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count down to Brady breaking Manning's TD record (1 Viewer)
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Tau837
Footballguy
I don't think Brady is the greatest player ever. He may well put up the greatest single season performance ever for a QB, but there is still a ways to go. I think their remaining schedule, which includes PHI, BAL, PIT, NYG, is more difficult than their schedule to date... plus they will likely have some games in poor weather down the stretch. And they will also face the issue of whether or not to sit the players for some amount of the last few games. All of these things make it likely that Brady's pace will tail off, though I suspect he will break the record, barring injury, because it seems to be important to the Pats.I also think it is interesting to look back at Manning's pace in 2004, which I suspect was closer to Brady's current pace than most people remember. Brady is on pace for 4894 passing yards and 61 passing TDs over 16 games. After 10 games in 2004, Manning was on pace for 4736 passing yards and 56 passing TDs.10 games played38 TDs- on pace for 60 TDs3059 passing yardsonly 4 INTs
74% comp. %134 QB ratingwe are watching the GREATEST single season performance EVER and the greatest player ever
Dt's Mules
Footballguy
shssshhh facts like how manning and the colts took their foot off the pedal while the pats and brady won't have no place in this thread.I don't think Brady is the greatest player ever. He may well put up the greatest single season performance ever for a QB, but there is still a ways to go. I think their remaining schedule, which includes PHI, BAL, PIT, NYG, is more difficult than their schedule to date... plus they will likely have some games in poor weather down the stretch. And they will also face the issue of whether or not to sit the players for some amount of the last few games. All of these things make it likely that Brady's pace will tail off, though I suspect he will break the record, barring injury, because it seems to be important to the Pats.I also think it is interesting to look back at Manning's pace in 2004, which I suspect was closer to Brady's current pace than most people remember. Brady is on pace for 4894 passing yards and 61 passing TDs over 16 games. After 10 games in 2004, Manning was on pace for 4736 passing yards and 56 passing TDs.10 games played38 TDs- on pace for 60 TDs3059 passing yardsonly 4 INTs
74% comp. %134 QB ratingwe are watching the GREATEST single season performance EVER and the greatest player ever
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Did they? Won't they?I wasn't aware of either of these "facts".shssshhh facts like how manning and the colts took their foot off the pedal while the pats and brady won't have no place in this thread.I don't think Brady is the greatest player ever. He may well put up the greatest single season performance ever for a QB, but there is still a ways to go. I think their remaining schedule, which includes PHI, BAL, PIT, NYG, is more difficult than their schedule to date... plus they will likely have some games in poor weather down the stretch. And they will also face the issue of whether or not to sit the players for some amount of the last few games. All of these things make it likely that Brady's pace will tail off, though I suspect he will break the record, barring injury, because it seems to be important to the Pats.I also think it is interesting to look back at Manning's pace in 2004, which I suspect was closer to Brady's current pace than most people remember. Brady is on pace for 4894 passing yards and 61 passing TDs over 16 games. After 10 games in 2004, Manning was on pace for 4736 passing yards and 56 passing TDs.10 games played
38 TDs- on pace for 60 TDs
3059 passing yards
only 4 INTs
74% comp. %
134 QB rating
we are watching the GREATEST single season performance EVER and the greatest player ever
Dt's Mules
Footballguy
don't feel bad, most aren't...it doesn't really reflect that poorly on you.Did they? Won't they?I wasn't aware of either of these "facts".shssshhh facts like how manning and the colts took their foot off the pedal while the pats and brady won't have no place in this thread.I don't think Brady is the greatest player ever. He may well put up the greatest single season performance ever for a QB, but there is still a ways to go. I think their remaining schedule, which includes PHI, BAL, PIT, NYG, is more difficult than their schedule to date... plus they will likely have some games in poor weather down the stretch. And they will also face the issue of whether or not to sit the players for some amount of the last few games. All of these things make it likely that Brady's pace will tail off, though I suspect he will break the record, barring injury, because it seems to be important to the Pats.I also think it is interesting to look back at Manning's pace in 2004, which I suspect was closer to Brady's current pace than most people remember. Brady is on pace for 4894 passing yards and 61 passing TDs over 16 games. After 10 games in 2004, Manning was on pace for 4736 passing yards and 56 passing TDs.10 games played
38 TDs- on pace for 60 TDs
3059 passing yards
only 4 INTs
74% comp. %
134 QB rating
we are watching the GREATEST single season performance EVER and the greatest player ever
Yes the Colts rested late. But, they didn't take their foot off the pedal at this point. Maybe, just maybe, if they didn't get so full of themselves they would have at least made the SB that year? You don't get better playing less than your best. I firmly believe the Colts felt they were to be annointed that year, and it bit them in the ####. I also firmly believe such a fate will not befall the Pats. They may lost, but it wont be because they get full of themselves.don't feel bad, most aren't...it doesn't really reflect that poorly on you.Did they? Won't they?I wasn't aware of either of these "facts".shssshhh facts like how manning and the colts took their foot off the pedal while the pats and brady won't have no place in this thread.I don't think Brady is the greatest player ever. He may well put up the greatest single season performance ever for a QB, but there is still a ways to go. I think their remaining schedule, which includes PHI, BAL, PIT, NYG, is more difficult than their schedule to date... plus they will likely have some games in poor weather down the stretch. And they will also face the issue of whether or not to sit the players for some amount of the last few games. All of these things make it likely that Brady's pace will tail off, though I suspect he will break the record, barring injury, because it seems to be important to the Pats.I also think it is interesting to look back at Manning's pace in 2004, which I suspect was closer to Brady's current pace than most people remember. Brady is on pace for 4894 passing yards and 61 passing TDs over 16 games. After 10 games in 2004, Manning was on pace for 4736 passing yards and 56 passing TDs.10 games played
38 TDs- on pace for 60 TDs
3059 passing yards
only 4 INTs
74% comp. %
134 QB rating
we are watching the GREATEST single season performance EVER and the greatest player ever
Monkeydo
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
Absolutely. Tony Dungy is a passive coach and would rather rest his players once home field is wrapped up. Belichick is more aggressive and would rather keep his team sharp by playing through the end of the season. They already have a bye week wrapped up so he knows they have that week of rest. No reason to rest them more than that. The Patriots starters will play through the end of the season whether they are going for the undefeated season or not.shssshhh facts like how manning and the colts took their foot off the pedal while the pats and brady won't have no place in this thread.I don't think Brady is the greatest player ever. He may well put up the greatest single season performance ever for a QB, but there is still a ways to go. I think their remaining schedule, which includes PHI, BAL, PIT, NYG, is more difficult than their schedule to date... plus they will likely have some games in poor weather down the stretch. And they will also face the issue of whether or not to sit the players for some amount of the last few games. All of these things make it likely that Brady's pace will tail off, though I suspect he will break the record, barring injury, because it seems to be important to the Pats.I also think it is interesting to look back at Manning's pace in 2004, which I suspect was closer to Brady's current pace than most people remember. Brady is on pace for 4894 passing yards and 61 passing TDs over 16 games. After 10 games in 2004, Manning was on pace for 4736 passing yards and 56 passing TDs.10 games played38 TDs- on pace for 60 TDs
Dt's Mules
Footballguy
don't get me wrong, i'm not advocating either strategy....i just find it humorous how quickly the collective forgets what was going on a few years ago.Yes the Colts rested late. But, they didn't take their foot off the pedal at this point. Maybe, just maybe, if they didn't get so full of themselves they would have at least made the SB that year? You don't get better playing less than your best. I firmly believe the Colts felt they were to be annointed that year, and it bit them in the ####. I also firmly believe such a fate will not befall the Pats. They may lost, but it wont be because they get full of themselves.don't feel bad, most aren't...it doesn't really reflect that poorly on you.Did they? Won't they?I wasn't aware of either of these "facts".shssshhh facts like how manning and the colts took their foot off the pedal while the pats and brady won't have no place in this thread.I don't think Brady is the greatest player ever. He may well put up the greatest single season performance ever for a QB, but there is still a ways to go. I think their remaining schedule, which includes PHI, BAL, PIT, NYG, is more difficult than their schedule to date... plus they will likely have some games in poor weather down the stretch. And they will also face the issue of whether or not to sit the players for some amount of the last few games. All of these things make it likely that Brady's pace will tail off, though I suspect he will break the record, barring injury, because it seems to be important to the Pats.I also think it is interesting to look back at Manning's pace in 2004, which I suspect was closer to Brady's current pace than most people remember. Brady is on pace for 4894 passing yards and 61 passing TDs over 16 games. After 10 games in 2004, Manning was on pace for 4736 passing yards and 56 passing TDs.10 games played
38 TDs- on pace for 60 TDs
3059 passing yards
only 4 INTs
74% comp. %
134 QB rating
we are watching the GREATEST single season performance EVER and the greatest player ever
rabidfireweasel
Footballguy
I think you are confusing years a bit. In 2004, Manning only rested in week 17. The colts wanted the week 16 game against the Chargers, played to win, and won 34-31. He threw it 44 times in week 16. If he stays healthy, Brady is not going to need to be slinging it in week 17 to catch Manning.don't get me wrong, i'm not advocating either strategy....i just find it humorous how quickly the collective forgets what was going on a few years ago.Yes the Colts rested late. But, they didn't take their foot off the pedal at this point. Maybe, just maybe, if they didn't get so full of themselves they would have at least made the SB that year? You don't get better playing less than your best. I firmly believe the Colts felt they were to be annointed that year, and it bit them in the ####. I also firmly believe such a fate will not befall the Pats. They may lost, but it wont be because they get full of themselves.don't feel bad, most aren't...it doesn't really reflect that poorly on you.Did they? Won't they?I wasn't aware of either of these "facts".shssshhh facts like how manning and the colts took their foot off the pedal while the pats and brady won't have no place in this thread.I don't think Brady is the greatest player ever. He may well put up the greatest single season performance ever for a QB, but there is still a ways to go. I think their remaining schedule, which includes PHI, BAL, PIT, NYG, is more difficult than their schedule to date... plus they will likely have some games in poor weather down the stretch. And they will also face the issue of whether or not to sit the players for some amount of the last few games. All of these things make it likely that Brady's pace will tail off, though I suspect he will break the record, barring injury, because it seems to be important to the Pats.I also think it is interesting to look back at Manning's pace in 2004, which I suspect was closer to Brady's current pace than most people remember. Brady is on pace for 4894 passing yards and 61 passing TDs over 16 games. After 10 games in 2004, Manning was on pace for 4736 passing yards and 56 passing TDs.10 games played
38 TDs- on pace for 60 TDs
3059 passing yards
only 4 INTs
74% comp. %
134 QB rating
we are watching the GREATEST single season performance EVER and the greatest player ever
nibbomydaets
Footballguy
Manning had the chance to break that record and send it close to 60 but when he got close they slowed things down. They were taking it so easy we all thought he was going to just tie the record to spare Marino's feelings.The Pats are a fine team but you would have to tie me up in a chair and brainwash me to convince me they could even compete with the 70's Steelers, 88-91 Niners, the 91 Redskins, any of the 92-95 Cowboys, or just about any SB team prior to the salary cap and Free agency.I think you are confusing years a bit. In 2004, Manning only rested in week 17. The colts wanted the week 16 game against the Chargers, played to win, and won 34-31. He threw it 44 times in week 16. If he stays healthy, Brady is not going to need to be slinging it in week 17 to catch Manning.don't get me wrong, i'm not advocating either strategy....i just find it humorous how quickly the collective forgets what was going on a few years ago.Yes the Colts rested late. But, they didn't take their foot off the pedal at this point. Maybe, just maybe, if they didn't get so full of themselves they would have at least made the SB that year? You don't get better playing less than your best. I firmly believe the Colts felt they were to be annointed that year, and it bit them in the ####. I also firmly believe such a fate will not befall the Pats. They may lost, but it wont be because they get full of themselves.don't feel bad, most aren't...it doesn't really reflect that poorly on you.Did they? Won't they?I wasn't aware of either of these "facts".shssshhh facts like how manning and the colts took their foot off the pedal while the pats and brady won't have no place in this thread.I don't think Brady is the greatest player ever. He may well put up the greatest single season performance ever for a QB, but there is still a ways to go. I think their remaining schedule, which includes PHI, BAL, PIT, NYG, is more difficult than their schedule to date... plus they will likely have some games in poor weather down the stretch. And they will also face the issue of whether or not to sit the players for some amount of the last few games. All of these things make it likely that Brady's pace will tail off, though I suspect he will break the record, barring injury, because it seems to be important to the Pats.I also think it is interesting to look back at Manning's pace in 2004, which I suspect was closer to Brady's current pace than most people remember. Brady is on pace for 4894 passing yards and 61 passing TDs over 16 games. After 10 games in 2004, Manning was on pace for 4736 passing yards and 56 passing TDs.10 games played
38 TDs- on pace for 60 TDs
3059 passing yards
only 4 INTs
74% comp. %
134 QB rating
we are watching the GREATEST single season performance EVER and the greatest player ever
Last edited by a moderator:
Sabertooth
Footballguy
FWIW I've never seen a team more full of themselves than this year's Patriots. Maybe the 85 Bears, but even they weren't this arrogant.Yes the Colts rested late. But, they didn't take their foot off the pedal at this point. Maybe, just maybe, if they didn't get so full of themselves they would have at least made the SB that year? You don't get better playing less than your best. I firmly believe the Colts felt they were to be annointed that year, and it bit them in the ####. I also firmly believe such a fate will not befall the Pats. They may lost, but it wont be because they get full of themselves.don't feel bad, most aren't...it doesn't really reflect that poorly on you.Did they? Won't they?I wasn't aware of either of these "facts".shssshhh facts like how manning and the colts took their foot off the pedal while the pats and brady won't have no place in this thread.I don't think Brady is the greatest player ever. He may well put up the greatest single season performance ever for a QB, but there is still a ways to go. I think their remaining schedule, which includes PHI, BAL, PIT, NYG, is more difficult than their schedule to date... plus they will likely have some games in poor weather down the stretch. And they will also face the issue of whether or not to sit the players for some amount of the last few games. All of these things make it likely that Brady's pace will tail off, though I suspect he will break the record, barring injury, because it seems to be important to the Pats.I also think it is interesting to look back at Manning's pace in 2004, which I suspect was closer to Brady's current pace than most people remember. Brady is on pace for 4894 passing yards and 61 passing TDs over 16 games. After 10 games in 2004, Manning was on pace for 4736 passing yards and 56 passing TDs.10 games played
38 TDs- on pace for 60 TDs
3059 passing yards
only 4 INTs
74% comp. %
134 QB rating
we are watching the GREATEST single season performance EVER and the greatest player ever
rabidfireweasel
Footballguy
You are not dealing with reality. In weeks 13-16, Manning did not have less than 33 attempts in any game. He went for 425, 298, 249 and 383 yards in those games. He had 8 TD passes and dropped 51 on Tennessee in that time frame. He did not take it easy until he had the record at the end of week 16.
Pygmy Marmoset
Footballguy
What are you talking about? Week 17?shssshhh facts like how manning and the colts took their foot off the pedal while the pats and brady won't have no place in this thread.I don't think Brady is the greatest player ever. He may well put up the greatest single season performance ever for a QB, but there is still a ways to go. I think their remaining schedule, which includes PHI, BAL, PIT, NYG, is more difficult than their schedule to date... plus they will likely have some games in poor weather down the stretch. And they will also face the issue of whether or not to sit the players for some amount of the last few games. All of these things make it likely that Brady's pace will tail off, though I suspect he will break the record, barring injury, because it seems to be important to the Pats.I also think it is interesting to look back at Manning's pace in 2004, which I suspect was closer to Brady's current pace than most people remember. Brady is on pace for 4894 passing yards and 61 passing TDs over 16 games. After 10 games in 2004, Manning was on pace for 4736 passing yards and 56 passing TDs.10 games played38 TDs- on pace for 60 TDs3059 passing yardsonly 4 INTs
Last edited by a moderator:
Best single-season performance ever? I think it's going to be pretty hard to top Don Hutson's 74/1211/17 (IN ELEVEN GAMES!) in 1942. Pro-rate that to 16 games, and you're looking at 108 catches for 1761 yards and 25 TDs. That would be the third-most receiving yards in a single season in NFL history, as well as the most TDs in a single season in NFL history. And this was NINETEEN FORTY TWO!
People need to be a little bit less cavalier when throwing around words like "ever" or "in history". NFL history stretches back a lot longer than just the past 20 years.
People need to be a little bit less cavalier when throwing around words like "ever" or "in history". NFL history stretches back a lot longer than just the past 20 years.
nibbomydaets
Footballguy
While I do agree with most of your points, I think you're also being a little too cavalier in your assessment. Nobody respects Don Hudson much more then I do, but he wasn't exactly playing against defenses designed to stop the forward pass. But your point is well taken. The popular thing today is to anoint every great feat as "THE GREATEST OF ALL-TIME!!!!!!" and it's pretty comical.SSOG said:
twitch
Footballguy
With all due respect to Hutson. That was during the war, he wasnt competing against black athletes, and there's no need to prorate those #s because this isnt a hypothetical situation. The man played 11 games and had a brilliant season. It was the greatest 11 game season ever by a WR in football history. And nothing at all to be ever forgotten. But it in no way compares to what Tom Brady is doing today. Youre not the only football historian in the house.SSOG said:
AussieOyOyOy
Footballguy
Look, I'm an old guy who really loves football, and I have no allegiance to any NFL team. I'm an Oklahoma Sooners fan. I don't root for any team in any game unless it positively impacts OU. And I get irritated to no ends by the newest and latest being called the best of all-time.
That said, Brady-to-Moss is the best I've ever seen. Better than Montana/Young-to-Rice. Those two guys are simply out of this world. As a fan of the sport, I really do enjoy watching those guys play together.
That said, Brady-to-Moss is the best I've ever seen. Better than Montana/Young-to-Rice. Those two guys are simply out of this world. As a fan of the sport, I really do enjoy watching those guys play together.
Defenders were allowed to outright tackle receivers before the ball was thrown back then. Defenses were far more prepared to stop the forward pass back then, because passers weren't yet the laser-accurate decision-makers that they are today, and because there were no rules in place to assist the liberalization of the passing attack. Besides, part of the reason why they were unprepared for the sophisticated routes that Don Hutson was running is because Don Hutson pretty much invented the routes. Hard to penalize someone for that.Hutson's TD mark stood until 1984, and still ranks as the 4th most in the history of the NFL- and this was in ELEVEN GAMES. No one in NFL history- not even the legendary Jim Brown- has stood as far above his peers and as far ahead of his time as Hutson.
I agree that there's no need to pro-rate the numbers- that TD total is the 4th highest in history without any help whatsoever. I was just showing the pro-rated numbers to provide some context.As for Hutson not competing against black athletes... neither did Babe Ruth. That particular season might have been during the war, but it's not like Hutson wasn't dominating the league before the war. As for what Brady is doing today... what he's doing is breaking a 3-year old record which has continuously come under fire since the liberalization of the passing rules, and doing it in a season where Tony Romo is on pace for the 4th-most passing TDs in NFL history. And yes, that makes a difference. Just as it's hard to call Tomlinson's TD record the most impressive feat ever because it's a record that's fallen 4 times in the past 7 years, so too does the passing TD explosion diminish Brady's accomplishment compared to the other amazing accomplishments in league history.
Dt's Mules
Footballguy
no, i'm talking about week 17 and week 5 when they had the game in hand and didn't throw in the 2nd half, or week 10,11,12 when they didn't throw in the 4th quarteri owned peyton back then and i was acutely aware of their philosophy and i own brady now and i am aware of the current pats...2004 colts would step off the throat, while 2007 pats won't...again, not saying i have a problem with it...it just is what it isPygmy Marmoset said:What are you talking about? Week 17?shssshhh facts like how manning and the colts took their foot off the pedal while the pats and brady won't have no place in this thread.I don't think Brady is the greatest player ever. He may well put up the greatest single season performance ever for a QB, but there is still a ways to go. I think their remaining schedule, which includes PHI, BAL, PIT, NYG, is more difficult than their schedule to date... plus they will likely have some games in poor weather down the stretch. And they will also face the issue of whether or not to sit the players for some amount of the last few games. All of these things make it likely that Brady's pace will tail off, though I suspect he will break the record, barring injury, because it seems to be important to the Pats.I also think it is interesting to look back at Manning's pace in 2004, which I suspect was closer to Brady's current pace than most people remember. Brady is on pace for 4894 passing yards and 61 passing TDs over 16 games. After 10 games in 2004, Manning was on pace for 4736 passing yards and 56 passing TDs.10 games played38 TDs- on pace for 60 TDs3059 passing yardsonly 4 INTs
Dt's Mules
Footballguy
it's not so much the end of the season as it is when the end of each game when the game is no longer in doubtrabidfireweasel said:
Reservoir Dog
Footballguy
Last Sunday, John Madden said that Tom Brady is playing the QB position better than he's ever seen it played.
No matter your opinion of John Madden as an analyst, he's watched alot of football (I respect his opinion).
Tom Brady's phenomenal 2007 has caused me to change my opinion of him.
Before this season, I posted an all-time QB ranking on this site (I had Tom Brady 9th). Right now, I'd have to put him at least 3rd.
My current all-time QB rankings (for entertainment purposes only).....
1. John Elway -"The Natural". Rocket-arm, extremely mobile in the pocket, & a field general in the huddle. Most scouts and GM's will tell you that Elway is the QB they'd pick to build a franchise around.
2. Joe Montana -Was blessed to have WCO architect Bill Walsh, and an abundance of talent around him. But, he was definitely Mr. Clutch.
3. Tom Brady -Brady is the modern day Johnny U. Brady always makes it look so easy, and now he's finally got some legitmate WR's. He's well on his way to #1.
4. Brett Favre -Toughest to ever play the position. Terrific ironman, but had a penchant for throwing untimely interceptions.
5. Peyton Manning -In a couple of years, he may own every record that exists for a QB....and he finally got his championship.
6. Dan Marino -Threw the most beautiful ball I ever seen, but never won a Super Bowl. Dan's immobility sometimes cost him against great D's.
7. Johnny Unitas -One of the toughest to ever play the position, and a genius on the field. He could beat you in many ways.
8. Steve Young -He was an unstoppable force from 1991-97, incredible athlete (ran a 4.4). Would probably be #2 had he played longer.
9. Fran Tarkenton -The Purple People Eater....always underrated, could pass and run with the best of them.
10. Jim Kelly -I hated him, but he was a great QB. He called all the plays, so you know Marv Levy trusted him. However, never won a Super Bowl.
Hon. mentions -Sonny Jurgenson, Joe Namath, Otto Graham, Warren Moon, Sammy Baugh, Dan Fouts, Terry Bradshaw, Bobby Layne, Bart Starr, Roger Staubach, Len Dawson, Troy Aikman, Donovan McNabb, Sid Luckman, Kurt Warner, George Blanda, Phil Simms, Randall Cunningham, Y.A. Tittle, Duante Culpepper, Norm Van Brocklin
No matter your opinion of John Madden as an analyst, he's watched alot of football (I respect his opinion).
Tom Brady's phenomenal 2007 has caused me to change my opinion of him.
Before this season, I posted an all-time QB ranking on this site (I had Tom Brady 9th). Right now, I'd have to put him at least 3rd.
My current all-time QB rankings (for entertainment purposes only).....
1. John Elway -"The Natural". Rocket-arm, extremely mobile in the pocket, & a field general in the huddle. Most scouts and GM's will tell you that Elway is the QB they'd pick to build a franchise around.
2. Joe Montana -Was blessed to have WCO architect Bill Walsh, and an abundance of talent around him. But, he was definitely Mr. Clutch.
3. Tom Brady -Brady is the modern day Johnny U. Brady always makes it look so easy, and now he's finally got some legitmate WR's. He's well on his way to #1.
4. Brett Favre -Toughest to ever play the position. Terrific ironman, but had a penchant for throwing untimely interceptions.
5. Peyton Manning -In a couple of years, he may own every record that exists for a QB....and he finally got his championship.
6. Dan Marino -Threw the most beautiful ball I ever seen, but never won a Super Bowl. Dan's immobility sometimes cost him against great D's.
7. Johnny Unitas -One of the toughest to ever play the position, and a genius on the field. He could beat you in many ways.
8. Steve Young -He was an unstoppable force from 1991-97, incredible athlete (ran a 4.4). Would probably be #2 had he played longer.
9. Fran Tarkenton -The Purple People Eater....always underrated, could pass and run with the best of them.
10. Jim Kelly -I hated him, but he was a great QB. He called all the plays, so you know Marv Levy trusted him. However, never won a Super Bowl.
Hon. mentions -Sonny Jurgenson, Joe Namath, Otto Graham, Warren Moon, Sammy Baugh, Dan Fouts, Terry Bradshaw, Bobby Layne, Bart Starr, Roger Staubach, Len Dawson, Troy Aikman, Donovan McNabb, Sid Luckman, Kurt Warner, George Blanda, Phil Simms, Randall Cunningham, Y.A. Tittle, Duante Culpepper, Norm Van Brocklin
No what? Are you saying that it's silly to compare Don Hutson to Babe Ruth?
twitch
Footballguy
Im saying it makes decent sense to compare those 2 to one another. Im also saying it makes little sense to compare either of them to Tom Brady. Thru no fault of theirs, certainly. But such a comparison would be like saying Bobby Jones is the greatest golfer of all time. Greater than Tiger Woods. He's the golfing equivalent of Babe Ruth. And while he was certainly a great golfer. He conceded that even Jack Nicklaus played a game with which he was 'unfamiliar.' And Woods is in the process of now far surpassing Nicklaus' efforts. What Im saying is that its not fair to compare guys from years past who stayed out all night drinking and ate hot dogs by the dozen before games, or who played against truck drivers and real estate agents moonlighting as football players, or who never played against the greatest athletes of an era - to anyone playing professional sports today. Let alone the guy having possibly the greatest single season of all-time in ANY sport. For many reaons, it just doesnt make sense.
Maybe you're right. They are just walking out on the field expecting the other team to give up the game. They are barely winning, because they're looking past opponents, feeling annointed. Really? That's not what I see. I see a team that wants to make darn sure they don't get caught from behind. That's not full of themselves, that's playing hard each and every week to get better. That's a huge difference.Sabertooth said:FWIW I've never seen a team more full of themselves than this year's Patriots. Maybe the 85 Bears, but even they weren't this arrogant.Yes the Colts rested late. But, they didn't take their foot off the pedal at this point. Maybe, just maybe, if they didn't get so full of themselves they would have at least made the SB that year? You don't get better playing less than your best. I firmly believe the Colts felt they were to be annointed that year, and it bit them in the ####. I also firmly believe such a fate will not befall the Pats. They may lost, but it wont be because they get full of themselves.don't feel bad, most aren't...it doesn't really reflect that poorly on you.Did they? Won't they?I wasn't aware of either of these "facts".shssshhh facts like how manning and the colts took their foot off the pedal while the pats and brady won't have no place in this thread.I don't think Brady is the greatest player ever. He may well put up the greatest single season performance ever for a QB, but there is still a ways to go. I think their remaining schedule, which includes PHI, BAL, PIT, NYG, is more difficult than their schedule to date... plus they will likely have some games in poor weather down the stretch. And they will also face the issue of whether or not to sit the players for some amount of the last few games. All of these things make it likely that Brady's pace will tail off, though I suspect he will break the record, barring injury, because it seems to be important to the Pats.I also think it is interesting to look back at Manning's pace in 2004, which I suspect was closer to Brady's current pace than most people remember. Brady is on pace for 4894 passing yards and 61 passing TDs over 16 games. After 10 games in 2004, Manning was on pace for 4736 passing yards and 56 passing TDs.10 games played
38 TDs- on pace for 60 TDs
3059 passing yards
only 4 INTs
74% comp. %
134 QB rating
we are watching the GREATEST single season performance EVER and the greatest player ever
But, the revisionist story sounds so much betrter. Frankly, I've never seen an NFL victory of more than 21 points until the Pats this year. They just like to run it up. NFL games are supposed to be won by 21 points or less. Records only count if they're broken under these parameters.rabidfireweasel said:
It isn't just the # of TD's that's so impressive about Brady. It's the lack of bad passes. It's thre reality that he'll end the season completing over 70% of his passes, and probably the highest QB rating in history. And, he's doing it w/ his #1 and #2 RB's on the bench for substantial portions of the season. Hutson had a great season, and career. My knock on guys from the old days is yes, they did play less games, against fewer teams. But, thje reality is there was a huge chasm between the very good players and the rest of the league. Coaches were not as good as they are now. In todays world a one man team like Hutson would be schemed against and taken away, because of the knowledge of the game todays coaches have. When you put things in context, they must be in full context. Back then guys like Hutson could dominate because of ability. Today, almost everybody on the field as good of an athlete as everybody else.
And what it is is your imagination. Here's week 5, when they throttled the Raiders, starting at the start of the 4th quarter.
Indianapolis Colts continues ...
1-4-OAK 4 (15:00) P.Manning pass incomplete to M.Harrison. PENALTY on OAK-C.Woodson, Defensive Holding, 2 yards, enforced at OAK 4 - No Play.
1-2-OAK 2 (14:57) E.James right tackle to OAK 4 for -2 yards (B.Hamilton).
2-4-OAK 4 (14:20) P.Manning pass incomplete to D.Clark.
3-4-OAK 4 (14:14) (Shotgun) P.Manning pass incomplete to M.Harrison. PENALTY on OAK-R.Buchanan, Defensive Holding, 2 yards, enforced at OAK 4 - No Play. Penalty on OAK-D.Clark, Illegal Contact, declined.
1-2-OAK 2 (14:10) E.James left tackle to OAK 1 for 1 yard (T.Smith, M.Anderson).
2-1-OAK 1 (13:34) E.James left end for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.
0-0-OAK 2 M.Bryant extra point is GOOD, Center-J.Snow, Holder-H.Smith.
Indianapolis Colts at 13:17
1-10-OAK 45 (13:17) E.James right tackle to OAK 44 for 1 yard (B.Hamilton).
2-9-OAK 44 (12:42) (Shotgun) P.Manning pass to R.Wayne to OAK 36 for 8 yards (D.Grant).
3-1-OAK 36 (11:59) E.James left tackle to OAK 31 for 5 yards (J.Parrella, N.Harris).
1-10-OAK 31 (11:17) E.James up the middle to OAK 28 for 3 yards (J.Parrella).
2-7-OAK 28 (10:35) D.Rhodes left end to OAK 27 for 1 yard (T.Brayton).
3-6-OAK 27 (9:48) (Shotgun) P.Manning pass incomplete to B.Stokley.
4-6-OAK 27 (9:42) M.Bryant 44 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Left, Center-J.Snow, Holder-H.Smith.
1-10-IND 20 (6:14) E.James right end to IND 27 for 7 yards (D.Grant, C.Woodson).
2-3-IND 27 (5:40) E.James right end to IND 26 for -1 yards (M.Anderson, T.Smith).
3-4-IND 26 (4:55) (Shotgun) P.Manning pass incomplete to B.Stokley.
4-4-IND 26 (4:51) H.Smith punts 62 yards to OAK 12, Center-J.Snow. P.Buchanon to OAK 15 for 3 yards (C.Bird, G.Gardner).
Oakland Raiders at 04:38
Indianapolis Colts at 02:52
1-10-IND 47 (2:52) D.Rhodes right end to IND 45 for -2 yards (D.Clark, M.Anderson).
Timeout #1 by OAK at 02:45.
2-12-IND 45 (2:45) D.Rhodes right tackle to IND 48 for 3 yards (D.Clark).
Timeout #2 by OAK at 02:40.
3-9-IND 48 (2:40) (Shotgun) P.Manning pass to R.Wayne to IND 46 for -2 yards (J.Fargas).
Timeout #3 by OAK at 02:33.
4-11-IND 46 (2:33) H.Smith punts 46 yards to OAK 8, Center-J.Snow, downed by IND-K.Whiteside.
Indianapolis Colts at 00:23
1-10-OAK 37
23) P.Manning kneels to OAK 38 for -1 yards.I think I counted 2 for 7 passing from Manning in there. Maybe what you meant to say is they didn't pass well? Did you also notice Manning in the whole game or a 41-14 victory?
*********************
On to week 10.
Indianapolis Colts at 12:02
1-10-IND 12 (12:02) P.Manning pass incomplete to M.Harrison.
2-10-IND 12 (11:57) P.Manning pass to M.Harrison to IND 25 for 13 yards (G.Earl).
1-10-IND 25 (11:21) P.Manning pass to R.Wayne to IND 37 for 12 yards (D.Robinson).
1-10-IND 37 (10:44) P.Manning pass intended for M.Pollard INTERCEPTED by A.Peek at HOU 48. A.Peek to IND 32 for 20 yards (D.Clark).
Indianapolis Colts at 07:47
K.Brown kicks 58 yards from HOU 30 to IND 12. D.Rhodes MUFFS catch, touched at IND 12, and recovers at IND 9. D.Rhodes to IND 14 for 5 yards (G.Earl).
1-10-IND 14 (7:42) E.James up the middle to IND 15 for 1 yard (A.Peek).
2-9-IND 15 (6:58) E.James left tackle to IND 17 for 2 yards (G.Earl, R.Smith).
3-7-IND 17 (6:24) P.Manning pass to A.Moorehead pushed ob at HOU 49 for 34 yards (D.Robinson). Penalty on IND-A.Moorehead, Illegal Shift, declined. Penalty on IND-R.Wayne, Illegal Shift, declined. PENALTY on HOU-G.Earl, Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at IND 17 - No Play.
1-10-IND 32 (6:24) E.James left end to IND 39 for 7 yards (J.Sharper).
2-3-IND 39 (6:24) E.James left end to IND 41 for 2 yards (S.Payne).
3-1-IND 41 (4:22) P.Manning pass incomplete to M.Harrison.
4-1-IND 41 (4:22) (Punt formation) PENALTY on IND-J.Jefferson, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at IND 41 - No Play.
4-6-IND 36 (4:16) H.Smith punts 51 yards to HOU 13, Center-J.Snow. J.Moses to HOU 26 for 13 yards (J.Snow).
Here we see Manning go 2/6 with a INT in the 4th quarter of a 49-14 win. In it until the end, throwing 6 of his 27 passes in the 4th auarter, or the same relativve pace as he die, ALL GAME.
**************************************
Week 11
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?g...&week=REG11
Indianapolis Colts at 04:52
1-10-IND 46 (4:52) E.James right tackle to IND 49 for 3 yards (M.Green).
2-7-IND 49 (4:19) (No Huddle) E.James left guard to CHI 47 for 4 yards (L.Briggs).
3-3-CHI 47 (3:39) (No Huddle, Shotgun) P.Manning pass to D.Clark to CHI 38 for 9 yards (J.Odom, To.Johnson).
1-10-CHI 38 (2:53) (No Huddle) E.James left tackle to CHI 30 for 8 yards (Ta.Johnson, To.Johnson).
2-2-CHI 30 (2:08) E.James right tackle to CHI 26 for 4 yards (H.Hillenmeyer).
1-10-CHI 26 (1:20) P.Manning pass to M.Harrison pushed ob at CHI 11 for 15 yards (R.McQuarters).
1-10-CHI 11
48) E.James left guard for 11 yards, TOUCHDOWN.M.Vanderjagt extra point is GOOD, Center-J.Snow, Holder-H.Smith.
4th Quarter expand [+] collapse [-]
Indianapolis Colts at 12:42
1-10-IND 20 (12:42) #12 J.Sorgi in at QB. PENALTY on IND-B.Hartsock, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at IND 20 - No Play.
1-15-IND 15 (12:42) D.Rhodes right end to IND 22 for 7 yards (H.Hillenmeyer).
2-8-IND 22 (12:03) D.Rhodes left tackle to IND 32 for 10 yards (To.Johnson).
1-10-IND 32 (11:15) D.Rhodes left end to IND 46 for 14 yards (To.Johnson). PENALTY on CHI-A.Brown, Illegal Use of Hands, 5 yards, enforced at IND 46.
1-10-CHI 49 (10:44) D.Rhodes left tackle to CHI 43 for 6 yards (H.Hillenmeyer, M.Green).
2-4-CHI 43 (9:55) PENALTY on IND-J.Sorgi, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at CHI 43 - No Play.
2-9-CHI 48 (9:32) J.Mungro left guard to CHI 43 for 5 yards (L.Briggs, I.Scott).
3-4-CHI 43 (8:50) J.Mungro left tackle to CHI 35 for 8 yards (To.Johnson, J.Azumah).
1-10-CHI 35 (8:04) D.Rhodes right guard to CHI 18 for 17 yards (M.Green).
1-10-CHI 18 (7:12) D.Rhodes left tackle to CHI 21 for -3 yards (J.Odom).
2-13-CHI 21 (6:25) J.Mungro left guard to CHI 19 for 2 yards (Ta.Johnson).
3-11-CHI 19 (5:43) D.Rhodes left end to CHI 19 for no gain (J.Azumah).
4-11-CHI 19 (4:56) D.Rhodes left tackle to CHI 17 for 2 yards (J.Odom, L.Briggs).
1-10-IND 34 (1:31) J.Sorgi kneels to IND 33 for -1 yards.
2-11-IND 33
49) J.Sorgi kneels to IND 32 for -1 yards.3-12-IND 32
24) J.Sorgi kneels to IND 31 for -1 yards.END GAME
You got one right. The Colts one drive in the 4th quarter was all runs, with Sorgi at the Helm. Of course, you completely discount the drive that culminates in a TD immediately prior, where Manning thwors the ball in a drive that started at mid field.
*****************************
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?g...&week=REG12
WEek 12
Indianapolis Colts at 05:27
1-10-DET 36 (5:27) E.James left tackle to DET 34 for 2 yards (S.Rogers).
2-8-DET 34 (4:52) P.Manning pass to B.Stokley to DET 27 for 7 yards (D.Bly).
3-1-DET 27 (4:22) P.Manning right end to DET 23 for 4 yards (C.Redding, F.Bryant).
1-10-DET 23 (3:40) P.Manning pass to M.Harrison to DET 11 for 12 yards (F.Bryant).
1-10-DET 11 (2:54) E.James up the middle to DET 5 for 6 yards (B.Walker).
2-4-DET 5 (2:15) P.Manning pass to M.Harrison for 5 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
M.Vanderjagt extra point is GOOD, Center-J.Snow, Holder-H.Smith.
Mannings last drive in the 3rd. He left the game in favor of Sorgi, who does throw a couple of passes in the game. Notice Manning tthrowing the ball around the yard in the third with a 34-9 lead?
So, in two of the four games you mentioned, Manning did go to the bench. IN one of the four, the Colts didn't throw a pass, but only when Sorgi was in. Let's be honest here. Over the four game stretch, we're talking 4 possessions that you were right on. Manning left and Sorgi didn't throw. With Manning in, they thres the ball with the same frequency as the rest of the game. It may not have netted the same results as earlier, as defenses adjusted. But, rest assured, the Colts played their games late. As they should.
I'm not comparing Hutson directly to Brady. I'm comparing Hutson to his peers, and Brady to his peers, and then comparing the gaps. And yes, I think that makes perfect sense. Sure, Hutson was playing in a different era, but so were all of his peers. Besides, how can you say that we can't compare players across eras when you yourself say that Brady is having possibly the greatest season of all time- isn't that a comparison across eras? So you're saying I can't compare Hutson to Brady, but you can compare Brady to Hutson, Jim Brown, Gale Sayers, O.J. Simpson, Jerry Rice, Sammy Baugh, Otto Graham, and every other dominant player in the history of the NFL?Now, if Don Hutson discovered a time machine and appeared in the NFL today, I don't think he could make a roster. That doesn't change the fact that he was the single most dominant receiver in NFL history, and he had what was, in my opinion, the single most dominant season in NFL history.Brady is having an unbelievable season that doesn't need any qualification, but in my mind it's slightly less unbelievable given the massive liberalization of the passing game in recent years and the fact that the record he's chasing has been coming under extremely heavy fire for years now. It's not like all of a sudden just Brady is playing out of his mind- every QB in the league is suddenly playing out of his mind, too. Like I said, Tony Romo is on pace to have the 4th most TD passes in a single season in NFL history. You don't think that two players suddenly having historic years has something to do with the environment, just like when Manning and Culpepper started rewriting the record books in 2004?
Dt's Mules
Footballguy
4 possessions? Not sure how you arrived at that as there were whole quarters he sat out...also do you think defenses suddenly figured out what they hadn't been able to do all game or did the colts begin throwing underneath routes trying to eat up clock, not all pass attempts are the sameAnd what it is is your imagination. Here's week 5, when they throttled the Raiders, starting at the start of the 4th quarter.
Indianapolis Colts continues ...
1-4-OAK 4 (15:00) P.Manning pass incomplete to M.Harrison. PENALTY on OAK-C.Woodson, Defensive Holding, 2 yards, enforced at OAK 4 - No Play.
1-2-OAK 2 (14:57) E.James right tackle to OAK 4 for -2 yards (B.Hamilton).
2-4-OAK 4 (14:20) P.Manning pass incomplete to D.Clark.
3-4-OAK 4 (14:14) (Shotgun) P.Manning pass incomplete to M.Harrison. PENALTY on OAK-R.Buchanan, Defensive Holding, 2 yards, enforced at OAK 4 - No Play. Penalty on OAK-D.Clark, Illegal Contact, declined.
1-2-OAK 2 (14:10) E.James left tackle to OAK 1 for 1 yard (T.Smith, M.Anderson).
2-1-OAK 1 (13:34) E.James left end for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.
0-0-OAK 2 M.Bryant extra point is GOOD, Center-J.Snow, Holder-H.Smith.
Indianapolis Colts at 13:17
1-10-OAK 45 (13:17) E.James right tackle to OAK 44 for 1 yard (B.Hamilton).
2-9-OAK 44 (12:42) (Shotgun) P.Manning pass to R.Wayne to OAK 36 for 8 yards (D.Grant).
3-1-OAK 36 (11:59) E.James left tackle to OAK 31 for 5 yards (J.Parrella, N.Harris).
1-10-OAK 31 (11:17) E.James up the middle to OAK 28 for 3 yards (J.Parrella).
2-7-OAK 28 (10:35) D.Rhodes left end to OAK 27 for 1 yard (T.Brayton).
3-6-OAK 27 (9:48) (Shotgun) P.Manning pass incomplete to B.Stokley.
4-6-OAK 27 (9:42) M.Bryant 44 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Left, Center-J.Snow, Holder-H.Smith.
1-10-IND 20 (6:14) E.James right end to IND 27 for 7 yards (D.Grant, C.Woodson).
2-3-IND 27 (5:40) E.James right end to IND 26 for -1 yards (M.Anderson, T.Smith).
3-4-IND 26 (4:55) (Shotgun) P.Manning pass incomplete to B.Stokley.
4-4-IND 26 (4:51) H.Smith punts 62 yards to OAK 12, Center-J.Snow. P.Buchanon to OAK 15 for 3 yards (C.Bird, G.Gardner).
Oakland Raiders at 04:38
Indianapolis Colts at 02:52
1-10-IND 47 (2:52) D.Rhodes right end to IND 45 for -2 yards (D.Clark, M.Anderson).
Timeout #1 by OAK at 02:45.
2-12-IND 45 (2:45) D.Rhodes right tackle to IND 48 for 3 yards (D.Clark).
Timeout #2 by OAK at 02:40.
3-9-IND 48 (2:40) (Shotgun) P.Manning pass to R.Wayne to IND 46 for -2 yards (J.Fargas).
Timeout #3 by OAK at 02:33.
4-11-IND 46 (2:33) H.Smith punts 46 yards to OAK 8, Center-J.Snow, downed by IND-K.Whiteside.
Indianapolis Colts at 00:23
1-10-OAK 37
I think I counted 2 for 7 passing from Manning in there. Maybe what you meant to say is they didn't pass well? Did you also notice Manning in the whole game or a 41-14 victory?
*********************
On to week 10.
Indianapolis Colts at 12:02
1-10-IND 12 (12:02) P.Manning pass incomplete to M.Harrison.
2-10-IND 12 (11:57) P.Manning pass to M.Harrison to IND 25 for 13 yards (G.Earl).
1-10-IND 25 (11:21) P.Manning pass to R.Wayne to IND 37 for 12 yards (D.Robinson).
1-10-IND 37 (10:44) P.Manning pass intended for M.Pollard INTERCEPTED by A.Peek at HOU 48. A.Peek to IND 32 for 20 yards (D.Clark).
Indianapolis Colts at 07:47
K.Brown kicks 58 yards from HOU 30 to IND 12. D.Rhodes MUFFS catch, touched at IND 12, and recovers at IND 9. D.Rhodes to IND 14 for 5 yards (G.Earl).
1-10-IND 14 (7:42) E.James up the middle to IND 15 for 1 yard (A.Peek).
2-9-IND 15 (6:58) E.James left tackle to IND 17 for 2 yards (G.Earl, R.Smith).
3-7-IND 17 (6:24) P.Manning pass to A.Moorehead pushed ob at HOU 49 for 34 yards (D.Robinson). Penalty on IND-A.Moorehead, Illegal Shift, declined. Penalty on IND-R.Wayne, Illegal Shift, declined. PENALTY on HOU-G.Earl, Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at IND 17 - No Play.
1-10-IND 32 (6:24) E.James left end to IND 39 for 7 yards (J.Sharper).
2-3-IND 39 (6:24) E.James left end to IND 41 for 2 yards (S.Payne).
3-1-IND 41 (4:22) P.Manning pass incomplete to M.Harrison.
4-1-IND 41 (4:22) (Punt formation) PENALTY on IND-J.Jefferson, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at IND 41 - No Play.
4-6-IND 36 (4:16) H.Smith punts 51 yards to HOU 13, Center-J.Snow. J.Moses to HOU 26 for 13 yards (J.Snow).
Here we see Manning go 2/6 with a INT in the 4th quarter of a 49-14 win. In it until the end, throwing 6 of his 27 passes in the 4th auarter, or the same relativve pace as he die, ALL GAME.
**************************************
Week 11
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?g...&week=REG11
Indianapolis Colts at 04:52
1-10-IND 46 (4:52) E.James right tackle to IND 49 for 3 yards (M.Green).
2-7-IND 49 (4:19) (No Huddle) E.James left guard to CHI 47 for 4 yards (L.Briggs).
3-3-CHI 47 (3:39) (No Huddle, Shotgun) P.Manning pass to D.Clark to CHI 38 for 9 yards (J.Odom, To.Johnson).
1-10-CHI 38 (2:53) (No Huddle) E.James left tackle to CHI 30 for 8 yards (Ta.Johnson, To.Johnson).
2-2-CHI 30 (2:08) E.James right tackle to CHI 26 for 4 yards (H.Hillenmeyer).
1-10-CHI 26 (1:20) P.Manning pass to M.Harrison pushed ob at CHI 11 for 15 yards (R.McQuarters).
1-10-CHI 11
M.Vanderjagt extra point is GOOD, Center-J.Snow, Holder-H.Smith.
4th Quarter expand [+] collapse [-]
Indianapolis Colts at 12:42
1-10-IND 20 (12:42) #12 J.Sorgi in at QB. PENALTY on IND-B.Hartsock, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at IND 20 - No Play.
1-15-IND 15 (12:42) D.Rhodes right end to IND 22 for 7 yards (H.Hillenmeyer).
2-8-IND 22 (12:03) D.Rhodes left tackle to IND 32 for 10 yards (To.Johnson).
1-10-IND 32 (11:15) D.Rhodes left end to IND 46 for 14 yards (To.Johnson). PENALTY on CHI-A.Brown, Illegal Use of Hands, 5 yards, enforced at IND 46.
1-10-CHI 49 (10:44) D.Rhodes left tackle to CHI 43 for 6 yards (H.Hillenmeyer, M.Green).
2-4-CHI 43 (9:55) PENALTY on IND-J.Sorgi, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at CHI 43 - No Play.
2-9-CHI 48 (9:32) J.Mungro left guard to CHI 43 for 5 yards (L.Briggs, I.Scott).
3-4-CHI 43 (8:50) J.Mungro left tackle to CHI 35 for 8 yards (To.Johnson, J.Azumah).
1-10-CHI 35 (8:04) D.Rhodes right guard to CHI 18 for 17 yards (M.Green).
1-10-CHI 18 (7:12) D.Rhodes left tackle to CHI 21 for -3 yards (J.Odom).
2-13-CHI 21 (6:25) J.Mungro left guard to CHI 19 for 2 yards (Ta.Johnson).
3-11-CHI 19 (5:43) D.Rhodes left end to CHI 19 for no gain (J.Azumah).
4-11-CHI 19 (4:56) D.Rhodes left tackle to CHI 17 for 2 yards (J.Odom, L.Briggs).
1-10-IND 34 (1:31) J.Sorgi kneels to IND 33 for -1 yards.
2-11-IND 33
3-12-IND 32
END GAME
You got one right. The Colts one drive in the 4th quarter was all runs, with Sorgi at the Helm. Of course, you completely discount the drive that culminates in a TD immediately prior, where Manning thwors the ball in a drive that started at mid field.
*****************************
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?g...&week=REG12
WEek 12
Indianapolis Colts at 05:27
1-10-DET 36 (5:27) E.James left tackle to DET 34 for 2 yards (S.Rogers).
2-8-DET 34 (4:52) P.Manning pass to B.Stokley to DET 27 for 7 yards (D.Bly).
3-1-DET 27 (4:22) P.Manning right end to DET 23 for 4 yards (C.Redding, F.Bryant).
1-10-DET 23 (3:40) P.Manning pass to M.Harrison to DET 11 for 12 yards (F.Bryant).
1-10-DET 11 (2:54) E.James up the middle to DET 5 for 6 yards (B.Walker).
2-4-DET 5 (2:15) P.Manning pass to M.Harrison for 5 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
M.Vanderjagt extra point is GOOD, Center-J.Snow, Holder-H.Smith.
Mannings last drive in the 3rd. He left the game in favor of Sorgi, who does throw a couple of passes in the game. Notice Manning tthrowing the ball around the yard in the third with a 34-9 lead?
So, in two of the four games you mentioned, Manning did go to the bench. IN one of the four, the Colts didn't throw a pass, but only when Sorgi was in. Let's be honest here. Over the four game stretch, we're talking 4 possessions that you were right on. Manning left and Sorgi didn't throw. With Manning in, they thres the ball with the same frequency as the rest of the game. It may not have netted the same results as earlier, as defenses adjusted. But, rest assured, the Colts played their games late. As they should.
BigRed
Footballguy
Don't bother; you should realize by now you're wasting your time.I will say that even if Manning and the Colts had played w/the same no-class, score-as-many-as-you-can-even-if-not-needed attitude as NE - ie Manning would've probably hit the 60s in TDs - Brady would still be threatening it.
Dt's Mules
Footballguy
agree completely...i am just shocked by the short term memories of some people...this is probably the greatest season by any qb in history, but it isn't "that" much greater than previous greats
SuperJohn96
RPS World Champion
There is only one Great One and he played hockey.:99:the great 1 is about to take the field to continue the perfect season and the chase for the passing TD record
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