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Covid and School This Fall (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ChiefD
- Start date
El Floppo
Footballguy
It's as if the mayor is surprised every week that things the teachers and principals have been saying for months is brand new. So sick of this getting pushed back because they collectively couldn't get their #### together and deal with this earlier. Nothing has changed.El Floppo said:
Ilov80s
Footballguy
My HS set up a virtual boys bathroom so the kids have somewhere to meet to vape together. It’s important to establish a sense of normalcy,
How is everyone holding up?
We are seeing mixed results - one kid is doing well, the other is struggling a little with less structure. (On the plus side, hopefully building better organizational skills she can take with her!)
Lexington is in a weird spot - half of our new cases are from UK students. So, its somewhat isolated, but UK students are definitely out and about within the community, so it can't be ignored.
Like many places, some parents are really agitating to go back to school in person. But, the plan originally drawn up by the school board (and state) requires counties that are in "Red" (highest spread rate) to get to "Yellow" (bypassing "orange") before allowing students back to classrooms. With the data from UK, it makes it unlikely that Lexington will get to Yellow until next summer - when UK lets out. So, the board and Superintendent spent last week talking to various officials trying to determine if we are required to count UK stats, and what that might mean. Long story, short - they are part of the community, so they count.
Yesterday, in an effort to appease the parents itching to send kids back to the classrooms - I think the school board actually made things a little worse. But, we will see. They effectively voted for a very scaled down hybrid model - just for elementary schools. Schools will be allowed to have students in the building, but no more than 15% of the student population at one time, and students cannot be there for more than 2 hours. Students would have a time slot to attend in person twice a week. That just seems like a logistical nightmare for students, teachers, and parents. Parents do have the option to remain 100% remote.
It creates an interesting dilemma for parents who are clamoring for in-person education - it has to be more disruptive to students and parents to have to get to and from school for 2 hours.
We are seeing mixed results - one kid is doing well, the other is struggling a little with less structure. (On the plus side, hopefully building better organizational skills she can take with her!)
Lexington is in a weird spot - half of our new cases are from UK students. So, its somewhat isolated, but UK students are definitely out and about within the community, so it can't be ignored.
Like many places, some parents are really agitating to go back to school in person. But, the plan originally drawn up by the school board (and state) requires counties that are in "Red" (highest spread rate) to get to "Yellow" (bypassing "orange") before allowing students back to classrooms. With the data from UK, it makes it unlikely that Lexington will get to Yellow until next summer - when UK lets out. So, the board and Superintendent spent last week talking to various officials trying to determine if we are required to count UK stats, and what that might mean. Long story, short - they are part of the community, so they count.
Yesterday, in an effort to appease the parents itching to send kids back to the classrooms - I think the school board actually made things a little worse. But, we will see. They effectively voted for a very scaled down hybrid model - just for elementary schools. Schools will be allowed to have students in the building, but no more than 15% of the student population at one time, and students cannot be there for more than 2 hours. Students would have a time slot to attend in person twice a week. That just seems like a logistical nightmare for students, teachers, and parents. Parents do have the option to remain 100% remote.
It creates an interesting dilemma for parents who are clamoring for in-person education - it has to be more disruptive to students and parents to have to get to and from school for 2 hours.
CR69
Footballguy
I still feel like our daughter is doing better with distance learning then she did in school. It's easier for her to go at her own pace so she's several grades ahead in math (we did Khan academy over the summer) and WAY ahead in science and reading. She really misses the socialization part of school but her teacher is doing an amazing job of making the zoom meetings fun and engaging.
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
No issues that I'm aware of at our school so far, about ~1 month in. However, two of the biggest schools in the area were slated to play football this week and yesterday that game was canceled because one had a good number of players in quarantine. Rumor I am hearing is that the team that that team played the prior week had some positives (not sure if they knew it at the time, etc.). So this game was the first casualty of what I'm sure will be many this strange season. IIRC, I think most have had scrimmages only so far (and only started that in the last couple of weeks) and this week was to be "Week 1" of the regular season.
In person hybrid started phasing in this week. Elementary schools this week, middle school is next week, high school the week after that. Right now, after discussion with the kids and also talking with multiple teachers and administrators at each level, only our elementary kid will go back, and that may be shortlived.
For all 3 levels, teachers are expected to teach to both the in person and on a zoom at the same time. They will essentially be at their desk conducting a zoom meeting, the only difference being now there will be some students in class. Everyone in the classroom, including the teacher, will be behind plastic shields and all must wear a mask at all times. SO yes, the teacher is expected to run a class over zoom in a mask. Thus far the vast majority of teachers (at least for my kids and for most of their friends based on discussions with parents) have been doing a very good job with the distance learning and keeping the kids engaged, etc. Quite frankly this approach seems a bit shortsighted and is just something to appease parents looking for child care (a valid concern) and really just hurts the educational capabilities for everyone. As you can tell from my comments, I think there could have been more efficient ways to implement the return to school, but that would have required some slightly out of the box thinking and most likely quite a bit of cooperation across the different schools in the district (something that I am sure is way more complicated than it appears and likely could also be tied to funding based on attendance, some needed negotiations with the various unions and some leeway in the "required minutes of instruction" rules). Both of my older kids (high school and middle school) have opted to not return despite initially saying they would prefer to return, however in person means essentially logging in at a desk as opposed to from home, wearing a mask all day, no socialization at breaks or lunch, etc.
For the elementary school, they say that they are setting it up so that there are times for the teachers to walk around the classroom to help out, and that the kids will not be logging in to their devices at school, but it remains to be seen just how efficient a teacher can be while trying to teach to a class full of 9 year olds while conducting a zoom meeting and trying to keep the kids logged in remotely engaged. This is another case where I believe there were more efficient means to allow some in person return while keeping the educational levels high. As it is, they are allowing up to 27 kids per class to return (the classrooms are not that big), and as mentioned requiring the teachers to teach both in class and online simultaneously. One thought I had is that splitting the kids up into Am and PM cohorts would be more efficient (most grades have more than one class), one teacher conducts in person class in the AM per grade level while the other conducts online class, switch in the PM. Obviously that is very high level, but it allows the teachers, especially for the younger levels, to focus on one medium of instruction (in person or online), and at the same time it also splits the kids up into smaller groups so it is easier to socially distance in class.
I'll now step off my soapbox.....
For all 3 levels, teachers are expected to teach to both the in person and on a zoom at the same time. They will essentially be at their desk conducting a zoom meeting, the only difference being now there will be some students in class. Everyone in the classroom, including the teacher, will be behind plastic shields and all must wear a mask at all times. SO yes, the teacher is expected to run a class over zoom in a mask. Thus far the vast majority of teachers (at least for my kids and for most of their friends based on discussions with parents) have been doing a very good job with the distance learning and keeping the kids engaged, etc. Quite frankly this approach seems a bit shortsighted and is just something to appease parents looking for child care (a valid concern) and really just hurts the educational capabilities for everyone. As you can tell from my comments, I think there could have been more efficient ways to implement the return to school, but that would have required some slightly out of the box thinking and most likely quite a bit of cooperation across the different schools in the district (something that I am sure is way more complicated than it appears and likely could also be tied to funding based on attendance, some needed negotiations with the various unions and some leeway in the "required minutes of instruction" rules). Both of my older kids (high school and middle school) have opted to not return despite initially saying they would prefer to return, however in person means essentially logging in at a desk as opposed to from home, wearing a mask all day, no socialization at breaks or lunch, etc.
For the elementary school, they say that they are setting it up so that there are times for the teachers to walk around the classroom to help out, and that the kids will not be logging in to their devices at school, but it remains to be seen just how efficient a teacher can be while trying to teach to a class full of 9 year olds while conducting a zoom meeting and trying to keep the kids logged in remotely engaged. This is another case where I believe there were more efficient means to allow some in person return while keeping the educational levels high. As it is, they are allowing up to 27 kids per class to return (the classrooms are not that big), and as mentioned requiring the teachers to teach both in class and online simultaneously. One thought I had is that splitting the kids up into Am and PM cohorts would be more efficient (most grades have more than one class), one teacher conducts in person class in the AM per grade level while the other conducts online class, switch in the PM. Obviously that is very high level, but it allows the teachers, especially for the younger levels, to focus on one medium of instruction (in person or online), and at the same time it also splits the kids up into smaller groups so it is easier to socially distance in class.
I'll now step off my soapbox.....
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Ignoratio Elenchi
Footballguy
Our district is 100% remote. In the spring, that meant the teachers created lessons and assignments that the kids would complete on their own schedule. There was a 30-minute zoom every day for the kids to see each other and talk to the teacher, ask questions, do some kind of group lesson/activity, etc. Outside of that the teachers were available for 1-on-1 or small group zooms as needed. I know opinions/experiences varied wildly but it worked pretty well for our family.
In the fall we have now moved to a model where the teachers are live teaching via zoom the whole time. The kids are on the computer from 8:40 - 12:50 every day (with a 15 minute snack break in there somewhere), then 1 hour for lunch, and then back on from 2-3 in the afternoon. Personally I think we're doing this because (a) parents didn't think teachers were working hard enough in the spring and/or (b) parents need someone to effectively virtually babysit their kid most of the day. From my perspective it's so much worse than the spring. It's been a couple weeks and I've already contemplated just pulling them out and homeschooling them until things are back to normal, which is not something I'd ever given a minute of thought to before.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Things are getting better here in the full virtual until January world. Kids, teachers and parents are getting the hang of it. A lot of the kids prefer this to regular school. There are certainly some who are a mess and need to be back but half of my kids are crushing it. There’s a decent chance the virtual HS sticks beyond COVID (much smaller numbers though) and if it does, it will probably be my running it which I would love.
Doug B
Footballguy
My son is struggling so bad with it so far. At this point, it's less the school's issue than it is his and ours. He needs constant monitoring ... he doesn't yet have the executive function (even in 8th grade) to stay on a boring-to-him task (Zoom call + in-class assignments) for 90 minutes.
NutterButter
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
It’s very hit or miss. I have kids doing better than ever because their battle was just hating to leave the comfort of home and deal with the anxiety of all the people, drama, behaviors, etc. Other kids are just too disorganized and like you said lack the executive functioning to monitor it all, stick with the boring parts, etc. We are mostly doing flipped school so most of the teaching is done during the asynchronous periods and the time live in class is for practicing, getting help, teacher feedback and group work. The kids who are smart love it because they can basically just turn their cam off and do the work at their own pace without being tied to a desk in class hearing the teacher explaining things they already understand. The lower kids seem to like having all this extra time in class for personalized help. Also they like that they can pause and rewind the asynchronous lessons when something didn’t make sense.
I am loving the lack of behavior problems. Incidents are way way way down. Now if a kid is bored or frustrated, they just take their own break instead of throwing some kind of tantrum in class or getting into a power struggle with the teacher.
How do your in class assignments work? Our kids are basically only required to be live in school for 3 hours a day: 8:30-9:30, 10:30-11:30 and 12:30-1:30. The rest of the time is set aside for kids to work independently but they don’t have to do it during those periods. They could do the work at midnight if that’s when they want to.
Doug B
Footballguy
In-class assignments, I'm not sure how they work. I know they get them, and they turn them in via Google Classroom/Google Drive. Other software is incorporated, as well (e.g. Nearpod, Khan Academy videos, more) ... IMHO, it's a few things too many. Probably should be streamlined and in common among all classes, all subjects. Just my non-expert opinion, though.
He actually has two math courses (his weakest subject, probably two grade levels behind) -- one is regular 8th grade math, the other is a remedial course meant to reinforce 7th grade math. The math teachers lean hard on Khan Academy for their virtual students ... those videos bore both my son and me to tears. I don't have an appetite to make him sit after school and watch all that, so I teach the concepts to him myself.
...
A shortened school day would probably help the virtual learners, at least some of them. My son is on five 90-minute Zoom calls four days a week (8 am - 4 pm with 30 min lunch). As a middle-aged adult ... I myself zone out of online meetings that last that long. Back when I was in 8th grade, it would have been much worse ... and my son is dealing with the same issues.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Yeah that’s a long time to be on Zoom all day. Rough. I also am annoyed with teachers using so many tools because it makes my job of managing my kids more difficult but I also get the idea of trying to avoid being monotonous. Our teachers use Khan and other things as resources but they are residing almost all of their own lessons so that it feels like class, kids can maybe get to know the teachers, it’s more personalized as they can mention kids names, incorporate student questions and work into lessons, etc. Of course they are able to do this because they aren’t live on Zoom 6 hours a day.
CR69
Footballguy
That's WAY too long to be on zoom. Brutal. Our 7 year old (big age difference of course) only spends three hours a day on zoom but that also includes 30 minutes of breaks and snacks. With the various subjects, activities and the breaks it seems to work great.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
3 hours a day is all we are expecting of our high schoolers. 6 hours is insane, don't know who thought of that.
Doug B
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Doug B
Footballguy
It's to do the entire school day as usual, except transmitted via Zoom to virtual students.
It would be one thing if the 90 minutes were broken up a lot, or something. I don't know ... all I know is it's not working. And I'm not in a position to be able to sit with my son throughout the day and hand-hold him, even though I'm working from home.
I do walk over at the beginning of every period and make sure (a) he's not asleep, and (b) he's in front of the laptop when roll is called. Also a few pop-in checks throughout the day. He's been busted missing roll call and/or being asleep a few times already.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Of course, it's not your fault. At his age has to be trusted and given responsibility. Now is the time for him to struggle and learn some lessons- that is exactly what 8th grade is for. I get their idea of replicating the school day but the school day was probably too long without enough breaks to begin with. Plus this isn't the same an in-person school day, it's just not.
Van Dyman
Footballguy
My 8th grader is handling distance learning like a champ. Shows up at her zoom meetings, does her assignments, gets them submitted on time, gets good grades. Pretty much no issue and she likes it.
My 4th grader is a trainwreck, though. It is a constant battle. Zoom lessons don't sink in. My wife basically ends up having to re-teach half the material, has to argue to get her to do assignments, etc. It's not working. They are both hotheads and together...it's like fire and gasoline. Their relationship just gets worse and worse every day. They're both stressed out and angry. We will switch this daughter to in-person classes starting in the 2nd quarter and hope she does better in that environment, and hope she doesn't bring the virus home to us.
My 4th grader is a trainwreck, though. It is a constant battle. Zoom lessons don't sink in. My wife basically ends up having to re-teach half the material, has to argue to get her to do assignments, etc. It's not working. They are both hotheads and together...it's like fire and gasoline. Their relationship just gets worse and worse every day. They're both stressed out and angry. We will switch this daughter to in-person classes starting in the 2nd quarter and hope she does better in that environment, and hope she doesn't bring the virus home to us.
Ignoratio Elenchi
Footballguy
My 6- and 9-year olds are on zoom for 5 hours a day. It's a trainwreck. I've been saying it forever but the district unfortunately wasted the entire summer figuring out how to get kids back in the building instead of figuring out how to provide the best possible remote learning experience, and so now when they switched at the last moment to all-remote (like I predicted they would all along), we got this ####ty outcome. Crazy to think that for a long time the plan was to have teachers do this while simultaneously teaching almost half the class in-person. It would be even worse. I'm getting pretty close to just pulling the kids out until this is all over, I don't have any experience with formal homeschooling but I'm certain I can do better for them than what they're getting right now.
This is what they are doing for our return to school at all grade levels. Unfortunately I fear that what has fortunately been overall pretty positive result with all remote thus far will now be a shell of what it was because of this hybrid approach.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
In the summer, our teachers made one demand: we will teach a class F2F with proper safety precautions or we will teach a class virtually but we won't do both.
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JaxBill
Footballguy
Wife teaches science and social studies to 4th/5th graders at small local N FL Catholic school. Kids chose in person or virtual for first quarter. Class size is such (18 - 20?) that separating the students in class isn't that hard. Problem is handling group situations like lunch or recess.
Basically my wife is teaching in person and broadcasting over Zoom. Sounds like no big deal but there is a lot of extra work as far as posting work and grades for the both groups. Between the 4 classes (2 homerooms per grade), they had 12 virtual students. So far 9 of the 12 have switched to in person. Some kids gave really struggled with the virtual school, both academically and mentally.
Additionally, for safety reasons they have changed procedures so that the kids stay put and teachers switch classrooms. Sounds great but a lot of effort for the teacher loading/unloading a cart and setting up in somebody else's room.
No outbreaks that I have heard of yet. But the extra work is really wearing down my wife.
Basically my wife is teaching in person and broadcasting over Zoom. Sounds like no big deal but there is a lot of extra work as far as posting work and grades for the both groups. Between the 4 classes (2 homerooms per grade), they had 12 virtual students. So far 9 of the 12 have switched to in person. Some kids gave really struggled with the virtual school, both academically and mentally.
Additionally, for safety reasons they have changed procedures so that the kids stay put and teachers switch classrooms. Sounds great but a lot of effort for the teacher loading/unloading a cart and setting up in somebody else's room.
No outbreaks that I have heard of yet. But the extra work is really wearing down my wife.
gobrowns33
Footballguy
I agree...3 kids in three different schools (1st, 2nd, and 7th)...been over 8 weeks of full in-person school without issues. Wife teaches as well. All public schools in Georgia.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Good to hear. I think things around here have mostly been good. Only a few schools here and there shut back down and it was only for a couple days at a time
need2know
Footballguy
There was an isolated case the first week. But it didn't spread and there was no shutdown
CR69
Footballguy
Yeah it seems like the districts having better results were the ones that prepped for the most likely outcome which is that it would be virtual at least to start.
Feel bad for what some in here are going through
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Around here we had a HS who had 6 positives on the soccer team but they shut the school down for a long weekend and I guess it was ok. One thing I will say, I am not entirely sure the schools are all being totally honest about exposures and who is at risk. I know someone from a school who had a positive (also related to sports) and the school didn't disclose it. Their rationale was "he didn't talk to anyone face to face for 15 minutes so there is no risk, we don't need to inform anyone". I guess that is the new standard and Michigan is pretty strict. There was also a parent who came to an open house to meet all the teachers who called a couple days later to report he had COVID. He said he lied on the forms he had to fill out ahead of the open house because while he had tested positive for COVID a few days earlier, he didn't believe it. However, he said he now had a 2nd positive result so he felt he should inform the school. I believe that was kept from the staff and families because it was deemed he wore a mask while at the school. Once the rumor leaked, a lot of people were upset they didn't at least get a heads up.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I was saying this from the start, but the only way to control the situation is to go for all virtual from the start. That gives everyone a full summer to prep. If things are fine and people can come back, that is an easy transition. Plus if you start with a solid virtual plan and run it for a month to start the year, everything is ready to flip back if things flare up again.Yeah it seems like the districts having better results were the ones that prepped for the most likely outcome which is that it would be virtual at least to start.
Feel bad for what some in here are going through
CR69
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Yep and democratic institutions are messy and there are always things like job security and school board elections that factor in. It's not easy getting a bunch of school board members and administrators all on the same page. Also this is a good lesson in how important it is for everyone to pay attention to school board elections. If you like or don't like how your school handled this, it's the elected school board to credit or blame.
Galileo
Footballguy
B Maverick
Footballguy
Hard to tell with my 6th grader. She is so happy to be back on campus with her friends evern with the hybrid schdule. She says they really haven't started much actual instruction and she is kind of board. But I feel like she is always saying they haven't learned anything. Then she gets excited about a book they are reading and some work they will start on soon.
She's very mellow and go with the flow so she seems fine overall.
She's very mellow and go with the flow so she seems fine overall.
Courtjester
The Town Drunk
I don't envy these kids having to sit there in a zoom session that goes 4 hours. I would just lose it. My 16 year old daughter still loves her remote learning through the on line school. She likes being able to sleep in some days and watch the live lessons later. What is great is she can go hard in one class and finish it now and then tackle another class--so sort of like a block plan. She has days where she watches tv for a few hours in the morning, does a couple hours of lessons, takes a nap, does a few more hours in the afternoon and then maybe an hour in the evening. Two of her classes are AP and one is honors, so these are not cakewalk classes. They have clubs that are starting up now--she is in a leadership/debate type club and a book club. I wish they had this type of schooling when i was growing up---I would have jumped at it.
As I have mentioned before, she suffers from depression/anxiety. There are days where she struggles and we have to motivate her to get things done--so that is why on-line works so well for her vs having to physically go to a school. Thank goodness I am still able to work from home most days, so I am able to be here on those days to support her. The one day I went into work last week, I had prolonged contact with a person who tested positive two days later, so I am just at the point I hate leaving the house.
As I have mentioned before, she suffers from depression/anxiety. There are days where she struggles and we have to motivate her to get things done--so that is why on-line works so well for her vs having to physically go to a school. Thank goodness I am still able to work from home most days, so I am able to be here on those days to support her. The one day I went into work last week, I had prolonged contact with a person who tested positive two days later, so I am just at the point I hate leaving the house.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Week 4 of in person schooling for our kids and week 6 of the college campus being open. Few isolated incidents and the only action that's been needed was the 8th grade volleyball team being quarantined because their coach tested positive. All of the kids were negative though.
The improvement in the kids behavior/mood has been infectious.
The improvement in the kids behavior/mood has been infectious.
desert rose
Footballguy
I've been teaching online for 8 weeks now. The video sessions 5 hours a day is draining. I put in way more time with meetings, planning, grading, parent contacts than before. My stress level is through the roof. I feel like I'm on the clock all day. I try to keep class time light, supportive, upbeat, interesting to try and keep students engaged. I've scaled back my curriculum and reconfigured my grading practices. It's just never enough. I feel like if this is the new norm, I'm pretty much done.
Courtjester
The Town Drunk
You are not alone. The number of good, experienced teachers just hanging it up is scary. My wife is based out of the admin building, but she is out and about in the schools during her days and she says the numbers are significant. Another group that has resigned in large numbers are the school nurses.
culdeus
Footballguy
This is similar to my wife's experiences, as well as her colleagues. It's hell doing the video and in-class stuff while trying to protect the kids.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Your daughter is the exact reason I expect we will try to keep this full time and maybe have a HS of 500 or so kids who only/mostly do virtual
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Anyone have any advice on how a teacher would
1. Broach the conversation with a parent that their kid needs a better environment for online school? I helped a kid today 1 on 1 through Zoom and a baby was crying, dog was barking, mom was yelling, an alarm ringing randomly every few minutes and their computer isn't working very well (I have told them multiple times the school will give them a new computer, just come by the office from 8-3, we have a ton of them charged and ready).
2. Starting a conversation with parents that their kid can not just write "CNN is fake" when their Govt teacher assigns them to watch a video from the site and write what they learned. Or call other kids in class "lib tards", post "Trump 2020" as a comment in the classroom over and over again or insist that rules about being nice are for people who need to toughen up. Politics aside, how does one deal with behaviors that are objectively disruptive to a work environment but are "political" and likely reflect the kind of things being said at home? I am at a loss here.
1. Broach the conversation with a parent that their kid needs a better environment for online school? I helped a kid today 1 on 1 through Zoom and a baby was crying, dog was barking, mom was yelling, an alarm ringing randomly every few minutes and their computer isn't working very well (I have told them multiple times the school will give them a new computer, just come by the office from 8-3, we have a ton of them charged and ready).
2. Starting a conversation with parents that their kid can not just write "CNN is fake" when their Govt teacher assigns them to watch a video from the site and write what they learned. Or call other kids in class "lib tards", post "Trump 2020" as a comment in the classroom over and over again or insist that rules about being nice are for people who need to toughen up. Politics aside, how does one deal with behaviors that are objectively disruptive to a work environment but are "political" and likely reflect the kind of things being said at home? I am at a loss here.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
Regarding #1, that's a tough spot. Have you had the conversation regarding devices with the parents, or was it the kid you mentioned it to? Can you send an email to the entire school to highlight the importance of a productive home environment and some tips for that as well as mentioning the resources available to them regarding the devices. Though I get the impression that these parents may not be the type to read emails. The more direct route would be to set up a call with the parents and discuss the importance of a productive environment for their child, but again, I get the impression that they may not be receptive to that.
For #2, how would you handle this if the disruptive behavior was happening in a classroom setting? Removal from class, parent-teacher conference, suspension? Clear consequences for disruptive behavior need to be established and enforced.
E2A: And agree with @MAC_32, I don't know that I could get paid enough to deal with that. I coach/socialize with a number of school administrators and some of the stories of what you all have to deal with is just nuts.
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