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Could it happen again? (1 Viewer)

Gordon Keith

Footballguy
I happen to own Colston in a keeper league so I hope he doesn't pull a "Michael Clayton"

I can't believe how close their rookie numbers are...coincidence?

Clayton's rookie numbers:

80 recs 1193 yards 14.9 avg 7 tds

Colstons with 1 game left

70 recs 1038 yards 14.8 avg 8 tds

I was one of those unlucky enough to get burned by Clayton his second year so I'm just wondering.

 
I happen to own Colston in a keeper league so I hope he doesn't pull a "Michael Clayton" I can't believe how close their rookie numbers are...coincidence?Clayton's rookie numbers:80 recs 1193 yards 14.9 avg 7 tdsColstons with 1 game left70 recs 1038 yards 14.8 avg 8 tdsI was one of those unlucky enough to get burned by Clayton his second year so I'm just wondering.
I believe Clayton had knee surgery in the offseason following his rookie year. I don't believe he was anywhere near 100% for his 2nd season. I believe that was a greater factor than it just being a 2nd year slump.
 
I happen to own Colston in a keeper league so I hope he doesn't pull a "Michael Clayton" I can't believe how close their rookie numbers are...coincidence?Clayton's rookie numbers:80 recs 1193 yards 14.9 avg 7 tdsColstons with 1 game left70 recs 1038 yards 14.8 avg 8 tdsI was one of those unlucky enough to get burned by Clayton his second year so I'm just wondering.
I believe Clayton had knee surgery in the offseason following his rookie year. I don't believe he was anywhere near 100% for his 2nd season. I believe that was a greater factor than it just being a 2nd year slump.
hmmmm...and he was healthy this year???? not any better anyway
 
The fact that Colston's rookie numbers are similar to Clayton's doesn't mean there are other similarities. There aren't. Their backgrounds, talents and offensive scheme are all quite different so I don't think you could draw any conclusions about Colston's prospects for 07 from Clayton's previous experiences.

 
A few differences, imo, are:

Colston has Brees throwing to him (Big diff between Brees and Griese/Simms)

Clayton did most of his damage with Griese at QB, not Simms. Simms looked to Galloway a ton, not Clayton. QB transition from Griese to Simms hurt Clayton's targets, thus, his production. I predicted a 2006 Clayton disappointment last offseason for this very reason. Simms locks onto Galloway and Galloway gets the targets.

Horn will be 35 before next season while Galloway was 33 after Clayton's rookie year. I say this because I think Horn's targets will subside een when healthy

 
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The fact that Colston's rookie numbers are similar to Clayton's doesn't mean there are other similarities. There aren't. Their backgrounds, talents and offensive scheme are all quite different so I don't think you could draw any conclusions about Colston's prospects for 07 from Clayton's previous experiences.
I guess I wasn't trying to draw any conclusions from the similarities of their stats. Having Colston on my keeper roster reminds me so much of keeping Clayton that year. Even more so when I looked at the stats. I just knew I had a 1st tier WR on the cheap...and that just messed up the rest of my draft that year.
 
A few differences, imo, are:

Colston has Brees throwing to him (Big diff between Brees and Griese/Simms)

Clayton did most of his damage with Griese at QB, not Simms. Simms looked to Galloway a ton, not Clayton. QB transition from Griese to Simms hurt Clayton's targets, thus, his production. I predicted a 2006 Clayton disappointment last offseason for this very reason. Simms locks onto Galloway and Galloway gets the targets.

Horn will be 35 before next season while Galloway was 33 after Clayton's rookie year. I say this because I think Horn's targets will subside een when healthy
Here is the reasoning, with numbers to match from last June:Disclaimer: I know injury claimed some of the blame for Clayton's lower numbers in 2005 compared to his rookie year in 2004.

But, I would like to offer another, alternative reason:

Drop in targets. Period.

Here are the numbers:

In 2004, Clayton had 116 of the 253 Tampa WR targets. Of those targets, he caught 80 passes for 1193 yds and 7 TDs. This was a very good rookie year. Also, Galloway and Jurevicius each missed six of the first 7 games. During this time, Clayton had 55 targets in his first 7 games. The surprising part is that the targets did not decrease when Galloway and Jurevicius came back. Clayton still averaged almost two more targets a game than did Galloway after Galloway came back from the injury.

In 2005, Clayton had 55 targets in 13 games. This is out of a total of WR targets of 270. Of those 55 targets, 32 netting 372 yds and 0 TDs. Oddly enough, Jurevicius departed and Galloway received the bulk of the targets. Galloway had 152 of the 270 total WR targets. In addition, Ike Hillard had 54 targets.

Now, let's look at the difference in targets. The targets for Clayton were almost cut in half on a per game basis. This has to play major part in the reduction in fantasy production. Something changes between 2004 and 2005 to flip-flop the targets.

Some possibilities:

a. Injury: Galloway was still nicked up when he first came back in 2004 and his targets rose as he became healthier. In addition, Clayton's injuries could have made him ineffective and less able to get open in 2005 than in 2004.

b. The addition of Caddy Williams in 2005 altered the routes and play-calling, and therefore the targets. In 2004, Pittman was leading rusher with 219 carries for 926 yds. In 2005, Caddy was the leading rusher 290 carries for 1178 yds.

c. Change of QB. In 2004, Griese played in 11 games and averaged 30 attempts a game. In 2005, Simms was the leading QB, playing in 11 games and and attemped 313 passes. Maybe Griese, as a veteran, gained confidence in the rookie (Clayton) and looked for him even after Galloway and Jurevicius came back. Simms, a young QB, looked for the stable, veteran WR (Galloway) often as a safety net, especially with a rookie RB.

d. Record of Tampa Bay. In 2004, the Bucs were 5-11 and 11-5 in 2005. This, in addition to the drafting of Caddy, could change the game plan.

In summary, I think some of the blame for the decrease in Clayton's fantasy production was due to injury. But, there are many other factors at work, too. In trying to define fantasy production for 2006, and beyond, I think we cannot assume that Clayton will automatically resume the position as focal point in the passing game, and thereby getting the largest chunk of the targets.

The targets will tell us in 2006 which year, 2004 or 2005, was the fluke.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...6784&st=150 post 165

ETA: Clayton had 65 targets in 12 weeks in 2006 while Galloway has had 131 targets in 15 games. I expect Colston to lead the Saints in targets in the future, just like he has this year.

 
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I love Colston, helped my team win a championship, but in all likliehood, he will be going faaaar too early in 07 drafts for him to be on any of my teams. I honestly can't recall a rookie WR who had a great season and then had his 2nd yr production merit his lofty draft status. His injury and poor production the last 1/3 of the season might cause him to fall enough for him to be draftable though, we'll see.

 
Mini-hijack:

When does Clayton his RFA or FA? Will he be a RFA this year? I think part of his poor production is being stuck in TB. As a Pats fan, would LOVE to see him in a Pats uni. I think there are also other teams he could go to and put up decent numbers (though I'm thinking more of NFL than FF).

 
I happen to own Colston in a keeper league so I hope he doesn't pull a "Michael Clayton" I can't believe how close their rookie numbers are...coincidence?Clayton's rookie numbers:80 recs 1193 yards 14.9 avg 7 tdsColstons with 1 game left70 recs 1038 yards 14.8 avg 8 tdsI was one of those unlucky enough to get burned by Clayton his second year so I'm just wondering.
I believe Clayton had knee surgery in the offseason following his rookie year. I don't believe he was anywhere near 100% for his 2nd season. I believe that was a greater factor than it just being a 2nd year slump.
hmmmm...and he was healthy this year???? not any better anyway
Your question centered around the decline in his 2nd year. That decline was impacted by his off season surgery. If you're trying to draw comparision in the 2 situations unless Colston is going to have major surgery in the off season there's little reason to draw comparision between the 2. This past year I believe its safe to say that Tampa's problems at QB played a big factor.
 
Clayton had a lot of personal problems mainly stemming from him not being mature and having lots of money.

Colston has shown to be more responsible and seems like a player with a much better work ethic.

There numbers might be similar but the correlation between the two players is just happenstance and not indicative to their futures.

 
colston will go Far, far too early for me next year. I was burned by clayton last year, and wont be reaching for a 2nd year wide out again.

 
I happen to own Colston in a keeper league so I hope he doesn't pull a "Michael Clayton" I can't believe how close their rookie numbers are...coincidence?Clayton's rookie numbers:80 recs 1193 yards 14.9 avg 7 tdsColstons with 1 game left70 recs 1038 yards 14.8 avg 8 tdsI was one of those unlucky enough to get burned by Clayton his second year so I'm just wondering.
You could also throw Auquan Boldin in to this conversation since he put up ROY numbers and succumbed to injuries in his second year. Not that it really helps - unless you can predict injuries.
 
It's been in the back of my mind but chances are that he'll be gone by the time I'm willing to grab him anyway.

 
There has to be some reason that Colston lasted until the last round of the draft. If you have him in a keeper or dynasty it'd be wise to hold until you see production slipping. In redraft it'd probably be wise to let someone else gamble.

 
Just because the numbers are close doesn't mean the situations are in the same ballpark.

Clayton was forcefed the ball all year because his WRs were injured. He went into the first game as WR4, except by Week 2, 5 Bucs WRs were out with injury, 3 of them on IR.

Colston dominated for about half a season and was the best WR in the league until he got hurt. It wasn't because he was being forcefed the ball, just that he was good.

Clayton is a very good receiver, but the system that Gruden runs is not conducive to solid week in and week out numbers, and people don't seem to understand that his rookie year was a fluke. He's certainly capable of putting up those numbers every year, but he'll struggle to break 1000 for the rest of his career in TB as long as Gruden is the coach.

Colston looks like the proverbial diamond in the rough. He's tall, fast, great hands, everything you look for. And he's playing with the league's top offense with the league's passing leader.

I just can't see the comparisons here. It was certainly worth bringing up for debate, but I don't see how any legitimate claims can be sustained. The two are very different WRs in different situations.

edit: Also forgot to mention, Clayton did have offseason knee surgery that hampered him all season, and he also threw out his shoulder in a block in week 3 of the season, which made him a decoy for the rest of the season until he was put on IR.

 
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I love Colston, helped my team win a championship, but in all likliehood, he will be going faaaar too early in 07 drafts for him to be on any of my teams. I honestly can't recall a rookie WR who had a great season and then had his 2nd yr production merit his lofty draft status. His injury and poor production the last 1/3 of the season might cause him to fall enough for him to be draftable though, we'll see.
I agree with this statement and would like to add the R. Bush factor as well. While Bush will still be there for awhile, I'm not so sure teams will give him all the attention they have this year and some of that coverage will likely be thrown towards Colston.
 

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