Crayton says Patriot D isn't the real deal. (1 Viewer)

[Bankerguy]

"The only time they stopped us is when we had penalties. If that's stopping us, it is what it is."

Memo to Pat: Your offense amassed less than 300 total yards.Your offense started the game with 3 three-and-outs. No penalties were called.Late in the game, down by 14, your special teams gave you the ball on the NE 23. Your offense put up a field goal. Penalties? Nope. On your next possession, really your last chance to remain in the game, your QB, under heavy pressure, threw a silly interception. Again, no penalties.

Wow, someone that saw the same game I did. Don't the rest of you pay attention.

You aren't watching everything.

 

[Bankerguy]

Points and Yards alone are not good measures of a defense. I went with the following metric as a better way to compare defenses based solely on there own stats. I took the Average Points allowed per game and divided into the Average Time (The defense is on the field). This gives us the average number of points allowed/minute on the field.

Here were the results:

Pittsburgh Steelers

Jacksonville Jaguars

Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Washington Redskins

Seattle Seahawks

Tennessee Titans

Kansas City Chiefs

Minnesota Vikings

Philadelphia Eagles

Carolina Panthers

Green Bay Packers

San Francisco 49ers

Indianapolis Colts

New England Patriots

Baltimore Ravens

San Diego Chargers

Atlanta Falcons

Buffalo Bills

Arizona Cardinals

Chicago Bears

Houston Texans

Dallas Cowboys

New York Giants

New York Jets

Denver Broncos

St. Louis Rams

Oakland Raiders

Cleveland Browns

Miami Dolphins

Detroit Lions

New Orleans Saints

Cincinnati Bengals

 

[dgreen]

Points and Yards alone are not good measures of a defense. I went with the following metric as a better way to compare defenses based solely on there own stats. I took the Average Points allowed per game and divided into the Average Time (The defense is on the field). This gives us the average number of points allowed/minute on the field.

So, a team would be negatively affected by forcing quick 3-and-outs or causing quick turnovers. A team would be positively affected by giving up long, time-consuming drives.There's no single stat that should be used to on its own to rank defenses.

 

[switz]

Points and Yards alone are not good measures of a defense. I went with the following metric as a better way to compare defenses based solely on there own stats. I took the Average Points allowed per game and divided into the Average Time (The defense is on the field). This gives us the average number of points allowed/minute on the field.

So, a team would be negatively affected by forcing quick 3-and-outs or causing quick turnovers. A team would be positively affected by giving up long, time-consuming drives.There's no single stat that should be used to on its own to rank defenses.

No, just the opposite.

 

[Bankerguy]

Points and Yards alone are not good measures of a defense. I went with the following metric as a better way to compare defenses based solely on there own stats. I took the Average Points allowed per game and divided into the Average Time (The defense is on the field). This gives us the average number of points allowed/minute on the field.

So, a team would be negatively affected by forcing quick 3-and-outs or causing quick turnovers. A team would be positively affected by giving up long, time-consuming drives.There's no single stat that should be used to on its own to rank defenses.

I'll concede it's not perfect, but a darn good measure....imo. It does show that NE benefits HUGE from their Off.This does show that they aren't the world beaters the Pats Homers make em out to be either.

 

[David Yudkin]

Points and Yards alone are not good measures of a defense. I went with the following metric as a better way to compare defenses based solely on there own stats. I took the Average Points allowed per game and divided into the Average Time (The defense is on the field). This gives us the average number of points allowed/minute on the field.

So, a team would be negatively affected by forcing quick 3-and-outs or causing quick turnovers. A team would be positively affected by giving up long, time-consuming drives.There's no single stat that should be used to on its own to rank defenses.

Similarly, in NE's case they have been ahead so often that opponent's have resorted to passing more and rushing less, meaning that drives go much quicker due to incompletions and running out of bounds vs. having the clock running when rushing the ball.By comparison, last's year's Patriots team allowed a total of 237 points. The 07 version is on track to allow 245. That's a difference of half a point per game.

 

[Boston]

Only read some of the posts here but there's some reaching going on. The Pats D is one of the best units in the league. They have tons of talent in guys like Warren, Wilfork, Thomas, Colvin, Vrabel, Samuel as well as ( a hopefully soon to be returning) Richard Seymour. They're also deep on the line and in the secondary with players like Jarvis Green, Mike Wright, Rodney, Hobbs, Sanders, Randall Gay and Eugene Wilson. Add that talent to the top defensive mind in the business and this is a unit that will more than hold their own on most Sundays and will have the stats to back it up. Sunday wan't their best effort but they still held a high-powered offense to under 300 yards while playing in front of a very hostile crowd on the road. Outside of Indy I don't think they'll come across a better O this year.

If you want to say the offense is the superior unit that looks to be a legit point. Yet, if you don't think the Pats D is one of the top D's in the league you're going to have a lot of knowledgeable football minds that will wholeheartedly disagree with you.

 

[Boston]

Points and Yards alone are not good measures of a defense. I went with the following metric as a better way to compare defenses based solely on there own stats. I took the Average Points allowed per game and divided into the Average Time (The defense is on the field). This gives us the average number of points allowed/minute on the field.

So, a team would be negatively affected by forcing quick 3-and-outs or causing quick turnovers. A team would be positively affected by giving up long, time-consuming drives.There's no single stat that should be used to on its own to rank defenses.

Similarly, in NE's case they have been ahead so often that opponent's have resorted to passing more and rushing less, meaning that drives go much quicker due to incompletions and running out of bounds vs. having the clock running when rushing the ball.By comparison, last's year's Patriots team allowed a total of 237 points. The 07 version is on track to allow 245. That's a difference of half a point per game.

That 237 was a team record as well...and they have a shot at beating that this year.

 

[Phurfur]

"The only time they stopped us is when we had penalties. If that's stopping us, it is what it is."

Memo to Pat: Your offense amassed less than 300 total yards.Your offense started the game with 3 three-and-outs. No penalties were called.Late in the game, down by 14, your special teams gave you the ball on the NE 23. Your offense put up a field goal. Penalties? Nope. On your next possession, really your last chance to remain in the game, your QB, under heavy pressure, threw a silly interception. Again, no penalties.

Wow, someone that saw the same game I did. Don't the rest of you pay attention.

You aren't watching everything.

I saw the game and being neither a Pats or Cowboy fan I saw it through unbiased eyes. I really didn't care who won. At this point Dallas is not in the same class as NE.

 

[Barry]

It was however stupid for Crayton to say anything at all, whether or not that there is any merit to it. As a player, you just don't say this stuff.

screw that. he straps it on every week, he can say whatever he wants.

 

[twitch]

Points and Yards alone are not good measures of a defense. I went with the following metric as a better way to compare defenses based solely on there own stats. I took the Average Points allowed per game and divided into the Average Time (The defense is on the field). This gives us the average number of points allowed/minute on the field.

Here were the results:

Pittsburgh Steelers

Jacksonville Jaguars

Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Washington Redskins

Seattle Seahawks

Tennessee Titans

Kansas City Chiefs

Minnesota Vikings

Philadelphia Eagles

Carolina Panthers

Green Bay Packers

San Francisco 49ers

Indianapolis Colts

New England Patriots

Baltimore Ravens

San Diego Chargers

Atlanta Falcons

Buffalo Bills

Arizona Cardinals

Chicago Bears

Houston Texans

Dallas Cowboys

New York Giants

New York Jets

Denver Broncos

St. Louis Rams

Oakland Raiders

Cleveland Browns

Miami Dolphins

Detroit Lions

New Orleans Saints

Cincinnati Bengals

You need to package that formula, give it a fancy name, and send it off to the league office. Maybe call it the TURD formula because that's about what its worth. nice job.

 

[Phurfur]

He was a stud in his two years before Manning was drafted. And also during Manning's rough rookie year. So yes, he's an elite talent, albeit one that became even more elite because of his QB.

He was awesome before Manning got there with very poor QBs.

It was however stupid for Crayton to say anything at all, whether or not that there is any merit to it. As a player, you just don't say this stuff.

screw that. he straps it on every week, he can say whatever he wants.

Yes he can, and people can say it was stupid because they are paying his salary.

 

[duaneok66]

Points and Yards alone are not good measures of a defense. I went with the following metric as a better way to compare defenses based solely on there own stats. I took the Average Points allowed per game and divided into the Average Time (The defense is on the field). This gives us the average number of points allowed/minute on the field.

Here were the results:

Pittsburgh Steelers

Jacksonville Jaguars

Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Washington Redskins

Seattle Seahawks

Tennessee Titans

Kansas City Chiefs

Minnesota Vikings

Philadelphia Eagles

Carolina Panthers

Green Bay Packers

San Francisco 49ers

Indianapolis Colts

New England Patriots

Baltimore Ravens

San Diego Chargers

Atlanta Falcons

Buffalo Bills

Arizona Cardinals

Chicago Bears

Houston Texans

Dallas Cowboys

New York Giants

New York Jets

Denver Broncos

St. Louis Rams

Oakland Raiders

Cleveland Browns

Miami Dolphins

Detroit Lions

New Orleans Saints

Cincinnati Bengals

nice job , but I'll take footballoutsiders.com's version . . .

 

[Bankerguy]

Points and Yards alone are not good measures of a defense. I went with the following metric as a better way to compare defenses based solely on there own stats. I took the Average Points allowed per game and divided into the Average Time (The defense is on the field). This gives us the average number of points allowed/minute on the field.

Here were the results:

Pittsburgh Steelers

Jacksonville Jaguars

Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Washington Redskins

Seattle Seahawks

Tennessee Titans

Kansas City Chiefs

Minnesota Vikings

Philadelphia Eagles

Carolina Panthers

Green Bay Packers

San Francisco 49ers

Indianapolis Colts

New England Patriots

Baltimore Ravens

San Diego Chargers

Atlanta Falcons

Buffalo Bills

Arizona Cardinals

Chicago Bears

Houston Texans

Dallas Cowboys

New York Giants

New York Jets

Denver Broncos

St. Louis Rams

Oakland Raiders

Cleveland Browns

Miami Dolphins

Detroit Lions

New Orleans Saints

Cincinnati Bengals

nice job , but I'll take footballoutsiders.com's version . . .

What is the formula they use?

 

[Bankerguy]

Points and Yards alone are not good measures of a defense. I went with the following metric as a better way to compare defenses based solely on there own stats. I took the Average Points allowed per game and divided into the Average Time (The defense is on the field). This gives us the average number of points allowed/minute on the field.

Here were the results:

Pittsburgh Steelers

Jacksonville Jaguars

Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Washington Redskins

Seattle Seahawks

Tennessee Titans

Kansas City Chiefs

Minnesota Vikings

Philadelphia Eagles

Carolina Panthers

Green Bay Packers

San Francisco 49ers

Indianapolis Colts

New England Patriots

Baltimore Ravens

San Diego Chargers

Atlanta Falcons

Buffalo Bills

Arizona Cardinals

Chicago Bears

Houston Texans

Dallas Cowboys

New York Giants

New York Jets

Denver Broncos

St. Louis Rams

Oakland Raiders

Cleveland Browns

Miami Dolphins

Detroit Lions

New Orleans Saints

Cincinnati Bengals

You need to package that formula, give it a fancy name, and send it off to the league office. Maybe call it the TURD formula because that's about what its worth. nice job.

Again, never said it was the "end be all" stat. However it is a way to objectively analyze the effect the Offense has on the NE Def. I guess there is no in between for some. Do I think they are the 14th best D......no. This does give a different perspective though. Do with it what you like, or better yet provide a better way to statiscally analyze this. I'm all ears.

 

[The Moz]

NE's best Defensive player hasn't even played yet - Richard Seymour. Meriweather will be a beast in nickel.

Still think NE has maybe the 3rd best D in the NFL if not really better !

 

[Phurfur]

I think Crayton should shut up and worry about winning his Division before he starts talking SB. The 'Boys may not realize it but they only have a 1 game lead in the NFC East. I think this team is getting set up for failure by all the hype and media praise.

 

[twitch]

Points and Yards alone are not good measures of a defense. I went with the following metric as a better way to compare defenses based solely on there own stats. I took the Average Points allowed per game and divided into the Average Time (The defense is on the field). This gives us the average number of points allowed/minute on the field.

Here were the results:

Pittsburgh Steelers

Jacksonville Jaguars

Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Washington Redskins

Seattle Seahawks

Tennessee Titans

Kansas City Chiefs

Minnesota Vikings

Philadelphia Eagles

Carolina Panthers

Green Bay Packers

San Francisco 49ers

Indianapolis Colts

New England Patriots

Baltimore Ravens

San Diego Chargers

Atlanta Falcons

Buffalo Bills

Arizona Cardinals

Chicago Bears

Houston Texans

Dallas Cowboys

New York Giants

New York Jets

Denver Broncos

St. Louis Rams

Oakland Raiders

Cleveland Browns

Miami Dolphins

Detroit Lions

New Orleans Saints

Cincinnati Bengals

You need to package that formula, give it a fancy name, and send it off to the league office. Maybe call it the TURD formula because that's about what its worth. nice job.

Again, never said it was the "end be all" stat. However it is a way to objectively analyze the effect the Offense has on the NE Def. I guess there is no in between for some. Do I think they are the 14th best D......no. This does give a different perspective though. Do with it what you like, or better yet provide a better way to statiscally analyze this. I'm all ears.

There are other variables to use that make sense, like point spread specifically. Logically, the point margin in a game will often dictate the type of scheme a D will run. NE has led 2 games this year by margins of 24-0 and 20-0 at the half. Wouldnt you think those leads dictated how they were playing D? Of course it did. NE has led by 2 or 3 scores for significant time this season. Out of 360 minutes played, theyve only trailed for 12 minutes. that's a huge factor in their approach. Defensively, theyre playing off the ball much more, giving cushions, playing less aggressively, blitzing less, playing alot of 2 deep, basically trying to of course 'bend but dont break' most of the time. Theyll give up points and yards with that approach, but theyll kill time and secure wins. so, factor that time/lead variable into a defensive formula, and Ill be impressed. not that I wasnt already with the #s you crunched before. I just didnt consider it very accurate.

 

[Phurfur]

Points and Yards alone are not good measures of a defense. I went with the following metric as a better way to compare defenses based solely on there own stats. I took the Average Points allowed per game and divided into the Average Time (The defense is on the field). This gives us the average number of points allowed/minute on the field.

Here were the results:

Pittsburgh Steelers

Jacksonville Jaguars

Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Washington Redskins

Seattle Seahawks

Tennessee Titans

Kansas City Chiefs

Minnesota Vikings

Philadelphia Eagles

Carolina Panthers

Green Bay Packers

San Francisco 49ers

Indianapolis Colts

New England Patriots

Baltimore Ravens

San Diego Chargers

Atlanta Falcons

Buffalo Bills

Arizona Cardinals

Chicago Bears

Houston Texans

Dallas Cowboys

New York Giants

New York Jets

Denver Broncos

St. Louis Rams

Oakland Raiders

Cleveland Browns

Miami Dolphins

Detroit Lions

New Orleans Saints

Cincinnati Bengals

You need to package that formula, give it a fancy name, and send it off to the league office. Maybe call it the TURD formula because that's about what its worth. nice job.

Again, never said it was the "end be all" stat. However it is a way to objectively analyze the effect the Offense has on the NE Def. I guess there is no in between for some. Do I think they are the 14th best D......no. This does give a different perspective though. Do with it what you like, or better yet provide a better way to statiscally analyze this. I'm all ears.

There are other variables to use that make sense, like point spread specifically. Logically, the point margin in a game will often dictate the type of scheme a D will run. NE has led 2 games this year by margins of 24-0 and 20-0 at the half. Wouldnt you think those leads dictated how they were playing D? Of course it did. NE has led by 2 or 3 scores for significant time this season. Out of 360 minutes played, theyve only trailed for 12 minutes. that's a huge factor in their approach. Defensively, theyre playing off the ball much more, giving cushions, playing less aggressively, blitzing less, playing alot of 2 deep, basically trying to of course 'bend but dont break' most of the time. Theyll give up points and yards with that approach, but theyll kill time and secure wins. so, factor that time/lead variable into a defensive formula, and Ill be impressed. not that I wasnt already with the #s you crunched before. I just didnt consider it very accurate.

Last time I checked the only stats that counted were W & L.

 

[shakeybarn]

Muzzle

When you lose 48-27, you can think whatever you'd like but you have to keep it quiet youngster.

Hello cowboy, the weak spot on NE is there D. Their offense run like an oiled machine. But even with their high ranking, I wasn't impressed with their D. I'd like to know where NE ranks in the time of possession category.

When you score that quickly and easily.... TOP means nothing. TOP means more in a 14-10 "between the 20s" game. That's beginner football 101.

The #1, #2, #3, and #4 most important defensive stat is points yielded. Even then you need to look to see when/if the points scored in garbage time.

 

[DropKick]

I wasn't impressed with their D.

They held Dallas' offense to 283 yards and 20 points.So, if you aren't impressed with the NE D, I assume you aren't too impressed with the Dallas O either?

Wasn't there a defensive TD and a Kick-off return for TD? Sounds like 13 points to me.Not all that bad considering Seymour is still out and they were on the road playing a team that appeared fired up.

 

[eom]

hahahahahaha...skimming through this thread and reading about how dallas beat themselves and the pats aren't that great reminds me of the san diego playoff game last year!!

hahahahahahahahahahaha...!!!!!!!

you guys crack me up!!!!

I'll be looking fwd to that indy game --- at least their fans have something to talk about.

 

[BigTex]

I wasn't impressed with their D.

They held Dallas' offense to 283 yards and 20 points.So, if you aren't impressed with the NE D, I assume you aren't too impressed with the Dallas O either?

Wasn't there a defensive TD and a Kick-off return for TD? Sounds like 13 points to me.Not all that bad considering Seymour is still out and they were on the road playing a team that appeared fired up.

I still believe the D is the weak link.

 

[zoonation]

I wasn't impressed with their D.

They held Dallas' offense to 283 yards and 20 points.So, if you aren't impressed with the NE D, I assume you aren't too impressed with the Dallas O either?

Wasn't there a defensive TD and a Kick-off return for TD? Sounds like 13 points to me.Not all that bad considering Seymour is still out and they were on the road playing a team that appeared fired up.

I still believe the D is the weak link.

No question. They look soft. Indy will take a good run at them, and Dallas or GB will have a great shot if their Ds can hold up.

 

[Bill Lust]

I wasn't impressed with their D.

They held Dallas' offense to 283 yards and 20 points.So, if you aren't impressed with the NE D, I assume you aren't too impressed with the Dallas O either?

Wasn't there a defensive TD and a Kick-off return for TD? Sounds like 13 points to me.Not all that bad considering Seymour is still out and they were on the road playing a team that appeared fired up.

I still believe the D is the weak link.

No question. They look soft. Indy will take a good run at them, and Dallas or GB will have a great shot if their Ds can hold up.

They played terribly tonight. However, I seem to remember them doing pretty well against Indy and Dallas the first time around. We will see.

 

[zoonation]

I wasn't impressed with their D.

They held Dallas' offense to 283 yards and 20 points.So, if you aren't impressed with the NE D, I assume you aren't too impressed with the Dallas O either?

Wasn't there a defensive TD and a Kick-off return for TD? Sounds like 13 points to me.Not all that bad considering Seymour is still out and they were on the road playing a team that appeared fired up.

I still believe the D is the weak link.

No question. They look soft. Indy will take a good run at them, and Dallas or GB will have a great shot if their Ds can hold up.

They played terribly tonight. However, I seem to remember them doing pretty well against Indy and Dallas the first time around. We will see.

Dallas drove the ball up and down the field. We will see. I still think that no matter how good the Dallas O is, the secondary will not be able to handle Brady and Co.Dallas would move the ball all day, as would GB.

 

[Bill Lust]

I wasn't impressed with their D.

They held Dallas' offense to 283 yards and 20 points.So, if you aren't impressed with the NE D, I assume you aren't too impressed with the Dallas O either?

Wasn't there a defensive TD and a Kick-off return for TD? Sounds like 13 points to me.Not all that bad considering Seymour is still out and they were on the road playing a team that appeared fired up.

I still believe the D is the weak link.

No question. They look soft. Indy will take a good run at them, and Dallas or GB will have a great shot if their Ds can hold up.

They played terribly tonight. However, I seem to remember them doing pretty well against Indy and Dallas the first time around. We will see.

Dallas drove the ball up and down the field. We will see. I still think that no matter how good the Dallas O is, the secondary will not be able to handle Brady and Co.Dallas would move the ball all day, as would GB.

I don't care if Dallas gets 800 yards of total offense. If they only score 20 points on offense, they are not beating the Patriots.EDIT: I just checked the box score. Dallas had 283 yards of total offense. That is hardly moving the ball up and down the field.

 

[BigTex]

I wasn't impressed with their D.

They held Dallas' offense to 283 yards and 20 points.So, if you aren't impressed with the NE D, I assume you aren't too impressed with the Dallas O either?

Wasn't there a defensive TD and a Kick-off return for TD? Sounds like 13 points to me.Not all that bad considering Seymour is still out and they were on the road playing a team that appeared fired up.

I still believe the D is the weak link.

No question. They look soft. Indy will take a good run at them, and Dallas or GB will have a great shot if their Ds can hold up.

They played terribly tonight. However, I seem to remember them doing pretty well against Indy and Dallas the first time around. We will see.

Dallas drove the ball up and down the field. We will see. I still think that no matter how good the Dallas O is, the secondary will not be able to handle Brady and Co.Dallas would move the ball all day, as would GB.

I don't care if Dallas gets 800 yards of total offense. If they only score 20 points on offense, they are not beating the Patriots.EDIT: I just checked the box score. Dallas had 283 yards of total offense. That is hardly moving the ball up and down the field.

#1 I believe the Cowboys only had 42 plays, 283 yds only 42 when I believe their avg is about/over 60 plays a game.....hmmm#2 P. Crayton is proven to be right

#3 I now for the first time believe the Cowboys can beat the Pats and I'm not fishing.

#4 Cowboys avg over 30pts a game.

 

[zoonation]

I wasn't impressed with their D.

They held Dallas' offense to 283 yards and 20 points.So, if you aren't impressed with the NE D, I assume you aren't too impressed with the Dallas O either?

Wasn't there a defensive TD and a Kick-off return for TD? Sounds like 13 points to me.Not all that bad considering Seymour is still out and they were on the road playing a team that appeared fired up.

I still believe the D is the weak link.

No question. They look soft. Indy will take a good run at them, and Dallas or GB will have a great shot if their Ds can hold up.

They played terribly tonight. However, I seem to remember them doing pretty well against Indy and Dallas the first time around. We will see.

Dallas drove the ball up and down the field. We will see. I still think that no matter how good the Dallas O is, the secondary will not be able to handle Brady and Co.Dallas would move the ball all day, as would GB.

I don't care if Dallas gets 800 yards of total offense. If they only score 20 points on offense, they are not beating the Patriots.EDIT: I just checked the box score. Dallas had 283 yards of total offense. That is hardly moving the ball up and down the field.

#1 I believe the Cowboys only had 42 plays, 283 yds only 42 when I believe their avg is about/over 60 plays a game.....hmmm#2 P. Crayton is proven to be right

#3 I now for the first time believe the Cowboys can beat the Pats and I'm not fishing.

#4 Cowboys avg over 30pts a game.

Whathe said.The Cowboys never had the ball, which I still think will be a problem.

Cowboys O>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pats D