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Cosell Talks: NFC West Draft Pick Post-Mortem (1 Viewer)

Faust

MVP
Cosell Talks: NFC West Draft Pick Post-Mortem

by Greg Cosell

I am always fascinated by the immediate need to evaluate, dissect and ultimately judge the quality of each teams pick in the NFL Draft literally seconds after that selection is made. The reaction to the picks has become almost as momentous as the excitement, the enthusiasm, and the emotional debates in the weeks leading up to the draft.

Judging from many of the Twitter responses I received, a large number of fans base their opinion of a player solely on where he is drafted. Rueben Randle, the wide receiver from LSU, was a prime example. I liked Randle on film. I saw similarities to the Giants Hakeem Nicks. As the second round advanced, and Randle remained on the board, many tweeted to essentially say I had misevaluated Randle. My response, and one to keep in mind over these next few months: no one is right or wrong about a player based on where he is drafted. He has not played a single down in the NFL. By the way, I since learned that the Giants, if RB David Wilson was not on the board at pick 32 in the first round, would have selected Randle in that spot. Their GM, Jerry Reese, one of the best in the business, also made the Randle/Nicks comparison in his press conference.

All this is prelude to a discussion of the NFC West, the division that produced the most raised eyebrows the first two nights of the draft.

It began with Seattles choice of West Virginias Bruce Irvin with the 15th overall selection. On cue, we immediately heard the time-worn clichés reach and overdrafted. I assumed those two terms were intended to convey the following: 1) Irvin was not good enough to be chosen that high, in the middle of the first round; and 2) the Seahawks could have waited to select Irvin later in the draft. Really? How does anyone know that? All the experts were familiar with every teams draft board, thus knowing where Irvin was graded by each team? Its so absurd its laughable.

Lets discuss Irvin the player, and place him in the context of NFL 2012. It could easily be argued based on tape study that Irvin was the most explosive edge pass rusher in the draft. Think about that for a minute. The most important defensive priority in todays NFL is rushing the quarterback. You can go all the way back to Hall of Fame coach Bill Walsh in the 1980s; Walsh, always a step ahead, said that fourth quarter pass rush was the key to winning. His theory has evolved to the point where it encompasses all four quarters. Thus, the Seahawks selected a player with explosive attributes at a premium position.

What about the argument that hes not a three-down player? Thats another use of conventional wisdom that does not withstand further scrutiny. Irvin will likely be on the field close to 60 percent of the plays in an increasingly pass-first league. In the NFL, if you cannot defend the pass, you will not win. Last year, the San Francisco 49ers selected Aldon Smith with the seventh pick in the first round. I watched every 49ers defensive play in 2011. Smith did not play more than 20 snaps in the base 3-4 defense. He was exclusively a sub-package player, playing only in nickel and dime personnel. He had 14 sacks in the regular season, and two more in the playoffs. Was he a poor draft choice because he was not a three-down player? Please, lets think before we react.

The 49ers turned heads with their selection of wide receiver A.J. Jenkins at No. 30. Jenkins was another player not discussed much in the weeks prior to the draft. Minimal publicity translated into a reaction of reach when his name was called near the end of the first round. Again, based on what criteria? Those who evaluated Jenkins on film, i.e. NFL teams, saw a complete receiver who ran short, intermediate and vertical routes at Illinois. He was naturally quick and fluid as a route runner, he showed excellent body control and flexibility, and at times he displayed explosive vertical ability. Jenkins was a quick accelerator; he reached top speed in a hurry, especially with free access to the ball.

Remember what team drafted him: the 49ers. This is a team whose offensive foundation features run personnel and run formations. That almost always results in defenses responding with fronts and coverages that require a safety to be involved in run support. Corners, in run-based defensive concepts, rarely play press on the outside. That gives Jenkins the free access mentioned above a circumstance that will maximize his vertical strengths. One more thing you saw watching Jenkins on film: he played both outside and in the slot, so he has experience in multiple alignments.

The next wide receiver chosen, by the St. Louis Rams with the first pick of the second round, was Brian Quick from Appalachian State. The Rams selected him ahead of more celebrated and widely discussed receivers Stephen Hill and Randle. Quick was another player who, seconds after his name was read, was branded with those disparaging descriptions of reach and overdrafted. That resulted from two things: he came from a smaller school and he struggled early in Senior Bowl week against higher quality competition.

Many will use the small school component of Quicks résumé to suggest he will have a much larger learning curve to adjust to the NFL. Again, another myth tossed around as if its gospel. Watch any college wide receiver, especially one that played in a spread, and you will see limited routes. Justin Blackmon went to Oklahoma State, and he has no greater route running experience that Quick. They both played in spread offenses. In fact, studying both extensively on film, you can make the argument that Quick, whos significantly bigger than Blackmon, is more naturally athletic. Quick is a very fluid and smooth athlete with excellent lateral quickness and deceptive vertical speed due to stride length. Its not a stretch at all, when you analyze Quicks physical and athletic attributes, to understand why the Rams selected him early. With his size and overall skill set, he has a chance to be the best wide receiver in this draft class. I know some teams saw him that way. Certainly, there are questions, and many variables will factor into the equation, as they do with any receiver entering the NFL, including Blackmon and Jenkins.

My point is this: Think through the process and all thats involved before you come to a conclusion. Challenge accepted assumptions. NFL teams spend a lot of time studying, evaluating, and researching, not only players in any given draft, but trends and tendencies over time. Of course, they will make mistakes, as we all do. But as I said earlier, and its worth repeating, no 2012 draft choice has yet played in the NFL so his value cannot yet be accurately quantified.
 
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Thanks for sharing this.

Greg Cosell is far too intelligent and rational to get much play from the average message board crowd. People flock to hyperbole and egotistical boasting. Cosell refuses to pander to the masses.

 
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Thanks for sharing this.<br><br>Greg Cosell is far too intelligent and rational to get much play from the average message board crowd. People flock to hyperbole and egotistical boasting. Cosell refuses to pander to the masses.
Nice try Cosell.
 
Thanks for sharing this.<br><br>Greg Cosell is far too intelligent and rational to get much play from the average message board crowd. People flock to hyperbole and egotistical boasting. Cosell refuses to pander to the masses.
Or in other words he'll take both sides on the coin and claim he was right later????
 
Thanks for sharing this.<br><br>Greg Cosell is far too intelligent and rational to get much play from the average message board crowd. People flock to hyperbole and egotistical boasting. Cosell refuses to pander to the masses.
Or in other words he'll take both sides on the coin and claim he was right later????
The guy has been involved in the business for quite some time. Do you have any evidence of him promoting himself?I'm surprised to see this response. I wouldn't have taken you to be one of those that has a hard time seeing shades of gray in the world. How are Raider fans enjoying LB Aaron Curry? If you remember back a few years he was widely considered the "safest" pick in the NFL draft. That piece of common sense didn't work out so well.
 
Thanks for sharing this.<br><br>Greg Cosell is far too intelligent and rational to get much play from the average message board crowd. People flock to hyperbole and egotistical boasting. Cosell refuses to pander to the masses.
Or in other words he'll take both sides on the coin and claim he was right later????
The guy has been involved in the business for quite some time. Do you have any evidence of him promoting himself?I'm surprised to see this response. I wouldn't have taken you to be one of those that has a hard time seeing shades of gray in the world. How are Raider fans enjoying LB Aaron Curry? If you remember back a few years he was widely considered the "safest" pick in the NFL draft. That piece of common sense didn't work out so well.
In his mock draft which is suppose to be "based on my film study and my sense of team needs" he does not put Bruce Irvin, A.J. Jenkins, or Brian Quick in the first round. Now after these players were picked earlier than expected he seems to provide support for the picks or at least a wait and see approach. Sounds like trying to take both sides and to me.
 
Thanks for sharing this.<br><br>Greg Cosell is far too intelligent and rational to get much play from the average message board crowd. People flock to hyperbole and egotistical boasting. Cosell refuses to pander to the masses.
Or in other words he'll take both sides on the coin and claim he was right later????
The guy has been involved in the business for quite some time. Do you have any evidence of him promoting himself?I'm surprised to see this response. I wouldn't have taken you to be one of those that has a hard time seeing shades of gray in the world. How are Raider fans enjoying LB Aaron Curry? If you remember back a few years he was widely considered the "safest" pick in the NFL draft. That piece of common sense didn't work out so well.
In his mock draft which is suppose to be "based on my film study and my sense of team needs" he does not put Bruce Irvin, A.J. Jenkins, or Brian Quick in the first round. Now after these players were picked earlier than expected he seems to provide support for the picks or at least a wait and see approach. Sounds like trying to take both sides and to me.
Thanks. This is the sort response I expected. From your point of view you're either perfect, or flawed? Can't rational people have differing opinions? Can't rational people respect that someone else has a different take on a player, and that a solid argument can be made for lots of different players? What Cosell is saying is exactly this. He's acknowledging that an intelligent argument can be made for both picks. If anything, he's professing to the world that "I don't know it all, and neither do you." Further, he's saying that anyone that claims to have all the answers is only fooling themselves. Its a call for some perspective, the thing that's most lacking in discussions about players after they've been drafted.
 
Thanks for sharing this.<br><br>Greg Cosell is far too intelligent and rational to get much play from the average message board crowd. People flock to hyperbole and egotistical boasting. Cosell refuses to pander to the masses.
Or in other words he'll take both sides on the coin and claim he was right later????
The guy has been involved in the business for quite some time. Do you have any evidence of him promoting himself?I'm surprised to see this response. I wouldn't have taken you to be one of those that has a hard time seeing shades of gray in the world. How are Raider fans enjoying LB Aaron Curry? If you remember back a few years he was widely considered the "safest" pick in the NFL draft. That piece of common sense didn't work out so well.
In his mock draft which is suppose to be "based on my film study and my sense of team needs" he does not put Bruce Irvin, A.J. Jenkins, or Brian Quick in the first round. Now after these players were picked earlier than expected he seems to provide support for the picks or at least a wait and see approach. Sounds like trying to take both sides and to me.
that's funny, to me it's a non-partisan take on why the teams took players that were for the most part considered reaches by every other tom, ****, and harry that put together a mock. regardless, do you ever change your opinion of people or do you always stick to first impressions? how about sharing your opinion on these players instead of your dislike for cosell...
 
Thanks for sharing this.<br><br>Greg Cosell is far too intelligent and rational to get much play from the average message board crowd. People flock to hyperbole and egotistical boasting. Cosell refuses to pander to the masses.
Or in other words he'll take both sides on the coin and claim he was right later????
The guy has been involved in the business for quite some time. Do you have any evidence of him promoting himself?I'm surprised to see this response. I wouldn't have taken you to be one of those that has a hard time seeing shades of gray in the world. How are Raider fans enjoying LB Aaron Curry? If you remember back a few years he was widely considered the "safest" pick in the NFL draft. That piece of common sense didn't work out so well.
In his mock draft which is suppose to be "based on my film study and my sense of team needs" he does not put Bruce Irvin, A.J. Jenkins, or Brian Quick in the first round. Now after these players were picked earlier than expected he seems to provide support for the picks or at least a wait and see approach. Sounds like trying to take both sides and to me.
Thanks. This is the sort response I expected. From your point of view you're either perfect, or flawed? Can't rational people have differing opinions? Can't rational people respect that someone else has a different take on a player, and that a solid argument can be made for lots of different players? What Cosell is saying is exactly this. He's acknowledging that an intelligent argument can be made for both picks. If anything, he's professing to the world that "I don't know it all, and neither do you." Further, he's saying that anyone that claims to have all the answers is only fooling themselves. Its a call for some perspective, the thing that's most lacking in discussions about players after they've been drafted.
:goodposting:
 
Thanks for sharing this.<br><br>Greg Cosell is far too intelligent and rational to get much play from the average message board crowd. People flock to hyperbole and egotistical boasting. Cosell refuses to pander to the masses.
Or in other words he'll take both sides on the coin and claim he was right later????
The guy has been involved in the business for quite some time. Do you have any evidence of him promoting himself?I'm surprised to see this response. I wouldn't have taken you to be one of those that has a hard time seeing shades of gray in the world. How are Raider fans enjoying LB Aaron Curry? If you remember back a few years he was widely considered the "safest" pick in the NFL draft. That piece of common sense didn't work out so well.
In his mock draft which is suppose to be "based on my film study and my sense of team needs" he does not put Bruce Irvin, A.J. Jenkins, or Brian Quick in the first round. Now after these players were picked earlier than expected he seems to provide support for the picks or at least a wait and see approach. Sounds like trying to take both sides and to me.
Thanks. This is the sort response I expected. From your point of view you're either perfect, or flawed? Can't rational people have differing opinions? Can't rational people respect that someone else has a different take on a player, and that a solid argument can be made for lots of different players? What Cosell is saying is exactly this. He's acknowledging that an intelligent argument can be made for both picks. If anything, he's professing to the world that "I don't know it all, and neither do you." Further, he's saying that anyone that claims to have all the answers is only fooling themselves. Its a call for some perspective, the thing that's most lacking in discussions about players after they've been drafted.
So... Listen to Cosell because he is "far too intelligent and rational to get much play from the average message board crowd" but disregard what he says because rational people can disagree. Kiper, Mayock, Rob Rang, Scott Wright, etc are wrong a lot. But at least they puts their necks out there and stand by their opinions. Basically what Cosell is selling and it seems you are buying is that no one really knows so let's just wait and see. Then why listen to him in the first place?

 
Thanks for sharing this.<br><br>Greg Cosell is far too intelligent and rational to get much play from the average message board crowd. People flock to hyperbole and egotistical boasting. Cosell refuses to pander to the masses.
Or in other words he'll take both sides on the coin and claim he was right later????
The guy has been involved in the business for quite some time. Do you have any evidence of him promoting himself?I'm surprised to see this response. I wouldn't have taken you to be one of those that has a hard time seeing shades of gray in the world. How are Raider fans enjoying LB Aaron Curry? If you remember back a few years he was widely considered the "safest" pick in the NFL draft. That piece of common sense didn't work out so well.
In his mock draft which is suppose to be "based on my film study and my sense of team needs" he does not put Bruce Irvin, A.J. Jenkins, or Brian Quick in the first round. Now after these players were picked earlier than expected he seems to provide support for the picks or at least a wait and see approach. Sounds like trying to take both sides and to me.
that's funny, to me it's a non-partisan take on why the teams took players that were for the most part considered reaches by every other tom, ****, and harry that put together a mock. regardless, do you ever change your opinion of people or do you always stick to first impressions? how about sharing your opinion on these players instead of your dislike for cosell...
Do you really need Cosell to tell you that Seattle took Irvin earlier than most expected because they think he is a good pass rusher?
 
Thanks for sharing this.<br><br>Greg Cosell is far too intelligent and rational to get much play from the average message board crowd. People flock to hyperbole and egotistical boasting. Cosell refuses to pander to the masses.
Or in other words he'll take both sides on the coin and claim he was right later????
The guy has been involved in the business for quite some time. Do you have any evidence of him promoting himself?I'm surprised to see this response. I wouldn't have taken you to be one of those that has a hard time seeing shades of gray in the world. How are Raider fans enjoying LB Aaron Curry? If you remember back a few years he was widely considered the "safest" pick in the NFL draft. That piece of common sense didn't work out so well.
In his mock draft which is suppose to be "based on my film study and my sense of team needs" he does not put Bruce Irvin, A.J. Jenkins, or Brian Quick in the first round. Now after these players were picked earlier than expected he seems to provide support for the picks or at least a wait and see approach. Sounds like trying to take both sides and to me.
that's funny, to me it's a non-partisan take on why the teams took players that were for the most part considered reaches by every other tom, ****, and harry that put together a mock. regardless, do you ever change your opinion of people or do you always stick to first impressions? how about sharing your opinion on these players instead of your dislike for cosell...
Do you really need Cosell to tell you that Seattle took Irvin earlier than most expected because they think he is a good pass rusher?
no, however i do value his opinion and appreciate any insight i can get on these guys. it's unfortunate that you didn't have the answer to the question yourself, yet understandable given you seem to completely disregard what the article says and instead continue to hint at how much you dislike the author. thanks for that. :thumbup:
 
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Apparently the Cardinals aren't part of the NFC West.
Rational people disagree on that point, we will have to wait and see if they are actually there once the season starts.
after reading the article, which i question you two actually did, i don't think it was so much about the NFC West as it was about the "reaches" in the NFC West... instead of saying the Seahawks, Rams, and 49ers he just said NFC West. but let's keep the cosell hate flowing instead of actually discussing these "reaches".
 
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I'm a Cardinals fan. We barely get any media coverage. An article is titled, "NFC West Draft Pick Post-Mortem".

It covers every team in the West but the Cardinals. Quick and Jenkins are mentioned with no sign of Floyd.

Lazy.

 
I'm a Cardinals fan. We barely get any media coverage. An article is titled, "NFC West Draft Pick Post-Mortem".It covers every team in the West but the Cardinals. Quick and Jenkins are mentioned with no sign of Floyd.Lazy.
It didn't fit what he wanted to write about, which was the common chord that the Seahawks, Rams and 49ers picks were questioned heavily. That wasn't the case with the Cardinals' pick at all. What's the point of shoehorning it in for the sake of thoroughness, if it makes the piece less cohesive? It's not a general draft breakdown. There are a million of those around, and the fact that Michael Floyd wasn't mentioned is a good sign in this case.
 
Floyd was not a pick most people thought was a reach or a guy picked too early. Most people paying attention believe he was roughly worth the pick where AZ tok him. Although it wasn't stated in the article's title, Cosell was writing about guys thought to be picked too early (3 of whom were in the NFC West) - pointing out strengths in pics that seemed like reaches to most observers. I think his point is that nothing is certain about these guys yet and there were reasons the teams made some of the seemingly risky picks they did. He also points out that draft order isn't equal to eventual performance order and so means little about who has been right and wrong so far on which rookies will be good NFL players. He clearly didn't pat himself on the back for the many guys who were drafted where he said they should be - being consistent in holding that we don't know yet whether his evaluation (or anyone's) was wrong or right. I know we want results and the ability to say I was right and you were wrong immediately after the draft. He's just saying you can't determine that for a bunch of guys who haven't yet plated an NFL down. Nothing we didn't already know, but something worth reminding us to keep in mind.

The only case he could have made about Floyd being picked at the wrong point would have been to say that he may have been picked too early because he might bust. Is that the Cardinal story you were hoping for?

 
'werdnoynek said:
'Wadsworth said:
'Eminence said:
Apparently the Cardinals aren't part of the NFC West.
Rational people disagree on that point, we will have to wait and see if they are actually there once the season starts.
after reading the article, which i question you two actually did, i don't think it was so much about the NFC West as it was about the "reaches" in the NFC West... instead of saying the Seahawks, Rams, and 49ers he just said NFC West. but let's keep the cosell hate flowing instead of actually discussing these "reaches".
'Abrantes said:
'Eminence said:
I'm a Cardinals fan. We barely get any media coverage. An article is titled, "NFC West Draft Pick Post-Mortem".

It covers every team in the West but the Cardinals. Quick and Jenkins are mentioned with no sign of Floyd.

Lazy.
It didn't fit what he wanted to write about, which was the common chord that the Seahawks, Rams and 49ers picks were questioned heavily. That wasn't the case with the Cardinals' pick at all. What's the point of shoehorning it in for the sake of thoroughness, if it makes the piece less cohesive? It's not a general draft breakdown. There are a million of those around, and the fact that Michael Floyd wasn't mentioned is a good sign in this case.
The title for the piece was crap. The title is the first thing you see and builds expectation for the content. If his piece was really just about reaches that just so happened to be made by NFC West teams, his title should have been tailored to that topic instead of the "NFC West".But then again, I'm the type of guy that if I open a box of Wheaties, I expect to find Wheaties. There's nothing wrong with Raisin Bran, just don't claim it's Wheaties.

 
'Hooper31 said:
'BassNBrew said:
'Hooper31 said:
Thanks for sharing this.<br><br>Greg Cosell is far too intelligent and rational to get much play from the average message board crowd. People flock to hyperbole and egotistical boasting. Cosell refuses to pander to the masses.
Or in other words he'll take both sides on the coin and claim he was right later????
The guy has been involved in the business for quite some time. Do you have any evidence of him promoting himself?I'm surprised to see this response. I wouldn't have taken you to be one of those that has a hard time seeing shades of gray in the world. How are Raider fans enjoying LB Aaron Curry? If you remember back a few years he was widely considered the "safest" pick in the NFL draft. That piece of common sense didn't work out so well.
I just like reading articles where people take a stand. I can't stand the "we can't grade a draft for 3 years" crowd. I rarely see anyone come back and grade drafts down the road. I understand that draft opinions this early will be flawed, but still enjoy the conversation and opinions while the topic is current.
 
'Hooper31 said:
'BassNBrew said:
'Hooper31 said:
Thanks for sharing this.<br><br>Greg Cosell is far too intelligent and rational to get much play from the average message board crowd. People flock to hyperbole and egotistical boasting. Cosell refuses to pander to the masses.
Or in other words he'll take both sides on the coin and claim he was right later????
The guy has been involved in the business for quite some time. Do you have any evidence of him promoting himself?I'm surprised to see this response. I wouldn't have taken you to be one of those that has a hard time seeing shades of gray in the world. How are Raider fans enjoying LB Aaron Curry? If you remember back a few years he was widely considered the "safest" pick in the NFL draft. That piece of common sense didn't work out so well.
I just like reading articles where people take a stand. I can't stand the "we can't grade a draft for 3 years" crowd. I rarely see anyone come back and grade drafts down the road. I understand that draft opinions this early will be flawed, but still enjoy the conversation and opinions while the topic is current.
I agree, but then again we are likely members of the average message board crowd and do not understand his intelligent and rational writing.
 
I like Cosell and try to read all his work. This article seems pointed at those who are judging the draft before a single rookie has played his first snap. I think that public comments below national writers articles usually include a lot of hostile and ignorant stuff. It takes thick skin to publish on the internet with your name attached to it.

 

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