Crabtree vs. Dez (1 Viewer)

[DoubleG]

How long has it been since a SF WR has put up decent fantasy points? Dez is way ahead of Crabs in that aspect.

Ironically, it's the same WR that up strong fantays points for the Boys most recently (save for Miles Austin last year) - his initials are T. O. - which really means absolutely nothing. Before Moss, who was the last WR in NE to put up decent fantasty points? Before Tony Gonzo, the last TE in KC to have good fantasy numbers? Before Chad Ochocinco, the last Bengal WR? See? This doesn't go anywhere - nor is it indicative of anything moving forward.

 

[Multiple Scores]

Crabtree has next to no upside as an NFL No. 1 WR. He'll never be a threat deep, he'll never command legitimate double teams, and he'll never take over a game. Bryant can do all those things. Will he? Who knows. That he can is why he has more upside. And it's not close. Now, as a PPR fantasy player there's a debate.

Worst post ever.High School Quarterback. 1st year as a WR in his life he wins The Biletnikoff Award with 134/1964/22. 2nd year he wins The Biletnikoff Award. 3rd year he holds out of camp and the first 5 games of the season in the most elite football league in the world and puts up solid numbers and the entire league and fans are impressed and amazed. Yup, you hit the nail on the head, No upside. The comparison for Crabtree coming in the league was Larry Fitzgerald, he's an awful WR with no upside too.

 

[Multiple Scores]

I've spelled out to the OP in other threads the ridiculous difference in "opportunity" between each WR in college as well. I don't have the time to go digging it up again, but the passing yards/attempts for Texas Tech compared to Oklahoma State was mind boggling. For them to put up nearly identical per game averages with that disparity in the offense surrounding them is pretty telling.

Yes, very telling indeed. Actually too telling, here's the nearly "Identical" numbers you speak of.Crabtree

233 receptions

3127 yards

41 TDS

26 games

Bryant

147 receptions

2325 yards

28 TDS

29 games

Averages (Dang near identical, I just can't believe how close!!!)

8.96 catches per game - Crabtree -

5.06 catches per game - Dez -

120.3 yards per game - Crabtree -

80.1 yards per game - Dez -

1.57 TDS per game - Crabtree -

0.97 TDS per game - Dez -

Let's break this down for fantasy purposes.

Non PPR league (1 pt per 10 yard, 6 per TD)

Crabtree 12 + 9.5 = 21 points per game

Dez 8 + 6 = 14 points per game

PPR

Crabtree 9 + 12 + 9.5 = 30.5 points per game

Dez 5 + 8 + 6 = 19 points per game

If you consider in a PPR league Player X = 19 points per game and Player Y = 30.5 points per game meaning X = Y ............ then your math skills need refining.

 

[cobalt_27]

My money is on #88.

You've already anointed him as the the greatest Cowboy receiver in history, this really should come as no surprise.

Stand back (again) cobalt. I said he has the "potential" to become the greatest #88 in Cowboys history.I'm growing very tired of you misconstruing my words. Get it right, or don't post at all.

Thank you.

Maybe it's somewhere in between. Doug Free has the potential to be the greatest OT in Cowboy history. AOA has the potential to become the greatest S in Cowboy history. Heck, even Austin Miles has the potential to become the greatest WR in Cowboy history. Truth is, they all have the potential to become anything; we just have no earthly clue.But, you didn't talk about Free, AOA, or Miles in the same breath as their predecessors. What you actually said (twice) was that you were "already sensing" Dez would become the greatest Cowboy ever to wear #88. This sensation you experienced must have been profound. You cleared room on the mantle piece of Cowboy greats and put Dez Bryant in the space Drew Pearson and Michael Irvin once occupied, looked at him alongside those two legendary figures in Dallas history and proclaimed that you were "already sensing" that he would become one of those guys. No, wait. Better than them.

And this, after reading a few quotes and maybe a handful of articles about his performance in shorts during his rookie camp.

It was cheap hyperbole. So, yeah, forgive me if I don't stand back on this one. You may not have literally anointed him, but you sure did a lot more than innocently suggest "potential."

 

[drew726]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Alex Smith will have a better year than Romo this season.

 

[Donsmith753]

I've spelled out to the OP in other threads the ridiculous difference in "opportunity" between each WR in college as well. I don't have the time to go digging it up again, but the passing yards/attempts for Texas Tech compared to Oklahoma State was mind boggling. For them to put up nearly identical per game averages with that disparity in the offense surrounding them is pretty telling.

Yes, very telling indeed. Actually too telling, here's the nearly "Identical" numbers you speak of.Crabtree

233 receptions

3127 yards

41 TDS

26 games

Bryant

147 receptions

2325 yards

28 TDS

29 games

Averages (Dang near identical, I just can't believe how close!!!)

8.96 catches per game - Crabtree -

5.06 catches per game - Dez -

120.3 yards per game - Crabtree -

80.1 yards per game - Dez -

1.57 TDS per game - Crabtree -

0.97 TDS per game - Dez -

Let's break this down for fantasy purposes.

Non PPR league (1 pt per 10 yard, 6 per TD)

Crabtree 12 + 9.5 = 21 points per game

Dez 8 + 6 = 14 points per game

PPR

Crabtree 9 + 12 + 9.5 = 30.5 points per game

Dez 5 + 8 + 6 = 19 points per game

If you consider in a PPR league Player X = 19 points per game and Player Y = 30.5 points per game meaning X = Y ............ then your math skills need refining.

There was a football (soccer) manager over in this country who had a very famous quote about statistics. I think it fits here."Statistics are just like mini-skirts, they give you good ideas but hide the most important thing."

Ebbe Skovdahl

 

[FUBAR]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Alex Smith will have a better year than Romo this season.

In other words, you're going out on a limb and prediciting Romo gets injured week 1?

 

[39407]

There was a football (soccer) manager over in this country who had a very famous quote about statistics. I think it fits here.

"Statistics are just like mini-skirts, they give you good ideas but hide the most important thing."

Ebbe Skovdahl

He was 4 years in Aberdeen sure, but the dude is Danish. He took it with him from here BRØNDBY!

 

[doowain]

I've spelled out to the OP in other threads the ridiculous difference in "opportunity" between each WR in college as well. I don't have the time to go digging it up again, but the passing yards/attempts for Texas Tech compared to Oklahoma State was mind boggling. For them to put up nearly identical per game averages with that disparity in the offense surrounding them is pretty telling.

Yes, very telling indeed. Actually too telling, here's the nearly "Identical" numbers you speak of.Crabtree

233 receptions

3127 yards

41 TDS

26 games

Bryant

147 receptions

2325 yards

28 TDS

29 games

Averages (Dang near identical, I just can't believe how close!!!)

8.96 catches per game - Crabtree -

5.06 catches per game - Dez -

120.3 yards per game - Crabtree -

80.1 yards per game - Dez -

1.57 TDS per game - Crabtree -

0.97 TDS per game - Dez -

Let's break this down for fantasy purposes.

Non PPR league (1 pt per 10 yard, 6 per TD)

Crabtree 12 + 9.5 = 21 points per game

Dez 8 + 6 = 14 points per game

PPR

Crabtree 9 + 12 + 9.5 = 30.5 points per game

Dez 5 + 8 + 6 = 19 points per game

If you consider in a PPR league Player X = 19 points per game and Player Y = 30.5 points per game meaning X = Y ............ then your math skills need refining.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&p=11863138HTH

ETA: And I'm not as lazy today.....so here's a post I made to you a couple months back.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&p=11748569

 

[jdswan922]

I've spelled out to the OP in other threads the ridiculous difference in "opportunity" between each WR in college as well. I don't have the time to go digging it up again, but the passing yards/attempts for Texas Tech compared to Oklahoma State was mind boggling. For them to put up nearly identical per game averages with that disparity in the offense surrounding them is pretty telling.

Yes, very telling indeed. Actually too telling, here's the nearly "Identical" numbers you speak of.Crabtree

233 receptions

3127 yards

41 TDS

26 games

Bryant

147 receptions

2325 yards

28 TDS

29 games

Averages (Dang near identical, I just can't believe how close!!!)

8.96 catches per game - Crabtree -

5.06 catches per game - Dez -

120.3 yards per game - Crabtree -

80.1 yards per game - Dez -

1.57 TDS per game - Crabtree -

0.97 TDS per game - Dez -

Let's break this down for fantasy purposes.

Non PPR league (1 pt per 10 yard, 6 per TD)

Crabtree 12 + 9.5 = 21 points per game

Dez 8 + 6 = 14 points per game

PPR

Crabtree 9 + 12 + 9.5 = 30.5 points per game

Dez 5 + 8 + 6 = 19 points per game

If you consider in a PPR league Player X = 19 points per game and Player Y = 30.5 points per game meaning X = Y ............ then your math skills need refining.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&p=11863138HTH

ETA: And I'm not as lazy today.....so here's a post I made to you a couple months back.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&p=11748569

Citing yourself always makes for a convincing argument.

 

[doowain]

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&p=11863138

HTH

ETA: And I'm not as lazy today.....so here's a post I made to you a couple months back.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&p=11748569

Citing yourself always makes for a convincing argument.

It's an argument that has already been made 10 different times this offseason. Should I have copied and pasted instead?

 

[Multiple Scores]

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&p=11863138

HTH

ETA: And I'm not as lazy today.....so here's a post I made to you a couple months back.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&p=11748569

Citing yourself always makes for a convincing argument.

It's an argument that has already been made 10 different times this offseason. Should I have copied and pasted instead?

It's a strange argument to say the least. If X has a $100 bill

and

If Y has a $100 bill

You are arguing that X does not have a $100 bill, even though Ben Franklin is there and the bank says it's a $100 bill, you claim it is a $37 dollar bill

Then you are arguing the Y does not have a $100 bill, even though Ben Franklin is there and the bank says it's a $100 bill, you claim it is a $185 dollar bill

I've read yours and SSOGs posts, more than once to understand, it's understandable but totally false logic and voodoo. Reading the logic behind those posts makes me lose IQ points every time so I can't partake in any nonsense and dribble.

 

[doowain]

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&p=11863138

HTH

ETA: And I'm not as lazy today.....so here's a post I made to you a couple months back.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&p=11748569

Citing yourself always makes for a convincing argument.

It's an argument that has already been made 10 different times this offseason. Should I have copied and pasted instead?

It's a strange argument to say the least. If X has a $100 bill

and

If Y has a $100 bill

You are arguing that X does not have a $100 bill, even though Ben Franklin is there and the bank says it's a $100 bill, you claim it is a $37 dollar bill

Then you are arguing the Y does not have a $100 bill, even though Ben Franklin is there and the bank says it's a $100 bill, you claim it is a $185 dollar bill

I've read yours and SSOGs posts, more than once to understand, it's understandable but totally false logic and voodoo. Reading the logic behind those posts makes me lose IQ points every time so I can't partake in any nonsense and dribble.

You hate Dez.You love Crabtree (for obvious homerism reasons).

You are always right and everyone else is wrong. You are a horse with blinders on.....I get it.

You can never avoid making your "points" by being unexcellent.

I will now start the 2 week countdown for your next "I hate Dez and I worship Crabtree" thread.

 

[doowain]

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&p=11863138

HTH

ETA: And I'm not as lazy today.....so here's a post I made to you a couple months back.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&p=11748569

Citing yourself always makes for a convincing argument.

It's an argument that has already been made 10 different times this offseason. Should I have copied and pasted instead?

It's a strange argument to say the least. If X has a $100 bill

and

If Y has a $100 bill

You are arguing that X does not have a $100 bill, even though Ben Franklin is there and the bank says it's a $100 bill, you claim it is a $37 dollar bill

Then you are arguing the Y does not have a $100 bill, even though Ben Franklin is there and the bank says it's a $100 bill, you claim it is a $185 dollar bill

I've read yours and SSOGs posts, more than once to understand, it's understandable but totally false logic and voodoo. Reading the logic behind those posts makes me lose IQ points every time so I can't partake in any nonsense and dribble.

You really don't get the idea of opportunity? Really? Let's take a look at 2008, which was Dez's only year as the focal point of the offense. This was their only heads up season as their team's go to WR.Michael Crabtree (2008)

97/1165/19

Dez Bryant (2008)

87/1480/19

So, Dez puts up 315 more yards on 10 less catches (hello explosiveness). And he did this all when his team threw the ball 326 times (vs. 662 for Texas Tech). Texas Tech's offense spread out 4-5 wide nearly every play to where double teams just weren't possible every play. Dez consistently saw double teams EVERY play. He was their entire offense. Not to mention the TDs and return yardage he gave them on punts. And as someone pointed out earlier, the Biletnikoff award in 2008 should've gone to Dez. It was given to Crabtree on the strength of one catch (albeit a spectacular catch).

How can someone look at those FACTS and not come away more impressed with Dez's performance than Crabtree? This is not a knock on Crabtree (who I feel is an excellent WR). I just feel Dez is superior to him and I'm more wowed by his stats than Crabtrees. If Dez is on TT in 2007, you don't think he can put up the numbers Crabtree did if he put up only 500 less yards and 3 less TDs on half the opportunity?

It's apparent to me that, for whatever reason, you'll never see my POV here. If you don't agree, fine. But to completely overlook this and call it unintelligent dribble is just plain silly.

 

[Multiple Scores]

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&p=11863138

HTH

ETA: And I'm not as lazy today.....so here's a post I made to you a couple months back.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&p=11748569

Citing yourself always makes for a convincing argument.

It's an argument that has already been made 10 different times this offseason. Should I have copied and pasted instead?

It's a strange argument to say the least. If X has a $100 bill

and

If Y has a $100 bill

You are arguing that X does not have a $100 bill, even though Ben Franklin is there and the bank says it's a $100 bill, you claim it is a $37 dollar bill

Then you are arguing the Y does not have a $100 bill, even though Ben Franklin is there and the bank says it's a $100 bill, you claim it is a $185 dollar bill

I've read yours and SSOGs posts, more than once to understand, it's understandable but totally false logic and voodoo. Reading the logic behind those posts makes me lose IQ points every time so I can't partake in any nonsense and dribble.

You hate Dez.You love Crabtree (for obvious homerism reasons).

You are always right and everyone else is wrong. You are a horse with blinders on.....I get it.

You can never avoid making your "points" by being unexcellent.

I will now start the 2 week countdown for your next "I hate Dez and I worship Crabtree" thread.

Sorry for being unexcellent towards you, seriously. We were in a league together last season (Scoregasms) and saw eye to eye on everything in the league, I liked you as a leaguemate. I thought you knew that, I wouldn't have even responded to such dribble if I didn't like you. lol, that was a joke. Reset your timer, cause there is only a few days left on the countdown, Thursday will be the new topic, if you have any requests for content I am open, I am leaning towards work ethic right and how mothers/fathers help to mold that work ethic right now.

 

[JohnnyU]

Sorry for being unexcellent towards you, seriously. We were in a league together last season (Scoregasms) and saw eye to eye on everything in the league, I liked you as a leaguemate. I thought you knew that, I wouldn't have even responded to such dribble if I didn't like you. lol, that was a joke. Reset your timer, cause there is only a few days left on the countdown, Thursday will be the new topic, if you have any requests for content I am open, I am leaning towards work ethic right and how mothers/fathers help to mold that work ethic right now.

You two get a damn room. By the way, I finally own Crabtree in a league I still believe Dez Bryant is a better talent. Whether that translates on the field we will see.

 

[JPeso]

Sorry for being unexcellent towards you, seriously. We were in a league together last season (Scoregasms) and saw eye to eye on everything in the league, I liked you as a leaguemate. I thought you knew that, I wouldn't have even responded to such dribble if I didn't like you. lol, that was a joke. Reset your timer, cause there is only a few days left on the countdown, Thursday will be the new topic, if you have any requests for content I am open, I am leaning towards work ethic right and how mothers/fathers help to mold that work ethic right now.

You two get a damn room. By the way, I finally own Crabtree in a league I still believe Dez Bryant is a better talent. Whether that translates on the field we will see.

You just bought? I assume if so you paid a steep price, but I thought you hated Crabtree.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

This has been bugging me everytime I see someone say Dez has the higher "Upside" over Crabtree, the comment itself just doesn't pass the sniff test.Stats:Michael Crabtree2007 - 134/1962/22 Freshman2008 - 97/1165/19 Sophmore2009 - 48/625/2 49ers rookie year (11 games)Dez Bryant2007 - 43/622/6 Freshman2008 - 87/1480/19 Sophmore2009 - 17/323/4 (3 games - suspended)2007 Crabtree - Biletnikoff Award2008 Crabtree - Biletnikoff AwardI am not sure where the common phrase that Dez Bryant has more upside comes from, why it exists is beyond me. 2007 was the first year that Michael Crabtree ever played Wide Receiver, he was a Quarterback. High School - Crabtree attended David W. Carter High School in Dallas and played quarterback for the football team. As a senior, he passed for 870 yards and eleven touchdowns on 45 completions out of 100 attempts. He also ran for 646 yards and nine touchdowns on 100 carries. I don't see how this guy doesn't have unlimited "Upside". Crabtree won College WR of the year both of his first two seasons playing the position, misses all of training camp and holds out the first 5 games of the year and comes in and catches everything thrown his way. We can talk body types and style of play, Bryant is the more physical WR, that is unquestioned by me. Does this body type/style automatically make Bryant the better upside player, I really don't think so. If people are going to compare Dez Bryant to ubers studs such as Terrell Owens and Calvin Johnson then Crabtree should be compared to Jerry Rice and Larry Fitzgerald. I don't believe either should be compared to any of these players, let them prove themselves before sending either to the HOF. I keep hearing how Dez is catching everything in OTA's, Crabtree catches everything in NFL games, the guy doesn't drop any passes. I think Crabtree is still learning how to play the position of WR and is only going to get better every year.

These topics of who has more upside or who has more talent is such a time sync. You can't prove it, it's an opinion at this point. If you feel Crabtree will have the better career for "x" reasons, then tell me. Saying it's because a guy won a WR award in college isn't going to cut it though, that's about as bad as someone telling me someone will be a good QB in the pros because they won the Heisman.To me, what Crabtree has is just about 1 year in the pros. I look upon Crabtree's 1st year as a successful one because he came in late and still didn't get lost in the shuffle of being a first year WR, the guy game in midseason and made an imact. Not an easy thing to do....so with that bit of information that we have on these two guys at the pro level, I'd give a slight bump to Crabtree. Him winning any awards in college plays no part in my decision making not does the lack of award Dez may have won play a part.My gut tells me both of these guys will be good players.

 

[JohnnyU]

Sorry for being unexcellent towards you, seriously. We were in a league together last season (Scoregasms) and saw eye to eye on everything in the league, I liked you as a leaguemate. I thought you knew that, I wouldn't have even responded to such dribble if I didn't like you. :( lol, that was a joke. Reset your timer, cause there is only a few days left on the countdown, Thursday will be the new topic, if you have any requests for content I am open, I am leaning towards work ethic right and how mothers/fathers help to mold that work ethic right now.

You two get a damn room. By the way, I finally own Crabtree in a league I still believe Dez Bryant is a better talent. Whether that translates on the field we will see.

You just bought? I assume if so you paid a steep price, but I thought you hated Crabtree.

The only league I own Crabtree I obtained him by giving up Larry Fitzgerald and the 2.02 for Crabtree and the 1.02 and 2.08.

 

[SSOG]

I've read yours and SSOGs posts, more than once to understand, it's understandable but totally false logic and voodoo. Reading the logic behind those posts makes me lose IQ points every time so I can't partake in any nonsense and dribble.

Reading per-game totals makes you lose IQ points? You better not click this link, then, or else you might end up in a vegetative state.I've never heard anyone call per-game stats "voodoo" before. That's an interesting one.

 

[beto]

How long has it been since a SF WR has put up decent fantasy points? Dez is way ahead of Crabs in that aspect.

Ironically, it's the same WR that up strong fantays points for the Boys most recently (save for Miles Austin last year) - his initials are T. O. - which really means absolutely nothing. Before Moss, who was the last WR in NE to put up decent fantasty points? Before Tony Gonzo, the last TE in KC to have good fantasy numbers? Before Chad Ochocinco, the last Bengal WR? See? This doesn't go anywhere - nor is it indicative of anything moving forward.

I disagree with you. I believe the offense a player is in can have a greater impact on fantasy stats compared to the perceived talent of an individual player, at least in the near term. Your 85 example is a good one, iirc he had Kitna throwing to him but Crabtree and Dez are in a different category than 85 when he came into the league.