Covid and School This Fall (1 Viewer)

[trader jake]

This was one of the questions I had for my wife before this school year started, I don't think she still has clear guidance.  If a kid is being disruptive in the classroom, they get sent to the principal's office.  What's the virtual equivalent?  You can't kick them out of the zoom, then the parents will lose their #### that you're not supervising their kid.  The teachers got training in the summer on mundane technical stuff like how to share your screen, etc. but little to no training (that I'm aware of) on how to actually manage a virtual classroom.  It's been very disappointing. 

Aside from disruptive behavior, just the act of trying to teach young kids on a video stream for hours at a time is so ineffective.  I've moved my workstation closer to where my kids are so I can hear what's going on with their classes during the day and the amount of time that's wasted on "please turn your camera back on," "please mute your microphone when it's not your turn to speak," "the chat bar is only for asking the teacher questions, not for messaging each other," etc. is mind-boggling.  Plus every time a student is called on, there's a small delay while they remind themselves how to unmute so they can respond - individually negligible but when it happens all day it adds up and makes an already boring experience even worse.  And the constant stream of technical questions like "I don't see the assignment in my classroom," "where's the link for the video," etc.  I listened to my 4th grader's class most of the morning today and they got almost nothing done.  I'm just venting at this point, it's just so frustrating that this was the solution we ended up with. 

To be fair, the types of distractions may be different, but if you had been a fly on the wall in your kid's classroom pre-Covid19, don't you think the number of distractions would be in the same ballpark?  Kids being kids and all that.

FYI, the parent of the kid who was having political issues was super cool when I vaguely told him what was going on. He did his kid son is obsessed with politics and the rest of the family doesn’t really follow it. He said the whole family is annoyed with him over it and he will talk with him about dropping the attitude and partisanship in class.

Now we'd like you to talk to a majority of the country.  Thanks.

 

[Cjw_55106]

High school Jr. started in person class today. Was supposed to be half the kids for two days and the other half for two. Its been cut to one day each and only 2 of daughter's 5 classes have teachers even coming in. The class she is currently in has 3 kids. I suspect she'll stop going at some point. Its a complete waste of time. 

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

To be fair, the types of distractions may be different, but if you had been a fly on the wall in your kid's classroom pre-Covid19, don't you think the number of distractions would be in the same ballpark?  Kids being kids and all that.

From everything I'm hearing, no, this is worse.  Teachers are well-trained on classroom management, they have years of experience managing the types of distractions that happen in a classroom.  They seem to have little control over the kinds of things that go wrong in a virtual environment.  

 

[Ilov80s]

From everything I'm hearing, no, this is worse.  Teachers are well-trained on classroom management, they have years of experience managing the types of distractions that happen in a classroom.  They seem to have little control over the kinds of things that go wrong in a virtual environment.  

It’s different and yes we are trained/experienced on dealing with problems in class but our success rate isn’t always that high. Just like parents know, some kids and some behaviors are really freaking hard to manage. Our behavior issues online are super super low. In F2F when kids get bored frustrated they cause trouble or interrupt or act silly. Online when they are bored or frustrated, they just mute and turn off the cam. While that’s bad for learning, it’s not disruptive to anyone else.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

Online when they are bored or frustrated, they just mute and turn off the cam. While that’s bad for learning, it’s not disruptive to anyone else.

It is here because the teacher then has to stop whatever they're doing to tell the bored kid to turn their camera back on.  They're supposed to leave them on unless instructed otherwise.  

 

[Ilov80s]

It is here because the teacher then has to stop whatever they're doing to tell the bored kid to turn their camera back on.  They're supposed to leave them on unless instructed otherwise.  

Oh we aren’t mandating it. We have been told we can not force kids to turn their cams on.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

Oh we aren’t mandating it. We have been told we can not force kids to turn their cams on.

I’m sure if push came to shove the teachers can’t actually force a kid to turn it on, obviously, though I think the student wouldn’t receive credit for attendance if it was off. Again, I’m specifically talking about elementary age kids here, part of the reason people wanted to move to live remote instruction here (I believe) is they basically wanted someone watching their kids all day. Defeats the purpose of the kid’s allowed to turn off his camera. I overhear reminders to turn them back on at least a dozen times a day. 

 

[Ilov80s]

I’m sure if push came to shove the teachers can’t actually force a kid to turn it on, obviously, though I think the student wouldn’t receive credit for attendance if it was off. Again, I’m specifically talking about elementary age kids here, part of the reason people wanted to move to live remote instruction here (I believe) is they basically wanted someone watching their kids all day. Defeats the purpose of the kid’s allowed to turn off his camera. I overhear reminders to turn them back on at least a dozen times a day. 

Yeah I think elementary is ridiculous virtually 

 

[Gr00vus]

We filled out a brief questionnaire last night asking our preference for returning to in person instruction. We went with (basically) get back to us in January. My feeling is, if there's no vaccine, I'm not sending my kid back to in person school. I'm lucky in that my job will let me work from home (I'm fairly certain), I know that's not an option for everyone.

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

Welp, after 6 weeks of smooth running with in-person schooling, we have our first setback. Had some positives in the high school grades (they didn't indicate how many) so they are going to virtual-only this week. Fall break is this Friday through Wednesday of next week, so they just decided to take this precaution and take advantage of the already scheduled off-time. 

As of right now, football games this week are still a go. There were several basically last-minute cancellations of games around the state Friday. I'd expect that trend to continue all season. 

 

[leftcoastguy7]

Local 6th grade teacher is fuming after today's distance lesson. He forgot to turn off the Allow Users To Annotate function on his Zoom meeting. 

One of his students drew a huge #### on one of his slides.    

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

In the end, he's fine now.  He's adjusted as have we and I think he'll be ok moving forward.  He really can't wait to get back into school, however, and there's no end in sight for that to happen.  Unfortunately, I'm hoping there's a way for him to bring his grade up enough in math to make up for those first few weeks.  That's part of why I reached out to the assistant principal.  I've never had to do that for him for any teachers in any grade before.  He always just did well and got great grades.

Ask for permission to have his maths class taught solo by a tutor.  He can just take the school tests and go at his own pace.  There's no way either I or Mr R would do this for entirely different reasons.  Mr R hated busy work and never did homework assignments.  He read in class because he finished the textbook by about week two.  I was really good at maths and skipped whole grades of it.  I could not sit there and do that.  The only class I ever had a problem with was a twelth grade government class.  The teacher was rude and coudln't teach.  At first, I asked for a transfer to another class.  Then I just told the conselor that I would be in the library during that class and to let me know where my new one was.  I never saw that teacher again.

 

[Courtjester]

I have talked about my daughter being in on-line schooling since last year and now some of you are getting some exposure of what it is like. 

We are what is called "learning  coaches" in the on-line school vernacular. It is tough--especially with a student in AP classes. My wife is the Calc and AP-Bio coach. I have AP US History, Game Design and Honors English. She is on her own in Japanese and College SAT Prep. 

The teachers typically offer 1-2 lessons on-line per week and they are readily available to be emailed. but man, are these subjects challenging. I feel pretty confident in my classes that I help her with, but wow, are the tests hard. In AP History, there are questions on there that say, "Name the MOST something condition that contributed to something." Three of the answers will be completely correct and one will be in left field. It is tough for my girl because a lot of the answers are not in the live lesson or the book. She has a sold A in the class, but still..... 

Her AP Bio test tonight was a disaster. Her mom and I helped her. We used the book. We cheated and used the internet. We are educated people and she still ended up missing 6 of the 20 multiple choice questions. I mean we all feel like a failure tonight and this was after four hours of our work. Luckily they allow test corrections, but wow, that stunk. It dropped her to a low B in the class.   

I can understand why a lot of parents want their kids physically in school because they simply don't have the hours in the day for this because they need to keep a roof over their family's heads. 

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

I have talked about my daughter being in on-line schooling since last year and now some of you are getting some exposure of what it is like. 

We are what is called "learning  coaches" in the on-line school vernacular. It is tough--especially with a student in AP classes. My wife is the Calc and AP-Bio coach. I have AP US History, Game Design and Honors English. She is on her own in Japanese and College SAT Prep. 

The teachers typically offer 1-2 lessons on-line per week and they are readily available to be emailed. but man, are these subjects challenging. I feel pretty confident in my classes that I help her with, but wow, are the tests hard. In AP History, there are questions on there that say, "Name the MOST something condition that contributed to something." Three of the answers will be completely correct and one will be in left field. It is tough for my girl because a lot of the answers are not in the live lesson or the book. She has a sold A in the class, but still..... 

Her AP Bio test tonight was a disaster. Her mom and I helped her. We used the book. We cheated and used the internet. We are educated people and she still ended up missing 6 of the 20 multiple choice questions. I mean we all feel like a failure tonight and this was after four hours of our work. Luckily they allow test corrections, but wow, that stunk. It dropped her to a low B in the class.   

I can understand why a lot of parents want their kids physically in school because they simply don't have the hours in the day for this because they need to keep a roof over their family's heads. 

Can you give an example of a multiple choice question she missed?  Call me curious.

 

[UOFI_316]

Starting on the 22nd our schools are going from all remote to hybrid for those who want it.  My wife jumped at the idea of kicking the kids out of the house for a few days a week (I think she was on the edge of completely snapping).  It sounds like the school is hiring a new set of teachers so one teacher won't have to be teaching in the class and on Zoom at the same time.  Lunch will be in the class, unless it is nice out then they will sit outisde.  Over the summer the school got all new HVAC installed that can run on 80% ourside air, so hopefully they don't have any school related transmissions. My 7th grader said so far only like 4 kids in her math class said they are doing the hybrid.  Will be really easy to keep them spread out if only 4 or 5 are in the class.

 

[Galileo]

2 students in our school have tested positive in the last couple days.  Several being quarantined.  Kids started back in person on Aug 26th with some students electing to attend remotely.   We have had several precautionary quarantines along the way, but this is only the 3rd positive.  One was several weeks ago and nothing much came of it...seems protocols worked as intended in that case as parents became aware of the potential exposure and kept their kid home very early in the process.  This time is a little different.  We just had a long 4 day weekend, and some kid had a party last Thursday.  Both of the current positive cases were at that party.  We'll see if this episode can stay controlled...

 

[Cold Dead Hands]

My son is in ROTC. He is now quarantined because a kid in ROTC was positive. My son then informs me that they don’t social distance because of parade drills and don’t wear masks because it muffled the cadence. Awesome.

 

[Cold Dead Hands]

My son woke up with a low grade fever and sore throat. My wife is going to take him to get a test. Hoping that we can get the results quickly.

 

[Galileo]

2 students in our school have tested positive in the last couple days.  Several being quarantined.  Kids started back in person on Aug 26th with some students electing to attend remotely.   We have had several precautionary quarantines along the way, but this is only the 3rd positive.  One was several weeks ago and nothing much came of it...seems protocols worked as intended in that case as parents became aware of the potential exposure and kept their kid home very early in the process.  This time is a little different.  We just had a long 4 day weekend, and some kid had a party last Thursday.  Both of the current positive cases were at that party.  We'll see if this episode can stay controlled...

4 more positive students today and 63 kids sent home as "close contact" precaution.  I have been told there were several parties this past weekend.  I only knew of one.  During the second half of the day, the superintendent, assistant superintendent, principal and assistant principal were all in the building working feverishly on tracing and pulling kids to send home.  Aside from our little school outbreak,  our county is on the brink of being classified into the highest emergency level.  If that happens, we will be mandated to switch to an all remote model.  I think we are toast.  

 

[Galileo]

2 more positives confirmed over the weekend and 3 more today...11 total now among our students.   On a good note, it is now easy to stay socially distant in the classroom.  Each of my classes had 5 live students.  Others are either quarantined or voluntarily pulling out to attend remotely. It is a very weird environment right now.

 

[culdeus]

Our school sent out their plans for Holiday stuff.  Asking anyone that travels to go remote for two weeks for either holiday.  No word on how they will audit this. 

 

[Nugget]

Local HS football team made a pact not to get tested anymore.  Fan ####### Tastic

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

My son is in ROTC. He is now quarantined because a kid in ROTC was positive. My son then informs me that they don’t social distance because of parade drills and don’t wear masks because it muffled the cadence. Awesome.

Sounds like great training in responsibility.  What hoser is running that?

 

[Cold Dead Hands]

My son tested negative, his fever broke after a few hours and he was fine before we even got him the test. As a side note, the entire County had to switch to remote learning as the positivity rate had increased beyond the State’s threshold for in-school (brick) learning. I don’t have a lot of faith that they will be back in person this month.

 

[culdeus]

Our school sent out their plans for Holiday stuff.  Asking anyone that travels to go remote for two weeks for either holiday.  No word on how they will audit this. 

lol, quickly changed this to international travel only.

 

[trader jake]

My son is in ROTC. He is now quarantined because a kid in ROTC was positive. My son then informs me that they don’t social distance because of parade drills and don’t wear masks because it muffled the cadence. Awesome.

Oof.  That's a recipe for disaster.

lol, quickly changed this to international travel only.

Well, that will keep everyone safe then. 

Sorry to read about these type of situations your kids are being put in.  Real lack of leadership in these examples.

 

[Hov34]

Oof.  That's a recipe for disaster.

Well, that will keep everyone safe then. 

Sorry to read about these type of situations your kids are being put in.  Real lack of leadership in these examples.

The problem is for everyone that thinks like you do there is a person who thinks what they are doing in not necessary and overkill.  How did we become so divided on such a simple issue of staying healthy???

 

[trader jake]

 How did we become so divided on such a simple issue of staying healthy???

Besides the obvious answer?  Standard my side/your side non-sense I'm afraid.

 

[culdeus]

The problem is for everyone that thinks like you do there is a person who thinks what they are doing in not necessary and overkill.  How did we become so divided on such a simple issue of staying healthy???

The role of science in public policy has been subverted.  And humans are really poor at risk assessments when it comes to their own personal risk, preferring at all times to keep even small risks at more than arms length.  

Couple the two together and you get this situation.  

In parallel, those deciding the public policy were wholly untrained to make these types of decisions, not to mention underfunded to apply what seemed to be minimum standards (like spacing).  so here we are.

 

[-fish-]

I am willing to bet that my county's schools will not return to in-person schools above second grade for the entire school year.   The  people who make the decisions around here have established hard thresholds for new cases (up due to increased testing), without regard for positivity rates (steady) and hospitalizations (down).  Unless they change their metrics, we're never leaving Phase 2 of reopening without a vaccine and schools will stay remote.   

 

[skol asylum]

I am willing to bet that my county's schools will not return to in-person schools above second grade for the entire school year.   The  people who make the decisions around here have established hard thresholds for new cases (up due to increased testing), without regard for positivity rates (steady) and hospitalizations (down).  Unless they change their metrics, we're never leaving Phase 2 of reopening without a vaccine and schools will stay remote.   

Good. I still can't wrap my head around parents sending their children into a classroom in a quickly escalating pandemic situation. It boggles the mind. Yes, I have sympathy for those that don't figure they have a choice with work etc. But for those that do, especially those that are working from home? Wow. Yes, I agree that learning for this year is probably pretty universally subpar in an online environment. There are some things way more important than that. 

We're headed towards a possible 100k new cases per day. Add flu season on top of that. What a terrible situation many will face with unavailable hospital beds and treatments. So terrifying and incredibly sad.

 

[-fish-]

Good. I still can't wrap my head around parents sending their children into a classroom in a quickly escalating pandemic situation. It boggles the mind. Yes, I have sympathy for those that don't figure they have a choice with work etc. But for those that do, especially those that are working from home? Wow. Yes, I agree that learning for this year is probably pretty universally subpar in an online environment. There are some things way more important than that. 

We're headed towards a possible 100k new cases per day. Add flu season on top of that. What a terrible situation many will face with unavailable hospital beds and treatments. So terrifying and incredibly sad.

Guess you missed the part where positivity rate is steady and hospitalizations are down.

 

[flapgreen]

Moving right along in middle TN.  School started back beginning of August in-person and no issues. 

 

[skol asylum]

Guess you missed the part where positivity rate is steady and hospitalizations are down.

Not for long. Almost the entire country is heading the wrong way and fast 

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Time to assume crash positions.

 

[AndrewClark]

Schools closing down here for the next 2 weeks for virtual learning. This is kinda nutty (eastern CT) 

 

[gobrowns33]

Moving right along in middle TN.  School started back beginning of August in-person and no issues. 

Good to hear, three kids in full time in-person school since Aug 4th...wife teaches as well...no issues either...this is in middle GA...can't believe all the doom and gloomers act like we are sending our kids to the chopping block each day...

 

[Payne]

Not for long. Almost the entire country is heading the wrong way and fast 

Here we go. Do you have kids? I haven't kept up on the thread to be quite honest. Too much negativity. 

My girls are suffering at home. Both from an educational standpoint and a social standpoint. They need more than just staring at a screen. Sorry you can't understand that. 

 

[UOFI_316]

Our schools started all remote in August and are starting the option of hybrid tomorrow (M-TH and TU-F with W all remote).  Sounds like each in class session will only have 4 or 5 kids in each class so they will be able to keep them spread out.  The Junior High sent out maps as to which door to use based on your first class.  Grade School is having the kids bring in a beach towel in case there is ever a good day and they can go outside for class (suburbs of Chicago, so doubt those get used this year).  My wife is probably looking forward to this the most for her sanity.

Of course, Monday the news went out that our county positive rate went above the threshold.  Within an hour the school district was flooded with calls and sent out an email that they are aware, they are still going with the hybrid plan and that they will be using a two week rolling average or something.  I really hope we aren't back to all remote in two weeks.

 

[Doug B]

Good. I still can't wrap my head around parents sending their children into a classroom in a quickly escalating pandemic situation. It boggles the mind. Yes, I have sympathy for those that don't figure they have a choice with work etc. But for those that do, especially those that are working from home? Wow. Yes, I agree that learning for this year is probably pretty universally subpar in an online environment. There are some things way more important than that. 

Having a parent working from home doesn't mean remote learning for a child is a piece of cake. It's October, and my son is staring having to repeat the grade in the face right now. Abject failure. His, mine, and the school's. A total set-up for him to fail, and I can't intervene and change anything for the better. Even if I quit work and sat beside him every moment of his class day (we work at the same table now as it is to ensure attendance), I'd have to prod him constantly, without let up -- or else do his work for him. He can't or won't change his behavior. There's nothing more for me to take away from him as a punishment, nothing more to give to him as a reward. It's a sinking ship with no life boats.

 

[Doug B]

Moving right along in middle TN.  School started back beginning of August in-person and no issues. 

No schtick or gotcha:

Would you suspect that information about cases in schools (either students or staff) may be concealed? Would local school districts in your Tennessee be forthcoming and open about COVID infections in schools?

I can see having very low case counts in schools -- that's the case here, and the public schools are bending over backwards to report cases.

However, having no cases at all beggars belief. No chance the books are cooked?

 

[skol asylum]

Here we go. Do you have kids? I haven't kept up on the thread to be quite honest. Too much negativity. 

My girls are suffering at home. Both from an educational standpoint and a social standpoint. They need more than just staring at a screen. Sorry you can't understand that. 

Yes, two. Both are doing online. Is it ideal? Absolutely not. But we choose to live in the situation we are dealt, not the one we wish we had. Short term sacrifices are preferable to long term negative health affects or God forbid even worse more immediate outcomes.

 

[Doug B]

Cross-posting from the main COVID thread (parasaurolpohus found the link):

Are The Risks Of Reopening Schools Exaggerated? (NPR, 10/21/2020)

Despite widespread concerns, two new international studies show no consistent relationship between in-person K-12 schooling and the spread of coronavirus. And a third study from the United States shows no elevated risk to childcare workers who stayed on the job.

Combined with anecdotal reports from a number of U.S. states where schools are open, as well as a crowdsourced dashboard of around 2000 U.S. schools, some medical experts are saying it's time to shift the discussion from the risks of opening K-12 schools to the risks of keeping them closed.

"As a pediatrician, I am really seeing the negative impacts of these school closures on children," Dr. Danielle Dooley, a medical director at Children's National Hospital in Washington, D.C., told NPR. She ticked off mental health problems, hunger, obesity due to inactivity, missing routine medical care and the risk of child abuse — on top of the loss of education. "Going to school is really vital for children. They get their meals in school, their physical activity, their health care, their education, of course."

EDIT: I wish we could get hard, unassailable, no-politics, true school case numbers from red-state school districts. Just don't know what to believe or who to trust.

Also from the same article:

While agreeing that emerging data is encouraging, other experts said the United States as a whole has made little progress toward practices that would allow schools to make reopening safer — from rapid and regular testing, to contact tracing to identify the source of outbreaks, to reporting school-associated cases publicly, regularly and consistently.

"We are driving with the headlights off, and we've got kids in the car," said Melinda Buntin, chair of the Department of Health Policy at Vanderbilt School of Medicine, who has argued for reopening schools with precautions.

:(

 

[parasaurolophus]

My sons school went full remote out of nowhere sunday night. Email is cryptic, but it sounds like a large group of teachers got together this past weekend and had contact with a person that tested positive that wasnt a teacher. 

Numbers for kids are unchanged. Staff quarantined metric went up 25 for his school which was over a 100% jump for the district. 

 

[glvsav37]

Cross-posting from the main COVID thread (parasaurolpohus found the link):

EDIT: I wish we could get hard, unassailable, no-politics, true school case numbers from red-state school districts. Just don't know what to believe or who to trust.

Also from the same article:

:(

does not compute?  I live in a blue state and our information Is all over the place as well...and my wife is a teacher so I have 1st hand knowledge of how the schools are operating internally. 

Why are you assuming only red states are manipulating numbers? Trust me, my whole issue with the Covid crisis is how politicized it has been since the beginning, but it has def been both parties playing political games. 

 

[Doug B]

Why are you assuming only red states are manipulating numbers?

Because all the reports I'm seeing in this thread of "Schools open for three months around here! No cases!" are from Tennessee and Georgia. And I know many Texans are big on "No one around here ever had COVID!"

If you tell me that blue-state school district cook the books in the other direction, I can buy it. But explain to me the mechanism -- they just treat sniffles as "gotta go on a ventilator, stat!" or something? How does case exaggeration work?

 

[culdeus]

Because all the reports I'm seeing in this thread of "Schools open for three months around here! No cases!" are from Tennessee and Georgia. And I know many Texans are big on "No one around here ever had COVID!"

If you tell me that blue-state school district cook the books in the other direction, I can buy it. But explain to me the mechanism -- they just treat sniffles as "gotta go on a ventilator, stat!" or something? How does case exaggeration work?

The next level logic leap is something to the effect that they are testing too much.  The word casedemic might be used.  Or something to that effect to reflect that only seriously ill need to be tested and counted and asymptomatic do not.

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

Still chugging along in person here, but not without issues, which they were prepared for.  Anyone shifting to in-person anywhere, regardless of case counts, better have plans in place for when cases arise.

We've had clusters of students in high school grades have cases.  And at least 2 teachers (husband and wife), but thankfully it was over fall break, so avoided a real cluster there, as between the 2 they teach a large portion of the HSers.  They've done contact tracing and contacting to their best ability when cases have arisen, and so far we've only had 3 days of virtual-only school prior to fall break when the case clusters first arose.  I've not heard of any problems in the K-8 grades as of yet. 

Proceeding with caution into the fall months.  Really curious to see how they're going to handle basketball, as my son plays. They've begun practicing, but no word yet on how or when games might go. 

 

[ericttspikes]

Because all the reports I'm seeing in this thread of "Schools open for three months around here! No cases!" are from Tennessee and Georgia. And I know many Texans are big on "No one around here ever had COVID!"

If you tell me that blue-state school district cook the books in the other direction, I can buy it. But explain to me the mechanism -- they just treat sniffles as "gotta go on a ventilator, stat!" or something? How does case exaggeration work?

I live in IL and our school district claimed they couldn't open in September because the local health officials said if a student had something minor like a headache they would be sent home to quarantine. Yet now, with cases exploding, they are preparing for hybrid learning, but I fully expect them to pull the plug for the 3rd time on that as well. It's crazy. It's just random, inconsistent rules being made up at state and local levels that do very little to asses risk IMO. The plan seems to have shifted from flattening the curve to nobody get sick.

 

[AAABatteries]

Local HS football team made a pact not to get tested anymore.  Fan ####### Tastic

What the hell