Contender philosophy (1 Viewer)

[FUBAR]

It appears in the TO thread that we differ on our philosophies.

I'm thinking about this and realized that if I'm a contender, I'd much rather have a stud player who is currently performing at a star level retire from my roster, or even fall off the face of FF rather than trade a top player for a possible decent prospect.

Obviously, if you aren't a contender, this is different, also if you can get a star young player, that's different.

Here, I'm thinking about trades like TO for 1.09

 

[Cookiemonster]

In a free, just for fun league, I trade him. It's more important for me to remain fairly competitive over the long-haul than to have the best shot. If I were playing a $ league, you try to win in any given year at all expenses 'cause 1 win will pay for your next 6 or 7 years. For $, I keep him and let him rot on my roster. Nobody will give you fair value for a player that old. Not even if he were a QB.

 

[Cookiemonster]

Let him retire off my roster [ 1 ] [16.67%]

Trade him for an ok prospect [ 0 ] [0.00%]

Depends on my depth [ 4 ] [66.67%]

Depends - $ league or fun? [ 1 ] [16.67%]

otjer [ 0 ] [0.00%]

Screw depth @ WR. Is there any other position that's so easy to find starters at? Guys come out of nowhere every year @ WR. You only see about 3/year of those @ RB, and two fade away the next year. The learning curve for WRs is very particular to every player, scheme and coach in that guys will break out anywhere from year 2 to year 5. Fill up your roster at the end of the draft with prospect WRs if you have to. You'll likely get a couple to stick. If you're talking "stud WR depth," play larger leagues.

 

[FUBAR]

Let him retire off my roster [ 1 ] [16.67%]

Trade him for an ok prospect [ 0 ] [0.00%]

Depends on my depth [ 4 ] [66.67%]

Depends - $ league or fun? [ 1 ] [16.67%]

otjer [ 0 ] [0.00%]

Screw depth @ WR. Is there any other position that's so easy to find starters at? Guys come out of nowhere every year @ WR. You only see about 3/year of those @ RB, and two fade away the next year. The learning curve for WRs is very particular to every player, scheme and coach in that guys will break out anywhere from year 2 to year 5. Fill up your roster at the end of the draft with prospect WRs if you have to. You'll likely get a couple to stick. If you're talking "stud WR depth," play larger leagues.

Are you talking about WR3 quality depth or guys who will help you win your league? Out of the top 22, by ADP, in PDSL leagues (a decent indicator of how things went last year), none of these really came out of "nowhere" except Welker and White. A few rookies were relevant, but they went higher than 1.09 in most leagues.

mytagid = Math.floor( Math.random() * 100 );document.write("

1.12 R. Moss WR1 1.09 1.10 1.06 2.01

2.03 R. Wayne WR2 2.04 2.03 1.13 2.05

2.04 T. Owens WR3 2.02 2.02 2.01 2.09

2.07 B. Edwards WR4 2.06 2.08 2.04 2.12

2.08 L. Fitzgerald WR5 2.09 2.11 2.07 2.08

2.09 A. Johnson WR6 2.13 2.15 2.03 2.07

2.10 S. Smith - CAR WR7 2.07 2.13 2.10 2.11

2.13 M. Colston WR8 2.14 2.14 2.14 2.15

2.14 TJ Housh WR9 2.11 2.09 3.01 3.03

3.01 T. Holt WR10 3.07 3.03 2.15 2.16

3.02 W. Welker WR11 3.08 2.16 2.16 3.12

3.04 Ch. Johnson WR12 2.15 3.02 3.03 3.06

3.05 B. Marshall WR13 3.01 3.07 3.08 3.04

3.08 P. Burress WR14 3.10 3.01 3.04 3.15

3.09 A. Boldin WR14 3.13 3.05 3.07 3.11

3.10 Ro. Williams WR15 3.12 3.11 3.10 4.01

3.16 S. Holmes WR16 4.01 3.14 3.16 4.10

4.02 D. Bowe WR17 4.03 4.05 3.11 4.02

4.06 G. Jennings WR18 4.10 3.13 4.08 4.16

4.08 L. Evans WR19 4.11 4.01 4.12 4.09

4.12 Ca. Johnson WR20 3.14 4.11 4.13 5.06

4.13 R. White WR21 4.12 4.04 4.15 4.15

4.14 J. Cotchery WR22 4.15 5.08 4.09 5.01*** SPOILER ALERT! Click this link to display the potential spoiler text in this box. ***");document.close();

(not a spoiler, but to save space)

 

[JPeso]

Out of the top 22, by ADP, in PDSL leagues (a decent indicator of how things went last year), none of these really came out of "nowhere" except Welker and White. A few rookies were relevant, but they went higher than 1.09 in most leagues. 3.05 B. Marshall WR13 3.01 3.07 3.08 3.04

Marshall went in rounds 7-10 in all of my leagues last year. Was he not somewhat of a surprise?

 

[FUBAR]

Out of the top 22, by ADP, in PDSL leagues (a decent indicator of how things went last year), none of these really came out of "nowhere" except Welker and White. A few rookies were relevant, but they went higher than 1.09 in most leagues. 3.05 B. Marshall WR13 3.01 3.07 3.08 3.04

Marshall went in rounds 7-10 in all of my leagues last year. Was he not somewhat of a surprise?

not if you were an FBG

 

[King of the Wolfies]

Out of the top 22, by ADP, in PDSL leagues (a decent indicator of how things went last year), none of these really came out of "nowhere" except Welker and White. A few rookies were relevant, but they went higher than 1.09 in most leagues. 3.05 B. Marshall WR13 3.01 3.07 3.08 3.04

Marshall went in rounds 7-10 in all of my leagues last year. Was he not somewhat of a surprise?

Anyone who watched Cutler/Marshall at the end of 2006 could see the connection those 2 made.

 

[EBF]

It really depends on your roster.

If I'm contending, I keep him.

If I'm rebuilding, I move him.

I'd move him in either case if I could get a guy like Anquan Boldin for him.

 

[Crippler]

A good team has built up a mix of vets and youth. As long as your roster permits it. But if you have a small roster, than easy to acquire youth on the Waiver wire as guys like Dwayne Jarrett and Robert Meachum get cut because cant afford to carry them. If large roster, than your always added a young guy or 2, each year. There is always steals in the draft and steals in Free Agency. One thing that is certain that youth is always overrated. You dont have to look any further than the data put up for picks 6 to 11 for the last 10 years(TO thread) and the success rate of youth being less than 17%. There is exceptions to all rules for age and when you look back, you say you can make relations and how did they do. Jerry Rice for WR(paid little for and helped me win a championship), Curtis Martin for RB(gave away his last big year and he helped the other guy win a championship), Brett Favre for QB(who I let retire on my roster but he won me a championship last year) that all were successful when owners wrote them off. If you feel your getting a player, that is great and already have some youth than go for it. Chances to win championships dont come along very often. Got to take your shots. The all FA teams are pretty impressive I am sure in most leagues in the end. I have just seen so many young players that owners would not trade and it comes back to haunt them. I can tell you I have never seen any team do a complete rebuild using a draft and not trading for vets to make a run at a title in the end. One guy in a league has had 20 1st round picks in the last 7 years and has missed the playoffs for the last 6 and barely made playoffs when he started his youth movement.

 

[Raagsreth]

otjer

 

[Riffraff]

I voted "depends on depth" because you may have a suitable replacement that allows you to deal one of your starters.

But if that wasn't an option, I would let him stay on the squad until he falls off the FF cliff.

High potential WRs come along every other week. Few live up to the hype.

 

[Cookiemonster]

Let him retire off my roster [ 1 ] [16.67%]

Trade him for an ok prospect [ 0 ] [0.00%]

Depends on my depth [ 4 ] [66.67%]

Depends - $ league or fun? [ 1 ] [16.67%]

otjer [ 0 ] [0.00%]

Screw depth @ WR. Is there any other position that's so easy to find starters at? Guys come out of nowhere every year @ WR. You only see about 3/year of those @ RB, and two fade away the next year. The learning curve for WRs is very particular to every player, scheme and coach in that guys will break out anywhere from year 2 to year 5. Fill up your roster at the end of the draft with prospect WRs if you have to. You'll likely get a couple to stick. If you're talking "stud WR depth," play larger leagues.

Are you talking about WR3 quality depth or guys who will help you win your league? Out of the top 22, by ADP, in PDSL leagues (a decent indicator of how things went last year), none of these really came out of "nowhere" except Welker and White. A few rookies were relevant, but they went higher than 1.09 in most leagues.

mytagid = Math.floor( Math.random() * 100 );document.write("

1.12 R. Moss WR1 1.09 1.10 1.06 2.01

2.03 R. Wayne WR2 2.04 2.03 1.13 2.05

2.04 T. Owens WR3 2.02 2.02 2.01 2.09

2.07 B. Edwards WR4 2.06 2.08 2.04 2.12

2.08 L. Fitzgerald WR5 2.09 2.11 2.07 2.08

2.09 A. Johnson WR6 2.13 2.15 2.03 2.07

2.10 S. Smith - CAR WR7 2.07 2.13 2.10 2.11

2.13 M. Colston WR8 2.14 2.14 2.14 2.15

2.14 TJ Housh WR9 2.11 2.09 3.01 3.03

3.01 T. Holt WR10 3.07 3.03 2.15 2.16

3.02 W. Welker WR11 3.08 2.16 2.16 3.12

3.04 Ch. Johnson WR12 2.15 3.02 3.03 3.06

3.05 B. Marshall WR13 3.01 3.07 3.08 3.04

3.08 P. Burress WR14 3.10 3.01 3.04 3.15

3.09 A. Boldin WR14 3.13 3.05 3.07 3.11

3.10 Ro. Williams WR15 3.12 3.11 3.10 4.01

3.16 S. Holmes WR16 4.01 3.14 3.16 4.10

4.02 D. Bowe WR17 4.03 4.05 3.11 4.02

4.06 G. Jennings WR18 4.10 3.13 4.08 4.16

4.08 L. Evans WR19 4.11 4.01 4.12 4.09

4.12 Ca. Johnson WR20 3.14 4.11 4.13 5.06

4.13 R. White WR21 4.12 4.04 4.15 4.15

4.14 J. Cotchery WR22 4.15 5.08 4.09 5.01*** SPOILER ALERT! Click this link to display the potential spoiler text in this box. ***");document.close();

(not a spoiler, but to save space)

Examples on my roster have been Cotchery, Battle, Bruce, Engram and James Jones and several others on other rosters like Furry, McDonald, Reggie Williams. I could go on and on. I'm not talking about studs that you plug and play every week, but if you're good at WDIS then you can definately make a living on those types.

 

[millertyme1]

Out of the top 22, by ADP, in PDSL leagues (a decent indicator of how things went last year), none of these really came out of "nowhere" except Welker and White. A few rookies were relevant, but they went higher than 1.09 in most leagues. 3.05 B. Marshall WR13 3.01 3.07 3.08 3.04

Marshall went in rounds 7-10 in all of my leagues last year. Was he not somewhat of a surprise?

Anyone who watched Cutler/Marshall at the end of 2006 could see the connection those 2 made.

I'm sure he noticed. He still went 7-10+ in most leagues last year. Which is all he stated.

 

[alg]

I said let him retire off my roster. Generally such a player will be worth more in performance than the value you could get in trade.

 

[FUBAR]

Examples on my roster have been Cotchery, Battle, Bruce, Engram and James Jones and several others on other rosters like Furry, McDonald, Reggie Williams. I could go on and on. I'm not talking about studs that you plug and play every week, but if you're good at WDIS then you can definately make a living on those types.

Sure, but if you're giving up TO because you have James Jones last year, you're hopefully not trading him based on your depth (short term anyway).If your point was to not worry about depth in the future and keep TO for now unless you got good value, that makes more sense to my way of thinking.

 

[GregR_2]

Like so many other philosophies in FF, I think the best philosophy here is to adapt your action to your situation. Things like depth of your team at that position, number of aging starters on your team at all positions, the quality of your competing owners compared to you (i.e. how hard it is to stay competitive or rebuild), roster size compared to number of starters, etc, are going to change the value that aging stud has for you. I don't think there is any right answer.

If I lean one way or another, I'd rather stay competitive over time. Given that the best overall team frequently doesn't win the championship, I want the most shots at I can get. But then again, I'm normally in the top 3 teams in my leagues most every year. If I was consistently in the middle of the pack and seldom had a shot at a championship, I very likely would feel differently and might be more willing to go all out for a championship run.

So, I think being adaptable to what your situation is, is the key.

 

[Buckna]

Out of the top 22, by ADP, in PDSL leagues (a decent indicator of how things went last year), none of these really came out of "nowhere" except Welker and White. A few rookies were relevant, but they went higher than 1.09 in most leagues. 3.05 B. Marshall WR13 3.01 3.07 3.08 3.04

Marshall went in rounds 7-10 in all of my leagues last year. Was he not somewhat of a surprise?

Anyone who watched Cutler/Marshall at the end of 2006 could see the connection those 2 made.

I'm sure he noticed. He still went 7-10+ in most leagues last year. Which is all he stated.

Yeah, I gotta call BS or at least statistical anamoly on this. According to ADP data on FBG's website for preseason 2007, Marshall went 140th overall and WR 49 on average.