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Comedian Louis CK admits to sexual harassment of several women (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter bosoxs45
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rockaction
Footballguy
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
I dont get perv. I've been with more women at once than some FFAppers have been with in their lifetime, was married to a prostitute and have indulged a lot of behavior just to contribute to sex partners' rocksoff moments and i still don't get perv. Now that somebody threw a bigass bucket of water on him, I expect CK to become as curious about why he did what he did as he has with everything else in his world and i expect the result to finally give me some answers. Nihilism is just curiosity without compunction or restriction, isnt it? Who was it said, "I do what i want til i'm stopped, but no one ever stops me"?
ETA: Shelley/Byron maybe?
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rockaction
Footballguy
I'm just thinking that when you think God dies, all is out the window. It's sort of a generalized sentiment, and not much to do with perv. But when your whole act is around God dying and pushing boundaries, you push boundaries in real life. I should make it clear I don't support it -- I don't get perv, either.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
His apology seems like it could have been taken verbatim from one of his standup routines.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I said in the political thread that he's still a pervert and scummy but it's a good statement even if he doesn't mean a word of it and I'll give him credit for it, assuming he doesn't backtrack or change his tune. If he loses his career over it then it is deserved - I won't be crying over it.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
shuke said:
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
i wrote a whole rock opera-type song a year or two about quests and frontiers and what not having any more of them will do to us. kinda like what DFWallace said about addiction being all we have to look forward to on our present course
i kill gods for people regularly in order to save their mental health and urge depth of faith to others for the same purpose. we're not good enough to replace god yet, so i do whatever's necessary to get my "clients" to behave like there is one without ever suggesting that there is one because there's a bug in the pit of my gut that tells me the God Dimension will be revealed to us just as soon as we show we can do without it. there's a lot of nihilism in there and not a bit of it is nihilistic. i'm closer to figuring it all out than anyone i know of, and i just wrote that.....
bostonfred
Footballguy
Help me understand how this is problematic behaviour but Nicole Kidman trying to date Jimmy Fallon wasn't. https://youtu.be/qtsNbxgPngA
He thought she wanted to talk about work. She was pursuing him romantically. They didn't go out, they met at his apartment.
If they had gone on to have consensual sex, would she be the one making a public apology? What specific line did he cross that she didn't, and what specifically would it have taken for her to become guilty of the same thing Louis is?
He thought she wanted to talk about work. She was pursuing him romantically. They didn't go out, they met at his apartment.
If they had gone on to have consensual sex, would she be the one making a public apology? What specific line did he cross that she didn't, and what specifically would it have taken for her to become guilty of the same thing Louis is?
McGarnicle
Footballguy
He's sick, and he committed weird and creepy acts that traumatized those women. He can't take it back, but validating their stories so they aren't labeled as liars is a huge deal. And he's now made lawsuits against him much easier to win. There was no upside for him other than just doing the right thing -- he loses the Netflix deals, the movie release and all the other opportunities regardless of admitting the truth or not.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
McGarnicle
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
I'm not kidding. Did Fallon not respect and admire Kidman? Was she not more established in the industry that Fallon was in?
I get thar she didn't rub one out in feint of him, but what I'd she had asked? Or if they'd just had consensual sex? Would it have mattered if only one of then had an orgasm?
Are single people prohibited from certain consensual sex acts with people in their industry? Which ones?
AAABatteries
Footballguy
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I'm a little afraid to answer fred's questions - I'll stick with, don't whip your #### out of your pants without consent. Seems like a good rule.
bostonfred
Footballguy
EYLive
Footballguy
I think even requesting consent for such a thing is a horrible idea in 99% of all fields of profession.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Pretty sure you are bored on a Friday night, but so am I.......
That's correct, he said he asked but from reading everyone's version of the events it doesn't sound like he received consent.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I'm talking about all the time - ignoring any specific circumstances (like being with co-workers). I agree with you, although if someone is inclined to do so and is willing to accept the consequences, more power to them.
Max Power
Footballguy
I ended up searching google for his situation in a legal sense. Came back with this...
Joe Summer
Footballguy
I think Fred's point is that if you ask consent and don't hear "No", and the person doesn't leave, then perhaps it's reasonable to assume that consent was given.
Maybe?
Maybe?
AAABatteries
Footballguy
"Mind if I smoke?" - maybe
"Mind if I whip my #### out and bust a nut?" - no, pretty sure you have to wait for a "yes" on that one
But it happened too fast for them to process. And then his #### was out, and their lives forever altered, their budding comedic careers thwarted. After seeing Louis CK's ****, they could not find the humor in anything anymore.
bostonfred
Footballguy
So the issue here is that people don't believe he asked for consent, or that they believe he asked and it wasn't given.
So if Nicole Kidman had ripped her shirt open and said take me I'm yours, but didn't wait for consent, same thing?
So if Nicole Kidman had ripped her shirt open and said take me I'm yours, but didn't wait for consent, same thing?
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
Who keep our masturbation to ourselves.Uruk-Hai said:
shadyridr
Footballguy
John Maddens Lunchbox
Footballguy
What about Elvis Presley, Michael Jackson, Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis and most of the 70s rock acts eg Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath etc?Uruk-Hai said:
Either confirmed paedophiles.or strongly rumored to have committed terrible acts on young girls/boys.
What Louis CK is gross, but in the grand scheme of enterntainment abuses of others, relatively minor..
He will suffer significantly from this, but at what point does all this public humiliation become blasé?
My own personal opinion is that I separate an artists work from their "private time". I have no problem watching a Mel Gibson movie, a Louis CK act, a Harvey Weinstein movie or listening to an Elvis, Michael Jackson or Led Zeppelin track. Even watching an Adrian Peterson or Ray Rice doesnt bother me. If society or more importantly the law doesnt take significant action, then I want to see or hear the best do their best.
Nigel
Footballguy
It’s the same reason we make light of teacher-student sex stories in here when teacher is female and kid is a dude. Yes, there’s a double standard, same as day one, won’t change.
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
Just to be clear, I'm not condoning anything. I'm asking where the line is.
The facts of this case include
He's old
He's fat
He's ugly
He's into weird sexual stuff
He's admirable
These are things i don't want to be illegal.
He asked for consent and may have gotten it
He exposed himself to people in his industry
The five women may have perceived him as having the power to help their careers
Again, things i don't want to be illegal. If someone comes up to my room thinking it could be good for my career to have sex with this guy, they are not a victim if i try to have sex with them
He may not have gotten consent
The five women may have perceived him as having the power to hurt their careers and felt uncomfortable saying no
The thing he did was particularly bad in some quantifiable way.
There are laws against the thing he did.
These are things I can see being legitimate reasons he should be punished. And that may be the case. I'm honestly not sure of the facts of the case. Most of the speculation I've seen falls in the first few groups, but there's definitely some speculation about that last group too.
I can also see a middle aged guy... who travels a ton, had a strained marriage at the time, didn't want to #### anyone but was in a weird place sexually, didn't have a lot of contact with non comedians, and whose job is to tell jokes about funny awkward situations... making some bad decisions. Without knowing the details of how bad those decisions actually were, I'm not inclined to bury the guy yet.
I'm also not sure what precedent had been left for the rest of us, but if it's "making any kind of sexual advance on anyone in your industry whatsoever is grounds to get fired and blacklisted for years at a minimum if the other person doesn't like it or decides years later that they don't like it", I'm uncomfortable with that.
I get that this may have been more than "any kind of sexual advance" or "decides years later that they don't like it", and I'm not trying to belittle this situation because I don't know all the facts. But I think we ought to be careful how we define what's right and wrong in this case.
General Malaise
Footballguy
BF = GG
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
General Malaise
Footballguy
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Didn't the story say he aplogized to a few of them a long time ago?EYLive said:
Frostillicus
Footballguy
I don't believe you.General Malaise said:
General Malaise
Footballguy
Frostillicus
Footballguy
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
question for the apologists...in what ####### universe it ok to whip out your hard **** and start jacking off, without it being crystal ####### clear that the people you're JACKING OFF in front of, are interested in watching you jack off?
so lame. i hope the ####er rots
so lame. i hope the ####er rots
bostonfred
Footballguy
This is not an attempt to defends him or his specific actions. It seems like there's agreement on these things
They didn't work for him
He asked if they wanted to come up to his room and they agreed
He asked if he could do a sexual thing
They did not leave
He undressed
They did not leave
He began to do a sexual thing
3 of them left, 2 stayed
He did a sexual thing
Pitchforks
At which step did he cross a line, and at which step would you be crossing a line if you did the same thing?
They didn't work for him
He asked if they wanted to come up to his room and they agreed
He asked if he could do a sexual thing
They did not leave
He undressed
They did not leave
He began to do a sexual thing
3 of them left, 2 stayed
He did a sexual thing
Pitchforks
At which step did he cross a line, and at which step would you be crossing a line if you did the same thing?
bostonfred
Footballguy
Let's say you are a single guy who works in business. You meet a girl who also works in business in an entry level position at another company. You talk for a while and ask her up to your room.
Once you get there, you ask her if you can kiss her. Then you lean in and give her a quick kiss. She doesn't leave. Then you lean in and give her another kiss.
Ten years later, you've gotten a couple of promotions. She comes out and says you took advantage of her. She agrees that you asked consent for the kiss, and that she didn't leave right away when you kissed her. As a result of the allegations, and before any evidence is presented in court, you lose your job and are black listed in your industry for years.
Are you guys ok with this?
Once you get there, you ask her if you can kiss her. Then you lean in and give her a quick kiss. She doesn't leave. Then you lean in and give her another kiss.
Ten years later, you've gotten a couple of promotions. She comes out and says you took advantage of her. She agrees that you asked consent for the kiss, and that she didn't leave right away when you kissed her. As a result of the allegations, and before any evidence is presented in court, you lose your job and are black listed in your industry for years.
Are you guys ok with this?
AAABatteries
Footballguy
In this city ladies look pretty
Guys tell jokes so they can seem witty
Tell a funny joke just to get some play
Then you try to make a move and she says, "No way"
Girls are fakin' goodness sakin'
They want the man who brings home the bacon
Got no money and you got no car
Then you got no women and there you are
Some girls are sadistic, materialistic
Lookin' for a man makes them opportunistic
They're lyin' on a beach perpetrating a tan
So a brother with the money can be their man
So on the beach you're strollin' real high rollin'
Everything you have is yours and not stolen
A girl runs up with somethin' to prove
So don't just stand there bust a move
bostonfred
Footballguy
That's not what happened. He invited them to his room, while fully clothed, he asked them if it was ok to do, and then he undressed.
Again, not apologizing for him, but you implied several things that potentially make this worse. You implied
- that he didn't try to get consent, when all parties seem to agree that he did
- that he "whipped it out" immediately and without time for them to realize he was serious, when all parties seem to agree that he undressed fully
It also seems that he felt that he had gotten consent, and it's not crystal clear to me whether the women accusing him consented or not. It may in fact have been crystal clear that they consented, because the issue at stake appears to be that he had power over them and not that they said no.
And if that's the case, i will become an apologist, because that's a really important distinction. I'm not comfortable at all with the idea that an adult can't give consent to someone who works in the same industry. Not their boss. Not someone currently making hiring decisions over them. Someone in their industry.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Consent is a really big part of this. All parties seem to agree that he asked for consent, and at a minimum that they didn't say no or leave. It's not totally clear whether they said ok, but let's assume they did for this thought exercise.Maurile Tremblay said:
Want to ####?
Sure.
Ok, let's ####.
He assaulted me because he's a successful comedian, actor and writer and I do stand-up.
How different is that from
Want to ####?
Sure.
Ok let's ####.
He assaulted me because he works in accounting and I do my own taxes.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Language warning, because it's Louis ck.
Stand-up bit from around the same time in his life. He would later get divorced.
Another
He was clearly having trouble in his marriage, and wasn't getting sex at home. He talked pretty openly about masturbation and lack of sex. I think there's a good chance that in his mind he wasn't "cheating" by doing this because he didn't have intercourse, risk getting anyone pregnant or getting a disease. I don't think he was getting off on abusing his power or humiliating anyone. I think he may have been humiliated and getting off on humiliating himself. Which doesn't give him the right to do anything with anyone else without their consent - I'm just talking about the motivation a little because i think people are assigning very different motives to him that don't seem to fit who he appears to be.
Stand-up bit from around the same time in his life. He would later get divorced.
Another
He was clearly having trouble in his marriage, and wasn't getting sex at home. He talked pretty openly about masturbation and lack of sex. I think there's a good chance that in his mind he wasn't "cheating" by doing this because he didn't have intercourse, risk getting anyone pregnant or getting a disease. I don't think he was getting off on abusing his power or humiliating anyone. I think he may have been humiliated and getting off on humiliating himself. Which doesn't give him the right to do anything with anyone else without their consent - I'm just talking about the motivation a little because i think people are assigning very different motives to him that don't seem to fit who he appears to be.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
This is the exact reaction his “apology” (in which he never apologizes) is meant to generate. He’s telling everyone it was consensual, that’s the main point. It almost certainly wasn’t. That and humble bragging about his power and how much he’s admired, and talking about his ####.
