I hate stirring up trouble, but the following scenario happened in one of my leagues this week, and I'd like to know if this seems fishy to anyone else....Team A 3-2, Team B 1-4, and I believe the owners are related.Team A gives up RW2, Boldin and Driver for Priest Holmes from Team B.Team A now has THE Ricky Williams AND Priest at RB, as well as Coles and Toomer left at WR and is totally stacked.Team B now has RW2, Dominic Rhodes, and Duce Staley as his RBs!I talked to the commish about it, and after expressing some initial concerns, he is letting the trade stand. Does this seem like collusion/stacking to anyone else, or am I overreacting? Honest opinions would be appreciated.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Collusion? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Scrapper
- Start date
Genghis Khan
Footballguy
It doesn't pass the smell test.
Ron the Don
Footballguy
Who were Team B's WR's before the trade?
bigfishboy
Footballguy
Steel City Scrappers,I saw the trade and sent a message to the league. Then thought I would check the FBG's message boards to check the morning news. And look what I found, a thread from someone else in the league on the same trade.Our commish is well known for not meddling. I dont usually complain about these things but this looks pretty bad. Especially since the second to last team gave up the best FF player in the land.I know you can never predict what is going to happen in FF, but come on. Holmes for a backup RB that might start this week, a decent WR in Driver and a one game wonder in Boldin.The only thing I can figure is that the trade was supposed to be for the Real Ricky Williams and by mistake (or ?) RW2 was selected.
bigfishboy
Footballguy
Here are the roster after the trade, notice that after trading Priest Holmes, Team 1 has no viable RB's in a league that can start 3.Team 1Garcia, Jeff SFO QB 87.76 10 Vick, Michael ATL QB (O) 0.00 8 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rhodes, Dominic IND RB (P) 11.60 7 Staley, Duce PHI RB 18.90 3 Williams, Ricky IND RB 37.40 7 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Boldin, Anquan ARI WR 59.70 7 Bradford, Corey HOU WR 20.40 5 Driver, Donald GBP WR 22.70 8 Mason, Derrick TEN WR (Q) 41.40 9 Moss, Santana NYJ WR 30.00 5 Muhammad, Muhsin CAR WR 20.30 3 Randle El, Antwaan PIT WR 14.30 7 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gonzalez, Tony KCC TE 25.70 9 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carney, John NOS PK 29.30 10 Stover, Matt BAL PK 23.00 5 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rams, St. Louis STL DT 42.71 5 Redskins, Washington WAS DT 48.76 8 Steelers, Pittsburgh PIT DT 53.79 7 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Team 2Brady, Tom NEP QB (P) 71.78 10 Carr, David HOU QB 61.60 5 Johnson, Doug ATL QB 70.36 8 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Holmes, Priest KCC RB (P) 109.10 9 Smith, Emmitt ARI RB (O) 28.00 7 Williams, Ricky MIA RB 72.30 4 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Coles, Laveranues WAS WR 60.20 8 Hakim, Az-zahir DET WR 5.94 6 Price, Peerless ATL WR (Q) 36.10 8 Terrell, David CHI WR 12.80 3 Toomer, Amani NYG WR 46.30 4 Washington, Kelley CIN WR 6.40 6 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ricks, Mikhael DET TE 23.90 6 Sharpe, Shannon DEN TE (Q) 38.20 10 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edinger, Paul CHI PK 29.00 3 Hanson, Jason DET PK 28.00 6 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cowboys, Dallas DAL DT 59.51 3 Patriots, New England NEP DT 70.66 10
Our commish has talked to both owners, and apparently, Team B knew exactly which Ricky they were getting. Like I said, these two guys involved are related.I know our commish doesn't like to meddle, but this is a money league, and I'm concerned about fairness and competitive balance now.
Everwars Nerd
Footballguy
It sounds to me like the two teams have done a deal. You give me all your studs so that my team is stacked and we split the winnings at the end of the season. 
bigfishboy
Footballguy
I didn't know they were related also, that makes it smell even worse. My brother and I are in this same league together and would never have dreamed something like this up. Maybe we just aren't bright enough.And yes it is a money league and I am just as concerned about fairness. I pointed out that the commish doesn't like to meddle just to say that he errors on the side of letting things go. I think there must be a override procedure.
bigfishboy
Footballguy
The only way I could justify this trade is if team 1 had inside knowledge that James is out for the year and RW2 is the man.
bagger
Footballguy
ALERT. ALERT. THIS IS NOT A DRILL. THE SANDBAGGER ANTI-COLLUSION ACTIVATION SYSTEM HAS BEEN TRIGGEREDthis thread has triggered the sandbagger anti-collusion thread response©.
as always, this is not a collusive trade.
we now take you back to your regularly scheduled shark pool postings.
Patsfan2722
Footballguy
Nix it.
bigfishboy
Footballguy
If it looks like a fish, swims like a fish, and smells like a fish, it is probably a fish.Salmon Slammers
RKade
Footballguy
For what it's worth, we had a trade go through Sept 20th:Team A -- Traded Priest Holmes and Eric ParkerforTeam B -- Ahman Green and Issac BruceTeam A had serious injuries on his WR staff and even picked up JJ before he got hurt at TB.I said nothing but a few managers voiced their displeasure. Now, Team A had Ahman Green and SDavis with Bruce and Team B has Priest and THenry.What I am getting at is that one paper at that time it looked like a slam dunk for Team B getting the best player in the land but now I wouldn't say that's correct.
bigfishboy
Footballguy
I agree with you on this 99% of the time. I have seen some pretty wild things happen, and dont make a lot of predictions.This is an internet league, made up of mostly peole who dont know each other. If this trade occurred between two people who didn't know each other and the guy getting RW2 did know what he is getting into, then I am with you Sandbagger. But, if these owners do know each other, it is too easy for them to make a lopsided trade a league where they dont know other people and make it up "outside" of the league. In which case I am the one getting the shaft and I dont care much for that.
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
Even if there wasn't collusion and the guy is just that dumb. This trade should not be allowed. It ruins your league.
There is a big difference with this trade. A top RB is coming back for Holmes.
Warehouse Nasty
Footballguy
Who cares who his other players were before the trade? No roster could justify making that move. That's collusion at its finest and those 2 guys are probably off having a beer laughing at how they screwed everybody.
Unlucky
Phenom
I'm the commish and I'm letting it stand. I emailed both owners and I'm satisfied with their responses.Often, a bad team gets a little desparate to shake things up. Was this an even trade? Probably not. Do I think the one owner intentionally made a bad trade for his team to help his cousin? No. He did get RW2, and James hasn't exactly been the model of health lately. Lesson: when a bad team has a good player or two, make him some offers. They are more willing to give up quality for quantity even if the deal is a little lopsided.
bagger
Footballguy
If you feel that strongly about it, I'd leave the league after the season is done.I just can't justify nixing trades based on perceived future values.
In my league whenever owner(s) don't like a trade, as commish I'll ask the owners involved in the trade what their reasoning is. That's a pretty good litmus test as to whether the deal is on the up and up. If the owner that's getting screwed can't justify his position, then you start to look into it further.
Bottom line, you gotta be in leagues where you trust everyone or anything that goes on could be looked at as "collusion".
Goat Herders
Footballguy
Glad you're satisfied. Were the repsonses like this: "Dude, we'll give you a 20 to let it pass.." ???
HERDEverwars Nerd
Footballguy
Please tell me you're joking? Maybe you missed this bit.
This guy is either a quitter or he's helping his buddy win some $$$.
That, or get some family members to join a league with you so you can make sweetheart deals
Seriously though, Unlucky has a flawless reputation and this is the first time I've ever had any kind of problem in one of his leagues. Fairness and competitiveness is something he advertises, and so far has delivered. I respect him as a commish, and I know he is doing what he thinks is right. I'm just very disappointed that he's allowing this BS to go on, and I really hope it doesn't end up wrecking the league.
bagger
Footballguy
BS?Wrecking the league?Chill out chicken little.That, or get some family members to join a league with you so you can make sweetheart deals
RKade
Footballguy
Totally my bad on this guys, I thought he was talking about Ricky Williams not Play one more week RW2.I would NOT like this trade if it went through.Lesson in all of this? ONLY play in leagues where you know EVERYONE. I learned my lesson on this and seeing someone get Priest for players not even drafted or drafted WAY later than a sure top 3 pick is tough to stomach.
bigfishboy
Footballguy
yes it is possible that Holmes gets hurt, and yes it is possible that the Edge is hurt worse than anyone knows, and yes it is possible RW2 will beat out Mungro and Rhodes, and yes it is possible that RW2 may produce the rest of te year.It is also possible that I will win the lottery this week and not care about all of this!what happens if holmes gets hurt? then it's the other owner who ripped that guy off.also, how can you start making judgements when you don't know the scoring or starting lineup requirements?
The "what if so and so gets hurt" argument holds no water, as you don't judge trades on such things. If Team A sends Priest, Manning, LT2, and Moss to Team B for Morten Andersen, it's not fair because of the chance that the 4 studs might get hurt, and "then who robbed who?"Clearly, this deal isn't THAT lopsided, but it's still only the dream of an injury that makes it even remotely viable.I respect your anti-collusion zeal, and it's true that a lot of trades that shouldn't even be questioned are. But the term "collusion" exists for a reason. Not every trade is fair or in the best interests of a league, not everybody plays by the rules. No cheater anywhere, when asked his reason for a trade, is going to say, "Collusion." The parties will make up excuses and hope they fly.I appreciate a lenient commish as much as the next guy, but the line's got to be drawn someplace, or you're not a commish at all, you're just a dues collector.what happens if holmes gets hurt? then it's the other owner who ripped that guy off.also, how can you start making judgements when you don't know the scoring or starting lineup requirements?
RKade
Footballguy
Is it possible to get your $$ back? Probably not but no harm in asking. Another possibility is to follow suit, trade away your top sure thing RB for quesionable how long will they start players (shipp/gordon/any PHily RB) to a team that is willing to split the winnings.People may say this is crappy to suggest but if that trade was let through, who says YOU have to sit back and take it in the tail pipe, fight fire with fire I say when money is on the line (and you didn't join a friends only league).Search a team that would make them a definite top two teams but currently isn't there yet and take a split in the winnings.
bigfishboy
Footballguy
The Greek leagues have been great up till this for me. They are the only place where I can go to compete against quality owners. I live in a small town in Southwest Oregon I affectionately call the Blackhole of FF. I cant find anyone with FF ambition. That is why I turned to Unlucky.My brother and I are in this league together and I would expect that any trade we did would get heavily scrutinized. I have no problem with that, because we must have higher ethics than these two owners and wouldn't try pulling one over on the league. I would never have belived this would happen in a league of sharks. And while I knew Unlucky said he didn't overturn trades often, I would have expected that if enough people in the league were against it he would re-think his position.
refacer
Footballguy
Ok time for my 2 cents. I too am related to the two who made the trade (i'm their uncle, they are cousins), I have talk to greg (who had priest) and explained why he did it. Even though Priest was scoring him 25 points a game he was still 1-4 with this trade he gets 2 very good receivers and a running back who may play most of the year, there is no guarentee that Edgrin James will be back for long I just traded him in one of my leagues because he screwed me this past week in 2 of my leagues, he's another fragile freddy.Was it a smart trade maybe not but if you look at the stats bouldin is number 3 in yards and Driver is Farves main target and if James scratches one of his gold toofs he back on the DL and Williams will be the main back. Greg is a extremly competative person and no way will quit or do collusion with anyone, do I believe that yes I do. I too want to win and not happy about the trade but lets see what happens beore we pass judgement. Just because James comes back I don't think he will last the season.
bagger
Footballguy
No, it does hold water because it's an example of how you do not know any more than the people in the trade do about the future performance of these players.Past performance is not indicative of future performance.The "what if so and so gets hurt" argument holds no water, as you don't judge trades on such things. If Team A sends Priest, Manning, LT2, and Moss to Team B for Morten Andersen, it's not fair because of the chance that the 4 studs might get hurt, and "then who robbed who?"Clearly, this deal isn't THAT lopsided, but it's still only the dream of an injury that makes it even remotely viable.what happens if holmes gets hurt? then it's the other owner who ripped that guy off.
also, how can you start making judgements when you don't know the scoring or starting lineup requirements?
I respect your anti-collusion zeal, and it's true that a lot of trades that shouldn't even be questioned are. But the term "collusion" exists for a reason. Not every trade is fair or in the best interests of a league, not everybody plays by the rules. No cheater anywhere, when asked his reason for a trade, is going to say, "Collusion." The parties will make up excuses and hope they fly.
I appreciate a lenient commish as much as the next guy, but the line's got to be drawn someplace, or you're not a commish at all, you're just a dues collector.
What nobody in this thread is commenting on is that none of you who are in the league even know the scoring requirements. What if it's biased towards receivers? Then the team that got the 2 WRs and the backup RB could very well be sitting in a good position.
You people throw the word collusion around way more than you should.
Thus, my standard collusion response.
bagger
Footballguy
You are so scared that someone will get the better of anyone in a trade that you'll vote it down regardless. This is why any league that's worthwhile will not have this feature. Otherwise you'll get a bunch of paranoid owners voting anything down that might strengthen a competitor.Trades that are lopsided are not collusive.
How do you not understand that? There is no such thing as an even trade. Someone always gets an advantage (or they both do if it's a good trade).
bagger
Footballguy
If I was a commish, this would be more than adequate as an answer for me.Don't mind these "sharks" who cry about the smallest discrepency between someone else's fantasy football strategy and theirs.Thanks for posting to this thread. I'm sure your nephews are on the up and up, despite what people who don't know them think.
From the league rules:Tradinga. Both parties must agree to the trade. myfantasyleague.com handles trades well. b. I have the right to veto trades only in the event that collusion is suspected. I will define collusion as “a trade in which one of the owners knowingly and purposefully aids another owner without benefit to his own team.” Basically, I will allow stupid and unfair trades. I won’t allow trades if I strongly suspect collusionc. The remaining league members (excluding myself and the owners involved in the trade) may overrule my veto by a majority vote.My question is- does rule C apply to non-vetos? If so, then five of us could overturn this beast, and we could enjoy our league again. I'd like to hear from more of the people in the league.
bigfishboy
Footballguy
If you play in a shark league and a trade went through that 10 people didn't like and 2 did, the 2 are likely trying to get away with something.And what business is it of mine? It is my $50!
Similar threads
