5Rings
Lurker
Yes. btw--agree w/CP on Knobs. ooof
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Crabtree (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Art Vandalay
- Start date
Hoss_Cartwright
Footballguy
He might be the 3rd or 4th WR off the board. I know Dez White will get drafted before Crabtree, and probably Benn and LaFell, and possibly Marshawn Gilyard, and Demaryius Thomas.
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tim_whatley
Footballguy
Crabtree beat out Dez Bryant in back to back years for the Biletnikoff award. Why is Bryant a slam dunk to be drafted ahead of a healthy Crabtree, who by all accounts was a better collegiate WR?
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dez bryant... ?
massraider
Footballguy
No, they offered him a deal where he cold make up to $1 less than Raji, the guy taken before him. IIRC.
You can promise anything you want, especially if you have no intention of keeping that promise. If I was an NFL owner I would have my GM let both Crabtree and Parker know (through untraceable backroom channels of course) that I would gladly pay Michael $40 million guaranteed next year if we can draft him. This way I know that he won't be signing this year and that he will be a PITA to sign for whoever drafts him next year. I just know that it's not going to be me.
massraider
Footballguy
I don't think all accounts agree that Crabtree will be a better pro. At all. And one of these guys will have the ability to work out for teams, talk to them, and didn't behave like a nightmare the previous year.
It's unrelated, but Singletary has recently said he's going to "open up the offense" and let Hill air it out more.Btw, here's a very interesting link I saw today.Here's his chance; I hope Brandon Jones steps up.
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Enter-...-here-9926.html
This is correct.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Because Dez is the new shiny toy. I liked Crabtree more as a pro prospect. I do worry what a full season away from the game will do to him. For the reason, I'd take Bryant ahead of him and possibly Benn.I don't care how much he's working out [Crabtree]. I want to know that what he's doing is football related. I don't care if his cousin is a personal trainer[as I believe I previously read]. Know a few PT's that should be 2nd grade P.E. teachers.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Well, my point was that no one can truthfully or legitimately offer these promises, which you appear to be agreeing with.
5Rings
Lurker
Yup--I'm corrected--thanks MR
Wilbur Wood
Footballguy
Sitting out a year did wonders for Mike Williams NFL career.
tim_whatley
Footballguy
He wasn't a two time Biletnikoff winner.
His career sucked because he wasn't that good. But he was still a top pick (top 10 IIRC). Also, I believe he had to sit out - if I were a team I would be more apt to frown upon a guy who chose to sit out like Crabtree vs. a player who had to sit out for some technicality.
massraider
Footballguy
Mike Hass won that award.
Multiple Scores
Footballguy
Crabtree/Parker on way to SF to negotiate contract
I'm guessing he signs pretty quick, if he wasn't going to sign and just yap they could have talked on the phone.
I'm guessing he signs pretty quick, if he wasn't going to sign and just yap they could have talked on the phone.
BuckeyeArt
Footballguy
Amazing what a 3-1 record will do.
footballnerd
Footballguy
Deon hinted yesterday that he'd sign too, so the trio prob made the determination of the weekend.
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footballnerd
Footballguy
When your mentor puts out this video, you know you holding out.
TommyGilmore
Footballguy
So did Josh Reed and......Marcus Harris.
Multiple Scores
Footballguy
And so did a bunch of studs and Hall of Famers. What's the point? Did any of those win twice, did any WR ever win twice? Did any ever win as a Freshman? I hate these arguments, Kijana Carter was picked #1 overall, he was a bust? OJ Simpson was picked #1 overall, he was a bust? Just because Josh Reed won the award that Crabtree won doesn't mean automatically that he sucks.
Not Sure
Footballguy
It doesn't mean he will be a good player in the NFL either. It's irrelevant when it comes to the NFL.
massraider
Footballguy
You are absolutely right. But the opposite is true, no? A player isn't guaranteed to be a stud because he won an award, is he?The basis of Mr. Whatley's argument seems to be that Crabtree is a top 10 pick next year, and a better prospect than Bryant, because he won an award twice.
If he does end up signing this week, how long before he'd be up to speed and start making a fantasy impact?
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Crabtree isn't choosing to sit out any more than the 49ers are choosing to not sign one of their draft picks.
bcr8f
Footballguy
The Niners gave him a fair offer. What has Crabtree done?
massraider
Footballguy
About 10 months is my guess.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Crabtree gave the 49ers a fair counteroffer. You can play this game all day. But I don't think either side (SF or Crabtree) is more to blame at this point.
lod01
Footballguy
49ers show the world they don't even need him. Craptree caves in finally. What a sissy. He thought he was hot ####. Now Singletary will make him cry.
massraider
Footballguy
Well, what would an unfair counteroffer from Crabtree consist of? If it is true that they offered him a deal worth up to $1 less than Raji, I don't see how the 49ers have any blame here at all.
I agree (other than possibly some blame for drafting him).
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Not Sure
Footballguy
What was Crabtree's counteroffer?
massraider
Footballguy
IIRC, he wants more than DHB. now, a lot might not consider that a fair counteroffer, but this goes back to a point Stuart made earlier. I am wondering how much he would have to ask for in order for Chase to consider it unfair, or unrealistic.
EBF
Footballguy
Lifetime supply of Cinnamon Toast Crunch and Nintendo games.
massraider
Footballguy
Sure, but that is neither here nor there. He was considered value, no one ever saw anything like this coming, and I certainly remember nothing but confetti and congratulations about the pick. There was diva talk, but that comes standard on the WR model.
Not true, Chase. Not even close. Crabtree is electing to sit out on the theory that he should be paid higher than his draft position/market value says he should. The 49ers have offered him fair money for the position he was drafted.
tim_whatley
Footballguy
You're simplifying my position.Of course winning the award does not equate to certain NFL greatness. It is, however, a unique qualifyier, in as much as Crabtree was the ONLY one to ever win the award multiple times, was the only one to ever win the award as a (red shirt) freshman, and would have certainly be the favorite to win the award AGAIN if he were still in school.By that measure, I believe it is not completely fair to compare Crabtree's prospects to 1) other past extended holdouts 2) previous Biletnikoff winners whose game didn't translate to the pros 3) current collegiate WRs who might be in the same 2010 draft pool if Crabtree held out all year.The guy was flat-out a monster in the NCAAs. His raw talent is literally unique to his situation... no one in recent history has been that much better than all his collegiate peers over a two year period as Crabtree. Does that stamp his ticket to NFL superstardom? Of course not.
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massraider
Footballguy
Texas Tech offense. That's my answer.
CalBear
Footballguy
You don't know what the 49ers have offered him. You have only their own assurances that they've offered him a deal that could be worth "up to" $1 less than the guy picked before him. Did you see the contract? What are the incentives? Are they realistic? What portion of the contract is guaranteed?No one has answers to those questions except the Niners and Crabtree; Crabtree's not talking, and the Niners have strong incentive to be disingenuous in the things they let leak.
Not Sure
Footballguy
I am wondering that too because most rational people wouldn't consider asking for more than a player drafted several spots higher than him to be a fair counteroffer. I really doubt any NFL team would consider it a fair counteroffer. Whether or not Crabtree thinks he is better than DHB or any other player is irrelevant to whether or not his counteroffer is fair.
Just because Crabtree thinks he is better than DHB, doesn't mean the 49ers are obligated to agree with him. It's obvious that the teams that all passed on Crabtree aren't quite as anamoured with his talent as he is.
massraider
Footballguy
Well, the argument can be made that Crabtree has nothing to do with the slotting system. He didn't agree to it, and he's not under contract. He can ask for whatever he wants, he's not violating anything by holding out. And I actually agree with the premise. If a player is willing to pay the price, and hold out for a year, then good luck. I think it's a dumb business move, but it is within his rights.
Not Sure
Footballguy
I don't consider that argument to be valid at all, and obviously neither do NFL teams. Just because it's within his rights doesn't mean it's a fair or rational counteroffer. When you know before you even make the offer that no NFL team would consider your offer, then it's pretty obvious that its not a fair or rational counteroffer. There is a difference between what is in someone's rights and what is considered a fair offer. In this case it's a big difference.
massraider
Footballguy
Not sure that NFL teams' opinions really carry much weight in deciding whether or not its a valid argument. It is in their best interest to slot players, and pay them as little as possible.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Asking for Matt Stafford money would be unrealistic. Asking for more money than the #1 WR in this year's draft isn't unrealistic or unfair, IMO.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
And just because the 49ers think that every player should get pay a certain amount based on their draft slot instead of their talent doesn't mean the players are obligated to agree with them. It's not like Crabtree signed some agreement saying "I will sign whatever contract is appropriate for the draft slot at which I am taken" and is now backing out. NFL teams decided that there should be a slotting system, not Michael Crabtree. So I don't think it's at all surprising that the NFL team is arguing for Crabtree to take the money for his "slot" and Crabtree disagrees. That's no different than all college players getting together and deciding that they should all be paid based on their college production, and then the Bengals flipping out when Andre Smith wants more money than Matthew Stafford.Just because Crabtree thinks he is better than DHB, doesn't mean the 49ers are obligated to agree with him. It's obvious that the teams that all passed on Crabtree aren't quite as anamoured with his talent as he is.
Aside from what I just bolded, which seems out of place, I think you just agreed with everything massraider wrote. Crabtree has a right to be dumb.
