I like it. I’m less worried about my first and last boys. Middle one, that’s another story.
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College Admissions Questions (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter NewlyRetired
- Start date
Well, South Carolina threw a little wrench in my son’s thoughts. He got into their Honors College and they’d already given him in state tuition. He still has to wait on Clemson’s honors college and their scholarship award. UNC decision comes mid-January but he was really stoked to get accepted because he wasn’t expecting it.
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
My parents were paying for my school, but I was a pretty unmotivated student for a few years. Well I was motivated to party, just not to go to class. So in my junior year my dad, a psychologist who specialized in behavior modification, came up with a sliding scale of what percentage he would pay the next quarter, tied to my gpa. A 3.76-4, 100%. 3.5-3.75, 90%, etc down to something like below a 2.75 was 0%.
Unfortuntately I still cared more about partying and he cut me off after the next quarter. I didn’t blame him at all - I was wasting his money. It took me another couple of years and two summers working 90-110 hour weeks in Alaska to finally get my #### together and take school seriously, but I always thought his idea was a good one.
The_Man
Footballguy
Hey @Nigel, there's a pretty good article from the Georgetown paper about this year's Early Action pool and decisions:
http://www.thehoya.com/class-2023-early-action-admissions-rate-reaches-record-low/
Under 11% acceptance rate for the College, if that's the school your daughter applied to - even tougher to get into than Foreign Service.
I still think there's a good shot she gets in Regular Decision, if she even still wants to go there at that point.
http://www.thehoya.com/class-2023-early-action-admissions-rate-reaches-record-low/
Under 11% acceptance rate for the College, if that's the school your daughter applied to - even tougher to get into than Foreign Service.
I still think there's a good shot she gets in Regular Decision, if she even still wants to go there at that point.
chet
Footballguy
A couple of years ago, my daughter and I met a former Stanford AO who was now a college counselor at a ritzy HS in San Francisco. He offered to help with advice when it was time for my daughter to apply. She reached out after being deferred, and he provided some great advice related to the update form that Stanford asks deferred students to complete.
Here's her email with her thoughts on the update form:
Obviously nothing earth shattering but still very insightful and his advice will have her shape the update in a completely different way than she originally thought. Hopefully his advice will help others here too.
Here's her email with her thoughts on the update form:
Here's his response:
Obviously nothing earth shattering but still very insightful and his advice will have her shape the update in a completely different way than she originally thought. Hopefully his advice will help others here too.
jhib
Footballguy
I'm glad I checked in to skim this thread as my son is a junior and interested in Georgetown - I wouldn't have known about their application differences you guys have mentioned.
I'm not looking forward to a second go-around on all this, although I have a feeling it's going to be a very different experience with my son compared to my daughter (college sophomore now). She took both the ACT (2x) and ACT (1x), had a smaller group of schools she was interested in, and ended up applying early decision to her school and getting in. He's all over the place with schools he's interested in - different sizes, areas, competitiveness, etc - and I doubt he'll be set enough on one school to do ED.
I thought he was going to wait until this spring to take his first standardized test, and thought it was a good idea since there's usually some stuff in math that they don't cover until later in precalc anyway, and it would give him some time to work through a test prep book more than the one or two practice tests he took. But he asked if he could take the ACT in December (of course, not early enough to get the reduced fee for it when signing up). He's the copy editor for his school newspaper, so wasn't too worried about the English sections, but not as confident in Math.
Well, he ended up getting a 35, with basically perfect English and Science scores and something in the lower 30s in Math. We're totally letting him decide if that's it then, and he's pretty sure there's no point in taking it again or bothering with the SAT. It's a big relief for all of us, although a silly, greedy part of me kind of wishes he had waited and prepared more for the math to get that 36.
He has a very realistic view of the application process. He's seen enough people he knows from his high school - with perfect grades and test scores and better extras than he probably has - apply and get rejected or wait-listed to top schools to know that it's basically a crap shoot for qualified applicants at more than a few schools. Unfortunately, we probably are going to have to convince him that it's still worth a shot. But in the end, he's the kind of kid who will want to go to whatever school feels like the best fit for him rather than worrying about getting into the toughest one he can, which I think is a really good thing.
I'm not looking forward to a second go-around on all this, although I have a feeling it's going to be a very different experience with my son compared to my daughter (college sophomore now). She took both the ACT (2x) and ACT (1x), had a smaller group of schools she was interested in, and ended up applying early decision to her school and getting in. He's all over the place with schools he's interested in - different sizes, areas, competitiveness, etc - and I doubt he'll be set enough on one school to do ED.
I thought he was going to wait until this spring to take his first standardized test, and thought it was a good idea since there's usually some stuff in math that they don't cover until later in precalc anyway, and it would give him some time to work through a test prep book more than the one or two practice tests he took. But he asked if he could take the ACT in December (of course, not early enough to get the reduced fee for it when signing up). He's the copy editor for his school newspaper, so wasn't too worried about the English sections, but not as confident in Math.
Well, he ended up getting a 35, with basically perfect English and Science scores and something in the lower 30s in Math. We're totally letting him decide if that's it then, and he's pretty sure there's no point in taking it again or bothering with the SAT. It's a big relief for all of us, although a silly, greedy part of me kind of wishes he had waited and prepared more for the math to get that 36.
He has a very realistic view of the application process. He's seen enough people he knows from his high school - with perfect grades and test scores and better extras than he probably has - apply and get rejected or wait-listed to top schools to know that it's basically a crap shoot for qualified applicants at more than a few schools. Unfortunately, we probably are going to have to convince him that it's still worth a shot. But in the end, he's the kind of kid who will want to go to whatever school feels like the best fit for him rather than worrying about getting into the toughest one he can, which I think is a really good thing.
scorchy
Footballguy
Slightly off-topic (high school admission, not college) but figured this was the best place to get advice.
My 8th-grade son really surprised my wife and me earlier this school year when he expressed a desire to go to a private school in the city rather than the local suburban public school. The primary reason was their Russian language program. He had been learning Russian on his own in preparation for a summer trip we took to some former Soviet states, and his passion for it has been really impressive. Given this seemed to be a pretty good reason for him to choose a school (compared to the success of their soccer team or something), we agreed that he could pursue it. Both my wife and I were public school kids from K thru advanced degrees, so this has been a totally new world for us.
Given our income, we didn't apply for financial aid, but he did submit an application for a merit scholarship covering 2/3 of the tuition that is awarded to entering 9th graders and renewable for all 4 years of high school. Honestly, we didn't think he had that much of a chance. He is strong academically and athletically, and has very good test scores, but didn't have a lot of volunteer/community work (the kind of things Quaker schools really stress) or more artistic interests. In his application, he wrote about his summer as volunteer counselor at a local camp and the knowledge he has gained about community from visiting places around the globe.
We were all pretty surprised this weekend when he got an email that he was a semi-finalist for the scholarship. He goes in for an interview this weekend and is nervous about what to expect. The school stated that he doesn't need to prepare, but his mom and I do want to help him be more comfortable. He is on the introverted side, definitely more so with adults he doesn't know. Does anybody have experience with this type of thing or have any advice? I don't want him to feel pressure, because he's going to get to attend (as long he is accepted) whether he gets the scholarship or not, but being able to save a major outlay for college would really be nice.
Appreciate any input.
My 8th-grade son really surprised my wife and me earlier this school year when he expressed a desire to go to a private school in the city rather than the local suburban public school. The primary reason was their Russian language program. He had been learning Russian on his own in preparation for a summer trip we took to some former Soviet states, and his passion for it has been really impressive. Given this seemed to be a pretty good reason for him to choose a school (compared to the success of their soccer team or something), we agreed that he could pursue it. Both my wife and I were public school kids from K thru advanced degrees, so this has been a totally new world for us.
Given our income, we didn't apply for financial aid, but he did submit an application for a merit scholarship covering 2/3 of the tuition that is awarded to entering 9th graders and renewable for all 4 years of high school. Honestly, we didn't think he had that much of a chance. He is strong academically and athletically, and has very good test scores, but didn't have a lot of volunteer/community work (the kind of things Quaker schools really stress) or more artistic interests. In his application, he wrote about his summer as volunteer counselor at a local camp and the knowledge he has gained about community from visiting places around the globe.
We were all pretty surprised this weekend when he got an email that he was a semi-finalist for the scholarship. He goes in for an interview this weekend and is nervous about what to expect. The school stated that he doesn't need to prepare, but his mom and I do want to help him be more comfortable. He is on the introverted side, definitely more so with adults he doesn't know. Does anybody have experience with this type of thing or have any advice? I don't want him to feel pressure, because he's going to get to attend (as long he is accepted) whether he gets the scholarship or not, but being able to save a major outlay for college would really be nice.
Appreciate any input.
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bigbottom
Footballguy
We did some interviews for high school. I wouldn't overthink it. I would just ensure that he has the basics down - firm handshake, eye contact, and no mumbling. Otherwise I would just tell him to answer the questions honestly as best as he can. If you want to practice at all, I would just practice having a casual conversation, asking and answering questions on any topic (e.g. favorite soccer players). I wouldn't try to prepare or practice substantive answers as it may be more likely to twist him up. But that's just one man's opinion.
Fear The Turtle
Footballguy
Remind him to ask questions, maybe specifically about the Russian language program.
El Floppo
Footballguy
I started doing interviews for my alma mater (columbia) last year- they emphasized the bolded bit... to try to get the kid talking about their life and interests in ways that don't show up on an application, not reinforce what's already there. what I'm understanding is that most of these kids have great grades and test scores with extra-curriculars and volunteering up the wazoo- and that the schools are looking to find kids that can think beyond just ticking all the boxes that make them sound like a good student; kids that will be able to bring different approaches and experiences and enrich a campus with their presence.
El Floppo
Footballguy
The_Man
Footballguy
Congrats! Your kid is going to college.
You knew that already, but it definitely deflated the stress balloon once you have that first acceptance in hand
Plus UVA is a great school. Very high on my kid’s list tho it turned out to be a little too $$ for us out of state, which I know is no object for you
bigbottom
Footballguy
jhib
Footballguy
The first round of college informational mailings are showing up in the mail for my son and boy, these admissions offices are sure a bunch of copycats. Every single one so far has included some version of "sign up on our website with your username and password below, answer a few questions, and we'll send you a free copy of How to Pick the Right College for You" or "5 Proven Campus Visit Tips" or something like that. I don't remember that kind of strategy when my daughter was getting them a few years ago, so I assume it's new.
Then these are the same people who are going to tell your kids they have to stand out to show they deserve to be admitted in their institution. I find that pretty funny when I think about it.
Then these are the same people who are going to tell your kids they have to stand out to show they deserve to be admitted in their institution. I find that pretty funny when I think about it.
Nigel
Footballguy
Daughter was flat-out rejected by UNC. Not one of her top choices but sure would be nice to have options.
Six irons left in fire (Gtown, Vandy, Penn, Duke, NWstrn, Claremont McKenna). Pretty sure she’d choose any over BC, praying CM isn’t the only other one she gets in to - really don’t want her that far away.
Six irons left in fire (Gtown, Vandy, Penn, Duke, NWstrn, Claremont McKenna). Pretty sure she’d choose any over BC, praying CM isn’t the only other one she gets in to - really don’t want her that far away.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
My son was wait-listed at UNC and I have no idea why. He heard from a friend about someone that got in with a worse GPA and lower test scores. I'm flabbergasted seeing as how he's in-state (acceptance rate is higher) and he's gotten straight As, taken AP courses, has good extra-curriculars and he's close to the 75th percentile of last year's test scores. Same day he got his invitation to interview at Dartmouth and was at an admitted student's reception for South Carolina's Honors College, both of which have higher stats than UNC. He absolutely had more than good enough stats to be well above average for last year's incoming class.
Oh well, I'm just glad he and my wife had a great time and were really impressed with the Honors College this weekend and the research opportunities/benefits they give the honors students (priority housing and other things). I think that's his top choice now even if somehow he get's into Dartmouth. I think only Clemson and their Honors College could jump in front because I can't imagine that any of the other schools will offer enough to match USC's offer.
I wonder if things are a little funky this year because my son has mentioned that a lot of his friends haven't been getting in to schools that you think they definitely would have.
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chet
Footballguy
GLLLLL
My daughter applied to 4 of those schools as well. CMC is an impressive place albeit a little small.
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jhib
Footballguy
I have a nephew who goes there (pretty sure he's a junior). He has absolutely loved it so far, and his parents only have good things to say about it.
But they live out West anyway, so no distance issue.
MAC_32
Footballguy
scorchy
Footballguy
Apparently the interview went really well. Funny how teenage boys can go from monosyllabic grunters to actual well-spoken human beings when necessary. We won't know till mid-February, but I'm happy he got this far -- feel like the whole process has been good for him. Funniest part was when we were walking out and my wife told him that he really seemed at ease. He lifted his arms and showed me the spreading pit-stains on his dress shirt - "Dad, I kept my arms down the whole last half of the interview hoping they wouldn't notice."
ffjunk
Footballguy
Being in state sometimes hurts. Colleges want to be diversified accepting from all over. Plus out of state pays more $$ and that's what it always comes down to.stbugs said:
UMass did the same thing.
Could be although UNC has an in-state threshold (80%) that they have to hit. It’s too bad since it was his first choice and everyone told him he should get in. I’m surprised how quickly he got over it, just glad he had a great visit. Maybe there were just way more applications this year, but I’m still surprised that he was in the top 3rd of scores/grades and got waitlisted when the in-State acceptance rate is 40%. We are getting a huge influx of Northerners (like me) in NC and my son mentioned friends not getting into other NC state schools with much better scores than friends who went to the same schools last year. I’m sure it’s the same thing every year but to him it seems to be a noticeable change from last year.
Instinctive
Footballguy
Do UG institutions yield protect? That same story told with UG GPA and an LSAT score would explain getting in at top ones and not others. e.g I was waitlisted by UV Law because they knew I'd have better options. So if you really want to go, a follow up letter of interest and an updated final transcript and stuff helps a ton.
I have ZERO idea if it is the same for undergrad admissions.
I have ZERO idea if it is the same for undergrad admissions.
The_Man
Footballguy
Undergrad institutions absolutely yield protect, though I don't think that is the case for UNC. UNC is simply that competitive.
I'm more and more convinced that applying binding Early Decision to a school where you exceed the 75th percentile stats is the only way to bring any predictability to selective college admissions at this point. I saw these numbers below earlier today - it's the percentage of last year's freshman classes that were filled with ED students. Once you see how much of a class is already full before Regular Decision even starts, you realize how hard it is to get in RD.
Bates 71
Middlebury 64
Davidson 61
Wake Forest 60
Claremont McKenna 59
Wesleyan 58
Washington and Lee 57
Colorado College 56
UPenn 55
Northwestern 54
Vanderbilt 54
Lehigh 54
Hamilton 53
Skidmore 52
Kenyon 51
Swarthmore 51
Colby 50
Haverford 50
Pomona 50
Barnard 49
Bowdoin 49
Colgate 49
Conn College 49
Emory 49
Lafayette 49
I'm more and more convinced that applying binding Early Decision to a school where you exceed the 75th percentile stats is the only way to bring any predictability to selective college admissions at this point. I saw these numbers below earlier today - it's the percentage of last year's freshman classes that were filled with ED students. Once you see how much of a class is already full before Regular Decision even starts, you realize how hard it is to get in RD.
Bates 71
Middlebury 64
Davidson 61
Wake Forest 60
Claremont McKenna 59
Wesleyan 58
Washington and Lee 57
Colorado College 56
UPenn 55
Northwestern 54
Vanderbilt 54
Lehigh 54
Hamilton 53
Skidmore 52
Kenyon 51
Swarthmore 51
Colby 50
Haverford 50
Pomona 50
Barnard 49
Bowdoin 49
Colgate 49
Conn College 49
Emory 49
Lafayette 49
E-Z Glider
Footballguy
So my daughter was accepted to Dickinson and offered the $15k/yr merit scholarship, but we were really hoping for the top offer of $20k/yr. They both have the exact same requirements, so its not like she didnt qualify.
She is planning to go back to them to see if they will sweeten the offer. Just looking for any additional tips/experience/thoughts on this process.
- She did receive much bigger merit scholarship offers from Dusquesne and Arcadia and was invited to apply for merit scholarship from JMU, so we are planning to include this info. Not looking for them to match these offers, really just hoping they will up her to the $20k merit scholarship.
- She has also improved her GPA slightly since she applied and has continued a very demanding schedule instead of just coasting as many seniors do.
What other things should she be adding? Any other suggestions?
The_Man
Footballguy
Congrats! I don't want to repeat everything I said earlier, but understand that Dickinson isn't necessarily going to match - their thinking is that Duquesne isn't as desirable as Dickinson, so they don't have to offer as much to be attractive. If Dickinson is her first choice and she would definitely go there if they bump her to the $20K scholarship, here's how I would frame her letter (not these exact words, but along these lines):
Dear Dickinson,
Thanks so much for the generous $15K merit scholarship. I am writing to ask if it's possible for you to re-evaluate my application in light of my ongoing academic success as a senior, and consider awarding me the $20K scholarship. Since my initial application, I have improved my GPA and continued to pursue a very demanding academic schedule. I have included an unofficial copy of my most recent transcript/report card, and would be happy to have my guidance counselor send you a formal version if you desire.
Dickinson is my first choice school. However, finances are a consideration for my family and I have been accepted with merit aid awards at other institutions that would make them much more affordable for me to attend. I don't expect Dickinson to match those offers. But if the College is able to award me the additional $5k a year merit award in light of my ongoing academic achievement, it would close the gap enough to enable me to enroll.
Thank you again, and please don't hesitate to contact me for any additional information.
Sincerely,..
Dear Dickinson,
Thanks so much for the generous $15K merit scholarship. I am writing to ask if it's possible for you to re-evaluate my application in light of my ongoing academic success as a senior, and consider awarding me the $20K scholarship. Since my initial application, I have improved my GPA and continued to pursue a very demanding academic schedule. I have included an unofficial copy of my most recent transcript/report card, and would be happy to have my guidance counselor send you a formal version if you desire.
Dickinson is my first choice school. However, finances are a consideration for my family and I have been accepted with merit aid awards at other institutions that would make them much more affordable for me to attend. I don't expect Dickinson to match those offers. But if the College is able to award me the additional $5k a year merit award in light of my ongoing academic achievement, it would close the gap enough to enable me to enroll.
Thank you again, and please don't hesitate to contact me for any additional information.
Sincerely,..
E-Z Glider
Footballguy
SteelCurtain
Footballguy
Yes, there is an outside company in the profession who is notorious for this practice. They handle all the marketing for these schools.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I mean this in all seriousness. Have you ever thought of giving seminars at a library or other public place? Even just as a volunteer? Your information would be so welcome to so many parents who like myself were clueless about how this all works.The_Man said:
You have a wonderful way to get your points across so that those of us not knowledgeable in the subject can understand.
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Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
My daughter has been in the challenge program for several years at her school. It's a seminar/independent project class for kids who tested into it. She is starting HS next year and unsure whether she really wants to do it. One of the reasons that she thinks she should do it is that they will supposedly put "Gifted" on her HS transcript, even if she only does it for one year.
I kind of think she should try it anyway, but would having that on her transcript actually have any effect on college admissions or would it not matter?
I kind of think she should try it anyway, but would having that on her transcript actually have any effect on college admissions or would it not matter?
The_Man
Footballguy
Thanks my Bantam friend. I’ve worked for a long time in higher ed marketing and then did an 8-year stint at a private school that coincided with my older kid going through the college admissions process. My best work buddy during that time was the Director of College Counseling who literally is one of the top guys in the country. I’ve learned a ton from him.
But, to his credit, he doesn’t have the marketing mindset. He’s literally about helping each kid find the best possible fit, whereas I’m much more mercenary about calculating how to “package” a kid to get them into the most selective school they’ve targeted. I find this stuff so interesting and seriously considered a career change but my friend cautioned me that the fun “marketing” aspect of the job is far outweighed by chasing down lazy high school kids to turn their stuff in and dealing with irate parents who don’t take responsibility for their kids’ laziness.
Which is all a long way of saying I like thinking about this stuff and am glad if people here find it helpful but this is probably about as far as I’m qualified to take it. Other than figuring out how to get my Kid #2 into college a couple years from now.
The_Man
Footballguy
If you think you daughter will be interested in applying to highly selective schools, it's important that she takes whatever the district considers its most challenging academic curriculum. When the guidance counselor is filling out her rec form 4 years from now, he'll have to check a box saying if your daughter took a "Challenging" curriculum or "Most Challenging." You want the Most Challenging box checked. I don't know if this class has any bearing on how your district determines that, or if it will be judged later by how many APs she's taken, or whatever. But my feeling is that it couldn't hurt, plus she's also going to be in there with a bunch of other high-achieving type kids, who might well become part of her friend group and reinforce good habits. And my number one takeaway from my 21-year-old kid's high school experience was that his peer group was probably the most important factor in not only his attitude toward school, but more importantly his overall happiness and well-being.
bigbottom
Footballguy
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BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Well, this is depressing. My kid is a dummy. He goes to ninth grade next year, and we need to register for classes in a couple weeks. So a lot of the college talk has started up in the household. This thread has been very informative for me. I was thinking it might be better for him to take some less-challenging classes just to try to help pad his GPA. For example, they have the option to take six classes and a study hall, or take seven classes. I figured pass on study hall (he'll do nothing anyway!) and take some cream-puff class. I know everyone in here is going to Harvard, and my kid's likely to be a state-school kid, so maybe none of this kind of stuff matters in his case.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
when my daughter was going through the process, I talked to as many college admittance people as possible. In rough terms, many colleges look at the following 6 items, in order of importance.
1) Course level difficulty
2) GPA (unweighted)
3) Test Scores
4) Awards
5) Essay
6) Extra curricular actives
Ignore #6 unless your child is some what gifted in a non academic field (music, sports etc).
#5 can never get you into a school, but it can keep you out. It is mostly used to help divide the top of the incoming class for merit base awards.
1, 2, and 3 speak for themselves. Test scores are important to some schools and not to others.
I noticed you mentioned the word "he". Be aware that while colleges will likely never admit it, they treat boys and girls differently in the hopes of keeping their classes diverse in gender. Colleges know many many boys are knuckleheads in early high school and are given latitude as long as they show growth and improvement.
Because many teen aged girls are pretty much academic rock stars from the moment they get to High School, colleges hold them up to different standards.
The_Man
Footballguy
Way too much college admissions focus is on the highly selective schools - I'm totally guilty of this.
The stuff about "Most Challenging Curriculum" is for kids who want to shoot for the highly selective schools. If that's not your kid, no worries.
In 2016, the average admissions rate for all colleges was around 66 percent. Only 20 percent of schools admit less than 50 percent of applicants. It's just that 20 percent draws the vast majority of the attention.
Let him take what he's interested in and what he'll be successful at.
E-Z Glider
Footballguy
I think most of "this kind of stuff" applies more to kids trying to get into highly-selective schools or else kids trying to maximize merit scholarships from less-selective private schools.
In PA, the state schools dont really offer any merit scholarships and none of them are highly-selective (other than maybe honors programs or getting accepted into Main campus at PSU). Not sure if this is the case in other states or not.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Appreciate the info, guys. Even if it doesn't apply that much to my son, still an interesting read. How horrible of a person am I that I'm really looking forward to being able to check the Latino box for him? Please tell me there's a Latino box.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
What I heard from multiple admin people was that the essay can never make up for a poor rest of the application. It by itself can't get you admitted. My guess is that even though they did not say it specifically, if you had poor grades and test scores and then passed in a brilliant essay, they may wonder who wrote it.
On the other side of the coin I have also heard that a poorly written essay can screw up an otherwise solid application.
This is what I meant by my "essay can't get you in but can keep you out" comment.
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ffjunk
Footballguy
Try and have him get his grades to a 3.0 for his high school years. That's where the merit aid starts. You are starting at the right time.
bigbottom
Footballguy
Oh yeah, I think we’re on the same page. A well written essay won’t help you overcome poor grades and test scores. But when a school is looking at a bunch of applicants with similar grades and scores, the essay can be the difference-maker.
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