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No. I'd really like to know what my 180 was.
I stand by what I said to--and its all up there for consumption if you want to read it. There is no need for us to repeat things.
Ok. So to be clear, you're just making crap up. Got it. I thought that's what was happening but wanted to be sure.
Bro---you are getting really weird. Our entire conversation from yesterday is up and documented. I'm referring you to read that. Please either re-read the conversation or let it go. Seriously.
I know it is. And at no point have I ever wavered from my original post. Even right up to this very moment. And that's cool. We can be done now. I just wanted to see if you'd throw out actual evidence of me doing a complete 180 or if you'd just say, "You can see it in the thread." That's all I needed to see. Just want to make sure if anyone is still reading this drivel they can see what you're saying. I like to get it all in writing. You know, for the historians.
Agreed. I honestly thought a thread about Americans choosing China over democracy wouldn't have been such a flashpoint conversation.Nigel said:
If a simple re-tweet about supporting Hong Kong (that was in no way inflammatory) was enough to put the players in danger of being harmed by the Chinese government, I think that tells us all we need to know about whether they should have even been there doing business with them in the first place. And if the players were aware enough to know that something as innocuous as that could jeopardize their safety, then that tells us all we need to know about whether the players knew exactly who they were doing business with.
The players were there as the teams (Brooklyn, LAL) were on schedule to play each other over there. If you mean individual players doing business there, I agree.
The only "harm" that was coming was financial. James knows that if he says anything bad, not only does he lose Nike money, but he will lose Space Jam 2 money. That's a big hit. Of course, when you're a billionaire, that big hit doesn't really make a dent.
There is zero chance the NBA would have punished a player for refusing to go because they didn’t feel safe.
Well, if that little tweet was enough to put their safety in jeopardy and Lebron didn’t know that ahead of time, then I guess he wasn’t educated on the situation at hand and he never stopped and considered the consequences.
It is LeBron’s fault he didn’t know that Morey was going to send that tweet out and therefore he didn’t pay attention to the consequences of playing in NBA-mandated games in China? Wut
It's not his fault. But after that tweet, why wouldn't he stick up for Mory's right for freedom of speech?It is LeBron’s fault he didn’t know that Morey was going to send that tweet out and therefore he didn’t pay attention to the consequences of playing in NBA-mandated games in China? Wut
So Morey should have known that tweeting that out could put the players’ safety in jeopardy, but the players are good to plead ignorance that China is so horrible that a mere tweet could put them in jeopardy?It is LeBron’s fault he didn’t know that Morey was going to send that tweet out and therefore he didn’t pay attention to the consequences of playing in NBA-mandated games in China? Wut
I don’t disagree. I probably wouldn’t expect that while being potentially held up in China but he could have when he returned to the states.
Lol no. His comments when back in the states were wrong. I can see why he was annoyed because of the situation it put everybody in, but he still didn’t handle that well.
The players were in China because they had to be. It wasn’t a summer tour where individuals go to peddle their sneakers. I don’t know what your point is here. The CBA mandates the teams and players follow the schedule outlined for them.
I know. What he said back here was probably a low for him. I don’t think anybody had defended the text of his actual comments. I thought we were just talking his business skills lol
Then I don't understand what you guys are arguing. The whole second part of this thread was about James' comments on Monday when he was safely in the US and he was still saying Morey was wrong and that Morey wasn't educated on the whole China situation. When I called James a moron, it was about these comments. It wasn't even that crazy for me to say that as almost every news outlet was saying the same thing. Hell, even the Undefeated had an article about James missing a chance to help people while instead choosing money.
I think I jumped in on the he wasn’t an entrepreneur part, which is an extremely dumb sentence to write out.
Ok, fair enough. I can understand that you came in midway through. But my entrepreneur part was not me saying he wasn't one. JV wrote that he was possibly the best entrepreneur of all time. And that his proof was that he was able to become a great basketball player.
let’s just chalk all this up to us all being people who like to argue too much. Lol. I think it is reasonable for everybody to have a different opinion on what he really does without any of us really knowing what he does.
And that's fair. I never claimed to know what he does. But I think even with the limited knowledge we all have, it's pretty safe to say he's not the best entrepreneur ever. I mean, that's not a stretch, right?
I agree. Not the best, I wouldn’t say that.
Agreed. I think that’s sorta the crux of the issue. I think he didn’t say that because I think the $ is more of an issue to him than any safety concerns were. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s what I get out of it knowing what we know of the story at this point.
Anybody that says this becomes a public enemy of China. Unfortunately when you deal with a communist regime that is the risk you take. Don't cross them or you lose everything you have in their country since they control everything.
I don’t disagree. It was a misstep for sure.
Not at all. Even with our slight points of contention--I think we are all pretty much in agreement that the content of Morey's tweet was right on. I did mention that I felt like even he sold out by backtracking his tweet right after he posted it when his boss (Fertita) obviously was displeased about it. People are ambushing Lebron for his stance because he put finances over morals--and my point was that Morey did the exact same thing when he retracted it. His original tweet was admirable---his retraction was lame and questionable.
Not at all similar. LeBron won't lose his livelihood for sticking up for free speech and putting his support behind HK. The NBA can't fire him. The NBA can fire Morey. These are two different people.
People criticized Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods for not using their fame to take political stands. When your money is your main priority, it's easy to understand why they did/didn't do.
Exactly, he needs his vanity Space Jam 2 movie to do well and sell a ton of tickets and merch in China. He isn't going to let his conscious get in the way of that.
It is similar--you have two multi-millionaires that are having a hard time putting their morals above their money--no matter how you want to spin it. Morey's last contract was for 5 years 40 million dollars alone. Conservatively--he probably has a net worth of somewhere north of $40-50million+. He has a superb resume, a degree from MIT, and his notoriety alone would support him making millions of dollars per year even outside of the NBA. There is zero reason to believe that Morey's livelihood would be altered at all if he got a private sector job outside of the NBA. Morals are morals regardless of who the person's employer is. This might be the root of where you and I disagree. If so--we can just agree to disagree and that's fine. I really don't want to go back and forth about this.
The difference is that Jordan and Tiger never claimed to be SJW fighting for those who didn't have a voice.EYLive said:
Exactly. LeBron & Kerr like to shine the light when it's cool...but risk their incomes? No comment.
