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Covid and School This Fall (2 Viewers)

The Gator said:
We really hate our kids, don't we?
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From the POV a kid, it would seem that way. Imagine being a teen and looking at the country from their perspective:

1. Pressure to go to college in order to get a good job but college costs are astronomical. 

2. Health care is really expensive and kind of a mess so it's potentially really expensive and a family stress if the kid gets sick, hurt, etc.

3. Gun violence is really bad- lots of school shootings but adults do very little to restrict gun access. 

4. Climate change is will impact them the most and again, the government here really refuse to address it. 

5. We have chosen some downright terrible and incompetent people to lead us. 

6. The big virus came and we refused to get our act together like the rest of the world and now many of the things kids need, enjoy and depend on our still being canceled, the rest of 2020 is in doubt. 

Our decisions sure seem to indicate that we as a country are indifferent at best to the issues facing children. 

 
The Gator said:
So, we are advocating putting kids back into the pressure cauldron of school and peer pressure, which increases the risk of depression/suicide, drug use, and then later this year the flu - all on top of the threat of covid?

We really hate our kids, don't we?
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My kids are chomping at the bit to get back to school.

Apparently conducting your social life on Xbox and Snapchat isn't great.  Depressing even.

 
matuski said:
My kids are chomping at the bit to get back to school.

Apparently conducting your social life on Xbox and Snapchat isn't great.  Depressing even.
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Would your kids prefer an alternative - say just hanging out at a party to conduct their social life?  Or is sitting in a classroom a key aspect of your kids' socialization?

I am not suggesting the socialization is not important - I am questioning whether a school setting is the best place for socialization?  I also know that for many teens, in particular, the depression that sets in stems from that social setting - the struggle to fit in.

One of my kids is very introverted, so she very much preferred a limited social engagement.  She was much happier, inwardly and outwardly, being able to engage occasionally in zoom meetings, but not stuck in a crowded school all day.  It has kind of given her a chance to find her own level of self-confidence that she was struggling to find at school.  

 
The Gator said:
Would your kids prefer an alternative - say just hanging out at a party to conduct their social life?  Or is sitting in a classroom a key aspect of your kids' socialization?

I am not suggesting the socialization is not important - I am questioning whether a school setting is the best place for socialization?  I also know that for many teens, in particular, the depression that sets in stems from that social setting - the struggle to fit in.

One of my kids is very introverted, so she very much preferred a limited social engagement.  She was much happier, inwardly and outwardly, being able to engage occasionally in zoom meetings, but not stuck in a crowded school all day.  It has kind of given her a chance to find her own level of self-confidence that she was struggling to find at school.  
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School is a huge part of their social life.  All their friends there plus sports.  Before school, lunch, after school.

My youngest is UBER introverted, dying to get back to school.  My oldest is super outgoing, dying to get back to school.

 
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matuski said:
School is a huge part of their social life.  All their friends there plus sports.

My youngest is UBER introverted, dying to get back to school.  My oldest is super outgoing, dying to get back to school.
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Right - school is their life - but it does not have to be.

If you were to say - you need to sit and home, and learn from 8 to 1, but from 2 - 5 you can head to the ballfields, or some recreation area and hang out with your friends. 

What do you think your kids would prefer - School from 8-3 or home from 8-1, then free-for-all with your friends from 2-5?

I think school is part of the socialization because we have effectively decided we want someone else to do that for our kids - but it does not need to be the only socialization they get.

Right now kids are not socializing because of safety concerns with covid - not simply because schools are closed.

 
The Gator said:
Right - school is their life - but it does not have to be.

If you were to say - you need to sit and home, and learn from 8 to 1, but from 2 - 5 you can head to the ballfields, or some recreation area and hang out with your friends. 

What do you think your kids would prefer - School from 8-3 or home from 8-1, then free-for-all with your friends from 2-5?

I think school is part of the socialization because we have effectively decided we want someone else to do that for our kids - but it does not need to be the only socialization they get.

Right now kids are not socializing because of safety concerns with covid - not simply because schools are closed.
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I mean if you want to change the system, go for it.

My kids like it the way it is, but I'm sure they'd like any system that allows them to be with other kids.

eta - wait I saw you said home 8-1.  No.  That is not an option.

 
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https://twitter.com/ZekeEmanuel/status/1288566802193231872

I'm sitting here looking at this chart and trying to wrap my head around how this would be implemented if it were followed to the tee. 

I'm in no position to say what should or shouldn't be done. That's not the point. Not trying to judge the plan. The people who created it are experts (medical professionals). I'm not. And I'm sure different plans will be conducted in different places. NY will do differently than FL and FL will do differently than WA. 

But let's for a second say, according to this chart, we don't do anything that's "high risk." 

So that means: No riding on the bus. Parents will have to drive their kid. No lockers or locker rooms. No contact sports. So no gym and many school athletics besides outside non-contact sports. No band, choir, orchestra, or drama. There goes a ton of extracurricular activities. No indoor seating in a cafeteria. There goes socialization that kids experience at lunch. 

Again, I'm not saying this as a critique of the plan or disagreeing with experts. We're in a pandemic. They're experts. I'm not. I'm not qualified to critique their plan. 

But I'm trying to imagine what a school day would look like for a kid under the premise that no "high risk" activities are done. Maybe I'm just slow and it's just hitting me now how much a regular day will change, but, if I showed a kid this plan, would he actually still want to go to school? 

I'm wondering out loud here, would it be upsetting for them to go back to an atmosphere where you wear a mask all day, go to class, do work, have to stay 6 feet away, and then go home with zero extracurricular activities? Maybe just seeing friends and being around friends is enough to offset the rest? Because when I imagine that kind of school day, it sounds rough. Rough on the kids. Rough to implement. Maybe I'm wrong.

This is all hypothetical anyway. Not like it matters. 

 
The Gator said:
So, we are advocating putting kids back into the pressure cauldron of school and peer pressure, which increases the risk of depression/suicide, drug use, and then later this year the flu - all on top of the threat of covid?

We really hate our kids, don't we?
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Mine and everyone else's kids I know are ready to go back and can handle it.  Sorry you cant

 
I dont know if I want my son wearing a mask all day. I was all about in person school but starting to change my mind. 

 
shadyridr said:
You suggested we hate our children because we want them in school so the animosity started with you. 
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I apologize then.  That was tounge-in-cheek and directed to the CDC, not anyone here.

But, I stand by the stated reasons make no sense - since data shows teenage depression and suicides are linked to school

And, I am sure I can find data that shows depression leading to drug/alcohol use as well as suicides.  

And, we know that the spread of things like Flu increases with indoor density.

We all want life to go back to "normal". But, Its important to understand the risks rather than blindly jumping back into the pool.

 
The Gator said:
I apologize then.  That was tounge-in-cheek and directed to the CDC, not anyone here.

But, I stand by the stated reasons make no sense - since data shows teenage depression and suicides are linked to school

And, I am sure I can find data that shows depression leading to drug/alcohol use as well as suicides.  

And, we know that the spread of things like Flu increases with indoor density.

We all want life to go back to "normal". But, Its important to understand the risks rather than blindly jumping back into the pool.
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+1000 on this last part. Too many people just want normal and want it now, to hell with the reality on the ground. Things can't be normal right now. First, do no harm. IMO your responsibility as a parent first and foremost is to protect your children to the best of your ability. Call me bubble boy if you want. I couldnt care less. We are in a pandemic that is killing hundreds of thousands of people and sickening many many more, perhaps with lifelong medical conditions. The kids will have to give up some socialization and ideal learning in the short term. Just seems like more standard fare of lack of long term thinking that is sadly too much of the American psyche. Can't see past tomorrow and focused on the desires of today. I fall into that line of thinking myself way too often. 

 
Our school district is offering virtual school or those that want to, an a/b schedule to start, mandatory masks for all, and delaying a week.

Our twins (kindergarten) will be staying home and doing virtual school.  Our 6th grader most likely will be going to school.  I'm thinking about pulling rank and saying virtual for him as well.

I'm good friends with my neighbor, and he just had two family members die this past week from covid and two more are infected.

 
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matuski said:
My kids are chomping at the bit to get back to school.

Apparently conducting your social life on Xbox and Snapchat isn't great.  Depressing even.
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Mine won't admit it, but they are ready to get back as well (especially my 13 year old).  He is intelligent and would have no issues doing at home schooling even with my wife and I both working.  However, we are at the point right now of a "normal summer" off after school closed and you can tell that the need to get back to school (part of it is the structure of a day) and his friends is starting to set in.  I am probably insensitive, but I really don't understand the panic about sending them back.  They go to school every year during a flu pandemic and there have been times where almost 40% of the class is out sick, but all of a sudden we have to keep them home now?  Go ahead and rip me all you want, but I am still very confused about this whole situation in general.

 
cap'n grunge said:
+1000 on this last part. Too many people just want normal and want it now, to hell with the reality on the ground. Things can't be normal right now. First, do no harm. IMO your responsibility as a parent first and foremost is to protect your children to the best of your ability. Call me bubble boy if you want. I couldnt care less. We are in a pandemic that is killing hundreds of thousands of people and sickening many many more, perhaps with lifelong medical conditions. The kids will have to give up some socialization and ideal learning in the short term. Just seems like more standard fare of lack of long term thinking that is sadly too much of the American psyche. Can't see past tomorrow and focused on the desires of today. I fall into that line of thinking myself way too often. 
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I am totally cool with your logic and don't think less of you for it.  But don't think less of those that don't fall lock step in with you.  There are many that dont.

 
matuski said:
School is a huge part of their social life.  All their friends there plus sports.  Before school, lunch, after school.

My youngest is UBER introverted, dying to get back to school.  My oldest is super outgoing, dying to get back to school.
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Phrasing

 
rascal said:
Not sure why that is funny.  Having to prepare for both, which will require more work than usual, worrying about becoming infected themselves, and at the same pathetic salary would give me pause as well.
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Don't engage the trolls. 

 
So my school is launching online learning, video classes on a schedule, together with attendance starting Monday for two months. 

In October, if the Governor doesn't extend this lock down further, we'll begin the split-personality phase, also known as Hybrid Learning. 

We aren't allowed to use any physical books for the Online Learning, and no shared resources for Hybrid Learning. 

Somehow in their infinite wisdom, the district let all my online digital resource subscriptions lapse, so I have basically no textbooks for four different preps. 

I'm just laughing at this point.

 
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desert rose said:
So my school is launching online learning, video classes on a schedule, together with attendance starting Monday for two months. 

In October, if the Governor doesn't extend this lock down further, we'll begin the split-personality phase, also known as Hybrid Learning. 

We aren't allowed to use any physical books for the Online Learning, and no shared resources for Hybrid Learning. 

Somehow in their infinite wisdom, the district let all my online digital resource subscriptions lapse, so I have basically no textbooks for four different preps. 

I'm just laughing at this point.
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Wait...HTF did that happen?

 
For those that are saying that they want schools open primarily for the socialization aspect, what are you currently doing for your children in regards to socialization?

Are you keeping them isolated physically (I saw Xbox and Snapchat mentioned above) so they still engage in some form?

Do you allow them some actual social time, maybe with a selected group or only selected activities?

Are you giving them free reign to do whatever they want with whatever group they want?

Is going straight into a typical school setting (high number of kids in an enclosed space) really the smartest first step back, or should a more phased approach be taken?

I'm asking because the responses I see not just in this thread but also in discussion both locally (board meetings, etc.) and nationally are about how the kids need to be let out of isolation and need to socialize. I know for my oldest (will be a sophomore in high school) he and the vast majority of his friends have all said that the only reason they would want to go back to school is for social reasons, as they adapted fine to the online learning, but if they were still able to just hang out like they currently are doing (lots of bike rides, beach days, some swimming) and have school either online with daily check-ins, or for some preferably by being given the assignment list so they can work during the week when convenient (as opposed to a set call in to class at a certain time schedule), they would be just as, if not happier than if they were back to "normal" with the masks/social distancing rules. These are all kids that are honors/AP kids and involved in school sports and clubs, so school is and always has been a fairly important piece of their identity.

I guess what I am getting at is, how much of the anxiety the kids have are because they are not being allowed to socialize in smaller controlled settings currently, thus chomping at the bit for anything (the isolated kids), how much is it parents struggling with how they are going to manage the current situation (absolutely a valid concern, which opens up a larger question about what, if any, responsibility employers should have during this time to try and help accommodate parents at this time), how much is it parents that simply want all day babysitting for their kids (sadly I think this is a larger percentage than one would like), and how much is it truly kids that need the school environment (the structure, routine, interaction, escape from an abusive home situation, etc.)?

I am genuinely curious as to what others feel is driving this, as I believe the scenario above for my oldest and most of his friends, at least based on what I am hearing, is not the norm and that most kids are chomping at the bit to get back into school, that's just not the reality I am in (and I largely concede that some of that may be that I am in an area where, for many of the families I know, the majority are in stable homes with parents that either have the flexibility to support remote learning (job flexibility or a stay at home parent) or have the means to support online learning by hiring a tutor/teacher/nanny to watch the kids during the day). There are also a lot of people setting up "learning pods" of 4-6 kids, with either a tutor/teacher or a parent, where they will rotate whose house they are at so a family only needs to be able to manage the at home learning one day a week.

 
OrtonToOlsen said:
Wait...HTF did that happen?
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I think half were because they were looking for cheaper options, with a more "rigorous" curriculum... ? :shrug:   I believe they ordered something, but it hasn't come in yet, we haven't been trained yet, but we're ALREADY starting!

I'm still investigating the other.  I think the new curriculum and instruction director is a finger in the pie bargain shopper.  We're adopting next year.  Who can say?

I would be stressed out, but I just can't anymore. 

I think I'm writing my own textbooks this year.

 
desert rose said:
I think half were because they were looking for cheaper options, with a more "rigorous" curriculum... ? :shrug:   I believe they ordered something, but it hasn't come in yet, we haven't been trained yet, but we're ALREADY starting!

I'm still investigating the other.  I think the new curriculum and instruction director is a finger in the pie bargain shopper.  We're adopting next year.  Who can say?

I would be stressed out, but I just can't anymore. 

I think I'm writing my own textbooks this year.
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Ooooooooooooofffff.

Sorry to hear all of that.

Our curriculum coordinator (district) had exactly 2.5 years of classroom experience before she was elevated.  She’s terrible.  

 
Wife teaches at a small Catholic school. Their plan is First quarter, you can opt for online only but then you are aren't eligible for extracurricular activities (not sure how many of those will still be offered).

She teaches Science and Social Studies to 4th and 5th grade (2 classes per grade). Kids are going to have to come to her for Science (tables in her classroom). Not sure about Social studies. 

About a third of the kids have opted out. Between the opt outs and the already small class size, I think she's looking at average of 14 kids in class at 6 science tables. 

They have pushed the start date back 10 days to be more in line with Duval and hope the downward trend of cases continues. She has already started general classroom prep and official pre planning starts Monday. i dont think kids show up until the 20th.

 
On the flip side,  my youngest son starts his final semester at UF in a few weeks. He only needs 3 courses. Two have announced they have been converted to online. Third is hybrid. His apartment is off campus so he'll be on campus 1 day a week.

He's been in the same apartment with same friends for past couple years. Not really any party animals in the group.

As a Sports Journalism major, he's heavily involved in the newspaper.  Also this is his only shot at covering football so fingers crossed the SEC gets some kind of season in. 

 
snellman said:
Mine won't admit it, but they are ready to get back as well (especially my 13 year old).  He is intelligent and would have no issues doing at home schooling even with my wife and I both working.  However, we are at the point right now of a "normal summer" off after school closed and you can tell that the need to get back to school (part of it is the structure of a day) and his friends is starting to set in.  I am probably insensitive, but I really don't understand the panic about sending them back.  They go to school every year during a flu pandemic and there have been times where almost 40% of the class is out sick, but all of a sudden we have to keep them home now?  Go ahead and rip me all you want, but I am still very confused about this whole situation in general.
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Agreed 100%. Flu is deadlier for children than covid.

 
shadyridr said:
Agreed 100%. Flu is deadlier for children than covid.
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I'm on the get back in the classroom side of this thing, but I don't know that you can say this unequivocally.  Kids haven't socialized in a normal school environment for 5 months.  Some daycares have been open, and we haven't seen major outbreaks, but schools (even with precautions) are a different animal.  Admittedly.  This is going to be one Hell of a science experiment. 

 
acarey50 said:
For those that are saying that they want schools open primarily for the socialization aspect, what are you currently doing for your children in regards to socialization?
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We noticed a substantial improvement with both our 7 and 10 year old's behavior after baseball began. Their school friends don't live in the neighborhood, so outside of our friends who we have met up with that have kids this is the only line interaction they've had with other small humans since the beginning of March. I expect regression if fall sports are cancelled a/o school goes all remote (they currently plan for a full return).

 
I've seen some reports of heart damage for people who had COVID. I assume that's adults who had extreme symptoms. That's not something they are seeing in kids or the mostly asymptomatic? 

 
Grahamburn said:
I'm on the get back in the classroom side of this thing, but I don't know that you can say this unequivocally.  Kids haven't socialized in a normal school environment for 5 months.  Some daycares have been open, and we haven't seen major outbreaks, but schools (even with precautions) are a different animal.  Admittedly.  This is going to be one Hell of a science experiment. 
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If CDC director can say it so can I

 
Still waiting for our district's plan to roll out, deadline is the end of next week.  It's crazy to me that we've collectively wasted so much time trying to figure out these weird hybrid schedules where the kids go to school for half a day three days a week or whatever, when we could have spent all summer figuring out how to provide the best possible virtual learning for everyone.  This hybrid nonsense is the worst of both worlds, kids and staff will be at higher risk, for a ####tier educational experience, and parents still won't be able to go back to work full time if they're only getting half of the free state daycare.  Who's voting for these options?  Either send the kids all the way back to school or don't, these half-measures feel like a nonsensical "compromise."

 
shadyridr said:
If CDC director can say it so can I
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You really love saying it to - I think you've said it about 30 times in the last month.  Early on, it was a good thing to point out - now, you just sound like a parrot who can't move on to more complex parts of the discussion.  Sorry to sound rash - I'm sending my kids back to school so it's definitely a data point I used.  However, continuing to point out something that most people agree to or at least say it's probably true makes it seem like you don't care about a genuine discussion and that you totally ignore the carrier data.

 
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AAABatteries said:
You really love saying it to - I think you've said it about 30 times in the last month.  Early on, it was a good thing to point out - now, you just sound like a parrot who can't move on to more complex parts of the discussion.  Sorry to sound rash - I'm sending my kids back to school so it's definitely a data point I used.  However, continuing to point out something that most people agree to or at least say it's probably true makes it seem like you don't care about a genuine discussion and that you totally ignore the carrier data.
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I don't get it. shader can continually post death numbers over and over and over every day but I point out possible good news a few times (I dunno where you are getting 30 times) and I get called out for it. :shrug:

 
Ilov80s said:
I've seen some reports of heart damage for people who had COVID. I assume that's adults who had extreme symptoms. That's not something they are seeing in kids or the mostly asymptomatic? 
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I'll have to do some digging (have to be offline for the next couple hours so can't google them), but I have read a couple articles recently where kids that were primarily asymptomatic have evidence of lung damage. Too early to determine what the possible long term ramifications, if any, of that are, of if it is something that heals over time.

One article from Florida  -  Hopefully I will have time this afternoon to try find any studies to corroborate the quote

Nearly one-in-three children tested for the new coronavirus in Florida has been positive, and a South Florida health official is concerned the disease could cause lifelong damage even for children with mild illness.

Dr. Alina Alonso, Palm Beach County’s health department director, warned county commissioners Tuesday that much is unknown about the long-term health consequences for children who catch COVID-19.

X-rays have revealed the virus can cause lung damage even in people without severe symptoms, she said.

“They are seeing there is damage to the lungs in these asymptomatic children. ... We don’t know how that is going to manifest a year from now or two years from now,” Alonso said. “Is that child going to have chronic pulmonary problems or not?”
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