Community Talk - "Third Places" (1 Viewer)

[Drunken knight]

Pat O’shea’s in sf

That was one of my spots to watch football on Sundays, but my "daily" spot was Last Day Saloon a couple of blocks way on Clement, mixing it up with the occasional trip across the street to Bitter End.

would hit those as well (grew up in the richmond district).

blarney stone
tradr's sams were favorites too

 

[Drunken knight]

@SFBayDuck

even though we lived in marin (larkspur and novato) for a bit, i never really developed a "third place" for the area as most friends were south.

 

[AAABatteries]

Weird. I was just thinking today that I would mention this kind of "third place" in the "phrases/terms that need to be retired" thread. Seeing it everywhere. I'm not exactly sure why it annoys me, but it does.

We never talked about this before because we didn't realize it was important until we had already destroyed it.

A motivated reader could probably come up with other examples of similar phenomena.

Thanks. Can you elaborate on what and how we destroyed it? And what you're calling "it"?

It does seem like the physical places like the bars are declining as the original article I linked talks about. But not sure if overall the desire is declining or if the places are just shifting to different spots. Coffee shops now are way more popular in the US than they were 40 years ago for instance and there's a lot of "3rd Place" type connection that goes on there.

Every time I encounter this topic, it's always in the context of "third spaces are disappearing." I guess I just assume that that's an actual thing that's happening. This isn't really a new phenomenon -- Bowling Alone came out nearly 25 years ago. But this is another one of those trends that I think the pandemic greatly accelerated. Look at the number of "home, home, and home" responses in this thread, and ask yourself if we would have seen any such responses in the Old Yeller days.

Honestly never thought about this as I was knew to the term but your post got me thinking - so, of course, I did a Google search and found this:

The Death of Third Places and the Evolution of Communities

Third places were like the glue that held communities together, but as they fade away, new forms of connection are emerging.

medium.com

Note - I haven't even read the whole article, can't vouch for it and maybe it's garbage pseudo-science but after reading some and seeing this quote and what you mentioned about Bowling Alone I decided to share it:

There has been a steady decline for decades, with dropping club memberships, church attendance and other forms of social participation — Robert Putnam, Bowling Alone.

 

[AAABatteries]

Weird. I was just thinking today that I would mention this kind of "third place" in the "phrases/terms that need to be retired" thread. Seeing it everywhere. I'm not exactly sure why it annoys me, but it does.

We never talked about this before because we didn't realize it was important until we had already destroyed it.

A motivated reader could probably come up with other examples of similar phenomena.

Thanks. Can you elaborate on what and how we destroyed it? And what you're calling "it"?

It does seem like the physical places like the bars are declining as the original article I linked talks about. But not sure if overall the desire is declining or if the places are just shifting to different spots. Coffee shops now are way more popular in the US than they were 40 years ago for instance and there's a lot of "3rd Place" type connection that goes on there.

Every time I encounter this topic, it's always in the context of "third spaces are disappearing." I guess I just assume that that's an actual thing that's happening. This isn't really a new phenomenon -- Bowling Alone came out nearly 25 years ago. But this is another one of those trends that I think the pandemic greatly accelerated. Look at the number of "home, home, and home" responses in this thread, and ask yourself if we would have seen any such responses in the Old Yeller days.

Thanks. I do wonder if we have less 3rd Spaces now or how they're shifting. I read and listened to this last week and it's right on that topic.

Why Americans Stopped Hanging Out—and Why It Matters​

Why Americans Stopped Hanging Out—and Why It Matters

Sociologist Eric Klinenberg joins Derek to examine the dramatic decline in face-to-face socialization in the U.S.

www.theringer.com

I do think agree it seems we have more of the home - home - home and that feels not optimal to me. But maybe that's me.

The article is good I linked to and the podcast was excellent too.

Seems like a key point when discussing "spaces" is whether it needs to be physical or if it can be virtual.

Tangent: for those who are familiar with The Love Languages book there is a Love Language called Physical Touch (and yes sex is a big part of it but it's not just sex - also includes platonic touching). Anyway, for someone like me who has that as their highest love language it's tough to only have virtual spaces. There's been a lot of talk about getting rid of handshakes and I mostly agree from a germ standpoint but I miss hugging my friends and family when doing things virtually. I don't mind a handshake with a new acquaintance or even a fist bump.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Seems like a key point when discussing "spaces" is whether it needs to be physical or if it can be virtual.

As I understand it, the discussion of "third places" is that they are all physical.

Virtual communities seem to clearly have an effect on diminishing the number of people in physical 3rd places, but I think most people consider third places physical places.

It's more a discussion of where you physically spend your time in a day.

 

[FairWarning]

Guess I'm a different breed. I work from home so my places are home and home and home. I'm fine with it.

Thanks. I do wonder what percentage of folks are like that.

Since covid, those numbers are up a lot. My sales are in free fall since covid, I see much less morning traffic to work. Diners and drinking bars really took a hit.

I'm sorry to hear about the sales. Can you remind me what it is you sell? Or what market it is that you see down?

Food distributor. I deal with independents mainly. They really took a hit during covid and never recovered.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Guess I'm a different breed. I work from home so my places are home and home and home. I'm fine with it.

Thanks. I do wonder what percentage of folks are like that.

Since covid, those numbers are up a lot. My sales are in free fall since covid, I see much less morning traffic to work. Diners and drinking bars really took a hit.

I'm sorry to hear about the sales. Can you remind me what it is you sell? Or what market it is that you see down?

Food distributor. I deal with independents mainly. They really took a hit during covid and never recovered.

Thanks. For grocery stores / convenience stores? I knew of course many didn't survive COVID but I didn't realize that business hadn't recovered for the ones that survived.

 

[massraider]

Seems like a key point when discussing "spaces" is whether it needs to be physical or if it can be virtual.

I am sure it is the same to some people.

I would guess that to most people, being in the same space is what would be most beneficial.

 

[SFBayDuck]

@SFBayDuck

even though we lived in marin (larkspur and novato) for a bit, i never really developed a "third place" for the area as most friends were south.

I had Brew Co for a bit, when I was living in Greenbrae and taking the ferry into The City every day. Once or twice a week I'd stop there, sit at the bar and drink a beer, place a to-go dinner order and drink another beer, then bring the food home. I got to know a few of the bartenders well enough that we hung out socially a few times away from there.

In Novato we had Mantra, the wine tasting room that opened up downtown, and Las Guitarras. I'd work from one of those spots on occasion on a Thursday or Friday afternoon, and got to know the owners/managers/staff at each. At Las Guitarras the waiter would give me a look, I'd nod, and he'd bring me my standard drink order.

But, like you, most of my friends were either still in SF or had moved away from the Bay, so these were local spots that I frequented but wasn't really meeting friends there too often.

 

[Drunken knight]

@SFBayDuck

even though we lived in marin (larkspur and novato) for a bit, i never really developed a "third place" for the area as most friends were south.

I had Brew Co for a bit, when I was living in Greenbrae and taking the ferry into The City every day. Once or twice a week I'd stop there, sit at the bar and drink a beer, place a to-go dinner order and drink another beer, then bring the food home. I got to know a few of the bartenders well enough that we hung out socially a few times away from there.

In Novato we had Mantra, the wine tasting room that opened up downtown, and Las Guitarras. I'd work from one of those spots on occasion on a Thursday or Friday afternoon, and got to know the owners/managers/staff at each. At Las Guitarras the waiter would give me a look, I'd nod, and he'd bring me my standard drink order.

But, like you, most of my friends were either still in SF or had moved away from the Bay, so these were local spots that I frequented but wasn't really meeting friends there too often.

yeah... Marin brewing when we were down there.

really liked las guitarras, but we would go for dinner...not just to hang. same for Moylans

 

[FairWarning]

Guess I'm a different breed. I work from home so my places are home and home and home. I'm fine with it.

Thanks. I do wonder what percentage of folks are like that.

Since covid, those numbers are up a lot. My sales are in free fall since covid, I see much less morning traffic to work. Diners and drinking bars really took a hit.

I'm sorry to hear about the sales. Can you remind me what it is you sell? Or what market it is that you see down?

Food distributor. I deal with independents mainly. They really took a hit during covid and never recovered.

Thanks. For grocery stores / convenience stores? I knew of course many didn't survive COVID but I didn't realize that business hadn't recovered for the ones that survived.

Both plus bars and restaurants.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

I am around too many people at work. I don’t want to to go be around more people for fun or to unwind. As I age this is getting worse.

 

[Hu-Tang Clan]

I don't have a standard "third place" but mix in a variety of social get togethers and locations. Regular weekly soccer game in a 45+ league and drinks after, restaurant once or twice a week, the odd NHL game, etc.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Im in the middle of something and now I’m in a hurry to go so apologies for the jumbled thoughts below….


I think the “I just want to never leave my house or talk to people” is a congested city thing.

I recently spent some time in “the county” with a lot of folks from “the county”. This particular county is Calvert county, Maryland/southern Maryland.

I’ve spent a little bit of time down there over the years and I think it goes without saying that it’s a stark contrast to us in large cities.

They all hang out all the time. Family is still close and means something to them. They dont have much to do so they talk. And boy do I mean they talk. I met a guy fire the first time named, Ray.

After 15 minutes I learned that Ray:

-Is married and has been for 13 years
-He current wife left him two years ago but won’t sign the papers
-He’s worked at “x” for 6 years
-He plans on switching jobs
-His tattoo was done by a guy who didn’t speak English (but does amazing work)
-inherited his house from his father
-Currently pays $1,500 mo child support
-offered his wife $100,000 to get her to sign the papers and stay away from his retirement

Point being….

While I am personally not that sharing, this type of behavior isn’t uncommon. These folks all know each other one way or another and get together all the time just camping, hanging out or doing things together.

 

[Joe Bryant]

They dont have much to do so they talk.

Can you elaborate on this more? They don't have work? Or hobbies?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Im in the middle of something and now I’m in a hurry to go so apologies for the jumbled thoughts below….


I think the “I just want to never leave my house or talk to people” is a congested city thing.

I recently spent some time in “the county” with a lot of folks from “the county”. This particular county is Calvert county, Maryland/southern Maryland.

I’ve spent a little bit of time down there over the years and I think it goes without saying that it’s a stark contrast to us in large cities.

They all hang out all the time. Family is still close and means something to them. They dont have much to do so they talk. And boy do I mean they talk. I met a guy fire the first time named, Ray.

After 15 minutes I learned that Ray:

-Is married and has been for 13 years
-He current wife left him two years ago but won’t sign the papers
-He’s worked at “x” for 6 years
-He plans on switching jobs
-His tattoo was done by a guy who didn’t speak English (but does amazing work)
-inherited his house from his father
-Currently pays $1,500 mo child support
-offered his wife $100,000 to get her to sign the papers and stay away from his retirement

Point being….

While I am personally not that sharing, this type of behavior isn’t uncommon. These folks all know each other one way or another and get together all the time just camping, hanging out or doing things together.

I know what you're talking about. I always thought of it as more of a Midwestern thing than a small-town thing, but maybe you're right.

On the other hand, small towns have a limited selection of third spaces. I'm not sure whether that's a positive (people congregate in 2-3 spots, so it feels like a cross-section of the community) or a negative (people stay home because they don't like the local bar, the local breakfast place, or the local bowling alley.)

 

[jhib]

Weird. I was just thinking today that I would mention this kind of "third place" in the "phrases/terms that need to be retired" thread. Seeing it everywhere. I'm not exactly sure why it annoys me, but it does.

Honestly, this thread is the first time I’ve ever heard of it.

I hadn't heard of it before a few months ago, but now see it referenced all the time.
Half the time I get the impression that the person using it is just dying for someone to ask what they mean.

 

[jhib]

Weird. I was just thinking today that I would mention this kind of "third place" in the "phrases/terms that need to be retired" thread. Seeing it everywhere. I'm not exactly sure why it annoys me, but it does.

Interesting. I don't see it everywhere. But I think about it a lot and I probably find myself noticing it more.

I'd be interested in if you dug more into why it annoys you.

It seems to be one of those terms where the words accurately describe what one means. (once we get past it's not a 3rd place trophy )

It does seem like some folks here had never heard it before so not sure how prvelant it is.

To be clear, it's the phrase itself and not the concept that bothers me (admittedly probably irrationally).

I guess part of it is that while it's a descriptive phrase, the meaning isn't obvious to everyone. So when I hear it used, it just sounds like the person is finding a reason to try it out and/or get someone to ask what they mean by it.

Rather than asking someone where they like to socialize/hang out when not at work, you see, "What's your third place?"

 

[Joe Bryant]

I guess part of it is that while it's a descriptive phrase, the meaning isn't obvious to everyone. So when I hear it used, it just sounds like the person is finding a reason to try it out and/or get someone to ask what they mean by it.

I guess so. But I was super clear to explain it in my post.

Sociologists call these places "Third Places." The name comes from the idea that people want a third place to go along with home and their workplace.They can be barbershops, community centers, churches, hardware stores, coffee shops, and more. Often they are bars.

 

[jhib]

I guess part of it is that while it's a descriptive phrase, the meaning isn't obvious to everyone. So when I hear it used, it just sounds like the person is finding a reason to try it out and/or get someone to ask what they mean by it.

I guess so. But I was super clear to explain it in my post.

Sociologists call these places "Third Places." The name comes from the idea that people want a third place to go along with home and their workplace.They can be barbershops, community centers, churches, hardware stores, coffee shops, and more. Often they are bars.

Right, I wasn't really knocking you and how you used it, as you were talking about the general concept itself.

I mean more the way it's working it's way into general dialogue (in my recent experience, and I wonder if it starts becoming more prevalent in others').

"What's your third place?" is a clear question, unless you don't know what that refers to, or if you don't have the usual 1st & 2nd places, or if you don't really have one extra place that would qualify as 3rd but you spread out your socializing, etc...
So as the name of a general concept in sociology it's fine, but to use it in normal conversation (the way I've heard it) sounds a bit pretentious and unnecessarily unclear to me.

Don't mind me, though. Sorry to distract from the conversation. I was just remarking because I had just heard it used the day before in the way it annoys me and thought it was funny that this post popped up.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I was recently talking about this exact thing with a co-worker. We were talking about how social clubs have all basically collapsed and are dying. VFW, Rotary Club, Kiwanis, Elk Club, Shriners, etc are all going by the wayside. It’s sad, because as the article AAA posted says, there is a significant loneliness epidemic in the world today.

There was a time where most people had at least one, if not more, of: church, social club, bar, sports league/club.

Now people are lucky if their social interaction is with other parents when they lug their kid to some sports thing 7 days a week.