Crabtree will be a bust (1 Viewer)

[One]

Bust or not, SF's west coast offense and disciplinarian HC should give him a great chance to succeed.

 

[Area51Inhabitant]

There's an awful lot of smoke for there not to be some fire with regard to Crabtree's attitude and overall approach. The good thing about him landing in SF from a Fantasy perspective is that it wont take long for Singletary to weigh in publicly on Crabtree if his approach to the game isnt professional.

 

[corpcow]

He eats Pizza Hut!?!?!

I was on the fence, but this is the tipping point for me.

Poppa John's would make him a pro-bowler.

Maybe it is because I live in NJ, but no respecting person eats Pizza Hut or any chain pizza around here. You would think he would be able to get some real pizza.On to the important topic and that is whether or not Crabtree will be any good. The points about beating the press and not being sharp out of his cuts will need to be changed at the pro level, but his regiment while in a cast doesn't mean much to me. If that was his same regiment when healthy, then I would have a concern.

Sorry for that.

 

[Raider Nation]

My ...

To suggest he's not a very talented player is misguided. I've seen him beat jams at the line in college, and easily at that. He's a very strong receiver. If I'm a 49ers fan, it's not his talent that worries me. It's exactly the other stuff people have been talking about.

I pointed out in another thread that I heard him interviewed on Sirius NFL Radio before the draft, and he came off very poorly. I won't go into all the details again, but he didn't answer the "football questions" impressively to say the least, and he gave off a total "I'm the best and that's that" vibe.

Then on the "Path to the Draft" special on NFLN which others have mentioned, it was even worse. They profiled Crabtree, Stafford and Cushing, and followed them around during the week leading up to the draft. Stafford and Cushing were football-heads. They eat, drink, sleep and breathe football. It was nice to see. Crabtree, on the other hand, barely mentioned football. He was all blinged out, shopping for a Mercedes, playing video games and acting like a Pimp Daddy. It truly seemed like money was the ONLY thing on his mind.

He seems like a nice enough kid and by all accounts he's had a hard life, so I wish him the best. But I don't like the early signs I see.

 

[TheFanatic]

This thread is . You know it's bad when The Fanatic agrees with you.

It's not officially a thread till SPM pops in and spouts off without reading the posts. Here let me help you. Did you see this one?

Honestly, outside of that fluff comment, the write up was well written and well thought out....And this will be followed with a lot of conjecture and anecdotal evidence from the Crabtree fans and it will all be wasted...

Where did I agree with the OP?Or how about this one:

I really don't have a dog in this fight. I'm not looking to draft the guy but if he were to fall to me I would consider it. I have no real opinion either way on the guy. But the OP has some sound reasoning and then all the hacks come in here with fluff to refute it....

Here I even specifically said that I have no opinion either way. Listen, if you want to get into a debate about football knowledge, please by all means pick a topic and we can debate, otherwise leave the lame insults in the FFA. Or maybe show me some tangible proof of your fantasy football acumen. Have you seen the topics floating around the shark pool about the Hyper Active Leagues? I was an original member of HA1. After 3 years, up against the best competition from this board (and just about anywhere for that matter) I have the best regular season record. Here's the link. My team is the Knights. Feel free to check it out.

Now maybe you could be quiet and let the adults talk unless of course you have something that remotely adds to this discussions other than lame jabs....

 

[TheFanatic]

I pointed out in another thread that I heard him interviewed on Sirius NFL Radio before the draft, and he came off very poorly.

The rumor around St. Louis is that he was marked off their draft board after they had him in based on his interview and time spent with the coaches. That being said, there are a lot of knuckleheads that tear it up at WR (TO, Moss, Ocho, etc). I don't see that as a deal breaker but it seems some teams felt that way.

 

[Sinrman]

He has all the makings of a good WR, but I think being in SF right now will hold him down. Until the QB situation is figured out and they get some consistent production out of that position, I think he will be held back. That, and not having much in regards to other threats on offense to keep the double teams off of him (other than Frank Gore).

 

[bcr8f]

My ...

To suggest he's not a very talented player is misguided. I've seen him beat jams at the line in college, and easily at that. He's a very strong receiver. If I'm a 49ers fan, it's not his talent that worries me. It's exactly the other stuff people have been talking about.

I pointed out in another thread that I heard him interviewed on Sirius NFL Radio before the draft, and he came off very poorly. I won't go into all the details again, but he didn't answer the "football questions" impressively to say the least, and he gave off a total "I'm the best and that's that" vibe.

Then on the "Path to the Draft" special on NFLN which others have mentioned, it was even worse. They profiled Crabtree, Stafford and Cushing, and followed them around during the week leading up to the draft. Stafford and Cushing were football-heads. They eat, drink, sleep and breathe football. It was nice to see. Crabtree, on the other hand, barely mentioned football. He was all blinged out, shopping for a Mercedes, playing video games and acting like a Pimp Daddy. It truly seemed like money was the ONLY thing on his mind.

He seems like a nice enough kid and by all accounts he's had a hard life, so I wish him the best. But I don't like the early signs I see.

Mr Crabtree meet Mike Singletary. Vernon Davis will talk to him about being a Diva.

 

[Max Power]

I pointed out in another thread that I heard him interviewed on Sirius NFL Radio before the draft, and he came off very poorly.

The rumor around St. Louis is that he was marked off their draft board after they had him in based on his interview and time spent with the coaches. That being said, there are a lot of knuckleheads that tear it up at WR (TO, Moss, Ocho, etc). I don't see that as a deal breaker but it seems some teams felt that way.

Thats probably why it was a rumor. STL would have been stupid to draft a WR at #2. That team has holes everywhere, and doesn't need to be rebuilt from outside in

 

[TheFanatic]

I pointed out in another thread that I heard him interviewed on Sirius NFL Radio before the draft, and he came off very poorly.

The rumor around St. Louis is that he was marked off their draft board after they had him in based on his interview and time spent with the coaches. That being said, there are a lot of knuckleheads that tear it up at WR (TO, Moss, Ocho, etc). I don't see that as a deal breaker but it seems some teams felt that way.

Thats probably why it was a rumor. STL would have been stupid to draft a WR at #2. That team has holes everywhere, and doesn't need to be rebuilt from outside in

St. Louis has a real problem at WR. The youngest and maybe the worst WR corps in the league. Drafting Crabtree would be a legit pick if he turned into the next Fitz. The Rams are not on a 1 year rebuilding cycle. If they felt he was a can't miss guy that would go to multiple pro bowls they would;ve been justified taking him and filled the other holes in the next year or two...

 

[Max Power]

To the OP, nice post, I'm never a big fan of the "look what the school has produced in the past" idea.

I mean I can say look at Thomas Brown's 07 stats compared to Moreno's 08

Brown

148 car

779 yrd

5.3 avg

10 TD

10 rec

84 yrd

8.4 avg

2 td

Moreno

250 car

1400 yrds

5.6 avg

16 TD

33 rec

392 yrds

11.9 avg

2 TD

Similar per rush average and one could argue that the 08 Bulldogs as a team were much better than 07. Now Brown was a 6th rd pick and was Moreno 12th overall. Are they both products of the system? No. Moreno has more talent by far, but you see where I'm going with this.

 

[bcr8f]

I pointed out in another thread that I heard him interviewed on Sirius NFL Radio before the draft, and he came off very poorly.

The rumor around St. Louis is that he was marked off their draft board after they had him in based on his interview and time spent with the coaches. That being said, there are a lot of knuckleheads that tear it up at WR (TO, Moss, Ocho, etc). I don't see that as a deal breaker but it seems some teams felt that way.

Thats probably why it was a rumor. STL would have been stupid to draft a WR at #2. That team has holes everywhere, and doesn't need to be rebuilt from outside in

St. Louis has a real problem at WR. The youngest and maybe the worst WR corps in the league. Drafting Crabtree would be a legit pick if he turned into the next Fitz. The Rams are not on a 1 year rebuilding cycle. If they felt he was a can't miss guy that would go to multiple pro bowls they would;ve been justified taking him and filled the other holes in the next year or two...

But there are more WR's in the draft than legit offensive tackles. A good one will last 10 years VS a few for receivers. Crabtree isn't Fitz or Calvin but may be close.

 

[No. 16]

I pointed out in another thread that I heard him interviewed on Sirius NFL Radio before the draft, and he came off very poorly.

The rumor around St. Louis is that he was marked off their draft board after they had him in based on his interview and time spent with the coaches. That being said, there are a lot of knuckleheads that tear it up at WR (TO, Moss, Ocho, etc). I don't see that as a deal breaker but it seems some teams felt that way.

TO is a knucklehead but he works harder than any WR since Jerry Rice IMO.Moss is a knucklehead but he is the most physically gifted WR EVER.

OchoCinco is a knucklehead but he is superior physical attributes compared to Crabtree.

Sure knuckleheads have done well at WR but you're talking about one who has a tremendous work ethic and two players who are physically superior to Crabtree. Crabtree doesn't have the physical tools to be able to coast like Randy or Chad... he'll have to work hard to be a good WR and it seems like his work ethic/love for football is questionable.

 

[ratbast]

NCAAs considered him the best WR in college football the last 2 years. Every draft guru had him as the #1 WR in this draft.

The question really needs to be asked...what more do you want? I can see you saying he is no MTron, I can see you saying his attitude doesn't rank compared to Fitz but a "bust"?

He will start right away on a team that may be on upward track. The QB position in SF is the only thing that makes me nervous. If he landed in Indy and Wayne was traded we would all be crazy for him.

Maybe he is overrated for this year but the sky is the limit for the future if the 9ers cooperate.

 

[Max Power]

I pointed out in another thread that I heard him interviewed on Sirius NFL Radio before the draft, and he came off very poorly.

The rumor around St. Louis is that he was marked off their draft board after they had him in based on his interview and time spent with the coaches. That being said, there are a lot of knuckleheads that tear it up at WR (TO, Moss, Ocho, etc). I don't see that as a deal breaker but it seems some teams felt that way.

Thats probably why it was a rumor. STL would have been stupid to draft a WR at #2. That team has holes everywhere, and doesn't need to be rebuilt from outside in

St. Louis has a real problem at WR. The youngest and maybe the worst WR corps in the league. Drafting Crabtree would be a legit pick if he turned into the next Fitz. The Rams are not on a 1 year rebuilding cycle. If they felt he was a can't miss guy that would go to multiple pro bowls they would;ve been justified taking him and filled the other holes in the next year or two...

And they have a real problem at OL, and most levels of the defense. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but has any team that has taken a WR in the top 5-10 ever been a consistantly winning team around that player?You can make a case for Fitz, but lets see if Arizona can remain competative over the next few years.

Andre Johnson has the potential as well, but its 5 years later and I can't recall if Houston has even made the playoffs since that pick.

STL can claim all they want that they passed on Crab cause of his bad attitude, but the facts are in. Scouts say he isn't on the same level as Fitz, Andre or Calvin and the team had more pressing needs. Again, STL would have been foolish to take Crab at 2 regardless of attitude.

 

[TheFanatic]

I pointed out in another thread that I heard him interviewed on Sirius NFL Radio before the draft, and he came off very poorly.

The rumor around St. Louis is that he was marked off their draft board after they had him in based on his interview and time spent with the coaches. That being said, there are a lot of knuckleheads that tear it up at WR (TO, Moss, Ocho, etc). I don't see that as a deal breaker but it seems some teams felt that way.

TO is a knucklehead but he works harder than any WR since Jerry Rice IMO.Moss is a knucklehead but he is the most physically gifted WR EVER.

OchoCinco is a knucklehead but he is superior physical attributes compared to Crabtree.

Sure knuckleheads have done well at WR but you're talking about one who has a tremendous work ethic and two players who are physically superior to Crabtree. Crabtree doesn't have the physical tools to be able to coast like Randy or Chad... he'll have to work hard to be a good WR and it seems like his work ethic/love for football is questionable.

I don't argue any of those points at all. Well, those damn long arms are certainly a physical gift that I did not know about prior to this thread but I pretty much agree with everything you said. I'm just saying that they brought him in for a visit here and the FO was very put off by the interview. I was just saying that there are plenty of guys that give really bad interviews now that still do pretty well....

 

[5Rings]

Bust or not, SF's west coast offense and disciplinarian HC should give him a great chance to succeed.

SF does not run the WCO. SF hasn't run it for years. Martz didn't run it last year, and Jimmy Raye is not a WCO disciple either. Raye and Singletary plan on running a smash-mouth attack, "imposing our will on teams and running the ball whenever we want, whether you know its coming or not" attack.This smash-conservative offense is exactly why I think Crabtree will be overvalued in redrafts, and overdrafted in dynasty leagues. He will not get the targets in SF next season to be a viable fantasy WR2ish starter--which is exactly where he will be drafted at.

This is not to say he will be a bust, but he's exactly the type of guy you let somebody else draft, and you trade for 2 yrs down the line for peanuts. By then, a new QB and OC should have taken over and Crabtree may excel.

 

[One]

Bust or not, SF's west coast offense and disciplinarian HC should give him a great chance to succeed.

SF does not run the WCO. SF hasn't run it for years.

darn it.

 

[5Rings]

Bust or not, SF's west coast offense and disciplinarian HC should give him a great chance to succeed.

SF does not run the WCO. SF hasn't run it for years.

darn it.

As bad as the offense has been, its very hard to tell what they've been trying to do

 

[Balance]

<-- been on the bust-wagon for a while on this guy.

 

[derek19]

As well as his college career has gone, Crabtree didn’t get off to the best start at Texas Tech. He missed the 2006 season when the NCAA Clearinghouse refused to certify him because of a questionable grade from his sophomore year of high school.

Crabtree was disheartened by the situation – he never attended a Red Raiders game that season – but he didn’t let it deter him.

Instead Crabtree made frequent trips back to Dallas to work out with his cousin, David Wells, a former bodyguard for Irvin and Adam “Pacman” Jones. Wells also trains professional boxers in a non-air-conditioned adjacent to his home. Crabtree became a staple there, jumping rope, punching speed bags and heavy bags and lifting weights.

Wells ordered a second set of the equipment and had it sent to Crabtree’s home in Lubbock. With each workout, Crabtree’s intensity increased. His teammates said they could see the difference his efforts were making on the field.

At times, a few of Crabtree’s teammates even became irritated with him for running through tackles too hard during what many felt was supposed to be a “light” practice.

“He’s the most fierce competitor I’ve ever been around,” defensive back Darcel McBath said. “Even when the ball isn’t coming to him, he’s blocking his tail off. He’s trying to drive people out of bounds or into the turf.

“Whether he has the ball in his hands or not, he wants every play to go 80 yards.”

“I’m around pro athletes every day and he’s been around them, too. You see how they screw up. You see the money they’ve made and lost. That’s not going to happen to Michael. He’s got his head on straight.”

– David Wells, professional trainer

Crabtree won the Biletnikoff Award after a freshman season in which he also earned first-team All-American honors. The success hardly caused him to become complacent.

Crabtree said he and Harrell spent their afternoons running 10-yard routes up and down the field at Jones AT&T Stadium, stopping near the end zone for three consecutive plays from the goal line. Down and back, down and back they went – without any water.

“Doing that every day in this Texas heat?” Crabtree said. “Now that’s a workout.”

Maybe the most beneficial experience, though, came when Sanders invited Crabtree to attend his camp at SMU last summer. With NFL all-stars such as Devin Hester and T.J. Houshmandzadeh looking on, Crabtree went one-on-one with Pacman. More times than not, the college kid beat the pro.

“It was remarkable,” Wells said. “He looked like he’d already been playing in the NFL for years. Pacman, naturally, was all mad and pissed off about it. But in the end he couldn’t help but compliment Michael and show his respect.”

Crabtree’s maturation off the field has been striking, too. Last spring he returned to Dallas and went to a party with some of his friends from high school. The next day Wells learned that Crabtree had returned home before midnight.

“He said there was some stuff going on that he didn’t want to be around,” said Wells, who declined to provide specifics. “You’re not going to catch him smoking. You’re not going to catch him drinking. You’re not going to catch him doing things he’s not supposed to do.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news...o&type=lgns

 

[TS Garp]

Singletary's a hard-###, and I think we'll most likely either see Crabtree buy in and really produce or they'll butt heads and things will degenerate quickly. Pre-season could be telling in his case.

 

[puckalicious]

I pointed out in another thread that I heard him interviewed on Sirius NFL Radio before the draft, and he came off very poorly.

The rumor around St. Louis is that he was marked off their draft board after they had him in based on his interview and time spent with the coaches. That being said, there are a lot of knuckleheads that tear it up at WR (TO, Moss, Ocho, etc). I don't see that as a deal breaker but it seems some teams felt that way.

Thats probably why it was a rumor. STL would have been stupid to draft a WR at #2. That team has holes everywhere, and doesn't need to be rebuilt from outside in

St. Louis has a real problem at WR. The youngest and maybe the worst WR corps in the league. Drafting Crabtree would be a legit pick if he turned into the next Fitz. The Rams are not on a 1 year rebuilding cycle. If they felt he was a can't miss guy that would go to multiple pro bowls they would;ve been justified taking him and filled the other holes in the next year or two...

And they have a real problem at OL, and most levels of the defense. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but has any team that has taken a WR in the top 5-10 ever been a consistantly winning team around that player?You can make a case for Fitz, but lets see if Arizona can remain competative over the next few years.

Andre Johnson has the potential as well, but its 5 years later and I can't recall if Houston has even made the playoffs since that pick.

STL can claim all they want that they passed on Crab cause of his bad attitude, but the facts are in. Scouts say he isn't on the same level as Fitz, Andre or Calvin and the team had more pressing needs. Again, STL would have been foolish to take Crab at 2 regardless of attitude.

Dunno, how has it worked out for Detroit? They're on what, the 4th top 10 WR in 6 years? How many winning seasons did that get them?

 

[CalBear]

Mr Crabtree meet Mike Singletary. Vernon Davis will talk to him about being a Diva.

Vernon Davis was successful under Singletary?

 

[TheFanatic]

Mr Crabtree meet Mike Singletary. Vernon Davis will talk to him about being a Diva.

Vernon Davis was successful under Singletary?

He's saying that Crabtree might want to consult with VD before he pulls any diva crap. VD has experienced first hand being a me first guy. Not saying Crabtree is a guy like that, but don't cross Big Mike!!

 

[Raider Nation]

Mr Crabtree meet Mike Singletary. Vernon Davis will talk to him about being a Diva.

Vernon Davis was successful under Singletary?

He's saying that Crabtree might want to consult with VD before he pulls any diva crap. VD has experienced first hand being a me first guy. Not saying Crabtree is a guy like that, but don't cross Big Mike!!

They actually have a lot in common. Davis cried after being drafted because he was overjoyed. Crabtree cried after being drafted because he was missing The Flintstones.

 

[RUSF18]

Re: him only running bubble screens, hitches, and slants...his famous play against Texas, against double coverage, what route was that exactly?

 

[FUBAR]

I pointed out in another thread that I heard him interviewed on Sirius NFL Radio before the draft, and he came off very poorly.

The rumor around St. Louis is that he was marked off their draft board after they had him in based on his interview and time spent with the coaches. That being said, there are a lot of knuckleheads that tear it up at WR (TO, Moss, Ocho, etc). I don't see that as a deal breaker but it seems some teams felt that way.

Thats probably why it was a rumor. STL would have been stupid to draft a WR at #2. That team has holes everywhere, and doesn't need to be rebuilt from outside in

St. Louis has a real problem at WR. The youngest and maybe the worst WR corps in the league. Drafting Crabtree would be a legit pick if he turned into the next Fitz. The Rams are not on a 1 year rebuilding cycle. If they felt he was a can't miss guy that would go to multiple pro bowls they would;ve been justified taking him and filled the other holes in the next year or two...

And they have a real problem at OL, and most levels of the defense. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but has any team that has taken a WR in the top 5-10 ever been a consistantly winning team around that player?You can make a case for Fitz, but lets see if Arizona can remain competative over the next few years.

Andre Johnson has the potential as well, but its 5 years later and I can't recall if Houston has even made the playoffs since that pick.

STL can claim all they want that they passed on Crab cause of his bad attitude, but the facts are in. Scouts say he isn't on the same level as Fitz, Andre or Calvin and the team had more pressing needs. Again, STL would have been foolish to take Crab at 2 regardless of attitude.

how many teams are built around a WR period?

 

[massraider]

Nothing says these immature kids can't grow up either. The Raiders passed on him, so I would love to think he doesn't "get it", but I ahven't heard any questions about work ethic.

There's a lot of clown knucklehead D-Bags kicking ### in the NFL.

 

[Fanatics]

That makes sense. I was just looking at him playing QB so it made him smarter or something. But the 1st round thing just means that he has about a 50-50 chance of succeeding. Guys picked first overall fail all the time. He can too.

FWIW, WRs taken top 10 in the last 20 years:1 2007 1 2 Calvin Johnson WR DET 2007 2008 0 0 2 31 7 51 1 126 2087 16 Georgia Tech 2 2007 1 9 Ted Ginn Jr. WR MIA 2007 2008 0 0 2 32 9 76 2 90 1210 4 Ohio State 8 2005 1 3 Braylon Edwards WR CLE 2005 2008 0 1 3 58 3 7 0 228 3558 28 Michigan 9 2005 1 7 Troy Williamson WR MIN 2005 2008 0 0 1 47 6 58 0 84 1097 4 South Carolina 10 2005 1 10 Mike Williams WR DET 2005 2007 0 0 0 30 44 539 2 USC 14 2004 1 3 Larry Fitzgerald WR ARI 2004 2008 1 3 5 76 16 55 0 426 5975 46 Pittsburgh 15 2004 1 7 Roy E. Williams WR DET 2004 2008 0 1 4 70 6 17 0 281 4082 30 Texas 16 2004 1 9 Reggie Williams WR JAX 2004 2008 0 0 3 79 11 44 0 189 2322 18 Washington 21 2003 1 2 Charles Rogers WR DET 2003 2005 0 0 0 15 2 17 0 36 440 4 Michigan State 22 2003 1 3 Andre Johnson WR HOU 2003 2008 1 3 6 86 18 26 0 486 6379 33 Miami (FL) 27 2001 1 8 David Terrell WR CHI 2001 2005 0 0 1 54 4 14 0 128 1602 9 Michigan 28 2001 1 9 Koren Robinson WR SEA 2001 2008 0 1 4 96 23 115 1 294 4244 16 North Carolina State 33 2000 1 4 Peter Warrick WR CIN 2000 2005 0 0 4 79 53 360 2 275 2991 18 Florida State 34 2000 1 8 Plaxico Burress WR PIT 2000 2008 0 0 9 128 1 -7 0 505 7845 55 Michigan State 35 2000 1 10 Travis Taylor WR BAL 2000 2007 0 0 7 101 32 232 0 312 4017 22 Florida 38 1999 1 6 Torry Holt WR STL 1999 2008 1 7 10 158 11 57 0 869 12660 74 North Carolina State 39 1999 1 8 David Boston WR ARI 1999 2005 1 1 3 75 18 91 0 315 4699 25 Ohio State 44 1997 1 7 Ike Hilliard WR NYG 1997 2008 0 0 8 161 16 126 0 546 6397 35 Florida 48 1996 1 1 Keyshawn Johnson WR NYJ 1996 2006 0 3 11 167 13 91 2 814 10571 64 USC 49 1996 1 7 Terry Glenn WR NWE 1996 2007 0 1 9 137 20 139 1 593 8823 44 Ohio State 53 1995 1 4 Michael Westbrook WR WAS 1995 2002 0 0 6 89 22 160 1 285 4374 26 Colorado 54 1995 1 8 Joey Galloway WR SEA 1995 2008 0 0 11 185 63 496 1 682 10710 77 Ohio State 55 1995 1 10 J.J. Stokes WR SFO 1995 2003 0 0 3 118 1 6 0 342 4293 30 UCLA 60 1993 1 7 Curtis Conway WR CHI 1993 2004 0 0 10 167 50 465 3 594 8230 52 USC 63 1992 1 4 Desmond Howard WR WAS 1992 2002 0 1 1 156 12 68 0 123 1597 7 Michigan 64 1991 1 10 Herman Moore WR DET 1991 2002 3 4 8 146 670 9174 62 Virginia This isn't an overly impressive hit rate. maybe 9 studs.

So really, this thread was going out on a limb with this bold prediction.

 

[Snotbubbles]

NCAAs considered him the best WR in college football the last 2 years. Every draft guru had him as the #1 WR in this draft. The question really needs to be asked...what more do you want? I can see you saying he is no MTron, I can see you saying his attitude doesn't rank compared to Fitz but a "bust"?He will start right away on a team that may be on upward track. The QB position in SF is the only thing that makes me nervous. If he landed in Indy and Wayne was traded we would all be crazy for him.Maybe he is overrated for this year but the sky is the limit for the future if the 9ers cooperate.

I wonder where the draft guru's ranked Charles Rogers. And from reports I've seen 18 NFL teams had Maclin as their #1 WR.

 

[chinawildman]

This is ridiculous... there is one question and one question ONLY that should be asked why ANY WR will bust in the NFL, and that is "can he get open?" If the answer to the above is yes, then the guy can run over cops with a car, squirt water at refs, insinuate that his QB is gay and tired, and anything else he wants to do short of murder and dogfighting... and still be a successful WR in the NFL.

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

"RockHard". Clever, I guess...

Wonder what old poster this is trying to impress his iFriends with a contrarian case, along with some sarcasm sprinkled over top...for old-time fishing's sake. Cute.

 

[puckalicious]

NCAAs considered him the best WR in college football the last 2 years. Every draft guru had him as the #1 WR in this draft.

The question really needs to be asked...what more do you want? I can see you saying he is no MTron, I can see you saying his attitude doesn't rank compared to Fitz but a "bust"?

He will start right away on a team that may be on upward track. The QB position in SF is the only thing that makes me nervous. If he landed in Indy and Wayne was traded we would all be crazy for him.

Maybe he is overrated for this year but the sky is the limit for the future if the 9ers cooperate.

I wonder where the draft guru's ranked Charles Rogers. And from reports I've seen 18 NFL teams had Maclin as their #1 WR.

I recall he was highly ranked due to talent, but was dropping due to being busted for pot. Detroit took a chance on the hometown kid from MSU and got burned. Not because he sucked, but because he suffered not 1 but 2 freak collarbone injuries and then decided to live the rest of his life inside a bong with the money from his signing bonus. He was a "bust" due to character IMO. He had God-given talent but was not a hard worker and pissed it all away.

 

[TheFanatic]

NCAAs considered him the best WR in college football the last 2 years. Every draft guru had him as the #1 WR in this draft.

The question really needs to be asked...what more do you want? I can see you saying he is no MTron, I can see you saying his attitude doesn't rank compared to Fitz but a "bust"?

He will start right away on a team that may be on upward track. The QB position in SF is the only thing that makes me nervous. If he landed in Indy and Wayne was traded we would all be crazy for him.

Maybe he is overrated for this year but the sky is the limit for the future if the 9ers cooperate.

I wonder where the draft guru's ranked Charles Rogers. And from reports I've seen 18 NFL teams had Maclin as their #1 WR.

I recall he was highly ranked due to talent, but was dropping due to being busted for pot. Detroit took a chance on the hometown kid from MSU and got burned. Not because he sucked, but because he suffered not 1 but 2 freak collarbone injuries and then decided to live the rest of his life inside a bong with the money from his signing bonus. He was a "bust" due to character IMO. He had God-given talent but was not a hard worker and pissed it all away.

 

[FUBAR]

This is ridiculous... there is one question and one question ONLY that should be asked why ANY WR will bust in the NFL, and that is "can he get open?" If the answer to the above is yes, then the guy can run over cops with a car, squirt water at refs, insinuate that his QB is gay and tired, and anything else he wants to do short of murder and dogfighting... and still be a successful WR in the NFL.

I'd like it if he could catch the damn ball once open. See Braylon Edwards.

 

[bcr8f]

I recall he was highly ranked due to talent, but was dropping due to being busted for pot. Detroit took a chance on the hometown kid from MSU and got burned. Not because he sucked, but because he suffered not 1 but 2 freak collarbone injuries and then decided to live the rest of his life inside a bong with the money from his signing bonus. He was a "bust" due to character IMO. He had God-given talent but was not a hard worker and pissed it all away.

Exactly. It wasn't Millen's fault. Turning the team into a slow motion train wreck doesn't affect team morale at all.

 

[RockHard]

Better watch out, I've already said those things (along with others) and got crucified for it. I still have the scars on my wrists from those stakes.

Link 1.

Link 2

Link 3

 

[switz]

FWIW, WRs taken top 10 in the last 20 years:

1 2007 1 2 Calvin Johnson WR DET - STUD

2 2007 1 9 Ted Ginn Jr. WR MIA - jury is still out

8 2005 1 3 Braylon Edwards WR CLE - looked great until last year

9 2005 1 7 Troy Williamson WR MIN - everyone knew he was a reach

10 2005 1 10 Mike Williams WR DET - everyone expected him to BUST

14 2004 1 3 Larry Fitzgerald WR ARI - STUD

15 2004 1 7 Roy E. Williams WR DET - SOLID

16 2004 1 9 Reggie Williams WR JAX - he's ok

21 2003 1 2 Charles Rogers WR DET - he was good except injury prone

22 2003 1 3 Andre Johnson WR HOU - STUD, when healthy

27 2001 1 8 David Terrell WR CHI - BUST

28 2001 1 9 Koren Robinson WR SEA - flashed talent, off-field issues caused problems

33 2000 1 4 Peter Warrick WR CIN - BUST

34 2000 1 8 Plaxico Burress WR PIT - almost STUD

35 2000 1 10 Travis Taylor WR BAL - didn't pan out, but not bust

38 1999 1 6 Torry Holt WR STL - STUD

39 1999 1 8 David Boston WR ARI - STUD until he spazzed out

44 1997 1 7 Ike Hilliard WR NYG - not a stud, but solid

48 1996 1 1 Keyshawn Johnson WR NYJ - not a stud, but solid

49 1996 1 7 Terry Glenn WR NWE - STUD when healthy

53 1995 1 4 Michael Westbrook WR WAS - flashes of stud at times

54 1995 1 8 Joey Galloway WR SEA - STUD

55 1995 1 10 J.J. Stokes WR SFO - BUST

60 1993 1 7 Curtis Conway WR CHI - great wr, stud on another team

63 1992 1 4 Desmond Howard WR WAS - same issues Peter Warrick had

64 1991 1 10 Herman Moore WR DET - SOLID

Frankly, the hit rate for solid performers is pretty good. A few of the players that didn't pan out had no business being drafted that early. Most turned into solid performers, if not studs. A few, in better situations, would have been studs.

 

[Zoomanji]

FWIW, WRs taken top 10 in the last 20 years:

1 2007 1 2 Calvin Johnson WR DET - STUD

2 2007 1 9 Ted Ginn Jr. WR MIA - jury is still out

8 2005 1 3 Braylon Edwards WR CLE - looked great until last year

9 2005 1 7 Troy Williamson WR MIN - everyone knew he was a reach

10 2005 1 10 Mike Williams WR DET - everyone expected him to BUST

14 2004 1 3 Larry Fitzgerald WR ARI - STUD

15 2004 1 7 Roy E. Williams WR DET - SOLID

16 2004 1 9 Reggie Williams WR JAX - he's ok

21 2003 1 2 Charles Rogers WR DET - he was good except injury prone

22 2003 1 3 Andre Johnson WR HOU - STUD, when healthy

27 2001 1 8 David Terrell WR CHI - BUST

28 2001 1 9 Koren Robinson WR SEA - flashed talent, off-field issues caused problems

33 2000 1 4 Peter Warrick WR CIN - BUST

34 2000 1 8 Plaxico Burress WR PIT - almost STUD

35 2000 1 10 Travis Taylor WR BAL - didn't pan out, but not bust

38 1999 1 6 Torry Holt WR STL - STUD

39 1999 1 8 David Boston WR ARI - STUD until he spazzed out

44 1997 1 7 Ike Hilliard WR NYG - not a stud, but solid

48 1996 1 1 Keyshawn Johnson WR NYJ - not a stud, but solid

49 1996 1 7 Terry Glenn WR NWE - STUD when healthy

53 1995 1 4 Michael Westbrook WR WAS - flashes of stud at times

54 1995 1 8 Joey Galloway WR SEA - STUD

55 1995 1 10 J.J. Stokes WR SFO - BUST

60 1993 1 7 Curtis Conway WR CHI - great wr, stud on another team

63 1992 1 4 Desmond Howard WR WAS - same issues Peter Warrick had

64 1991 1 10 Herman Moore WR DET - SOLID

Frankly, the hit rate for solid performers is pretty good. A few of the players that didn't pan out had no business being drafted that early. Most turned into solid performers, if not studs. A few, in better situations, would have been studs.

didn't pan out, but not bustwhat's the difference?

I think when you draft a WR in the 1st round you expect a Pro-Bowl Caliber player.

Some of the guys you highlighted were passable NFL players for very short times (Westbrook, Michael) but a guy like Reggie Williams for where he was taken is a bust. If he was a mid 2nd rounder I would agree but not a top 15 guy

 

[switz]

I think when you draft a WR in the 1st round you expect a Pro-Bowl Caliber player.

Some of the guys you highlighted were passable NFL players for very short times (Westbrook, Michael) but a guy like Reggie Williams for where he was taken is a bust. If he was a mid 2nd rounder I would agree but not a top 15 guy

We have different definitions of bust. If I take a player in the first, I 100% expect him to contribute. The later a player goes, the risk in whether he contributes or not goes up. If a player in the first round doesn't contribute (a la Troy Williamson, Mike Williams, JJ Stokes) they are busts. But think about what you are saying, if every first round pick has to be a Pro Bowler or else he's a bust, then MOST first round picks, regardless of position, are busts.Reggie Williams, is entering his fifth year? I would agree on him, but in '07 he looked like he might be a very good #2 WR. Last season the whole team went to pot - is it his fault? What if he rebounds this season, puts up 900-1000 yards? Is he still a bust? I don't think so.

Why I say didn't pan out, but not bust, for a guy like Taylor is because he was the teams #2 WR for a few years. He wasn't the #1 they wanted, but he still had a few good seasons.

 

[TheFanatic]

FWIW, WRs taken top 10 in the last 20 years:

1 2007 1 2 Calvin Johnson WR DET - STUD

2 2007 1 9 Ted Ginn Jr. WR MIA - jury is still out

8 2005 1 3 Braylon Edwards WR CLE - looked great until last year

9 2005 1 7 Troy Williamson WR MIN - everyone knew he was a reach

10 2005 1 10 Mike Williams WR DET - everyone expected him to BUST

14 2004 1 3 Larry Fitzgerald WR ARI - STUD

15 2004 1 7 Roy E. Williams WR DET - SOLID

16 2004 1 9 Reggie Williams WR JAX - he's ok

21 2003 1 2 Charles Rogers WR DET - he was good except injury prone

22 2003 1 3 Andre Johnson WR HOU - STUD, when healthy

27 2001 1 8 David Terrell WR CHI - BUST

28 2001 1 9 Koren Robinson WR SEA - flashed talent, off-field issues caused problems

33 2000 1 4 Peter Warrick WR CIN - BUST

34 2000 1 8 Plaxico Burress WR PIT - almost STUD

35 2000 1 10 Travis Taylor WR BAL - didn't pan out, but not bust

38 1999 1 6 Torry Holt WR STL - STUD

39 1999 1 8 David Boston WR ARI - STUD until he spazzed out

44 1997 1 7 Ike Hilliard WR NYG - not a stud, but solid

48 1996 1 1 Keyshawn Johnson WR NYJ - not a stud, but solid

49 1996 1 7 Terry Glenn WR NWE - STUD when healthy

53 1995 1 4 Michael Westbrook WR WAS - flashes of stud at times

54 1995 1 8 Joey Galloway WR SEA - STUD

55 1995 1 10 J.J. Stokes WR SFO - BUST

60 1993 1 7 Curtis Conway WR CHI - great wr, stud on another team

63 1992 1 4 Desmond Howard WR WAS - same issues Peter Warrick had

64 1991 1 10 Herman Moore WR DET - SOLID

Frankly, the hit rate for solid performers is pretty good. A few of the players that didn't pan out had no business being drafted that early. Most turned into solid performers, if not studs. A few, in better situations, would have been studs.

I disagree with 3 of these:Conway - 1 good season (1K and 12 TD) and two decent seasons (1K each year). Playing a long time does not mean stud or a great WR

Boston - 1 good season, 1 GREAT season. Does not make him a stud or a great WR

Charles Rodgers? Not a chance. Call it fluke injuries if you like. But way too small of a subset to make that determination...

 

[switz]

FWIW, WRs taken top 10 in the last 20 years:

21 2003 1 2 Charles Rogers WR DET - he was good except injury prone

39 1999 1 8 David Boston WR ARI - STUD until he spazzed out

60 1993 1 7 Curtis Conway WR CHI - great wr, stud on another team

Frankly, the hit rate for solid performers is pretty good. A few of the players that didn't pan out had no business being drafted that early. Most turned into solid performers, if not studs. A few, in better situations, would have been studs.

I disagree with 3 of these:Conway - 1 good season (1K and 12 TD) and two decent seasons (1K each year). Playing a long time does not mean stud or a great WR

Boston - 1 good season, 1 GREAT season. Does not make him a stud or a great WR

Charles Rodgers? Not a chance. Call it fluke injuries if you like. But way too small of a subset to make that determination...

Learning how to read still?If you don't tihnk Conway was good, you must also think Terrel Davis stunk :X

Boston was absolutely a stud. Short career? yeah. Stud when he played? absolutely.

Rogers - didn't say he was a stud at all...

 

[Max Power]

FWIW, WRs taken top 10 in the last 20 years:

21 2003 1 2 Charles Rogers WR DET - he was good except injury prone

39 1999 1 8 David Boston WR ARI - STUD until he spazzed out

60 1993 1 7 Curtis Conway WR CHI - great wr, stud on another team

Frankly, the hit rate for solid performers is pretty good. A few of the players that didn't pan out had no business being drafted that early. Most turned into solid performers, if not studs. A few, in better situations, would have been studs.

I disagree with 3 of these:Conway - 1 good season (1K and 12 TD) and two decent seasons (1K each year). Playing a long time does not mean stud or a great WR

Boston - 1 good season, 1 GREAT season. Does not make him a stud or a great WR

Charles Rodgers? Not a chance. Call it fluke injuries if you like. But way too small of a subset to make that determination...

If you don't tihnk Conway was good, you must also think Terrel Davis stunk

I fail to see any logic in this quote.Conway was an average WR who could have been better if the Bears had a QB, but you say ANY WR could have been better if they played with a better QB.

 

[TheFanatic]

FWIW, WRs taken top 10 in the last 20 years:

21 2003 1 2 Charles Rogers WR DET - he was good except injury prone

39 1999 1 8 David Boston WR ARI - STUD until he spazzed out

60 1993 1 7 Curtis Conway WR CHI - great wr, stud on another team

Frankly, the hit rate for solid performers is pretty good. A few of the players that didn't pan out had no business being drafted that early. Most turned into solid performers, if not studs. A few, in better situations, would have been studs.

I disagree with 3 of these:Conway - 1 good season (1K and 12 TD) and two decent seasons (1K each year). Playing a long time does not mean stud or a great WR

Boston - 1 good season, 1 GREAT season. Does not make him a stud or a great WR

Charles Rodgers? Not a chance. Call it fluke injuries if you like. But way too small of a subset to make that determination...

Learning how to read still?If you don't tihnk Conway was good, you must also think Terrel Davis stunk

Boston was absolutely a stud. Short career? yeah. Stud when he played? absolutely.



Rogers - didn't say he was a stud at all...

Oh, the irony. Neither did I, but you are the one whining about my reading skills. Nice job making yourself look like an idiot. I mean, it's just after 2 CST, so I figured it had to happen in the next couple of hours to reach your nearly daily quota of doing just that. You highlighted Rogers as a guy that was at least a solid performer. He most certainly was not Not sure where you get the notion that I said you called him a stud. Must be those sub par reading skills of yours. Project your failings on other much?

Oh, and gotta love putting Conway in with Terrell Davis. Looking foolish twice in one post. Nicely done. CC is no TD. CC is not a solid performer IMO. 12 years in the league, 3 1K receiving years and a sub 14 YPR average for his career. Solid performer? I guess if you think mediocre and injury prone is solid, then I guess you are right.

Boston? Stud when he played? Sure. But since we are looking at this in relation to where they were picked high in the first round, how many GM's would be happy with a top 10 pick having two great years and then flaming out? If they knew that going into the draft nobody will take the guy in the top 10. But keep telling yourself that he was worth a top 10 selection. Maybe you should look at your classifications in the context of the thread. Of course that will require reading skills. Good luck with that...

 

[bcr8f]

he can’t shower, not with his foot in a cast.

I wore a plastic bag over the cast and showered when mine was in a cast.

Finally I dont believe that Crabtree is a great athlete I see no explosion from him when coming out of breaks, he is slow, he carries the ball like a loaf of bread, he isnt big or physically imposing and he wore a lavender shirt to the draft.

A lavender shirt?

 

[puckalicious]

FWIW, WRs taken top 10 in the last 20 years:

21 2003 1 2 Charles Rogers WR DET - he was good except injury prone

39 1999 1 8 David Boston WR ARI - STUD until he spazzed out

60 1993 1 7 Curtis Conway WR CHI - great wr, stud on another team

Frankly, the hit rate for solid performers is pretty good. A few of the players that didn't pan out had no business being drafted that early. Most turned into solid performers, if not studs. A few, in better situations, would have been studs.

I disagree with 3 of these:Conway - 1 good season (1K and 12 TD) and two decent seasons (1K each year). Playing a long time does not mean stud or a great WR

Boston - 1 good season, 1 GREAT season. Does not make him a stud or a great WR

Charles Rodgers? Not a chance. Call it fluke injuries if you like. But way too small of a subset to make that determination...

Learning how to read still?If you don't tihnk Conway was good, you must also think Terrel Davis stunk

Boston was absolutely a stud. Short career? yeah. Stud when he played? absolutely.



Rogers - didn't say he was a stud at all...

Oh, the irony. Neither did I, but you are the one whining about my reading skills. Nice job making yourself look like an idiot. I mean, it's just after 2 CST, so I figured it had to happen in the next couple of hours to reach your nearly daily quota of doing just that. You highlighted Rogers as a guy that was at least a solid performer. He most certainly was not Not sure where you get the notion that I said you called him a stud. Must be those sub par reading skills of yours. Project your failings on other much?

Oh, and gotta love putting Conway in with Terrell Davis. Looking foolish twice in one post. Nicely done. CC is no TD. CC is not a solid performer IMO. 12 years in the league, 3 1K receiving years and a sub 14 YPR average for his career. Solid performer? I guess if you think mediocre and injury prone is solid, then I guess you are right.

Boston? Stud when he played? Sure. But since we are looking at this in relation to where they were picked high in the first round, how many GM's would be happy with a top 10 pick having two great years and then flaming out? If they knew that going into the draft nobody will take the guy in the top 10. But keep telling yourself that he was worth a top 10 selection. Maybe you should look at your classifications in the context of the thread. Of course that will require reading skills. Good luck with that...

Rogers did put up 22/243/3 in his first 5 games before blowing out his collarbone twice, and looked good doing it. He finally saw the field again in 2005 when he got suspended for ganja and generally just sucked. Certainly not a stud, but certainly not a bust pre-injury/bonghit/whatever. With such a small sample size I think the jury will always be out with him.

 

[switz]

Oh, and gotta love putting Conway in with Terrell Davis. Looking foolish twice in one post. Nicely done. CC is no TD. CC is not a solid performer IMO. 12 years in the league, 3 1K receiving years and a sub 14 YPR average for his career. Solid performer? I guess if you think mediocre and injury prone is solid, then I guess you are right.

Mediocre? He had over 1k receiving in '95 and '96, his only healthy seasons with the Bears of all teams! Terrell Davis had only three good seasons as well, when he was healthy, in one of the best running schemes we've seen in the modern NFL.Both had their health issues, both were great when healthy. One played in a great situation, one played in a bad situation.

 

[Max Power]

Oh, and gotta love putting Conway in with Terrell Davis. Looking foolish twice in one post. Nicely done. CC is no TD. CC is not a solid performer IMO. 12 years in the league, 3 1K receiving years and a sub 14 YPR average for his career. Solid performer? I guess if you think mediocre and injury prone is solid, then I guess you are right.

Mediocre? He had over 1k receiving in '95 and '96, his only healthy seasons with the Bears of all teams!

Jeff Graham had more receptions and yardage than CC in 95. It was an air-it-out offense, all the WR stats were inflated

 

[TheFanatic]

Oh, and gotta love putting Conway in with Terrell Davis. Looking foolish twice in one post. Nicely done. CC is no TD. CC is not a solid performer IMO. 12 years in the league, 3 1K receiving years and a sub 14 YPR average for his career. Solid performer? I guess if you think mediocre and injury prone is solid, then I guess you are right.

Mediocre? He had over 1k receiving in '95 and '96, his only healthy seasons with the Bears of all teams! Terrell Davis had only three good seasons as well, when he was healthy, in one of the best running schemes we've seen in the modern NFL.Both had their health issues, both were great when healthy. One played in a great situation, one played in a bad situation.

One dominated the league and went to two SB's. He didn't have good years, he had phenomenal years.One barely cracked 1K yards for the season. 70 yards per game is not dominant. It's decent. I'd dare say it's even solid. One of those years he had 12 TD's and I would call that a pretty good year. But he played 12 years, not 3. In 12 years he had 2 decent seasons and a pretty good season. Otherwise he didn't do much. Again, in the context of the original intent of this thread, I doubt he would go as high as he did in hindsight and thus his draft position did not predict high production....