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Covid and School This Fall (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter ChiefD
- Start date
shadyridr
Footballguy
As of Saturday, 36 children under 15 have died from COVID-19, about 0.03 percent of all coronavirus deaths at the time, according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
The flu, another contagious respiratory illness, killed an estimated 477 people under 17 years old in the 2018 – 2019 season, according to the CDC. From 2010 to the end of the 2019 flu season, the CDC said the illness killed an average of 511 children each year.
The flu, another contagious respiratory illness, killed an estimated 477 people under 17 years old in the 2018 – 2019 season, according to the CDC. From 2010 to the end of the 2019 flu season, the CDC said the illness killed an average of 511 children each year.
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
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shadyridr
Footballguy
You're talking to someone who lost a child. Do you seriously think I implied that?
Bottom line is covid is a lot less deadly to children than the flu. Schools need to be open in areas of low transmission with the risk to children being so low and the benefit so great. Even the CDC recommends this.
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
I am absolutely sorry about you losing a child. No idea how I can address that. Be strong, brother.
Kids may not be dying, but there is evidence of potential serious long term lung damage even in asymptomatic children, and, as linked in one of the other threads, increasing cases of MIS-C linked to Covid.
Article out of Florida (Bolding Mine)
Article out of Florida (Bolding Mine)
matuski
Footballguy
This type of data is meaningless.
The article itself acknowledges it has no idea of the prevalence.
matuski
Footballguy
shadyridr
Footballguy
You seem to agree with them when its convenient for your stance and disagree with them when its not.
shadyridr
Footballguy
now that they know about the Mis-c, it seems when caught early it is easy to treat. Its similar to kawasaki which also as far as I know has never shut down schools.
As for long term damage in asymptomatic children, I find that hard to believe.
The Commish
Footballguy
This inability to look past the here and now (short term) is mind boggling to me. I don't get it. Has politics really been allowed to taint our cognition that significantly?
The Gator
Footballguy
meh - we have been getting fatter, drunker, and stupider long before covid came along to speed things up!
The Commish
Footballguy
We got a 32 page plan from our school last night...yep, 32 pages 
We are in Volusia county here in Florida (just outside of Orlando). Our kids go to a desired charter school (no, not all charter schools here suck ). They've done their homework. We have the choice of in person learning or virtual learning on the regular day schedule. If they are at home, they will be learning with their classmates who are in the classroom. They will have a designated "assistant" to help them virtually as the teacher is teaching should they have any technical issues. The assistant will also be responsible for making sure the student is staying on task.
AT SCHOOL, the students are required to wear masks at all times and the desks are arranged in pods of four keeping 5 feet apart with 3 foot "dividers" between the desks. The hallways are one way at all times and all doors will remain open to limit touching. The classrooms are disinfected between classes and the hallways while class is going on. From my view, the only miss they have is that lunch will continue to be in the lunchroom rather than the classroom. All meals will be designed so that they can be individually wrapped and provided. No lockers are allowed to be used. Kids will be required to carry their stuff with them at all times and no shared supplies at all. They are also deploying a new app for drop off and pick up at the end of the day. Students will be kept in their classroom and only dismissed as the notification of parent arrival on campus is sent to the classroom. I kind of find that app thing comical given all the protest around NOT having a covid app on a phone to help with contact tracing. It's the exact same concept, but I digress.
Then it goes into detail about the areas they have designated for those who are found sick at school (teachers and students) and while they don't come out and say it, it does NOT appear that if a case of sickness is discovered that the entire class would have to be sent home. It appears they will report the incident to the county incident management hub and ask for their guidance. Our county has been clear in saying they will absolutely shut a school down if they deem it necessary. It appears that if a case is found, faculty/staff/janitors will thoroughly clean the areas where that student was. Still reading through the rest, but it's pretty clear they've been really thinking about this whole thing and it will be very different from what happened this past spring in terms of remote learning. Our kids did fine with the shift...they both actually had better grades, but it was work at your own pace and had we not been there to keep them on task, it could have been a disaster.
We are in Volusia county here in Florida (just outside of Orlando). Our kids go to a desired charter school (no, not all charter schools here suck
). They've done their homework. We have the choice of in person learning or virtual learning on the regular day schedule. If they are at home, they will be learning with their classmates who are in the classroom. They will have a designated "assistant" to help them virtually as the teacher is teaching should they have any technical issues. The assistant will also be responsible for making sure the student is staying on task. AT SCHOOL, the students are required to wear masks at all times and the desks are arranged in pods of four keeping 5 feet apart with 3 foot "dividers" between the desks. The hallways are one way at all times and all doors will remain open to limit touching. The classrooms are disinfected between classes and the hallways while class is going on. From my view, the only miss they have is that lunch will continue to be in the lunchroom rather than the classroom. All meals will be designed so that they can be individually wrapped and provided. No lockers are allowed to be used. Kids will be required to carry their stuff with them at all times and no shared supplies at all. They are also deploying a new app for drop off and pick up at the end of the day. Students will be kept in their classroom and only dismissed as the notification of parent arrival on campus is sent to the classroom. I kind of find that app thing comical given all the protest around NOT having a covid app on a phone to help with contact tracing. It's the exact same concept, but I digress.
Then it goes into detail about the areas they have designated for those who are found sick at school (teachers and students) and while they don't come out and say it, it does NOT appear that if a case of sickness is discovered that the entire class would have to be sent home. It appears they will report the incident to the county incident management hub and ask for their guidance. Our county has been clear in saying they will absolutely shut a school down if they deem it necessary. It appears that if a case is found, faculty/staff/janitors will thoroughly clean the areas where that student was. Still reading through the rest, but it's pretty clear they've been really thinking about this whole thing and it will be very different from what happened this past spring in terms of remote learning. Our kids did fine with the shift...they both actually had better grades, but it was work at your own pace and had we not been there to keep them on task, it could have been a disaster.
shader
Footballguy
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/23/health/cdc-coronavirus-school-guidelines-new/index.html
"It is critically important for our public health to open schools this fall," CDC Director Dr. Robert Redfield said in a statement announcing the updates.
Literally the dumbest thing I've ever read. Redfield is the director of the Centers of Disease Control. He should not be talking to us about public schools opening. That's a directive he's been given to follow.
Redfield then goes on to twist scientific studies. Yes, school-aged children are not as likely to die from covid. But the studies that have been done seem to show that while school-aged children don't pass it on as much as adults, in school their opportunities to spread the disease are up to 3 times as high.
The bottom line is that schools will open and Johnny will pass it to Sally, and Sally will pass it to her grandma, and her grandma will die. That kind of thing is going to happen. So if you're all cool with it, open schools.
Whatever the R0 is in a state is before schools open, will INEVITABLY go up if schools open.
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shadyridr
Footballguy
shader
Footballguy
There are a lot of kids in school that live in the same home as at-risk people. Whether they are being raised by older parents, raised by grandparents, or the grandparents live in the same house, this is not an uncommon thing.
MAC_32
Footballguy
shadyridr
Footballguy
shadyridr
Footballguy
shader
Footballguy
Cmon man, we all know that schools increase the opportunities for viruses to spread. Any parent who has ever sent their kid to school knows this. Can you try not to be quite so argumentative?
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CR69
Footballguy
shadyridr
Footballguy
shader
Footballguy
I don't know what's happened to you during this pandemic. Before it, you were always one of my favorite posters. But you're full of ridiculous takes, your alter ego jobarules did nothing but troll...what's your deal man? Instead of seeking out my posts to ridicule, just put me on ignore? Would make the board better for all. Or stop with the trollish behavior. Please.
shadyridr
Footballguy
Not going to get into it with you. Before the pandemic, I didn't even know who you were. Now you are Dr Doom. Not trolling. I am being honest. Just because you don't like my honesty doesn't mean Im a troll.
shader
Footballguy
I wasn't trying to get into it with you. I was asking if you could tone down the behavior. Obviously you can't, so I'll be the one doing the ignoring. And calling someone Dr Doom is the definition of trollish behavior.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
OUSD had their board meeting last night and laid out the plan - no surprise as it will be online to begin until such time as we are off of the governor's watch list for counties with high infection rates, at which point they will move to their "Phase 2" which includes the option to either return to school (still modified schedule) or remain online.
For elementary school aged kids, the schedule is essentially log on at 8:10 (I may be off by a few minutes here and there) and essentially they will have instruction until 1:15ish each day. There are planned breaks/lunch in there. It appears it will be a fairly set schedule as far as subject, ie math from 8:30-9:15, English from 9:25-10:30, etc.
The middle school and high school are fairly similar in that they are basically splitting the trimester/semester up so that you are taking half your class load in the first half, the other half in the second half of each trimester/semester. The thought behind this is that it allows the students to only need to focus on a smaller number of classes at a time while doing remote, and it also allows the teachers to focus on a smaller number of classes at a time. Date ranges are a little different for each as the middle schools are on a trimester system while the high school is a semester system. But, in short, from the stat of school in mid-August until early October, students would be taking say Periods 1, 3 and 5. Then from October until end of November they take period 2, 4 and 6. Some other intricacies - for middle school, as they are on a 7 class schedule, they would have the same 1st period all the way through, with the other 3 classes changing at the mid point. Our high school was on a block schedule for normal instruction (on odd days you go to 1, 3 and 5, even days you go to 2, 4 and 6, with each class lasting about 100 minutes) with the option of taking a zero period (either to take an extra class, or in lieu of 5th or 6th period so you end early those days) that was every day but started earlier and was only 50 minutes. High school still has the zero period option.
Obviously lots of debate on the pros/cons of this system. One of the cons that was brought up for the high school kids was AP classes, as the test is only offered at certain times, so if students had the class for the first half of the semester, but the AP test was not until the end of the second half of the semester, they would be at a severe disadvantage. I'm not sure the result of this discussion yet or if they are evaluating options, but that was one of the more rational arguments/concerns about this system.
So, at least at the beginning of the year, it appears my kids (I have one that will be at each level this coming school year) will have the following schedules:
Elementary School - Online from 8:10 - 1:15
Middle School - Online from 8:15 - 1:30 (for him, he was supposed to have one period as a TA for PE, we need to contact school about how that will work in current environment)
High School - Online 7:55 - 11:35 (he takes zero period, so doesn't have a 5th period, and 6th period is basketball)
For elementary school aged kids, the schedule is essentially log on at 8:10 (I may be off by a few minutes here and there) and essentially they will have instruction until 1:15ish each day. There are planned breaks/lunch in there. It appears it will be a fairly set schedule as far as subject, ie math from 8:30-9:15, English from 9:25-10:30, etc.
The middle school and high school are fairly similar in that they are basically splitting the trimester/semester up so that you are taking half your class load in the first half, the other half in the second half of each trimester/semester. The thought behind this is that it allows the students to only need to focus on a smaller number of classes at a time while doing remote, and it also allows the teachers to focus on a smaller number of classes at a time. Date ranges are a little different for each as the middle schools are on a trimester system while the high school is a semester system. But, in short, from the stat of school in mid-August until early October, students would be taking say Periods 1, 3 and 5. Then from October until end of November they take period 2, 4 and 6. Some other intricacies - for middle school, as they are on a 7 class schedule, they would have the same 1st period all the way through, with the other 3 classes changing at the mid point. Our high school was on a block schedule for normal instruction (on odd days you go to 1, 3 and 5, even days you go to 2, 4 and 6, with each class lasting about 100 minutes) with the option of taking a zero period (either to take an extra class, or in lieu of 5th or 6th period so you end early those days) that was every day but started earlier and was only 50 minutes. High school still has the zero period option.
Obviously lots of debate on the pros/cons of this system. One of the cons that was brought up for the high school kids was AP classes, as the test is only offered at certain times, so if students had the class for the first half of the semester, but the AP test was not until the end of the second half of the semester, they would be at a severe disadvantage. I'm not sure the result of this discussion yet or if they are evaluating options, but that was one of the more rational arguments/concerns about this system.
So, at least at the beginning of the year, it appears my kids (I have one that will be at each level this coming school year) will have the following schedules:
Elementary School - Online from 8:10 - 1:15
Middle School - Online from 8:15 - 1:30 (for him, he was supposed to have one period as a TA for PE, we need to contact school about how that will work in current environment)
High School - Online 7:55 - 11:35 (he takes zero period, so doesn't have a 5th period, and 6th period is basketball)
The Z Machine
Footballguy
My 76 year old mother in law lives 1 block away from us and has been in my house almost every week day of my children's lives. Should I lock her away from my kids if they return to school?
shadyridr
Footballguy
Teach her how to use FaceTime or similar technology, if she doesn't already know.
Can they meet outside the house with masks on?
shadyridr
Footballguy
I like the CDC guidance of cohorting or "pods". Kids can come into school wearing masks and go straight to their class where they stay all day. If a kid in the class gets sick the whole school doesn't have to shut down, just the kids in the class stay home to remote learn.
In theory this would be good, in practicality what school has that amount of real estate and separate rooms to actually accommodate this?
And once you get beyond elementary school and into middle and high school where kids have different classes (not just subjects, but different levels within subjects, i.e. AP classes, Honors classes, remedial), and not all students that are in one are in the other, it quickly breaks down the feasibility.
NutterButter
Footballguy
Unfortunately, they should be social distancing if you want to be safe. This is the new reality until an effective vaccine is produced.
NutterButter
Footballguy
That's why I liked the idea of focusing more of the in person learning at the elementary level where this is a lot more feasible. If you kept middle school and high school virtual, you could use those buildings to increase the social distancing between cohorts.
shadyridr
Footballguy
The Z Machine
Footballguy
She takes care of them after school (under normal times). Plus, we pick up her groceries and meds. My family is her only in person social interaction. I'm sure there are hundreds of thousands of people in similar or worse circumstances. Should all those elderly folks become shut is?
The Z Machine
Footballguy
We have made her part of our household. During the summer, this is easy as all of us can social distance. We can continue that if the kids aren't in school. If the kids are in school, the transmission risk should be low enough to not increase the risk of elderly or immuno-compromised in the household. If that risk is high, she community spread ongoing and increasing, you are asking to choose between putting loved ones at risk or the children's education.
Get the number of cases down to a level where test and trace is feasible. Barring that, we should be sheltering in place.
shadyridr
Footballguy
This is why I think schools should give everyone the choice. That being said, if you want your children around their grandparents, someone has to become a shut in, either your children or their grandparents, or both.
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Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
No, they shouldn't. But we have to get the infection rate down really low first, and even then people (including grandparents and grandkids) will need to take a lot of precautions.
These are the scenarios that people should be prioritizing. Not "party time". The U.S. hasn't done a great job prioritizing upon re-opening.
pinequick
Footballguy
We have a school in our district that under normal operations has A-A block scheduling--that is, same classes every day for 90 minutes. So you complete a semester-long class in a quarter (and have 4 classes per quarter). If you take AP U.S. History in the fall, you complete it in December... but the exam isn't until the first/second week of May. If you take APUSH in the spring semester, there is no way you complete all of the content by the time the exam rolls up in May. So each route has its advantages/disadvantages. But it's not unheard of.
shadyridr
Footballguy
Maybe the teachers can change classrooms still and wear masks and they can create plastic partitions in each class to separate them. I dunno. Just thinking outside the box here.
pinequick
Footballguy
A ton of this stuff really has no applicability to high school, as you mention. Likewise, apparently the "kids don't really spread the disease" guidance breaks down as kids age.
I was thinking more the kids having to bounce to different classes - just because a kid is in say AP Euro History does not mean all of those kids are also in Honors Math and then all in the same elective. Add in the different teacher factor as you noted and it adds an exponential level of difficulty. Scheduling for high schools is difficult enough under normal circumstances.
Exactly - saw that study earlier this week which was a bit of a bummer after the earlier more encouraging studies from Germany and Ireland that seemed to indicate very low levels of spread from children.
Obviously more needs to be learned, but I think in addition to phasing from online to in person, the age groups should be phased based on some of this information. For example, if we work on the assumption that kids 10 and under (so to be safe let's say 3rd grade and younger) are less likely to have severs symptoms and less likely to transmit the disease, the first phase could be to reopen elementary schools to K-3 only. Assuming elementary is K-6 (I know some places start middle school in 6th, just work with me here), and a relatively even distribution of kids per grade level, then in theory we could start by reopening the schools at half capacity with K-3 only, separated across the entire school which allows for smaller class sizes with greater distancing capability in the class room.
There are of course a lot of potential drawbacks to this:
1. Increased staffing needs - if you double the number of classes, you need that many more teachers and/or classroom aides, as you can't simply pull from the older classes as those teachers are still doing online teaching. This creates a staffing and a funding issue.
2. If the online learning is being facilitated by having teachers stream from their classroom (my understanding is our district was planning to do this, would need to confirm), then you don't really have those additional classrooms to use for the expanded number of younger aged classes. Would either need to have the older age group teachers conduct class from home, or come up with some kind of alternative.
I'm sure there are a lot of other factors, both pro and con to a phased approach such as this, but those were the thoughts that first popped into my head.
shadyridr
Footballguy
pinequick
Footballguy
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
I work at a high school with 2300+ students enrolled in SPED, standard track, Advanced Placement, and International Baccalaureate courses. There is absolutely no way that we could "just have teachers move classrooms." It would not work.
shadyridr
Footballguy
Maybe staggered class changes where the whole school doesn't change rooms at the same time but perhaps Pod A, B, C, D change and then 5 min later Pod E, F, G, H, etc
