be happy to share with you in DM what I know. Congrats! Sounds like you have a great kid

 

[NewlyRetired]

Don't want to get your hopes up, but in recent years, Trinity's Presidential Scholarship has been close to full tuition. My kid was awarded the 1823 scholarship last year (ended up not taking it) and it was like $20k. The Presidential is up the food chain from there. 

I went to Trinity back in the olden days. Would be happy to share with you in DM what I know. Congrats! Sounds like you have a great kid

Yeah I saw online that the original program was a complete 4 year tuition pay (tuition is $52k next year alone, so if it holds it is well over $200k in scholarship money).  But I can't find any updated info so I am just going to patiently wait this out.

Trinity is lower on her list, but maybe I can use the scholarship (if it turns out to be good) to up other schools offers.  I really suck at negotiations but I would hate to leave that much money on the table if a phone call might get some movement.

I should send you a special thank you as I think you were the first guy to encourage me to look into the Test Optional schools.  Your advice looks to have paid off nicely.  Thank you!

 

[Fear The Turtle]

Yeah I saw online that the original program was a complete 4 year tuition pay (tuition is $52k next year alone, so if it holds it is well over $200k in scholarship money).  But I can't find any updated info so I am just going to patiently wait this out.

Trinity is lower on her list, but maybe I can use the scholarship (if it turns out to be good) to up other schools offers.  I really suck at negotiations but I would hate to leave that much money on the table if a phone call might get some movement.

I should send you a special thank you as I think you were the first guy to encourage me to look into the Test Optional schools.  Your advice looks to have paid off nicely.  Thank you!

So glad for your daughter (and you)!  Congrats.  Also, glad to see that Test Optional is real and not just lip service.

The generous scholarship offer jives with what my book (Princeton Review Best 380 Colleges 2016 Edition) says about Trinity, which it gives a 99 Financial Aid Rating.  Compare to Brown (95) and Conn College (95), which are pretty darn generous themselves. Since you, like me, suck at negotiations, why don't you look to enlist the services of a Financial Aid Consultant?  I've never used one but I guess the idea is they're supposed to guide you through every step of the process but I don't see why you can't go to one and say that you just need help for this one aspect: the end game.  Maybe ask parents or the counselor for a recommendation. Good luck and, again, congrats.

 

[NewlyRetired]

So glad for your daughter (and you)!  Congrats.  Also, glad to see that Test Optional is real and not just lip service.

The generous scholarship offer jives with what my book (Princeton Review Best 380 Colleges 2016 Edition) says about Trinity, which it gives a 99 Financial Aid Rating.  Compare to Brown (95) and Conn College (95), which are pretty darn generous themselves. Since you, like me, suck at negotiations, why don't you look to enlist the services of a Financial Aid Consultant?  I've never used one but I guess the idea is they're supposed to guide you through every step of the process but I don't see why you can't go to one and say that you just need help for this one aspect: the end game.  Maybe ask parents or the counselor for a recommendation. Good luck and, again, congrats.

Thanks.

That is a good idea.  I know the type of service you are talking about.  Hopefully once we get the paper work from Trinity, things will get more clear.

We will hear from Conn College on Saturday.  I think my daughter has a very good chancd to get in as they are equivalent to Trinity but I have no idea about merit money.  I never expected any merit from Trinity and we may have hit the jack pot there so I will keep hoping for Conn College.

How many schools are you still waiting on?  We have three left.

 

[The_Man]

Yeah I saw online that the original program was a complete 4 year tuition pay (tuition is $52k next year alone, so if it holds it is well over $200k in scholarship money).  But I can't find any updated info so I am just going to patiently wait this out.

Trinity is lower on her list, but maybe I can use the scholarship (if it turns out to be good) to up other schools offers.  I really suck at negotiations but I would hate to leave that much money on the table if a phone call might get some movement.

I should send you a special thank you as I think you were the first guy to encourage me to look into the Test Optional schools.  Your advice looks to have paid off nicely.  Thank you!

Thanks for the nice words - glad it's all working out so well for her.

As far as using the Presidential Scholarship to leverage other offers, it might be helpful but don't expect anyone to come close to matching. Schools like Trinity use those big scholarships to attract kids at the top of their applicant pool who would otherwise go to a "better" school. The better schools don't need to match Trinity's offer to get kids like your daughter.

That being said, it doesn't hurt to ask for more. Once all the offers are in, figure out what her top choice is, and what specifically you would like them to do to sweeten your financial package. Make it specific - like replace all her student loans with grants, or knock $4k off your Expected Family Contribution, or whatever. Let them know that she got the free ride from Trinity and that while you understand they can't match that, an increase in her award would be very meaningful to your family, and that she would immediately commit to enrolling if they do give you the financial aid boost you're requesting. Making a specific, reasonable request and letting them know you'll come if you get it is more effective than just saying she got more somewhere else.

Keep us posted!

 

[NewlyRetired]

Thanks for the nice words - glad it's all working out so well for her.

As far as using the Presidential Scholarship to leverage other offers, it might be helpful but don't expect anyone to come close to matching. Schools like Trinity use those big scholarships to attract kids at the top of their applicant pool who would otherwise go to a "better" school. The better schools don't need to match Trinity's offer to get kids like your daughter.

That being said, it doesn't hurt to ask for more. Once all the offers are in, figure out what her top choice is, and what specifically you would like them to do to sweeten your financial package. Make it specific - like replace all her student loans with grants, or knock $4k off your Expected Family Contribution, or whatever. Let them know that she got the free ride from Trinity and that while you understand they can't match that, an increase in her award would be very meaningful to your family, and that she would immediately commit to enrolling if they do give you the financial aid boost you're requesting. Making a specific, reasonable request and letting them know you'll come if you get it is more effective than just saying she got more somewhere else.

Keep us posted!

Thank you.  That all makes very good sense.

Is it best to do this over the phone, or via email?   I am unsure what specifically to ask for but I have read online similar to your advice that you should say things like "can you close the gap a bit" between the two offers.   We won't likely be using this to leverage better schools than Trinity, only to leverage schools similar to Trinity but in the end that probably won't make much difference.

============================================

I did give Trinity a call this morning and they confirmed that the Presidential Scholarship is full tuition for the 4 years.  They also said that any financial aid we receive can then be used towards room and board.

 

[Fear The Turtle]

Thank you.  That all makes very good sense.

Is it best to do this over the phone, or via email?   I am unsure what specifically to ask for but I have read online similar to your advice that you should say things like "can you close the gap a bit" between the two offers.   We won't likely be using this to leverage better schools than Trinity, only to leverage schools similar to Trinity but in the end that probably won't make much difference.

============================================

I did give Trinity a call this morning and they confirmed that the Presidential Scholarship is full tuition for the 4 years.  They also said that any financial aid we receive can then be used towards room and board.

This part is huge. I think we've talked in this thread about outside aid received being deducted from the school's portion, thereby reducing the incentive to chase after some stuff. Better head to Fastweb ASAP.  

 

[Fear The Turtle]

Thanks.

That is a good idea.  I know the type of service you are talking about.  Hopefully once we get the paper work from Trinity, things will get more clear.

We will hear from Conn College on Saturday.  I think my daughter has a very good chancd to get in as they are equivalent to Trinity but I have no idea about merit money.  I never expected any merit from Trinity and we may have hit the jack pot there so I will keep hoping for Conn College.

How many schools are you still waiting on?  We have three left.

Daughter was accepted at Notre Dame.    That leaves Duke, Bucknell, and Michigan (where she was deferred) still out. 

 

[NewlyRetired]

This part is huge. I think we've talked in this thread about outside aid received being deducted from the school's portion, thereby reducing the incentive to chase after some stuff. Better head to Fastweb ASAP.  

I might have been unclear.  I believe when they said that they were referring to the normal FAFSA and CSS type aid, not outside scholarships.  I am unsure how those would be affected.  It may not matter though as if we get the same Federal grants from Trinity that we got from Wheaton, that will eat nicely into the room and board leaving just a small amount to deal with out of pocket.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Daughter was accepted at Notre Dame.    That leaves Duke, Bucknell, and Michigan (where she was deferred) still out. 

oh #### yes!  so many great schools!  It is going to be interesting to see how you guys ending up choosing between them.

congrats!

 

[Fear The Turtle]

I might have been unclear.  I believe when they said that they were referring to the normal FAFSA and CSS type aid, not outside scholarships.  I am unsure how those would be affected.  It may not matter though as if we get the same Federal grants from Trinity that we got from Wheaton, that will eat nicely into the room and board leaving just a small amount to deal with out of pocket.

Got it.  Still, even if it's just the FAFSA type aid that's a big chunk out of your share, as you stated.  Nice.

 

[Fear The Turtle]

oh #### yes!  so many great schools!  It is going to be interesting to see how you guys ending up choosing between them.

congrats!

Thanks. Right, sort of never anticipated the number of acceptances. Good problem to have, I know, definitely not complaining. Of that group, Bucknell is the only one we've actually visited so we will be scrambling on spring break.   

 

[NewlyRetired]

Through out this process, I kind of scoffed at whether the essay was given any weight or consideration.

Today my daughter received a snail mail package from Wheaton, similar to the stuff she got in email the other day.

One extra item was included, which was a hand written letter to my daughter telling her how much her essay meant in her getting the top scholarship.  I was shocked but I guess they need to differentiate the kids some how for those items when the rest of the stuff looks even.

She took the opportunity to make fun of me "see dad, maybe I won't be a starving artist!".  Oi....oh well, I give her credit, my math skills never got me any money for college but it appears her writing skills did. 

I wanted to quote this to emphasize to parents looking at this process for their kids.  Do not underestimate this piece like I did.

When I called Trinity to ask about the Presidential Scholarship, they transferred me to the lady who ran the program.  After asking my daughters name, she mentioned the essay she wrote.

 

[Fear The Turtle]

I wanted to quote this to emphasize to parents looking at this process for their kids.  Do not underestimate this piece like I did.

When I called Trinity to ask about the Presidential Scholarship, they transferred me to the lady who ran the program.  After asking my daughters name, she mentioned the essay she wrote.

I wish I could give this post 10 likes.

 

[NewlyRetired]

I wish I could give this post 10 likes.

I can't tell you of how little importance I considered the essay.  That was the engineer in me I guess.  I never considered it could be used as a differentiator for things like scholarships.  
 

Good for her for nailing it.  I know next to nothing about writing but I can see how it caught the eye of some of these admissions people.

 

[The Z Machine]

That's awesome, NR.  Congrats to your daughter and to your wallet.

 

[NewlyRetired]

That's awesome, NR.  Congrats to your daughter and to your wallet.

thanks.  My wife is in shock as we never planned on even a dime so even the wonderful numbers presented us by Wheaton blew us away from a merit stand point much less what Trinity did.

I am trying to emphasize to my daughter how impressive what she pulled off is but I don't think she can appreciate it as she has VERY low self esteem (she is the exact opposite of what one pictures as one of these smart high school girls).

 

[SteelCurtain]

do we have to redo both FAFSA and CSS Profile every year or is the process slim lined after the first year?

Its every year.  I don't know of any schools that don't require it every year (assuming you received a need based award - including loans). 

If its a merit based scholarship, then it generally does not require you fill out the forms each year.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Its every year.  I don't know of any schools that don't require it every year (assuming you received a need based award - including loans). 

If its a merit based scholarship, then it generally does not require you fill out the forms each year.

from what I have read, it looks like FAFSA is every year but not the CSS Profile.  At least from the schools I looked at.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I can't tell you of how little importance I considered the essay.  That was the engineer in me I guess.  I never considered it could be used as a differentiator for things like scholarships.  

I am one of the people at my university who reviews applications for our high-end merit scholarships.  By the time the applications get to me and my counterparts, it's been narrowed down to 36 students.  They all have close to 4.0 GPAs, 30+ ACTs (30-31 would be clearly below the median for this bunch), a lot of extracurriculars, and so on.  The essay is hugely important in deciding who gets invited to campus when they cut down to a dozen or so finalists.  They all look more or less the same numerically, but some of them have written thoughtful, intelligent essays, and others submit crap.  The essay really is a differentiator at that level. 

 

[NewlyRetired]

I am one of the people at my university who reviews applications for our high-end merit scholarships.  By the time the applications get to me and my counterparts, it's been narrowed down to 36 students.  They all have close to 4.0 GPAs, 30+ ACTs (30-31 would be clearly below the median for this bunch), a lot of extracurriculars, and so on.  The essay is hugely important in deciding who gets invited to campus when they cut down to a dozen or so finalists.  They all look more or less the same numerically, but some of them have written thoughtful, intelligent essays, and others submit crap.  The essay really is a differentiator at that level. 

thanks for the info.  It really does make sense since the numbers can make the kids all look similar at that level.

It makes you wonder though, how does an elite student pass in a crap essay?  Average I could see but do you really see garbage from a 4.0 student?

 

[Bossman]

My daughter is ranked #2 (of 150) in her high school senior class. Honors classes. Brilliant.

Nailed her ACT's / SAT's (don't know the scores off the top of my head).

Played sports, math club, National Honor Society, student council, etc.

She was "wait listed" for both Boston University and Georga Tech.

What more does it take to get into these schools? Sheesh!

 

[NewlyRetired]

My daughter is ranked #2 (of 150) in her high school senior class. Honors classes. Brilliant.

Nailed her ACT's / SAT's (don't know the scores off the top of my head).

Played sports, math club, National Honor Society, student council, etc.

She was "wait listed" for both Boston University and Georga Tech.

What more does it take to get into these schools? Sheesh!

one thing I have learned is that the competition among-st white American girls seems to be incredible.  So many of them have amazing educational stats.

 

[Fear The Turtle]

My daughter is ranked #2 (of 150) in her high school senior class. Honors classes. Brilliant.

Nailed her ACT's / SAT's (don't know the scores off the top of my head).

Played sports, math club, National Honor Society, student council, etc.

She was "wait listed" for both Boston University and Georga Tech.

What more does it take to get into these schools? Sheesh!

I see the student council. Did she have any outside charity or service work on her resume? That seems to be playing a bigger role in the process.

 

[Bossman]

I see the student council. Did she have any outside charity or service work on her resume? That seems to be playing a bigger role in the process.

She had volunteer hours that were required for National Honor Society which included tutoring younger students after school. No soup kitchen work though.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

thanks for the info.  It really does make sense since the numbers can make the kids all look similar at that level.

It makes you wonder though, how does an elite student pass in a crap essay?  Average I could see but do you really see garbage from a 4.0 student?

Yes.  I have seen students with extremely good numbers submit essays that are about one paragraph in length that read like a poorly-written post from this forum.  No joke.  I would say about a third of the essays I read are terrible and were thrown together in less than five minutes.  I'm sure these students could do better, but many of them just don't realize that it's important and they don't put any time or effort into it.