The Z Machine
Footballguy
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College Admissions Questions (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter NewlyRetired
- Start date
El Floppo
Footballguy
In at Occidental with great scholarship and aid package- makes it equivalent to UMiami. very doable.
Hoping the kid feels good about that- he's on his senior trip to the Bahamas and hopefully too drunk to notice.
USC came back with their package- kinda sorta doable. sorta.
this is all reminding me of him getting into private HS, except in reverse- he got into all the schools he applied to, but the FA went from "nope, still can't do that" to "I guess kinda sorta" to "hell yeah!". fortunately, the hell yeah was his top choice. We'll see on the 27th what happens, but so far the "hell yeahs" are his bottom choices. more bridges we'll hopefully get to cross in a bit. but feeling good about USC, which we'll make work somehow kinda sorta.
Hoping the kid feels good about that- he's on his senior trip to the Bahamas and hopefully too drunk to notice.
USC came back with their package- kinda sorta doable. sorta.
this is all reminding me of him getting into private HS, except in reverse- he got into all the schools he applied to, but the FA went from "nope, still can't do that" to "I guess kinda sorta" to "hell yeah!". fortunately, the hell yeah was his top choice. We'll see on the 27th what happens, but so far the "hell yeahs" are his bottom choices. more bridges we'll hopefully get to cross in a bit. but feeling good about USC, which we'll make work somehow kinda sorta.
El Floppo
Footballguy
thanks BB- will definitely take you up on that!
fwiw- he's also a musical theater and acapella guy, plus into songwriting, singing and accompanying people singing on piano. sounds like a ton of great opportunities for all of that there.
ericttspikes
Footballguy
Not sure this if the correct thread, but has anyone gotten letters recently about your kids grants and/or scholarships being rescinded because of what's happening in Washington? Friends kid goes to DePaul in Chicago and she just got a letter saying a total of $42k of grants and scholarships are going away.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
That's horrible.
Orange&Blue
Footballguy
my kids aren't old enough, but i know several people who have had this happen at other schools.
TennesseeJed
Footballguy
That seems a little off. I would have expected that most (all?) scholarships and grants from the school would be funded by the school’s endowment and not reliant on direct contributions from the Federal Government - Pell grants excepted.
I would have expected that any of the federal grant money for research- which seems most at risk right now - would not have been used for Undergraduate scholarships. Certainly some graduate programs that rely on such funding would be at risk though.
ETA - having said that a quick google of DePaul Financial Aid shows that their office currently has a 1.2 out of 5 rating on Google, so something is clearly amiss there
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Oracle
Footballguy
This is currently going on at schools (at least at Harvard and MIT) for undergrad, masters and PhD programs. In early February, MIT was notified that some of the government awarded funds that are due to them were on hold (most funds have been released at the point). This included all awards from Department of Energy, Department of Defense, NSF, NIH etc. MIT and Harvard have both came out and said that they will unlock the coffers to make up for as much as they can.
Oddly enough, my daughter’s advisor at MIT was approached by Universities in Germany, U.K., and Switzerland offering to pay to move the whole program to the that particular country.
Oracle
Footballguy
NSF provides grants/ awards for undergrad programs, masters programs, and PhD programs.
TennesseeJed
Footballguy
Interesting, I assumed the NSF grants were for specific research as opposed to general education scholarships.
El Floppo
Footballguy
In at Boston U w presidential scholarship.
We're going to know pretty much everything by the end of this week.
Really hoping he has an opportunity at one of his favorite options. Very proud of this kid, regardless.
Congrats! Two of my daughter's closest friends will be going to BU next year.
One piece of advice that I don't think I've seen posted here (or anywhere else for that matter), for those with kids who are still relatively early in high school...they should go out of their way to get to know their guidance counselors really well. I think this is especially important for kids who are doing well in school and will be applying to highly competitive colleges. My daughters both did this and I think it had a very large impact on some of the opportunities they got as high school progressed, and ultimately on their ability to get into colleges. The most direct benefits that I think can be attributed to their relationships with guidance counselors:
- Opportunities for awards and for participation in prestigious, free academic programs
- Vastly superior recommendation letters
bigbottom
Footballguy
Did your son go on an official tour of Northeastern?
El Floppo
Footballguy
bigbottom
Footballguy
HFS!!!
El Floppo
Footballguy
He got a ticket from USC to visit this weekend. That's apparently out.
The Dreaded Marco
Footballguy
Northeastern missed the boat.
bigbottom
Footballguy
I think that’s why they passed. They knew he’d be successful at the Ivies and they’d get turned down.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Also need aware, so not risking it on us poor folk in search of FA
Instinctive
Footballguy
I mean idk as much about undergrad but yield protection is very real in grad school so I believe it
I would have gone to Yale or Princeton in a heart beat if that had been a possibility. Giant congrats.
Nigel
Footballguy
Holy crap - congrats!!!
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Amazing, flops!!!!
El Floppo
Footballguy
Thanks (everyone)!
Yale always seemed like the right fit in terms of their curriculum and activities, and he's done a summer program there so is familiar with it. Kinda felt like his dream school. Plus it's basically a subway ride away.
But he never expected to get in to Princeton, so has to check it out more.
Also waiting on FA from everywhere but Brown (which was good)... So need to assess on that level too unfortunately. Also waiting to hear about Stanford today, which seemed impossible this time yesterday, but who knows now.
He was rejected by NYU on Wednesday, so we went into yesterday feeling less than confident. Then he opened Harvard first which didn't help the confidence level, but phew! He opened Columbia next and all of us cried when he saw the welcome video. I think my kid is incredible no matter who accepted or rejected him- always told him I was proud of him and knew he'd be fine in life even if he decided not to go college (or didn't get in anywhere). But Im still dumbfounded by all of this.
TennesseeJed
Footballguy
Ah, so happy for Floppino and Mrs Floppo too - I know how stressful the process can be.
Congrats GB - may the financial aid be everything you need/want!
Congrats GB - may the financial aid be everything you need/want!
TennesseeJed
Footballguy
I ran across the tweet this morning from a student who did not have a very successful application process - rejected at 15 of 18 schools.
On the face - pretty successful student - 4.0 GPA 34 ACT, started a business that had grown to $30M in annual revenues.
This was his personal statement essay:
And, we can debate whether the college decisions were fair or right - bottom line is he did not get into any of his top schools despite animpressive resume. But the broader point(s) are this:
1. When you are applying to top-20 schools - there are more qualified applicants than spots available. Top grades and top test scores are a dime a dozen for those schools. (To be fair, in this case the 34, is actually pretty average for these schools)
2. Your essay matters. A lot. I know @NewlyRetired has mentioned this a few times in the past, but it bears repeating for those who are going through this process in the future. Your grades and test scores don't allow you to stand out as much as you would think - that essay is your "interview" to tell the admissions counselors who you are, and why you are a good fit for their school. Make it count.
I actually came across this tweet via one of the responses:
I think that thread is well worth the time - in terms of pointing out the types of things that admissions staff are looking for in an essay:
On the face - pretty successful student - 4.0 GPA 34 ACT, started a business that had grown to $30M in annual revenues.
This was his personal statement essay:
And, we can debate whether the college decisions were fair or right - bottom line is he did not get into any of his top schools despite animpressive resume. But the broader point(s) are this:
1. When you are applying to top-20 schools - there are more qualified applicants than spots available. Top grades and top test scores are a dime a dozen for those schools. (To be fair, in this case the 34, is actually pretty average for these schools)
2. Your essay matters. A lot. I know @NewlyRetired has mentioned this a few times in the past, but it bears repeating for those who are going through this process in the future. Your grades and test scores don't allow you to stand out as much as you would think - that essay is your "interview" to tell the admissions counselors who you are, and why you are a good fit for their school. Make it count.
I actually came across this tweet via one of the responses:
I think that thread is well worth the time - in terms of pointing out the types of things that admissions staff are looking for in an essay:
For whatever it’s worth to Zach or other students, I’ve sat on Rhodes Scholarship committees & reviewed many elite apps.
This essay: (1) lapsed into hubris by the end of para #1, & (2) didn’t explain *why* Zach wants to learn from other humans, let alone at a particular uni.
No matter how impressive the application, painting oneself as a preternaturally gifted wunderkind who’s doing x or y elite university a favour by applying can turn off reviewers.Communicate confidence, curiosity & commitment to learning from/contributing to your new community.
We shouldn’t get the idea that you want x opportunity simply for the prestige—or, as Zach says in his concluding paragraph, because it will “elevate my work.”You need to explain how this opportunity will springboard you to fight the part of the world’s fight you’ve chosen.
Not because you decided on a whim whilst peregrinating around Kyoto that “hey, maybe this could elevate my work.”But because you have well-articulated reasons for why you’re a good match, and how this opportunity helps you achieve goals that can *elevate others.*
Statistically well-qualified applicants come a dime a dozen in elite admissions, more than most people realise.For every student w/ perfect scores like Zach, there’s a student w/ near perfect scores & more humility who’s overcome terrible circumstances & does not seem entitled.
Identify the corner of the world’s fight that you want to fight, why you’re the right one to do it, and why this uni or program is the best next step.Think of how your teachers & peers will challenge & enrich you—no matter how hallowed the halls you’ve already walked.
And don’t give your reviewers a reason to say “they’re already doing fine & don’t seem to have a strong case for wanting this.” If it’s logical to conclude that your goals might best be achieved outside the uni or program, don’t be surprised if that spot goes to someone else.
Replace pablum (eg: “we are all part of sth bigger”) with clear, specific, unique reasons that will convincingly show how this opportunity will help you fight your corner of the world’s fight.The realest parts of this felt hubristic & the least hubristic parts of it felt fake.
By the end of the 2nd para, I’d meant to say up top. “I rejected conventionality” is navel-gazing lay-up for the third paragraph, by which point a lot of readers will have started to get the ick for red flags. These include a tendency to exaggerate, and to solely credit oneself.
Show your goals’ origin story & deepest motives to reviewers.What motivated Zach to create a weight-loss app? What did helping ppl lose weight mean to him? Is this the corner of the world’s fight he wants to keep fighting? If so, why? And how will x uni help him fight better?
Imagine if Zach had a personal motivating experience that anchored him to that goal, and explained how such a young kid would’ve prioritised it.Maybe he or a parent struggled with weight. Maybe his best friends or community did.
Instead, it seems possible that his parents might’ve been well connected in Silicon Valley & sent him to enrichment coding camps that fed him these ideas. As a reviewer, we’re left guessing.That’s bc he’s not told us his corner of the world’s fight & how he came to choose it.
Imagine if Zach identified his fight as mobilising technology for public health—specifically to battle overweight & obesity.Imagine if we knew why Zach cares abt that in the first place.And imagine if Zach explained why x uni will equip him with a better toolkit to fight it.
Those elements would give us authentic narrative that explains:1) Why Zach chose to this fight when he was younger2) How he’s fighting it now, &3) How he will fight it better bc of attending this universityPersonal candour over pablum. Service of others over hubris of self.
Tbf, not all the schools Zach applied to were super elite. Assuming that he’s faithfully reporting admissions/rejections—and that his application actually showed his app exists @ works—I’d have expected him admitted to a couple more.My guess is the hubris turned off reviewers.
This essay: (1) lapsed into hubris by the end of para #1, & (2) didn’t explain *why* Zach wants to learn from other humans, let alone at a particular uni.
No matter how impressive the application, painting oneself as a preternaturally gifted wunderkind who’s doing x or y elite university a favour by applying can turn off reviewers.Communicate confidence, curiosity & commitment to learning from/contributing to your new community.
We shouldn’t get the idea that you want x opportunity simply for the prestige—or, as Zach says in his concluding paragraph, because it will “elevate my work.”You need to explain how this opportunity will springboard you to fight the part of the world’s fight you’ve chosen.
Not because you decided on a whim whilst peregrinating around Kyoto that “hey, maybe this could elevate my work.”But because you have well-articulated reasons for why you’re a good match, and how this opportunity helps you achieve goals that can *elevate others.*
Statistically well-qualified applicants come a dime a dozen in elite admissions, more than most people realise.For every student w/ perfect scores like Zach, there’s a student w/ near perfect scores & more humility who’s overcome terrible circumstances & does not seem entitled.
Identify the corner of the world’s fight that you want to fight, why you’re the right one to do it, and why this uni or program is the best next step.Think of how your teachers & peers will challenge & enrich you—no matter how hallowed the halls you’ve already walked.
And don’t give your reviewers a reason to say “they’re already doing fine & don’t seem to have a strong case for wanting this.” If it’s logical to conclude that your goals might best be achieved outside the uni or program, don’t be surprised if that spot goes to someone else.
Replace pablum (eg: “we are all part of sth bigger”) with clear, specific, unique reasons that will convincingly show how this opportunity will help you fight your corner of the world’s fight.The realest parts of this felt hubristic & the least hubristic parts of it felt fake.
By the end of the 2nd para, I’d meant to say up top. “I rejected conventionality” is navel-gazing lay-up for the third paragraph, by which point a lot of readers will have started to get the ick for red flags. These include a tendency to exaggerate, and to solely credit oneself.
Show your goals’ origin story & deepest motives to reviewers.What motivated Zach to create a weight-loss app? What did helping ppl lose weight mean to him? Is this the corner of the world’s fight he wants to keep fighting? If so, why? And how will x uni help him fight better?
Imagine if Zach had a personal motivating experience that anchored him to that goal, and explained how such a young kid would’ve prioritised it.Maybe he or a parent struggled with weight. Maybe his best friends or community did.
Instead, it seems possible that his parents might’ve been well connected in Silicon Valley & sent him to enrichment coding camps that fed him these ideas. As a reviewer, we’re left guessing.That’s bc he’s not told us his corner of the world’s fight & how he came to choose it.
Imagine if Zach identified his fight as mobilising technology for public health—specifically to battle overweight & obesity.Imagine if we knew why Zach cares abt that in the first place.And imagine if Zach explained why x uni will equip him with a better toolkit to fight it.
Those elements would give us authentic narrative that explains:1) Why Zach chose to this fight when he was younger2) How he’s fighting it now, &3) How he will fight it better bc of attending this universityPersonal candour over pablum. Service of others over hubris of self.
Tbf, not all the schools Zach applied to were super elite. Assuming that he’s faithfully reporting admissions/rejections—and that his application actually showed his app exists @ works—I’d have expected him admitted to a couple more.My guess is the hubris turned off reviewers.
Do you know if that 4.0 GPA was weighted or unweighted? If weighted, that's no nearly good enough for top schools either. If unweighted but without much in the way of honors and/or AP classes, it's still not enough to get the job done.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I remind my daughter every so often that she wrote a single essay that saved us ~$300k dollars. I am still not sure she comprehends what she did with one short essay.
There was no bigger gap for me as a parent between going into the process and exiting the process than understanding how important the essay was. I had just assumed it was a filler in a way when the process started.
Once we finished the process I realized (via my own experience and via some very helpful advice in this thread) these two huge items
1) The essay can absolutely tank the entire process if you write a poor one. And poor is subjective based on quality of school you are applying to. And I don't mean illegible when saying poor. There are many essays that are properly written but the message to the college is subjectively "poor"
2) Since so many applications look identical, the essay is used as a tie breaker in 2 distinct cases:
a) determine whether you will get into said college/university
b) determine who will be getting what levels of scholarships
El Floppo
Footballguy
the kid is amazing... and I know he covers it ever so slightly in the essay, but honestly doesn't need college. and the essay comes across that way. he compared himself to Jobs without an inkling of the hubris involved.I ran across the tweet this morning from a student who did not have a very successful application process - rejected at 15 of 18 schools.
On the face - pretty successful student - 4.0 GPA 34 ACT, started a business that had grown to $30M in annual revenues.
This was his personal statement essay:
And, we can debate whether the college decisions were fair or right - bottom line is he did not get into any of his top schools despite animpressive resume. But the broader point(s) are this:
1. When you are applying to top-20 schools - there are more qualified applicants than spots available. Top grades and top test scores are a dime a dozen for those schools. (To be fair, in this case the 34, is actually pretty average for these schools)
2. Your essay matters. A lot. I know @NewlyRetired has mentioned this a few times in the past, but it bears repeating for those who are going through this process in the future. Your grades and test scores don't allow you to stand out as much as you would think - that essay is your "interview" to tell the admissions counselors who you are, and why you are a good fit for their school. Make it count.
I actually came across this tweet via one of the responses:
I think that thread is well worth the time - in terms of pointing out the types of things that admissions staff are looking for in an essay:
For whatever it’s worth to Zach or other students, I’ve sat on Rhodes Scholarship committees & reviewed many elite apps.
This essay: (1) lapsed into hubris by the end of para #1, & (2) didn’t explain *why* Zach wants to learn from other humans, let alone at a particular uni.
No matter how impressive the application, painting oneself as a preternaturally gifted wunderkind who’s doing x or y elite university a favour by applying can turn off reviewers.Communicate confidence, curiosity & commitment to learning from/contributing to your new community.
We shouldn’t get the idea that you want x opportunity simply for the prestige—or, as Zach says in his concluding paragraph, because it will “elevate my work.”You need to explain how this opportunity will springboard you to fight the part of the world’s fight you’ve chosen.
Not because you decided on a whim whilst peregrinating around Kyoto that “hey, maybe this could elevate my work.”But because you have well-articulated reasons for why you’re a good match, and how this opportunity helps you achieve goals that can *elevate others.*
Statistically well-qualified applicants come a dime a dozen in elite admissions, more than most people realise.For every student w/ perfect scores like Zach, there’s a student w/ near perfect scores & more humility who’s overcome terrible circumstances & does not seem entitled.
Identify the corner of the world’s fight that you want to fight, why you’re the right one to do it, and why this uni or program is the best next step.Think of how your teachers & peers will challenge & enrich you—no matter how hallowed the halls you’ve already walked.
And don’t give your reviewers a reason to say “they’re already doing fine & don’t seem to have a strong case for wanting this.” If it’s logical to conclude that your goals might best be achieved outside the uni or program, don’t be surprised if that spot goes to someone else.
Replace pablum (eg: “we are all part of sth bigger”) with clear, specific, unique reasons that will convincingly show how this opportunity will help you fight your corner of the world’s fight.The realest parts of this felt hubristic & the least hubristic parts of it felt fake.
By the end of the 2nd para, I’d meant to say up top. “I rejected conventionality” is navel-gazing lay-up for the third paragraph, by which point a lot of readers will have started to get the ick for red flags. These include a tendency to exaggerate, and to solely credit oneself.
Show your goals’ origin story & deepest motives to reviewers.What motivated Zach to create a weight-loss app? What did helping ppl lose weight mean to him? Is this the corner of the world’s fight he wants to keep fighting? If so, why? And how will x uni help him fight better?
Imagine if Zach had a personal motivating experience that anchored him to that goal, and explained how such a young kid would’ve prioritised it.Maybe he or a parent struggled with weight. Maybe his best friends or community did.
Instead, it seems possible that his parents might’ve been well connected in Silicon Valley & sent him to enrichment coding camps that fed him these ideas. As a reviewer, we’re left guessing.That’s bc he’s not told us his corner of the world’s fight & how he came to choose it.
Imagine if Zach identified his fight as mobilising technology for public health—specifically to battle overweight & obesity.Imagine if we knew why Zach cares abt that in the first place.And imagine if Zach explained why x uni will equip him with a better toolkit to fight it.
Those elements would give us authentic narrative that explains:1) Why Zach chose to this fight when he was younger2) How he’s fighting it now, &3) How he will fight it better bc of attending this universityPersonal candour over pablum. Service of others over hubris of self.
Tbf, not all the schools Zach applied to were super elite. Assuming that he’s faithfully reporting admissions/rejections—and that his application actually showed his app exists @ works—I’d have expected him admitted to a couple more.My guess is the hubris turned off reviewers.
but if he doesn't need college- say, as his starting point- he better do a much better job explaining why he does, what he'll bring to his peers, what specifically he'll bring to colleges and their community and what specifically he hopes to get from college.
I just saw something from Brown or MIT admissions saying they were looking for people who didn't just have an exhibited passion, but understood how that passion related to the world- whether it was socially, interdisciplinarily or otherwise. this kid could have talked more about the benefits his ap created, instead of using it as a throwaway line to boast about profits. or he could've boasted about profits and what those profits would be used for- growing the ap to help more people or anything else other than "look at me- I made bank as a kid" .
And tbh, that is still really impressive... but honestly- he didn't do a proper job explaining the shift from "don't need it" to "need it" regarding college... other than a couple more throwaway lines at the end talking about learning from people. it all read as a not so humble brag piece and if I were in admissions, wouldn't think the kid was serious about college in general, let alone my specific college.
Just answered my own question - unweighted, although unclear what classes he took from the little bit of the thread I read through.
That said, I kind of think the people in the thread claiming his essay was bad are fos...that's a pretty good essay, although it doesn't give a lot of "why" (why did he not want to conform? why did he start the business that he did?) That said, the essay has a hint of arrogance, and reading through his responses in the thread, he comes across as very arrogant...I suspect that may have showed through in other parts of his application, other essays he wrote, or if anyone took a look at his social media accounts.
Also, while the amount of revenue that his business generated SHOULD impress admissions officers, I suspect that most of them care much more about the story of the business than the metrics that show that it was incredibly successful. This has been a suspicion of mine for a while...doesn't really matter if your accomplishments are fluff, just matters if you can tell a good story about them (for purposes of college admission). Whether the metrics are good or bad won't have any real impact.
El Floppo
Footballguy
another thing we heard repeatedly from admissions folk- colleges are trying to create communities... not one type of kid with all top scores/grades/etc... but a rich mixture of kids. part of why, according to them, they're looking for kids that will be active participants in those communities- not just somebody looking to take from them for their own gains/goals.
TennesseeJed
Footballguy
I ddi not keep up with the tweet thread - I know the young man was responding in it - but I wonder if he is even going to go to college? And, that may have played a role in some of the admission decisions.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Lucked out for my 3rd kid. Wife works in Jefferson Health System and they pay 50% tuition for dependents and the University gave a 50% scholarship so not paying tuition for kid #3. Just have to cover room/board/expenses for the first year.
Nigel
Footballguy
Congrats! Does that 50% benefit apply to whatever school #3 chose?
El Floppo
Footballguy
Holy crap... Yale is basically paying him to go with what they've offered. Way beyond what all the calculators showed.
Of course, now he thinks he wants to go to Princeton (no FA offer yet).
Next year's FA will involve my mom's estate, so will undoubtedly go up a lot. Double whammy of losing my mom and the FA for poor folks.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Sorry about your mom, flops.
Is there any way to "hide" it from FAFSA or whatever aid calalculator that they use? Like somehow transfer it to your brother and then get it back 3 yrs later? Or buy gold bars and store them in a vault in Geneva?
I just read this:
- Personal possessions and household goods. Clothing, furniture, electronic equipment, personal computers, appliances, cars, boats, and other personal possessions and household goods are not reported as assets on the FAFSA and CSS Profile.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Good ideas, man... Thanks.
Maybe Wheaties?
I kid... I know my wife has been fixated on this stuff (amazingly), so I'll run some of these ideas by her. We already shifted my mom's 529 plans for the kids into my mother's in laws name, so they wouldn't show on my records if they had gone to me.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
No, just Jefferson University since they are linked up with the Jefferson health system.
-fish-
Footballguy
Congratulations!
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