Convince Me That Derek Jeter (1 Viewer)

[ScottNorwood]

Another Jeteriffic stat:

32 SBs

3 CS

That's pretty damn good

 

[posty]

Bill James's Win Shares says Jeter is the MVP of the American League.

And if that is used, then Carlos Beltran should be the NL MVP, when in fact, he should finish no higher than 3rd IMO...Plus I don't understand the love of people thinking that Bill James stats is the bible. Didn't he also say that a team can win a World Series going closer-by-committee (see 2003 Red Sox listening to him) and then they go get Keith Foulke in 2004 and win the entire thing?

 

[igbomb]

1. Johan Santana

2. David Ortiz

3. Justin Morneau

Santana has had more impact on his team than any other player in the race. And spare the 'only pitched once every five days' argument. Someone made a great point in another thread that when all is said and done, Santana will have an impact on many, many more PAs than any hitter will.

 

[Funkley]

Santana has been good, as usual, but not special compared to other seasons. Ortiz has 50 homerun's but a weak batting average and not many more RBI than Morneau.....and no shot at the playoffs either. The AL MVP has to be from a playoff team given that the stats of the top candidates are so close. If a starting pitcher is going to win the MVP he'd better have a 24/25 win season. Not 18.

 

[ThisGuy]

1. Johan Santana2. David Ortiz3. Justin MorneauSantana has had more impact on his team than any other player in the race. And spare the 'only pitched once every five days' argument. Someone made a great point in another thread that when all is said and done, Santana will have an impact on many, many more PAs than any hitter will.

That is awful.

 

[ThisGuy]

Santana has been good, as usual, but not special compared to other seasons. Ortiz has 50 homerun's but a weak batting average and not many more RBI than Morneau.....and no shot at the playoffs either. The AL MVP has to be from a playoff team given that the stats of the top candidates are so close. If a starting pitcher is going to win the MVP he'd better have a 24/25 win season. Not 18.

 

[igbomb]

1. Johan Santana2. David Ortiz3. Justin MorneauSantana has had more impact on his team than any other player in the race. And spare the 'only pitched once every five days' argument. Someone made a great point in another thread that when all is said and done, Santana will have an impact on many, many more PAs than any hitter will.

That is awful.

Do you honestly think that Jeter is more important to the Yanks success than Santana has been to the Twins? It's not even close.

 

[ooofffaaa]

FYI . . . he's not even the best SS in New York.

I can't believe no one else jumped on this stupid comment.It reminds me of the ######## Mets fan who told me all about Edgardo Alphonzo being "head and shoulders" a better player than Jeter.

I knew I'd get a rise out of Yankee fans with that comment. Surprised it was only you.If you would take off your Yankee homer glasses for just a minute you would realize it's a lot closer than you think . . .Jeter vs ReyesRuns: 110 - 119HR's: 14 - 19RBI's: 95 - 77SB's: 32 - 57AVG: .339 - .299OBP: 414 - .350K's: 98 - 77Sure Jeter has a big advanatge in RBI's, AVG & OBP but Reyes has him beat everywhere else.Without Reyes the Mets do not have the season they just had.

 

[Dope]

Jeter is 9th in the Major in RC...some crazy Runs Created stat that mixes a whole bunch of stuff together.

Top AL guys

Ortiz 130.3

Sizemore 127.1

Hafner 124.4

Jeter 120.5

Dye 117.4

Thome 115.9

Morneau 114.9

I like the RC stat because it doesn't give the double run bonus to HR hitters.

 

[Funkley]

1. Johan Santana2. David Ortiz3. Justin MorneauSantana has had more impact on his team than any other player in the race. And spare the 'only pitched once every five days' argument. Someone made a great point in another thread that when all is said and done, Santana will have an impact on many, many more PAs than any hitter will.

That is awful.

Do you honestly think that Jeter is more important to the Yanks success than Santana has been to the Twins? It's not even close.

The Twins have won 72 times this year when Santana didn't win. How many games would the Yankees win without Jeter? I'd say it's very close but I'm not giving the MVP too a pitcher that posts an average (for him) season. If 18 wins is your benchmark then a position player will never win the MVP again.

 

[Dope]

FYI . . . he's not even the best SS in New York.

I can't believe no one else jumped on this stupid comment.It reminds me of the ######## Mets fan who told me all about Edgardo Alphonzo being "head and shoulders" a better player than Jeter.

I knew I'd get a rise out of Yankee fans with that comment. Surprised it was only you.If you would take off your Yankee homer glasses for just a minute you would realize it's a lot closer than you think . . .

I'm actually a rare breed. I'm a yankee fan that doesn't despise the Mets. I rooted for the Mets in 86 and I would always root for a NY team over a non-NY team.I like Reyes and the things he does...but to compare him to Jeter would be like comparing Grant Hill after two seasons to Michael Jordan.Reyes has years of proving himself before he should be honestly in the conversation.Like it or not...Jeter is probably the best SS New York has ever seen.

 

[ScottNorwood]

FYI . . . he's not even the best SS in New York.

I can't believe no one else jumped on this stupid comment.It reminds me of the ######## Mets fan who told me all about Edgardo Alphonzo being "head and shoulders" a better player than Jeter.

I knew I'd get a rise out of Yankee fans with that comment. Surprised it was only you.If you would take off your Yankee homer glasses for just a minute you would realize it's a lot closer than you think . . .

I'm actually a rare breed. I'm a yankee fan that doesn't despise the Mets. I rooted for the Mets in 86 and I would always root for a NY team over a non-NY team.I like Reyes and the things he does...but to compare him to Jeter would be like comparing Grant Hill after two seasons to Michael Jordan.Reyes has years of proving himself before he should be honestly in the conversation.Like it or not...Jeter is probably the best SS New York has ever seen.

Wayne Tolleson down?

 

[ooofffaaa]

FYI . . . he's not even the best SS in New York.

I can't believe no one else jumped on this stupid comment.It reminds me of the ######## Mets fan who told me all about Edgardo Alphonzo being "head and shoulders" a better player than Jeter.

I knew I'd get a rise out of Yankee fans with that comment. Surprised it was only you.If you would take off your Yankee homer glasses for just a minute you would realize it's a lot closer than you think . . .

I'm actually a rare breed. I'm a yankee fan that doesn't despise the Mets. I rooted for the Mets in 86 and I would always root for a NY team over a non-NY team.I like Reyes and the things he does...but to compare him to Jeter would be like comparing Grant Hill after two seasons to Michael Jordan.Reyes has years of proving himself before he should be honestly in the conversation.Like it or not...Jeter is probably the best SS New York has ever seen.

Fred "The Chicken" Stanley down?Then we agree we're both rare breeds when it comes to NY baseball fans. If the Yankees played the Braves in the World Series there is no way in hell I'd root for the Braves.I wasn't comparing what Reyes & Jeter have done in years past. There is no comparison. I'm talking this year. Jeter deserves a lot of credit for what he did this year, especially with Matsui & Sheffield going down early.

 

[Funkley]

Btw, my vote is for Morneau to win slightly and I mean slightly ahead of Jeter. No one else is in the discussion now that the Red Sox and White Sox have fallen back. Santana wins Cy Young easily. Take a look at Santana's stats. He's going to fall almost exactly upon his 3 year averages but they aren't MVP worthy stats if 2004 and 2005 weren't.

ETA: I'll even tell you why so you don't think I'm only being a homer.

Next to Ryan Howard, Morneau has been the best offensive player in baseball since June. Not coincidentally, the Twins have been the best team in baseball since June.

 

[ThisGuy]

1. Johan Santana2. David Ortiz3. Justin MorneauSantana has had more impact on his team than any other player in the race. And spare the 'only pitched once every five days' argument. Someone made a great point in another thread that when all is said and done, Santana will have an impact on many, many more PAs than any hitter will.

That is awful.

Do you honestly think that Jeter is more important to the Yanks success than Santana has been to the Twins? It's not even close.

But he is a pitcher and they have an award for the best pitcher. The Yanks would not be the same team without Derek Jeter playing everyday. Just like the Twins would be nowhere if it weren't for Morneau.

 

[TheRegulator]

Morneau. Santana is no better or worse than the last couple years but Morneau's emergence is what lifted the offense and the entire team.

This is the key fact that is being missed here. Granted, put me in the camp that would probably never give a pitcher the MVP, but its Morneau's bat and Liriano's emergence that brought this team out of its funk. Santana has been great all year, but its the bats that have led this teams resurgence and kept it together when the pitching has been suspect. I can't access stats here, but take a look at when Morneau starting hitting well and I bet its right about the same time the Twins started winning.

 

[ThisGuy]

Btw, my vote is for Morneau to win slightly and I mean slightly ahead of Jeter. No one else is in the discussion now that the Red Sox and White Sox have fallen back. Santana wins Cy Young easily. Take a look at Santana's stats. He's going to fall almost exactly upon his 3 year averages but they aren't MVP worthy stats if 2004 and 2005 weren't.

I think it is between Jeter and Morneau as well and would not be upset if either of them end up with it.

 

[Dave Baker]

1. Johan Santana2. David Ortiz3. Justin MorneauSantana has had more impact on his team than any other player in the race. And spare the 'only pitched once every five days' argument. Someone made a great point in another thread that when all is said and done, Santana will have an impact on many, many more PAs than any hitter will.

Some people act as if the Twins are analgous to Carlton's Phillies. They aren't. Just by looking at your post, and several other arguments here, the Twins have had significant help by the guy you listed as third, Morneau. Mauer hasn't hurt either. And while Santana is easily the Cy Young winner, the Twins haven't exactly been disappointed with Liriano either.The Yankees have scored more runs than anyone, but the Twins have not exactly embarrassed themsevles in that department. They lead the league in hitting. And the Twins, led of course by Santana, are a half point better than the Yankees in ERA.The Twins are not a barren wasteland of talent beyond one player.

 

[Funkley]

Btw, my vote is for Morneau to win slightly and I mean slightly ahead of Jeter. No one else is in the discussion now that the Red Sox and White Sox have fallen back. Santana wins Cy Young easily. Take a look at Santana's stats. He's going to fall almost exactly upon his 3 year averages but they aren't MVP worthy stats if 2004 and 2005 weren't.

I think it is between Jeter and Morneau as well and would not be upset if either of them end up with it.

Agreed. Jeter is plenty worthy.

 

[Funkley]

1. Johan Santana2. David Ortiz3. Justin MorneauSantana has had more impact on his team than any other player in the race. And spare the 'only pitched once every five days' argument. Someone made a great point in another thread that when all is said and done, Santana will have an impact on many, many more PAs than any hitter will.

Some people act as if the Twins are analgous to Carlton's Phillies. They aren't. Just by looking at your post, and several other arguments here, the Twins have had significant help by the guy you listed as third, Morneau. Mauer hasn't hurt either. And while Santana is easily the Cy Young winner, the Twins haven't exactly been disappointed with Liriano either.The Yankees have scored more runs than anyone, but the Twins have not exactly embarrassed themsevles in that department. They lead the league in hitting. And the Twins, led of course by Santana, are a half point better than the Yankees in ERA.The Twins are not a barren wasteland of talent beyond one player.

Excellent post.

 

[tietzjd]

1. Johan Santana2. David Ortiz3. Justin MorneauSantana has had more impact on his team than any other player in the race. And spare the 'only pitched once every five days' argument. Someone made a great point in another thread that when all is said and done, Santana will have an impact on many, many more PAs than any hitter will.

Some people act as if the Twins are analgous to Carlton's Phillies. They aren't. Just by looking at your post, and several other arguments here, the Twins have had significant help by the guy you listed as third, Morneau. Mauer hasn't hurt either. And while Santana is easily the Cy Young winner, the Twins haven't exactly been disappointed with Liriano either.The Yankees have scored more runs than anyone, but the Twins have not exactly embarrassed themsevles in that department. They lead the league in hitting. And the Twins, led of course by Santana, are a half point better than the Yankees in ERA.The Twins are not a barren wasteland of talent beyond one player.

Excellent post.

Agree. Twins have talant. The only reason I listed a line up was to combat the silly idea that Line up with Jeter,Gambi and A-rod batting 3-4-5 is not good line up. Or even a line up that should not win 60% of there games. When you put in Damon,Abreu,Matsui, Sheffield with any kind of pitching the NY should win 70% of there games or more.

 

[tietzjd]

Some Cool team stats

RK TEAM G |AB |R |H |2B |3B |HR |TB |RBI |BA |OBP |SLG |OPS

1) NY Yankees 152 5296 867 1503 305 21 191 2423 841 .284 .364 .458 .821

6) Minnesota 151 5220 756 1494 263 34 133 2224 711 .286 .347 . 426 .773

RK TEAM G W L ERA Sv CG SHO IP ER R BB SO BAA

2) Minnesota 151 90 61 3.99 37 1 6 1341.1 595 641 329 1100 .266

5) NY Yankees 152 92 60 4.40 41 5 8 1355.2 663 715 470 960 .260

It will not keep the format sorry.

 

[reg]

1. Johan Santana2. David Ortiz3. Justin MorneauSantana has had more impact on his team than any other player in the race. And spare the 'only pitched once every five days' argument. Someone made a great point in another thread that when all is said and done, Santana will have an impact on many, many more PAs than any hitter will.

That is awful.

Do you honestly think that Jeter is more important to the Yanks success than Santana has been to the Twins? It's not even close.

The Twins have won 72 times this year when Santana didn't win. How many games would the Yankees win without Jeter? I'd say it's very close but I'm not giving the MVP too a pitcher that posts an average (for him) season. If 18 wins is your benchmark then a position player will never win the MVP again.

I don't disagree that Santana shouldn't get MVP this year, however I heard this point made on the radio and thought it was pretty good. I am sorry I don't remember who made it.With Santana you don't only get him on the days he pitches. You also get him on the day before he pitches and the day after. The day before you can burn your bullpen, because it is very unlikely you will need them when Santana pitches. The day after he pitches you have a completely fresh bullpen because they all had a full days rest. Now I am a pretty casual fan, I don't know much of anything except the Twins, but it seems like a pretty good argument to counter your 'won 72 times when Santana didn't win' point. I am in agreement with alot of the others that 33 deserves it more.

 

[Kirby]

Most Value-able Players

Frank Thomas $500,000

Justin Morneau $385,000