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Couple of questions about re-drafts (1 Viewer)

If serpentine why

  • Can't get the old timers to switch

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I like it better

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • other

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Just curious, looking at most of the leagues on the looking for leagues page use serpentine and I really have to wonder why. 3rr and 3rs just seem to me to be far better.

It's a Friday :shrug:

 
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I really pushed my league to move to 3rd round flip system last year and failed. I made this recommendation based on a great article I read on this site. Even though I tried to explain, in detail, why this is a more fair drafting system, I still received a lot of resistance. I think some people are just scared of change. The one negative that I see to the third round flip is that it is very difficult to find mock drafts that use the system. That, in itself, may be a reason to avoid 3rd round flip until more people get on board.

 
Serpentine is so imbalanced it takes much of the fun out of it. I got all of my leagues to switch (that don't do auction). Here is how.

I told those who felt serpentine was better that we should lottery not for the draft positions, but for the right to select our draft position. Those who feel serpentine are better should have no qualms selecting their draft position last (they lottery amongst themselves). Those of us who don't like serpentine get to pick our spots first. Suddenly, they don't think that is fair and resist...

I then make the reverse of the offer that they feel was so unfair. Since 3RR and 3RS are so much better, I am willing to let everyone else who prefers serpentine to select their draft positions and I will take whatever draft spot is left over. They tend to get the point...

 
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I used to go back every year and look over the drafts (serpentine) in two of my leagues and have never seen a correllation between draft position and success.

 
I know you said you didn't care about auction, however, we auction the first five rounds, then go serpentine by a random draft order the rest of the way. Takes care of the fairness issue because every team has a shot at the top tier players, then we get the speed of the serpentine the rest of the way.

 
Serpentine is so imbalanced it takes much of the fun out of it. I got all of my leagues to switch (that don't do auction). Here is how.I told those who felt serpentine was better that we should lottery not for the draft positions, but for the right to select our draft position. Those who feel serpentine are better should have no qualms selecting their draft position last (they lottery amongst themselves). Those of us who don't like serpentine get to pick our spots first. Suddenly, they don't think that is fair and resist...I then make the reverse of the offer that they feel was so unfair. Since 3RR and 3RS are so much better, I am willing to let everyone else who prefers serpentine to select their draft positions and I will take whatever draft spot is left over. They tend to get the point...
Nice. I hope everyone else read this and took notes. It can be really tough to get a bunch of owners to agree to league changes, and this strategy eliminates most of the pissing, moaning, and complaining. Most, b/c "that guy" never quite gets it.
 
Forgive the "nooby" question, but what is the difference between the non-serpentine methods? I am considering changing, but not sure of the best way to go.

 
Serpentine is so imbalanced it takes much of the fun out of it. I got all of my leagues to switch (that don't do auction). Here is how.

I told those who felt serpentine was better that we should lottery not for the draft positions, but for the right to select our draft position. Those who feel serpentine are better should have no qualms selecting their draft position last (they lottery amongst themselves). Those of us who don't like serpentine get to pick our spots first. Suddenly, they don't think that is fair and resist...

I then make the reverse of the offer that they feel was so unfair. Since 3RR and 3RS are so much better, I am willing to let everyone else who prefers serpentine to select their draft positions and I will take whatever draft spot is left over. They tend to get the point...
Yep. Indifference to possible choices is the essence of fair division. First things first: the following idea is way too crazy to actually put into practice.

But I think the cake-cutting solution is the best one. So you know how split a piece of cake between two people. One cuts, the other chooses. No one can complain. But what if you have to split the cake among three people? Or four? One way to go is this, let's say with 12 people:

1. Person A cuts off a piece that he is willing to take.

2. Person B does not have the option of taking that piece. But he can cut something off it and declare that he is willing to take the now-smaller piece. In either event, he passes some piece --- either Person A's or a smaller one which he has claimed --- along to Person C.

3. Person C cannot take that piece, but he can cut something off it and declare that he is willing to take the now-even-smaller piece.

and so on down the line...

Eventually, some piece, which is either Person A's piece, or one smaller than that, gets to the last person in line. He can either (a) cut something off it and take it, or (b) let it stand and be claimed by the last person who cut something off it. Whoever gets it, no one can complain about what he got, because no one in line was willing to take anything less.

Now you take what's left of the cake, reshuffle the 11 remaining people, and do the whole thing again. Keep doing the same process until there are two people left. They do divide-and-choose (which is actually equivalent to this process with two people)

Draft picks aren't quite as finely divisible as pieces of cake are, so the analogy isn't exactly perfect. But I still think this would be a great way to divvy up FF draft slots. Let's say, for simplicity, that it's a 12-team draft with four rounds. So there are 48 picks.

I'm Person A. I say: "I'm willing to take picks #1, #8, #40, and #46"

Now, the next guy in line has to either say, "you can have 'em" or "no way. I'll take #1, #9, #40, and #46".

Then he passes that on to Person C, who can either let it stand, or he can say, "I'll take #2, #9, #40, and #46"

Let's say that gets to the end of the line with nobody willing to slice anything off it. Then Person C has his picks and he's done. The remaining 11 divvy up the remaining 44 picks the same way.

Sounds like fun, huh? :wub:

 
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Serpentine is so imbalanced it takes much of the fun out of it. I got all of my leagues to switch (that don't do auction). Here is how.

I told those who felt serpentine was better that we should lottery not for the draft positions, but for the right to select our draft position. Those who feel serpentine are better should have no qualms selecting their draft position last (they lottery amongst themselves). Those of us who don't like serpentine get to pick our spots first. Suddenly, they don't think that is fair and resist...

I then make the reverse of the offer that they feel was so unfair. Since 3RR and 3RS are so much better, I am willing to let everyone else who prefers serpentine to select their draft positions and I will take whatever draft spot is left over. They tend to get the point...
Yep. Indifference to possible choices is the essence of fair division. First things first: the following idea is way too crazy to actually put into practice.

But I think the cake-cutting solution is the best one. So you know how split a piece of cake between two people. One cuts, the other chooses. No one can complain. But what if you have to split the cake among three people? Or four? One way to go is this, let's say with 12 people:

1. Person A cuts off a piece that he is willing to take.

2. Person B does not have the option of taking that piece. But he can cut something off it and declare that he is willing to take the now-smaller piece. In either event, he passes some piece --- either Person A's or a smaller one which he has claimed --- along to Person C.

3. Person C cannot take that piece, but he can cut something off it and declare that he is willing to take the now-even-smaller piece.

and so on down the line...

Eventually, some piece, which is either Person A's piece, or one smaller than that, gets to the last person in line. He can either (a) cut something off it and take it, or (b) let it stand and be claimed by the last person who cut something off it. Whoever gets it, no one can complain about what he got, because no one in line was willing to take anything less.

Now you take what's left of the cake, reshuffle the 11 remaining people, and do the whole thing again. Keep doing the same process until there are two people left. They do divide-and-choose (which is actually equivalent to this process with two people)

Draft picks aren't quite as finely divisible as pieces of cake are, so the analogy isn't exactly perfect. But I still think this would be a great way to divvy up FF draft slots. Let's say, for simplicity, that it's a 12-team draft with four rounds. So there are 48 picks.

I'm Person A. I say: "I'm willing to take picks #1, #8, #40, and #46"

Now, the next guy in line has to either say, "you can have 'em" or "no way. I'll take #1, #9, #40, and #46".

Then he passes that on to Person C, who can either let it stand, or he can say, "I'll take #2, #9, #40, and #46"

Let's say that gets to the end of the line with nobody willing to slice anything off it. Then Person C has his picks and he's done. The remaining 11 divvy up the remaining 44 picks the same way.

Sounds like fun, huh? :wub:
*places gun to head*
 
What make 3rr so much better? This year there are alot of folks liking the bottom better. I know I would love 12, 13 and 25. You have to remember 3rr was basicly a knee jerk reaction to the dominance of LT at the top of the draft. We haven't had that for a couple of years. I think there is huge advantage to the bottom this year in 3rr

 
Serpentine is so imbalanced it takes much of the fun out of it. I got all of my leagues to switch (that don't do auction). Here is how.

I told those who felt serpentine was better that we should lottery not for the draft positions, but for the right to select our draft position. Those who feel serpentine are better should have no qualms selecting their draft position last (they lottery amongst themselves). Those of us who don't like serpentine get to pick our spots first. Suddenly, they don't think that is fair and resist...

I then make the reverse of the offer that they feel was so unfair. Since 3RR and 3RS are so much better, I am willing to let everyone else who prefers serpentine to select their draft positions and I will take whatever draft spot is left over. They tend to get the point...
Yep. Indifference to possible choices is the essence of fair division. First things first: the following idea is way too crazy to actually put into practice.

But I think the cake-cutting solution is the best one. So you know how split a piece of cake between two people. One cuts, the other chooses. No one can complain. But what if you have to split the cake among three people? Or four? One way to go is this, let's say with 12 people:

1. Person A cuts off a piece that he is willing to take.

2. Person B does not have the option of taking that piece. But he can cut something off it and declare that he is willing to take the now-smaller piece. In either event, he passes some piece --- either Person A's or a smaller one which he has claimed --- along to Person C.

3. Person C cannot take that piece, but he can cut something off it and declare that he is willing to take the now-even-smaller piece.

and so on down the line...

Eventually, some piece, which is either Person A's piece, or one smaller than that, gets to the last person in line. He can either (a) cut something off it and take it, or (b) let it stand and be claimed by the last person who cut something off it. Whoever gets it, no one can complain about what he got, because no one in line was willing to take anything less.

Now you take what's left of the cake, reshuffle the 11 remaining people, and do the whole thing again. Keep doing the same process until there are two people left. They do divide-and-choose (which is actually equivalent to this process with two people)

Draft picks aren't quite as finely divisible as pieces of cake are, so the analogy isn't exactly perfect. But I still think this would be a great way to divvy up FF draft slots. Let's say, for simplicity, that it's a 12-team draft with four rounds. So there are 48 picks.

I'm Person A. I say: "I'm willing to take picks #1, #8, #40, and #46"

Now, the next guy in line has to either say, "you can have 'em" or "no way. I'll take #1, #9, #40, and #46".

Then he passes that on to Person C, who can either let it stand, or he can say, "I'll take #2, #9, #40, and #46"

Let's say that gets to the end of the line with nobody willing to slice anything off it. Then Person C has his picks and he's done. The remaining 11 divvy up the remaining 44 picks the same way.

Sounds like fun, huh? :confused:
IN
 
We let teams pick where they draft in serpentine off of last year's inverted results, with the toilet bowl champ getting first draft slot pick.

Serpentine is easier, and letting teams pick their spots remove the fairness whining.

 

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