College Admissions Questions (1 Viewer)

[The_Man]

How’s everyone else doing with drop-offs? :(  

My son did a gap year in Morocco after graduating from high school in 2016. Now he's a junior and left last Saturday to spend the semester in China. I actually think it might be getting harder to say goodbye. I know it's not getting any easier...

 

[Nigel]

going to drop off on Sunday.  Daughter is very sad as always about going but hopefully she will be able to focus on her school work soon enough (school starts the day after labor day for her).

What year is she? I’m sure its especially rough for you knowing her social struggles leave little chance of her actually enjoying college life. Best of luck to her grinding through it.

Of my three kids my oldest is the one I worry most about, which makes leaving her 3k miles away even harder. She’s just so damn hard on herself, to the point that if I could choose one “sure thing” of any kind for the future her happiness would without hesitation be my one wish. But I left Claremont McKenna last night feeling like it was the place that gives her the best chance. Everything about it seems right for her. When it was time to say goodbye I gave her a hug and choked these words into her ear: “learn to love yourself and everything else will take care of itself.” I was a blubbering mess though, not sure she could even understand what the f I said.

The good news is its a beautiful day in SoCal and I’m presently day-drinking heavily on Doheny State Beach which is making me feel more optimistic than ever!

 

[Nigel]

My son did a gap year in Morocco after graduating from high school in 2016. Now he's a junior and left last Saturday to spend the semester in China. I actually think it might be getting harder to say goodbye. I know it's not getting any easier...

Yea, sending him to China for is a next-level goodbye, what a great experience though. Good luck to him!

 

[IrishTwinkie]

How’s everyone else doing with drop-offs? :(  

A week  in after dropping the elder 2 outta 3. At times the adjustment is... rough. The youngest is still at home and she's not quite ready to be the only kid. The house is quieter and unnatural. Last year showed me that a new normal settles in, but it takes a bit. I just wanna find the jerk that gave them permission to grow up. Who ever it was needs a punch in the nose.  

 

[NewlyRetired]

What year is she? I’m sure its especially rough for you knowing her social struggles leave little chance of her actually enjoying college life. Best of luck to her grinding through it.

Of my three kids my oldest is the one I worry most about, which makes leaving her 3k miles away even harder. She’s just so damn hard on herself, to the point that if I could choose one “sure thing” of any kind for the future her happiness would without hesitation be my one wish. But I left Claremont McKenna last night feeling like it was the place that gives her the best chance. Everything about it seems right for her. When it was time to say goodbye I gave her a hug and choked these words into her ear: “learn to love yourself and everything else will take care of itself.” I was a blubbering mess though, not sure she could even understand what the f I said.

The good news is its a beautiful day in SoCal and I’m presently day-drinking heavily on Doheny State Beach which is making me feel more optimistic than ever!

She is a junior this year.

She gets most of her anti social behavior from me but I still loved every second of college.  I am most saddened that she is never going to get a second chance at this.

We are going to spend most of this year trying to convince her that an internship is not optional.  I don't see it ending well but we have to try.

With your daughter so far away, how do you guys handle move in?  Do you just buy three plane tickets, pack clothes and then buy what she needs when you get to the college?

 

[Nigel]

With your daughter so far away, how do you guys handle move in?  Do you just buy three plain tickets, pack clothes and then buy what she needs when you get to the college?

We shipped three boxes of stuff to our hotel in advance, had a bunch of stuff shipped to an Amazon locker at a local bank, packed and checked on the flight three giant duffle bags full of stuff (each of which teetered on the 50 lb limit), and hit local Bed Bath/Targets when we got here. A lot to coordinate but it all went smoothly.

 

[Fishboy]

With your daughter so far away, how do you guys handle move in?  Do you just buy three plane tickets, pack clothes and then buy what she needs when you get to the college?

Loaded up the truck and away we went. 

Taped off an area of the floor in the family room with painters tape and cut a piece of wood for the height of the truck bed and warned my daughter it all needs to fit inside the lines or it's not going. 

1600+ miles, 30+ hours of drive time and 101 gallons of gas. 

 

[El Floppo]

Clothes, linens, toiletries...is there something else that they need to bring for their dorm rooms? 

 

[E-Z Glider]

How’s everyone else doing with drop-offs? :(  

Way harder than I expected. My wife cried off-and-on for a good couple hours. Makes me sad every time I walk by her room.

 

[E-Z Glider]

Clothes, linens, toiletries...is there something else that they need to bring for their dorm rooms? 

lol... yeah right... Probably depends on boy/girl, but we had amazon boxes showing up every day for the past couple weeks. Shelves, drawers, carpet, decorations, art supplies, school supplies, fridge, microwave, makeup, books, command strips, organizers, backpacks.... and shoes... lots and lots of shoes.

 

[IrishTwinkie]

Way harder than I expected. My wife cried off-and-on for a good couple hours. Makes me sad every time I walk by her room.

This.

Last year was my eldest's first year at school. We had friends that suggested closing the bedroom door. They claimed it made it easier to imagine they were just out w/friends or whatever and not really out of the house. I scoffed at these mental gymnastics. We dropped her off, some 1800 miles away (MA to GA...) and got back. Being the moronic tough guy that I was, shortly after returning home I went into the room. I had been pleading w/her to get the room cleaned before she left. It had been a disaster zone. I wanted to see what became of it. She did a great job cleaning the room. Got every thing picked up off the floor, vacuumed the carpet, made the bed, folded all the blankets. And sitting on top of her pillows was this little hand puppet bunny. This bunny was part of her and mine bedtime routine when she was little. It was sitting on pillow, just waiting for her to return. I totally lost it.   Had to walk out of the room, close that bleeping door and walk out of the house. 

This year, when we got home, the cat that adopted my son as her human was searching in his room for him. Meowing forlornly. Not quite as bad as the bunny trap my daughter set for me, but bad enough. 

 

[El Floppo]

lol... yeah right... Probably depends on boy/girl, but we had amazon boxes showing up every day for the past couple weeks. Shelves, drawers, carpet, decorations, art supplies, school supplies, fridge, microwave, makeup, books, command strips, organizers, backpacks.... and shoes... lots and lots of shoes.

I was being serious... but with only my own distant limited experience of showing up with those things only. room had a desk, chair and bed. I'm sure I bought a lamp and a computer (mac plus!) and my room mate got a fridge. eventually decorated the walls with crap... but I don't remember buying any furniture or much else.

 

[NewlyRetired]

I was being serious... but with only my own distant limited experience of showing up with those things only. room had a desk, chair and bed. I'm sure I bought a lamp and a computer (mac plus!) and my room mate got a fridge. eventually decorated the walls with crap... but I don't remember buying any furniture or much else.

You would be surprised at how much it adds up.  My daughter is super low maintenance with this stuff and we still fill the car every year.  

 

[stbugs]

Dropped off my son the prior Saturday and honestly I’m surprised my wife cried less than I thought she would. We still have two more goofballs in 9th and 7th so not empty nesters for a while. It’s weird having an empty room but like puppet bunny daughter above, my son was a slob at home. Very organized with school and work, etc., but let his room be his I don’t care place. Still wonder how things land on the floor in front of the closet with the laundry basket. My wife did his dirty laundry that he didn’t bring and the room sparkles now.

It was a tough drop off because he had so many friends at other NC schools and he got a text on move in day that his roommate bailed on college. He was really upset but after meeting his suite mates and us rearranging the crap out of the room, he seemed better. I think that was the worst part because all of a sudden the guy he “knew” at Clemson was gone. He did have a heart to heart with me the next day saying he wasn’t sure if he made the right choice and I told him to go to the events, meet some more people and at least let the classes start. A week and a half later and we barely hear from him. He’s great, enjoys his professors and is planning to rush after going to some frat parties. He’s super social and I knew he’d be fine but it’s a big change especially since most of his friends from home have been friends for many years.

 

[bigbottom]

These drop-off stories are filling me with dread. Our son is currently a senior and will be leaving for school a year from now. As many of you know, our oldest son died of cancer at the age of 13.  He was in 8th grade and his younger brother was in 6th. In addition to our foundation, my wife and I filled the giant hole in our lives by focusing all our attention on our son, to make sure that he was coping well and doing well. When he leaves next year, and we become empty nesters, I have a feeling we will be residually mourning the loss of Chance once again.  It’s going to be rough. 

 

[stbugs]

These drop-off stories are filling me with dread. Our son is currently a senior and will be leaving for school a year from now. As many of you know, our oldest son died of cancer at the age of 13.  He was in 8th grade and his younger brother was in 6th. I’m addition to our foundation, my wife and I filled the giant hole in our lives by focusing all our attention on our son, to make sure that he was coping well and doing well. When he leaves next year, and we become empty nesters, I have a feeling we will be residually mourning the loss of Chance once again.  It’s going to be rough. 

I can only imagine. I’m sure he’ll adjust just fine, but it’s probably going to be harder on you guys. I hope for nothing but the best for you guys and if somehow you decide on Clemson, I can give you the entire scoop.

 

[bigbottom]

I can only imagine. I’m sure he’ll adjust just fine, but it’s probably going to be harder on you guys. I hope for nothing but the best for you guys and if somehow you decide on Clemson, I can give you the entire scoop.

Make no mistake, it will absolutely be tougher on us. He can’t wait. And Clemson is still very much in the mix, so I will certainly let you know how things progress. Thanks for being willing to share the intel!

 

[Tick]

Man, my boss's kid didn't make it to the first day - had a panic attack and dropped out.  That has to be so heart-wrenching.

My daughter's loving Alabama so far.  We drove down with her to move in - she moved in something like 10 days early to take a week-long community service class in the honors college, and just loved it - she basically spent 10 days meeting people and feeling good about the work they were doing.  It really helped her settle in. 

 

[bigbottom]

Applications in at four schools, with five more to go. This process is a real grind!

 

[SFBayDuck]

Way harder than I expected. My wife cried off-and-on for a good couple hours. Makes me sad every time I walk by her room.

Mine is a junior in HS so just getting this process started, but I'm already dreading this day.

Pretty sure I'm going to move just to not have that empty room thing, especially since I work from home and her room is directly across the hall from my office.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Applications in at four schools, with five more to go. This process is a real grind!

do all 9 require additional essays?

 

[bigbottom]

do all 9 require additional essays?

The two that don’t require additional essays are two of the four we’ve submitted. So all of the remaining five involve more essays. I think he has nine more essays to go. 

 

[SFBayDuck]

Went to a financial aid seminar last night at my (Junior) daughter's school.  Mostly a dude pitching his services here in our obscenely rich county to help people minimize the Expected Family Contribution that the FAFSA spits out.  But there was some good info in there for a much more middle class guy like me just starting the process.

He talked about the Total Cost of Attendance - EFC = Award formula, and that the "% of Award Met" for a school is hugely important.  Knowing that before you start visiting schools is key so the kid doesn't fall in love with a place that we won't be able to afford.  He said he of course had that info in his database, and that you might be able to find it elsewhere like Princetonreview.com.  But in poking around there I haven't found that metric yet (just their "Financial Aid Rating").  Anyone have a good source for that metric?  

 

[bigbottom]

In the “water is wet” category, a recent study of Harvard admissions statistics shows that if you’re a white kid, you’d better be a legacy, a recruited athlete or the child of a donor or faculty member if you want to gain admission to one of the elite institutions. 

https://slate.com/business/2019/09/harvard-admissions-affirmative-action-white-students-legacy-athletes-donors.html

This is also further evidence why the average test scores, GPAs etc. of admitted students reported by these and other schools are often totally misleading. 

 

[The_Man]

In the “water is wet” category, a recent study of Harvard admissions statistics shows that if you’re a white kid, you’d better be a legacy, a recruited athlete or the child of a donor or faculty member if you want to gain admission to one of the elite institutions. 

https://slate.com/business/2019/09/harvard-admissions-affirmative-action-white-students-legacy-athletes-donors.html

This is also further evidence why the average test scores, GPAs etc. of admitted students reported by these and other schools are often totally misleading. 

Here's the post where I did my annual estimate of how many "unhooked" white kids got into Princeton last year. My guess was 283 boys and 283 girls.

Based on the story Biggie linked, let's do a quick estimate of the Harvard class of 2018 (admitted in 2014).

When that Class was admitted, here were the stats Harvard released:

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2014/03/college-admits-class-of-18/

2,023 accepted
12% African American
13% Latinx
19.7 Asian American
2% Native American
10% international students. 

That's 56.7% of the class, leaving 43.3% as white - 876 students. We now know that on average from 2014-2018, 43% of those 876 white students were legacy, athletes, or donors. That's 377 kids. Subtract those 377 from the 876 white students and you are left with 499 "ordinary" white kids who got into Harvard in 2014. So 250 boys and 249 girls in the entire USA. Makes my Princeton estimate look pretty good!

It's probably only gotten harder since then, as the surge in acceptance for "First Generation" college students is eating away even further at the spots left available for typical middle/upper middle class kids.

I will say that I don't have a huge problem with how the elite schools fill their classes. They are private institutions with their own goals and priorities and can enroll whatever students they think will help attain them. But I think people whose kids are going through the process right now should be aware that their son, for example, needs to be one of the top 300-400 male high school students in the entire country to have a realistic shot at getting in. 

I also think this trend is going to ultimately whittle down the impact of earning an undergraduate degree from one of these schools. The amazing kids that used to get into HYP but can't anymore are now going elsewhere and elevating those other colleges. And the kids populating the HYP classrooms - while still worthy applicants - aren't necessarily the most meritorious representative of their age cohort, as they used to be. At this point, you will find plenty of kids in college classrooms across the USA that are the equal of those currently enrolled at Harvard and Yale. Just my two cents.

 

[bigbottom]

Here's the post where I did my annual estimate of how many "unhooked" white kids got into Princeton last year. My guess was 283 boys and 283 girls.

Based on the story Biggie linked, let's do a quick estimate of the Harvard class of 2018 (admitted in 2014).

When that Class was admitted, here were the stats Harvard released:

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2014/03/college-admits-class-of-18/

2,023 accepted
12% African American
13% Latinx
19.7 Asian American
2% Native American
10% international students. 

That's 56.7% of the class, leaving 43.3% as white - 876 students. We now know that on average from 2014-2018, 43% of those 876 white students were legacy, athletes, or donors. That's 377 kids. Subtract those 377 from the 876 white students and you are left with 499 "ordinary" white kids who got into Harvard in 2014. So 250 boys and 249 girls in the entire USA. Makes my Princeton estimate look pretty good!

It's probably only gotten harder since then, as the surge in acceptance for "First Generation" college students is eating away even further at the spots left available for typical middle/upper middle class kids.

I will say that I don't have a huge problem with how the elite schools fill their classes. They are private institutions with their own goals and priorities and can enroll whatever students they think will help attain them. But I think people whose kids are going through the process right now should be aware that their son, for example, needs to be one of the top 300-400 male high school students in the entire country to have a realistic shot at getting in. 

I also think this trend is going to ultimately whittle down the impact of earning an undergraduate degree from one of these schools. The amazing kids that used to get into HYP but can't anymore are now going elsewhere and elevating those other colleges. And the kids populating the HYP classrooms - while still worthy applicants - aren't necessarily the most meritorious representative of their age cohort, as they used to be. At this point, you will find plenty of kids in college classrooms across the USA that are the equal of those currently enrolled at Harvard and Yale. Just my two cents.

You have been absolutely spot on with your posts in this thread, and your Princeton analysis was so eye-opening for me. What you and others have offered in this thread has absolutely impacted how my son, with our guidance, has approached the college application process. Given my son’s ACT scores and GPA, it would have been easy to conclude that he had an outside shot at getting into Ivy’s and other institutions at that level based on published admissions data. But the info from you and others, combined with the data from Naviance, helped put all of this in context for our son, an “unhooked” (mostly) white kid, as you put it. As a result, we were able to design a strategy that is far more realistic and likely to yield positive results. Honestly, I can’t thank you enough. 

 

[GroveDiesel]

These drop-off stories are filling me with dread. Our son is currently a senior and will be leaving for school a year from now. As many of you know, our oldest son died of cancer at the age of 13.  He was in 8th grade and his younger brother was in 6th. In addition to our foundation, my wife and I filled the giant hole in our lives by focusing all our attention on our son, to make sure that he was coping well and doing well. When he leaves next year, and we become empty nesters, I have a feeling we will be residually mourning the loss of Chance once again.  It’s going to be rough. 

It's never too early to reach out to a counselor. Going to be a whole lot to process.

 

[bigbottom]

It's never too early to reach out to a counselor. Going to be a whole lot to process.

Thank you for your thoughtfulness. My wife has been seeing a grief counselor for nearly six years (continuously since Chance passed).  I went to the counselor twice and then stopped. It felt far more painful to talk about it than to just process it on my own. Not 100% sure that was the right decision. But I’ll definitely keep your suggestion in mind and stay open to it if things get dark. Thank you again. 

 

[The_Man]

You have been absolutely spot on with your posts in this thread, and your Princeton analysis was so eye-opening for me. What you and others have offered in this thread has absolutely impacted how my son, with our guidance, has approached the college application process. Given my son’s ACT scores and GPA, it would have been easy to conclude that he had an outside shot at getting into Ivy’s and other institutions at that level based on published admissions data. But the info from you and others, combined with the data from Naviance, helped put all of this in context for our son, an “unhooked” (mostly) white kid, as you put it. As a result, we were able to design a strategy that is far more realistic and likely to yield positive results. Honestly, I can’t thank you enough. 

Thanks for those very kind words! Your son will have a lot of excellent choices and I'm excited to see where he ends up.

Not looking forward to going through this again with kid #2, currently a junior. He's a great kid but definitely not the same on paper as his older brother - PSAT coming up in about a month and that will give us some realistic parameters for the search. On the bright side, he's pretty open to liberal arts colleges (which his brother wasn't) and that opens up a much wider world of great schools.

The advice I give people now is that this process is really about fit in two ways. Find the school that fits your kid's interests and personality, but also find the school where your kid fits the admissions parameters. It feels like no one is getting into their "reach" schools AT ALL because so few spots are available. So rather than spend so much time, effort and energy on those unattainable spots, focus on the schools that your kid would be happy to attend and that would be happy to have your kid attend.

And that is where ED comes in. More than ever, it's the one card an applicant has to play - but you have to be so strategic about it. It used to be your ED card might get you into a school one or two rungs up the ladder from where you might otherwise have been accepted. Now, I don't think it moves you up, but it does lock you in for a spot at a school where you "fit" the accepted student profile. And that spot might not be there for you in Regular Decision. I think that's going to be the hardest part for my younger kid - he's going to want to shoot high with ED and I'm going to be pushing very hard to shoot at an attainable target. We'll see.

 

[Nigel]

And that is where ED comes in. More than ever, it's the one card an applicant has to play - but you have to be so strategic about it. It used to be your ED card might get you into a school one or two rungs up the ladder from where you might otherwise have been accepted. Now, I don't think it moves you up, but it does lock you in for a spot at a school where you "fit" the accepted student profile. And that spot might not be there for you in Regular Decision. I think that's going to be the hardest part for my younger kid - he's going to want to shoot high with ED and I'm going to be pushing very hard to shoot at an attainable target. We'll see.

This is great advice. Since her #1 choice (Georgetown) didn't offer it, my daughter never played this card. Little did we know she had virtually zero shot of getting into G'Town, despite all of her stats suggesting otherwise. She beat herself up for months for not using it at Northwestern, where she ended up waitlisted RD, and where there is like a 3x better chance of being accepted when applying ED vs RD. If your kid is 100% sure they will be happy at a particular school that is a borderline reach, even if it is half a notch below their dream school/more of a reach, use it.  

In the end my daughter couldn't have landed in a better place than she did - she's never been as happy and as engaged in all aspects of life as she is now at Claremont McKenna. We didn't know it a year ago, but it truly should have been her first choice all along. As painful a process as it was I'm so damn thankful it played out like it did, rejections and all.

 

[bigbottom]

Thanks for those very kind words! Your son will have a lot of excellent choices and I'm excited to see where he ends up.

Not looking forward to going through this again with kid #2, currently a junior. He's a great kid but definitely not the same on paper as his older brother - PSAT coming up in about a month and that will give us some realistic parameters for the search. On the bright side, he's pretty open to liberal arts colleges (which his brother wasn't) and that opens up a much wider world of great schools.

The advice I give people now is that this process is really about fit in two ways. Find the school that fits your kid's interests and personality, but also find the school where your kid fits the admissions parameters. It feels like no one is getting into their "reach" schools AT ALL because so few spots are available. So rather than spend so much time, effort and energy on those unattainable spots, focus on the schools that your kid would be happy to attend and that would be happy to have your kid attend.

And that is where ED comes in. More than ever, it's the one card an applicant has to play - but you have to be so strategic about it. It used to be your ED card might get you into a school one or two rungs up the ladder from where you might otherwise have been accepted. Now, I don't think it moves you up, but it does lock you in for a spot at a school where you "fit" the accepted student profile. And that spot might not be there for you in Regular Decision. I think that's going to be the hardest part for my younger kid - he's going to want to shoot high with ED and I'm going to be pushing very hard to shoot at an attainable target. We'll see.

I hear you on ED.  Unfortunately for my son, neither his #1 nor #2 choices offer ED, so he's not doing ED at all.  However, he is doing Restricted Early Action at his #2 choice, which you can only do if you are NOT doing ED at another school.

 

[SofaKings]

I think my daughter just hit the send button on her 10th application.  Looking for direct admit to nursing programs.  Wife is on top of it thank goodness.

 

[bigbottom]

How is everyone doing?  We’re entering crunch time over here. My kid is finalizing the list of colleges to which he will apply and working on his essays. Resume is almost finalized. Done with the ACT but retaking the SAT Math 2 and SAT Physics subject tests at the end of this month to see if he can improve his scores some more (initial scores not really high enough to materially improve his chances of admission at the competitive schools). These next three months are going to be a GRIND. 

P.S.  He broke up with his girlfriend a few weeks ago, so he should have fewer distractions this semester. I guess that’s good. 

As an update, he did decent on the Math II and Physics SAT Subject tests, but not well enough for us to submit them (because his ACT was as high as it was, the Subject Test Scores would only water it down). Actually, the Math II score was probably high enough to submit, but because most kids take 2-3, only submitting 1 score would lead schools to conclude he didn't do well on the others.  And since he is applying for engineering, they would wonder why he wasn't submitting a Physics test score.  So we're not submitting any.  That's sort of a bummer since he expended so much time and effort studying for them.  Oh well.

 

[SFBayDuck]

Went to a financial aid seminar last night at my (Junior) daughter's school.  Mostly a dude pitching his services here in our obscenely rich county to help people minimize the Expected Family Contribution that the FAFSA spits out.  But there was some good info in there for a much more middle class guy like me just starting the process.

He talked about the Total Cost of Attendance - EFC = Award formula, and that the "% of Award Met" for a school is hugely important.  Knowing that before you start visiting schools is key so the kid doesn't fall in love with a place that we won't be able to afford.  He said he of course had that info in his database, and that you might be able to find it elsewhere like Princetonreview.com.  But in poking around there I haven't found that metric yet (just their "Financial Aid Rating").  Anyone have a good source for that metric?  

Bump, anyone have a good source for this?  Is he even correct in suggesting that this is one of the more important metrics to look into?  Seems like it, but again I'm just getting started on this whole process.

 

[Galileo]

As an update, he did decent on the Math II and Physics SAT Subject tests, but not well enough for us to submit them (because his ACT was as high as it was, the Subject Test Scores would only water it down). Actually, the Math II score was probably high enough to submit, but because most kids take 2-3, only submitting 1 score would lead schools to conclude he didn't do well on the others.  And since he is applying for engineering, they would wonder why he wasn't submitting a Physics test score.  So we're not submitting any.  That's sort of a bummer since he expended so much time and effort studying for them.  Oh well.

I'll take the Physics Test for him for a small fee...  

 

[bigbottom]

I'll take the Physics Test for him for a small fee...  

Only if I get to be Lori Louglin’s cell mate!

 

[GStrot]

where there is like a 3x better chance of being accepted when applying ED vs RD. If your kid is 100% sure they will be happy at a particular school that is a borderline reach, even if it is half a notch below their dream school/more of a reach, use it. 

Actually, this is not true anymore (if it ever was).  It’s true that the applicants that apply ED get in at a higher rate than the RD applicants.  But, more and more, the ED pool is a much higher quality pool than the RD pool.  In talking to schools like Northwestern and Notre Dame, they are telling the borderline reach applicants to go regular decision to be in a pool of applicants where they will compare more favorably.  The rockstars are using ED to lock in a top 25 school since they are all a crapshoot now.  The reach applicants don’t get an advantage from ED and it may be a disadvantage as they are not comparable to the ED applicants.  

 

[bigbottom]

Actually, this is not true anymore (if it ever was).  It’s true that the applicants that apply ED get in at a higher rate than the RD applicants.  But, more and more, the ED pool is a much higher quality pool than the RD pool.  In talking to schools like Northwestern and Notre Dame, they are telling the borderline reach applicants to go regular decision to be in a pool of applicants where they will compare more favorably.  The rockstars are using ED to lock in a top 25 school since they are all a crapshoot now.  The reach applicants don’t get an advantage from ED and it may be a disadvantage as they are not comparable to the ED applicants.  

Notre Dame doesn’t have ED, but you’re right that they’re encouraging only the more competitive applicants to apply Restrictive Early Action. 

 

[bigbottom]

Wow, that is quite the resume. I can’t imagine that volunteer hours and the like are going to make one lick of difference. Notwithstanding the info that has been shared here, it sounds like your daughter is one of the few that would be in the running to be accepted at all the top US schools. That said, if it’s not a fit, it’s not a fit.  Very exciting times. Please keep us posted on her search and where she ends up. 

 

[Yankee23Fan]

I've been meaning to post more here. My oldest has locked in to the schools he wants to go to. Given his chosen major we don't have a ton of options so we have 3 solid choices, 1 fall back and 1 reach. I'm good with that.

Because of what he wants to do and some of the limitations our school had we've transitioned him out of high school and he is going to community college to finish his diploma and knock out the first 2 years of a 4 year degree at the same time. Tons cheaper. It's working well so far.

But the reason for my post; I have his college app linked to me so I see everything. And the amount of kids posting to the message boards looking for friends, someone to talk to, someone to eat lunch with or just sit with in between classes is startling and sad. These kids are asking for friends. They are putting themselves out there asking for it.

Another related point; on his first day my son was scared to death so he asked me to stay on campus all day so he knew I was there. There is nothing about me that screams college professor at all. Yet at least 2 dozen kids walked up to me and asked for help; where is this building,  where is this, how do I do this.  Almost like I was campus dad. I wanted to walk each of them to where they were going and tell them it was going to be ok.

We hit this generation too much. They know they need human interaction and friends. They want parental guidance.  And they are brave enough to ask for it. We need to listen to them more. They need the grown ups to be the grown ups.

Off my soapbox. Just needed to share.

 

[The_Man]

She’s a junior, ranked first in her class, has won a national math competition, her PSAT score last year would have qualified for National Merit Semifinalist, she retook the ACT and improved to 36, is part of a cohort that had a project for their Energy & Sustainability class last spring escalate to a patent pending on it.  But since she’s not a legacy, a recruited athlete, tied closely to a wealthy donor, nor a first-generation college student, and weak in areas like volunteer hours and other bull#### designed to keep the working class out, she’s probably not going to get into a top 30 college here.  And if she did, it would likely be at a total cost of attendance rate in the $60-$70K range.  We would likely pay half that for Cambridge, King’s College, Lund, even less in Germany or Spain.  And because their admissions processes don’t reserve a bunch of slots for jocks and legacies and don’t weigh extracurriculars heavily like USA schools, she’s got a much better chance of admission overseas than here.  
(She also doesn’t have a ton of faith in USA’s willingness to be a future world leader in areas she’s passionate about, so she isn’t planning under the assumption she will continue to live in the USA once she’s on her own, a view I respect.)

I agree with Biggie that she sounds amazing and would actually be a very strong candidate at all but the Harvard-Yale-Princeton-Stanford top of the pyramid, especially if she applied ED. She would also be a strong contender for merit aid at a lot of schools. But good for you and her to realize that the process is about finding the right fit. Not to mention, if you apply ED then you are locking yourself into whatever the college decides you can pay.

In the UK, maybe consider St. Andrews, University of Edinburgh, and Durham University. I know kids who went to each of these schools and loved them. There's also McGill in Montreal or University of Toronto. 

Another important thing to remember is that getting into college is just the beginning, not the end. Sounds like she will be ready to succeed at a high level once she gets where she's going, just like Nigel's daughter. Congrats on raising such a great kid - keep us posted!

 

[stbugs]

I've been meaning to post more here. My oldest has locked in to the schools he wants to go to. Given his chosen major we don't have a ton of options so we have 3 solid choices, 1 fall back and 1 reach. I'm good with that.

Because of what he wants to do and some of the limitations our school had we've transitioned him out of high school and he is going to community college to finish his diploma and knock out the first 2 years of a 4 year degree at the same time. Tons cheaper. It's working well so far.

But the reason for my post; I have his college app linked to me so I see everything. And the amount of kids posting to the message boards looking for friends, someone to talk to, someone to eat lunch with or just sit with in between classes is startling and sad. These kids are asking for friends. They are putting themselves out there asking for it.

Another related point; on his first day my son was scared to death so he asked me to stay on campus all day so he knew I was there. There is nothing about me that screams college professor at all. Yet at least 2 dozen kids walked up to me and asked for help; where is this building,  where is this, how do I do this.  Almost like I was campus dad. I wanted to walk each of them to where they were going and tell them it was going to be ok.

We hit this generation too much. They know they need human interaction and friends. They want parental guidance.  And they are brave enough to ask for it. We need to listen to them more. They need the grown ups to be the grown ups.

Off my soapbox. Just needed to share.

Interesting. I think I’m some cases I’ve seen the opposite. Too much parental guidance. My son’s roommate bailed on college the day of the move in and he was an only child and he had talked to my son a bunch and my wife chatted with his wife. My wife’s seen parents posting about trials and tribulations for their kids that should be what their kids are doing.

What you posted to me seems maybe more like too much parental involvement and not enough making the kid more responsible. I know parents of 9th graders still basically making play dates if you will by controlling who their kids hang out with and guess what, they’re not as popular. What’s going to happen at school when they need to reach out and make friends? Kids can’t find the building? I googled every building during orientation with my son.

I think too much coddling, please don’t take it personally all kids are different, in general leads to kids like you mentioned that can’t be without parents or don’t know where to go for resources or can’t just sit down next to other kids just as new and say hello.

My son knew (not close friends) two or three people from his HS when he started at Clemson, which is not a small school, and his non-roommate. I could tell he was nervous but he’s been given responsibility (studying, work, driving, etc.) for a while so he’s good on his own. He’s doing great, almost all As (I still stay on him on grades, it worked in HS) and has a great group of friends who hung out with his HS friends who crashed his now huge single. I watched all of them getting tipsy at the tailgate for parents weekend. It’s amazing how much I drank at college and how much of an urge as a parent that I have to warn him about everything.

Hypocrisy at its finest but I’m pretty honest with him and want him to know the pitfalls but I don’t want to clear the path for him or he won’t be able to handle the real world.

 

[bigbottom]

What you posted to me seems maybe more like too much parental involvement and not enough making the kid more responsible. I know parents of 9th graders still basically making play dates if you will by controlling who their kids hang out with and guess what, they’re not as popular. What’s going to happen at school when they need to reach out and make friends? Kids can’t find the building? I googled every building during orientation with my son.

I think too much coddling, please don’t take it personally all kids are different, in general leads to kids like you mentioned that can’t be without parents or don’t know where to go for resources or can’t just sit down next to other kids just as new and say hello.

I can see both sides of this discussion.  But what I think Yank is describing is kids taking it upon themselves to find ways to meet their needs.  Don't know where to go on the first day of class?  Ask someone.  Interested in meeting other kids at school for social interaction?  Reach out.  Isn't the message board communication really just a modern day version of your "just sit down next to other kids just as new and say hello"?  Kids aren't paralyzed - they appear to be problem-solvers.

As for Yank’s kid wanting his dad to hang around campus on the first day, I think that's understandable given that he's a highschooler on a college campus for the first time with kids who are all older than he is.

 

[Bull Dozier]

My senior is driving me nuts.  I feel like we are behind the 8 ball in this process.  He bombed his ACT, so he is going to a tutor and has it scheduled again for October.

He changes his mind on a regular basis on what he wants to do, and his criteria changes on a regular basis.  I fear he's just going to go for the path of least resistance, which will mean going to the school his sister went to.  That wouldn't be the worst thing in the world (NDSU), but I want him to have his own experience and forge his own path through life.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Interesting. I think I’m some cases I’ve seen the opposite. Too much parental guidance. My son’s roommate bailed on college the day of the move in and he was an only child and he had talked to my son a bunch and my wife chatted with his wife. My wife’s seen parents posting about trials and tribulations for their kids that should be what their kids are doing.

What you posted to me seems maybe more like too much parental involvement and not enough making the kid more responsible. I know parents of 9th graders still basically making play dates if you will by controlling who their kids hang out with and guess what, they’re not as popular. What’s going to happen at school when they need to reach out and make friends? Kids can’t find the building? I googled every building during orientation with my son.

I think too much coddling, please don’t take it personally all kids are different, in general leads to kids like you mentioned that can’t be without parents or don’t know where to go for resources or can’t just sit down next to other kids just as new and say hello.

My son knew (not close friends) two or three people from his HS when he started at Clemson, which is not a small school, and his non-roommate. I could tell he was nervous but he’s been given responsibility (studying, work, driving, etc.) for a while so he’s good on his own. He’s doing great, almost all As (I still stay on him on grades, it worked in HS) and has a great group of friends who hung out with his HS friends who crashed his now huge single. I watched all of them getting tipsy at the tailgate for parents weekend. It’s amazing how much I drank at college and how much of an urge as a parent that I have to warn him about everything.

Hypocrisy at its finest but I’m pretty honest with him and want him to know the pitfalls but I don’t want to clear the path for him or he won’t be able to handle the real world.

You could be right.  It didn't seem that way to me and more like you in my parenting.  I know this - on any level, at any age, in any environment, it takes a level of bravery and courage to ask for help or ask for a friend.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

I can see both sides of this discussion.  But what I think Ivan is describing is kids taking it upon themselves to find ways to meet their needs.  Don't know where to go on the first day of class?  Ask someone.  Interested in meeting other kids at school for social interaction?  Reach out.  Isn't the message board communication really just a modern day version of your "just sit down next to other kids just as new and say hello"?  Kids aren't paralyzed - they appear to be problem-solvers.

As for Ivan's kid wanting his dad to hang around campus on the first day, I think that's understandable given that he's a highschooler on a college campus for the first time with kids who are all older than he is.

That was me, but yeah. I just found the whole thing closer to sad than anything.

 

[bigbottom]

That was me, but yeah. I just found the whole thing closer to sad than anything.

Sorry. Brain fart and typing too fast. 

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Sorry. Brain fart and typing too fast. 

All good.  Frankly, what's the difference between me an Ivan anyway...

 

[bigbottom]

All good.  Frankly, what's the difference between me an Ivan anyway...

Both of you are good guys, but I’m still mortified. 

 

[Lomez]

Just wanted to say thanks for your contributions to this thread.  Inferences we’ve drawn from your insight is one of many reasons we’ve decided Europe is a better option for my daughter than the USA for undergraduate study.  
 

She’s a junior, ranked first in her class, has won a national math competition, her PSAT score last year would have qualified for National Merit Semifinalist, she retook the ACT and improved to 36, is part of a cohort that had a project for their Energy & Sustainability class last spring escalate to a patent pending on it.  But since she’s not a legacy, a recruited athlete, tied closely to a wealthy donor, nor a first-generation college student, and weak in areas like volunteer hours and other bull#### designed to keep the working class out, she’s probably not going to get into a top 30 college here.  And if she did, it would likely be at a total cost of attendance rate in the $60-$70K range.  We would likely pay half that for Cambridge, King’s College, Lund, even less in Germany or Spain.  And because their admissions processes don’t reserve a bunch of slots for jocks and legacies and don’t weigh extracurriculars heavily like USA schools, she’s got a much better chance of admission overseas than here.  
(She also doesn’t have a ton of faith in USA’s willingness to be a future world leader in areas she’s passionate about, so she isn’t planning under the assumption she will continue to live in the USA once she’s on her own, a view I respect.)

With Brexit coming we’re not sure in England is the way to go but wow she sure loves London and the English countryside.  We’re going to visit Lund and a couple other schools in Sweden and Northern Europe this summer.  (She’s fluent in Spanish and is messing around with an app to learn some Swedish, so language isn’t necessarily a barrier)

It’s been weird tossing aside those USA college guides after looking at them closely the last couple years.  She will still apply to a few schools here but not looking to add any USA schools to the list or go out of our way to visit campuses.
I think she will end up overseas, and it blows my mind that going this route will be a lot cheaper.

This is "#### that.  That's 30 minutes per dwarf" daughter?

 We're all getting old.