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Commish Help (1 Viewer)

morgonster said:
Idiot Boxer said:
CrazyHorse1581 said:
GoRaiders said:
CrazyHorse1581 said:
Three teams ended the regular season tied with 7-6 records, vying for 2 remaining playoff spots. I want to make sure I get this right. My league's tiebreakers are:1. Best Head to Head Record 2. Best Division Record 3. Most Points 4. Coin Toss
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Do yourself a favor and kill Best Division Record as a Tie breaker for next year. That should not be used especially when looking to tie break teams from different divisions. So you give the advantage to a team that went 6-0 in a cupcake division, but got killed by stronger competition outside his division?H-T-H first, then Total points next. If you use Decimal scoring you won't need a third, but you could move Divisional record third or add Total points scored in H-T-H as another option.
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I agree with that! As for this year here's how it's going to be. With Head to Head being the first tie breaker it goes.Team B - 2-1 (.667)Team C - 1-1 (.500)Team A - 1-2 (.333)Team B gets 5th seedTeam C gets 6th seed
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No. This isn't H2H. This is best winning percentage among three teams. H2H, by definition, is only the games between two teams. A should not be benefitted/penalized for wins/losses by B/C in games between B/C and vice-versa when considering H2H. Team A was not involved in the H2H matchup between B/C. If you cannot eliminate a team clearly through H2H (i.e. no team was swept by both other opponents), you then go to the next tiebreaker.ETA: If this is the ruling you made, it was a terrible, terrible miscarriage of your authority as commissioner. It sounds as if you waited long enough for someone in this thread to post the solution you wanted, and then decided.The answer is A & C as many others have said.
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CrazyHorse1581 is Team B
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You're wrong. I appreciate everyone's input. I consulted with the teams involved as well as the co-commissioner and this is how we've decided to handle it. Agree or disagree - the decision has been made and everyone is OK with it.One thing is for sure - next year we will revisit the tie break rules to hopefully avoid this type of mess in the future.
 
Terrible ruling and you're wrong.

Seriously? Who is Team B? Your brother? wife? kid?

You literally lurked in this thread until someone posted the answer you wanted to hear and then jumped on it. I haven't checked, but the majority of those responding came up with A & C and yet you take the minority opinion and go B & C.

Something is definitely fishy and this thread is just a farce. You made your decision before you even posted.

 
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Use total points next year. Our 6th seed was between two teams that finished 6-7. The team that was eliminated beat the 6th seed head to head, but scored over 300 points less over the season. I set the rules in stone from day one that total points is the tiebreaker, it ensures the best team gets in, not because you had two runningbacks and a QB on a bye the week you played the other guy

 
paulbertini said:
Use total points next year. Our 6th seed was between two teams that finished 6-7. The team that was eliminated beat the 6th seed head to head, but scored over 300 points less over the season. I set the rules in stone from day one that total points is the tiebreaker, it ensures the best team gets in, not because you had two runningbacks and a QB on a bye the week you played the other guy
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Why is it so obvious to most people that total points is the best tie breaker when the few idiots in my league think Head to head is the way to go? Morons in my league.
 
CrazyHorse1581 said:
I've been running this league for 10 years and its the first time we've had this.
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You got weird lucky.When three teams (from more than one division) are tied for wild card in the NFL, the division tie-breaking procedures are used to eliminate all but one team from each division before applying wild card tie-breakers. Many fantasy leagues do something along these lines, as it eliminates a lot of confusion with unbalanced schedules among the tied clubs. Also, the W-L among the clubs is often used only to adbance a team who his undefeated against the rest of the group or eliminate a team which is winless within the group.
Ruffrodys05 said:
Not sure how you can compare division records of teams in different divisions? ...
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:unsure: It seems absurd to use division record to break ties between teams in separate divisions.
 
So long as head-to-head tiebreakers rules are clearly written, with directions on how to apply them (such as the NFL's are), it is not mind-numbing or difficult to apply them.

The difficult issues only arise when leagues adopt rules which are not clear.

 
Topes said:
So long as head-to-head tiebreakers rules are clearly written, with directions on how to apply them (such as the NFL's are), it is not mind-numbing or difficult to apply them. The difficult issues only arise when leagues adopt rules which are not clear.
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This is true. I find head to head can work when its just a 2 team tiebreaker. For multiple teams, it rarely works though.
 
Idiot Boxer said:
Godsbrother said:
Idiot Boxer said:
How can B be superior to A if they split H2H?
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Because A lost to C , an opponent defeated by B
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You are now out of the realm of head to head. Transitive property of fantasy football is not an accepted axiom.
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I understand what you are saying. Just because Team B beat Team C does not make it better than Team A as there is likely a team D that Team A beat and Team B didn't. You are correct in that what is being applied here is the best winning percentage among the teams involved in the tie, which I have seen used as a tiebreaker but that is not what is in the OPs rules. In light of that I agree the H2H tiebreaker cannot be used and since they are in different divisions neither should the divsional record come into play.

Therefore I would go with the next tiebreaker which is highest points.

 
Godsbrother said:
Idiot Boxer said:
Godsbrother said:
Idiot Boxer said:
How can B be superior to A if they split H2H?
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Because A lost to C , an opponent defeated by B
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You are now out of the realm of head to head. Transitive property of fantasy football is not an accepted axiom.
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I understand what you are saying. Just because Team B beat Team C does not make it better than Team A as there is likely a team D that Team A beat and Team B didn't. You are correct in that what is being applied here is the best winning percentage among the teams involved in the tie, which I have seen used as a tiebreaker but that is not what is in the OPs rules. In light of that I agree the H2H tiebreaker cannot be used and since they are in different divisions neither should the divsional record come into play.

Therefore I would go with the next tiebreaker which is highest points.
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Are you involved in this debacle GB? What do the points say?

 
Idiot Boxer said:
Godsbrother said:
Idiot Boxer said:
Are you involved in this debacle GB? What do the points say?
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Nope, I have no idea what the situation with points is. I do like Team B's name the best though...
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Did I miss a link to the league?
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There is no link because it's cbssportsline. Team A - 1114.9 total pointsTeam B - 1298.2 total pointsTeam C - 1269.6 total pointsIdiot Boxer - I really don't have a dog in this fight. I'm not sure why you're accusing me of wrong doing, I handled it the way I saw fit and my league as well as the 3 owners involved have no issue with it. I'm sorry if you disagree with that. As for your comment that I was lurking waiting for the right answer to come along - you couldn't be more off base. I was logged in this morning and left this up while going to work and classes. I checked it periodically from my phone. Your accusations are off base, but I guess there's one in every crowd when it comes to fantasy football message boards.
 
CrazyHorse1581 said:
GoRaiders said:
CrazyHorse1581 said:
Three teams ended the regular season tied with 7-6 records, vying for 2 remaining playoff spots. I want to make sure I get this right. My league's tiebreakers are:

1. Best Head to Head Record

2. Best Division Record

3. Most Points

4. Coin Toss
Click to expand...
Do yourself a favor and kill Best Division Record as a Tie breaker for next year. That should not be used especially when looking to tie break teams from different divisions. So you give the advantage to a team that went 6-0 in a cupcake division, but got killed by stronger competition outside his division?H-T-H first, then Total points next. If you use Decimal scoring you won't need a third, but you could move Divisional record third or add Total points scored in H-T-H as another option.
Click to expand...
I agree with that! As for this year here's how it's going to be. With Head to Head being the first tie breaker it goes.

Team B - 2-1 (.667)

Team C - 1-1 (.500)

Team A - 1-2 (.333)

Team B gets 5th seed

Team C gets 6th seed
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[commish]This is what I was hoping for. Good. Let's run with it.

[/commish]

 
CrazyHorse1581 said:
Idiot Boxer said:
Godsbrother said:
Idiot Boxer said:
Are you involved in this debacle GB? What do the points say?
Click to expand...
Nope, I have no idea what the situation with points is. I do like Team B's name the best though...
Click to expand...
Did I miss a link to the league?
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There is no link because it's cbssportsline. Team A - 1114.9 total pointsTeam B - 1298.2 total pointsTeam C - 1269.6 total pointsIdiot Boxer - I really don't have a dog in this fight. I'm not sure why you're accusing me of wrong doing, I handled it the way I saw fit and my league as well as the 3 owners involved have no issue with it. I'm sorry if you disagree with that. As for your comment that I was lurking waiting for the right answer to come along - you couldn't be more off base. I was logged in this morning and left this up while going to work and classes. I checked it periodically from my phone. Your accusations are off base, but I guess there's one in every crowd when it comes to fantasy football message boards.
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Maybe you don't have a dog in the fight, but you definitely came in here with an opinion and you were looking for validation rather than interpretation.I've been in a salty mood today, regardless, so I'm sure I'm coming across harsher than need be.That said, while your logic is flawed (the H2H evaluation is still bogus and the most bizarre interpretation of rules I've ever seen), you may have ended with the right result. Divisional Record can't be used to distinguish B/C because they're different divisions (just picked that up on re-read)...so you do go to points. B should be the 5 seed and C the 6.
 
I went through this years ago, your tie breaking system is not the best, nothing you can do about that now, just correct it for next year. Our rules now state, H2H, then total pts unless there is a three or more way tie, then it goes straight to total points. You always break one tie before you get to the next though.

For now, you have to play by the current rules so you first take one from the 3 way tie

Team A - 1-2 (.333)

Team B - 2-1 (.666)

Team C - 1-1 (.500)

Team B gets the #5 seed

Now you are back to a two way tie for the last spot

Team C beat Team A, Team C gets the #6 seed

I agree that division record should have nothing to do with tie breakers unless it's for a division title

 
Crazy8s said:
Hoss_Cartwright said:
Wouldn't it be easier to just have total points as the first tiebreaker? /end of headache and best indicator of better teams. Unless of course you love this misery.
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Then why have divisions? Or Wins/Loses...just do total points for the year. (Whatever works for you...I perfer Head2head.)
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I prefer to h2h also, but to answer your question. Make total points 1st tiebreaker, easy to see and discern, and it makes the more "consistent" team have value. You play h2h all year and couldn't get it done, go to total points for reasons already stated.
 
BucFan40 said:
I went through this years ago, your tie breaking system is not the best, nothing you can do about that now, just correct it for next year. Our rules now state, H2H, then total pts unless there is a three or more way tie, then it goes straight to total points. You always break one tie before you get to the next though.For now, you have to play by the current rules so you first take one from the 3 way tieTeam A - 1-2 (.333)Team B - 2-1 (.666)Team C - 1-1 (.500)Team B gets the #5 seedNow you are back to a two way tie for the last spotTeam C beat Team A, Team C gets the #6 seedI agree that division record should have nothing to do with tie breakers unless it's for a division title
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This is NOT H2H people!
 
CrazyHorse1581 said:
Three teams ended the regular season tied with 7-6 records, vying for 2 remaining playoff spots. I want to make sure I get this right. My league's tiebreakers are:1. Best Head to Head Record 2. Best Division Record 3. Most Points 4. Coin Toss * Team A and Team B split their head to head matchups (same division - played twice)* Team A lost in regular season to Team C * Team B beat Team C in regular season * Team A has the best division record of the 3 so he is the #5 seed.* Team B beat Team C in regular season making him the #6 seed. Do I have this right?I've been running this league for 10 years and its the first time we've had this. Prior to last week there were 5 teams vying for the final 2 playoff spots.
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Looks like the way "head-to-head" is to be applied in a 3-way, B is 2-1 vs the other two, C 1-1, and A 1-2. So the ranking is B, C, A.Needless to say, this is something that needs to be better fleshed out in the offseason, but that's how I read your rules.
 
Idiot Boxer said:
BucFan40 said:
I went through this years ago, your tie breaking system is not the best, nothing you can do about that now, just correct it for next year. Our rules now state, H2H, then total pts unless there is a three or more way tie, then it goes straight to total points. You always break one tie before you get to the next though.For now, you have to play by the current rules so you first take one from the 3 way tieTeam A - 1-2 (.333)Team B - 2-1 (.666)Team C - 1-1 (.500)Team B gets the #5 seedNow you are back to a two way tie for the last spotTeam C beat Team A, Team C gets the #6 seedI agree that division record should have nothing to do with tie breakers unless it's for a division title
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This is NOT H2H people!
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I agree, it's not your typical H2H which is why I said their current tie breaking system is not the best and to clarify the rules for next year. But for now, I think this is the fairest interpretation of their current rule.
 
BucFan40 said:
Idiot Boxer said:
BucFan40 said:
I went through this years ago, your tie breaking system is not the best, nothing you can do about that now, just correct it for next year. Our rules now state, H2H, then total pts unless there is a three or more way tie, then it goes straight to total points. You always break one tie before you get to the next though.For now, you have to play by the current rules so you first take one from the 3 way tieTeam A - 1-2 (.333)Team B - 2-1 (.666)Team C - 1-1 (.500)Team B gets the #5 seedNow you are back to a two way tie for the last spotTeam C beat Team A, Team C gets the #6 seedI agree that division record should have nothing to do with tie breakers unless it's for a division title
Click to expand...
This is NOT H2H people!
Click to expand...
I agree, it's not your typical H2H which is why I said their current tie breaking system is not the best and to clarify the rules for next year. But for now, I think this is the fairest interpretation of their current rule.
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I still don't know on what planet the 'fairest interpretation' of H2H is 'winning percentage in the games among the teams tied' when more than 2 teams are tied.You don't have to resolve the tiebreaker at the second step. That's why you have step 3 and step 4. This fact pattern is not resolvable at the H2H level.
 
Idiot Boxer said:
BucFan40 said:
Idiot Boxer said:
BucFan40 said:
I went through this years ago, your tie breaking system is not the best, nothing you can do about that now, just correct it for next year. Our rules now state, H2H, then total pts unless there is a three or more way tie, then it goes straight to total points. You always break one tie before you get to the next though.For now, you have to play by the current rules so you first take one from the 3 way tieTeam A - 1-2 (.333)Team B - 2-1 (.666)Team C - 1-1 (.500)Team B gets the #5 seedNow you are back to a two way tie for the last spotTeam C beat Team A, Team C gets the #6 seedI agree that division record should have nothing to do with tie breakers unless it's for a division title
Click to expand...
This is NOT H2H people!
Click to expand...
I agree, it's not your typical H2H which is why I said their current tie breaking system is not the best and to clarify the rules for next year. But for now, I think this is the fairest interpretation of their current rule.
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I still don't know on what planet the 'fairest interpretation' of H2H is 'winning percentage in the games among the teams tied' when more than 2 teams are tied.You don't have to resolve the tiebreaker at the second step. That's why you have step 3 and step 4. This fact pattern is not resolvable at the H2H level.
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You come in and insult the OP's integrity because you have some narrow definition of H2H that most people don't accept. I happen to think the the commish did exactly the right thing in interpreting the rules as written and not changing the rules after the fact. Team B and Team C get in.
 
Because of the complexities raised when you have more than 2 teams with the same record, we only use the H2H record when there are 2 teams tied. If more than 2 teams have the same record we skip the H2H tiebreaker. Makes life much easier.

 
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Topes said:
So long as head-to-head tiebreakers rules are clearly written, with directions on how to apply them (such as the NFL's are), it is not mind-numbing or difficult to apply them. The difficult issues only arise when leagues adopt rules which are not clear.
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:goodposting: Many leagues don't want to use total points as the initial tie breaker for the same reason they play head to head games in the first place.
 
stugnut said:
Because of the complexities raised when you have more than 2 teams with the same record, we only use the H2H record when there are 2 teams tied. If more than 2 teams have the same record we skip the H2H tiebreaker. Makes life much easier.
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H2H can be used with more than 2 teams but one team would have to have the edge over ALL of the other teams for it to be applied.In this case B holds the H2H advantage over C but not A so move on to the next tiebreaker.

You can't just add up the wins and losses against each other to break the tie because then you're doing H2H2H. There's been many arguments in this thread as to why that method shouldn't apply.

 
CrazyHorse1581 said:
Three teams ended the regular season tied with 7-6 records, vying for 2 remaining playoff spots. I want to make sure I get this right. My league's tiebreakers are:1. Best Head to Head Record 2. Best Division Record 3. Most Points 4. Coin Toss * Team A and Team B split their head to head matchups (same division - played twice)* Team A lost in regular season to Team C * Team B beat Team C in regular season * Team A has the best division record of the 3 so he is the #5 seed.* Team B beat Team C in regular season making him the #6 seed. Do I have this right?I've been running this league for 10 years and its the first time we've had this. Prior to last week there were 5 teams vying for the final 2 playoff spots.
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you can't compare divisional records of teams in different divisions, that's not how it works...since this is such a complicated issue, I would just claim that the tiebreakers are even for the first two and just go with total points.
 
plyka said:
CrazyHorse1581 said:
Three teams ended the regular season tied with 7-6 records, vying for 2 remaining playoff spots. I want to make sure I get this right. My league's tiebreakers are:1. Best Head to Head Record 2. Best Division Record 3. Most Points 4. Coin Toss * Team A and Team B split their head to head matchups (same division - played twice)* Team A lost in regular season to Team C * Team B beat Team C in regular season * Team A has the best division record of the 3 so he is the #5 seed.* Team B beat Team C in regular season making him the #6 seed. Do I have this right?I've been running this league for 10 years and its the first time we've had this. Prior to last week there were 5 teams vying for the final 2 playoff spots.
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you can't compare divisional records of teams in different divisions, that's not how it works...since this is such a complicated issue, I would just claim that the tiebreakers are even for the first two and just go with total points.
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If I read that right, you are correct. You NEVER use divisional tiebreakers between different divisions.
 
Perfect Tommy said:
You come in and insult the OP's integrity because you have some narrow definition of H2H that most people don't accept. I happen to think the the commish did exactly the right thing in interpreting the rules as written and not changing the rules after the fact. Team B and Team C get in.
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The OP and I have made peace. My definition of H2H isn't narrow. It IS the definition of H2H. When comparing the H2H records of more than two teams who are tied, you do not compare their winning percentage in those games. You have gone away from H2H. I promise you, I'm right about this part. You may have a problem with the way I have expressed myself, but I'm not wrong.The good news is because Team B and Team C are in different divisions, you can't use that tiebreaker either. So total points breaks the tie...and gets the same result.
 
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