Credit Card Fraud (1 Viewer)

[coopersdad]

I'll explain the scenario and I'd like feedback.

1st, yes, I've already called the bank and they are investigating, but they don't know what or if they'll be able to find anything.

1 - Back in January someone tried to take a cash day loan out.  All my credit reporting agencies immediately informed me of the hard credit hit.  And based on their recommendation and everyone here I froze my credit reports. No issue since then except I occasionally I still get robo calls/texts letting me know that my loan application has been approved and I just need to call and approve.

Fast forward to yesterday.  I've got a relative (read into that how you may) that in the last 3 years divested themselves from our house and has made a SERIES of bad financial and employment decisions.  So much so that they missed their son's last HS baseball playoff game last week, because they were fighting with their parents over $.

2 - So yesterday I get a letter in the mail from a bank that was used to use a long time ago (25 years or so) which just happens to be in this persons home town letting me know that my application for a credit card has been denied due to the fact that my credit reports are frozen (yeah!!!!! the system works).

If this was true random "fraud" how would applying for a new CC help them....that card is going to get delivered to my address (hence the letter being delivered to my house.  So they would not have access to the new card or number, unless they get the card from my mailbox.

Ergo I add all the circumstantial evidence together and it leads me to believe that this person either applied for a CC in my name, or with me as a co-applicant knowing that my 8## credit score would get the card.  

Before I talk to this person, I just want to make sure that there is nothing that I'm missing.

Appreciate it.   

 

[Jobber]

Having gone through an identity theft (of my wife’s identity) a few years back, I’m sorrry you’re going through this. I have no advice to give from the family standpoint. 
 

But since this person obviously knows your SSN, mothers maiden name, etc you should immediately (like freaking yesterday) go to the Social Security website and create your login of you haven’t already. This person could VERY easily use your SS benefits with that information. And you’d be screwed.

 

[BrutalPenguin]

Don't be so sure the new credit card comes to your house.  A year or so ago, someone managed to add a "delivery address" or some such to my CC account and request a new card.  When I got the email about the new card, I pulled up my account information and removed the address, cancelled the card, and reported everything to the fraud department.  2 months later I got an email informing me that someone may have tried to get a new card on my account.  Geniuses they are....

 

[coopersdad]

Don't be so sure the new credit card comes to your house.  A year or so ago, someone managed to add a "delivery address" or some such to my CC account and request a new card.  When I got the email about the new card, I pulled up my account information and removed the address, cancelled the card, and reported everything to the fraud department.  2 months later I got an email informing me that someone may have tried to get a new card on my account.  Geniuses they are....

I just got off the phone w/ the card company.  They would not deliver the card to any address other than my current one on file (what file, I have no idea, but it has to be one that I've actively used or my last one).  Other than than he had nothing to offer.  He did say he hears of stuff like this occasionally, but could see my concern given all the circumstances. 

 

[Juxtatarot]

, or with me as a co-applicant knowing that my 8## credit score would get the card.  

As I was reading, this is what I thought. I don’t understand what they are “investigating” though. They should easily be able to tell you whether it was an individual or joint application.

 

[The Noid]

Industry SME here: you're probably right that the specific bank and location being involved points to it not being random, but unless you're wiling to file an ID Theft report with the police and indicate the relative as a potential suspect, you just need to keep doing what you're doing to protect your identity and credit from any threats, whomever they may be from.

Also, mail diversion is a pretty common tactic. If you don't already have a USPS account, sign up for one before someone else does using your info and address. That prevents someone from putting in a mail forwarding request after successfully getting a card opened using your identity. If they time it right, you only notice you haven't gotten mail for a couple days in a row by the time they already have the card in hand. 

 

[coopersdad]

Industry SME here: you're probably right that the specific bank and location being involved points to it not being random, but unless you're wiling to file an ID Theft report with the police and indicate the relative as a potential suspect, you just need to keep doing what you're doing to protect your identity and credit from any threats, whomever they may be from.

Also, mail diversion is a pretty common tactic. If you don't already have a USPS account, sign up for one before someone else does using your info and address. That prevents someone from putting in a mail forwarding request after successfully getting a card opened using your identity. If they time it right, you only notice you haven't gotten mail for a couple days in a row by the time they already have the card in hand. 

Already have one of those.  Appreciate it.

 

[BigJim®]

If this was true random "fraud" how would applying for a new CC help them....that card is going to get delivered to my address (hence the letter being delivered to my house.  So they would not have access to the new card or number, unless they get the card from my mailbox.

I would not assume the applicant intended for the card to come to your address, or this notification for that matter. Under credit freeze rules, the bank is allowed to treat an application as an incomplete application - which still requires the bank to send a notice to the applicant (the letter you received). For credit freeze, I suspect the bureau communicates address discrepancy to the bank along with the credit freeze status. In a bureau freeze mismatch, I'd think it makes more sense for the bank to send this notice to the address used to create the bureau freeze than continue interacting with a suspected fraudster at a different address.

I'd request a copy of the application. Have you alerted authorities in that area? Probably the better path to figuring out identity of your fraudster vs confronting someone you are not sure about.

 

[The Noid]

I suspect the bureau communicates address discrepancy to the bank along with the credit freeze status. In a bureau freeze mismatch, I'd think it makes more sense for the bank to send this notice to the address used to create the bureau freeze than continue interacting with a suspected fraudster at a different address.

Credit freeze does not allow the bank to get anything back. It's a cold denial of the request itself from the bureau. So the bank has no idea what address the bureau has or doesn't have to match to. The bank sends the notice to the address used on the application as a courtesy, and in an attempt to still book the account (in case the true person did apply and just forgot they had the credit freeze enabled.) 

Also, requests for info from the application, the application itself, etc. are usually not granted and only provided to law enforcement after a direct request from the LE agency, or a subpoena. The bank wants no part of A) potential liability where you see a signature you recognize or info on there, like an email, that causes you to identify and drive to the perpetrators house and dole out some vigilante justice and B) the potential release of PII to the wrong party (a denied app usually means you're not their customer and they have no way to verify you are who you say; it's why victims are pointed to the CBR agencies to take any actions.)

 

[Sand]

Don't be so sure the new credit card comes to your house.  A year or so ago, someone managed to add a "delivery address" or some such to my CC account and request a new card.  When I got the email about the new card, I pulled up my account information and removed the address, cancelled the card, and reported everything to the fraud department.  2 months later I got an email informing me that someone may have tried to get a new card on my account.  Geniuses they are....

Not totally related, but I had someone use my Walmart account (with saved CC) to buy a TV out in Arizona.  Walmart refused to cancel the order.

So I went in and changed the first name of the person receiving it to "####### Thief" and the last to "Please Arrest Me".

I always wonder what that scene looked up when that joker showed up to collect his TV.  I really appreciate Walmart having space for loooong names.

 

[BigJim®]

Credit freeze does not allow the bank to get anything back. It's a cold denial of the request itself from the bureau. So the bank has no idea what address the bureau has or doesn't have to match to. The bank sends the notice to the address used on the application as a courtesy, and in an attempt to still book the account (in case the true person did apply and just forgot they had the credit freeze enabled.) 

Also, requests for info from the application, the application itself, etc. are usually not granted and only provided to law enforcement after a direct request from the LE agency, or a subpoena. The bank wants no part of A) potential liability where you see a signature you recognize or info on there, like an email, that causes you to identify and drive to the perpetrators house and dole out some vigilante justice and B) the potential release of PII to the wrong party (a denied app usually means you're not their customer and they have no way to verify you are who you say; it's why victims are pointed to the CBR agencies to take any actions.)

Thanks for the info. What you say makes sense if credit freeze creates a brick wall. It's a bit inconsistent with Red Flags/ID Theft/Fraud Alert/Address Discrepancy rules though, in that it does not seems to allow a would-be victim awareness of fraud efforts if a bank sends notice that the jig is up directly to a fraudster (which they must do), and no other action occurs.

On application requests - you're describing a lot of wagon-circling which does a victim no good. That's why I mentioned alerting the authorities. This is a crime, and I don't think OP confronting a suspected wrongdoer is the best approach. If the bank says no because it is protecting its own interest, then authorities should be engaged to subpoena the application investigating the crime.

 

[The Noid]

Red Flags/ID Theft/Fraud Alert/Address Discrepancy

Right, but most of that applies to the customers of a bank. Fraud Alert requirements are the only ones a bank has to have in place for non/pre customers. 

Initial Fraud Alert - Creditor is given a notification that you have been a victim before; creditor is required to use that in their review and decision according to their own policies and procedures (the application can still get approved without any outreach from the creditor)

Extended Fraud Alert - Creditor is given a notification that they cannot proceed with granting credit unless they make contact with the victim at the specified contact number contained in the alert to confirm the application was legitimate

 

[BigJim®]

Right, but most of that applies to the customers of a bank. Fraud Alert requirements are the only ones a bank has to have in place for non/pre customers. 

I mean, you may be right here - it's a very niche area, but address discrepancy is a general rule for any user, presumptively including application for credit permissible purpose. Red flags rule specifically contemplates recognizing known fraudulent addresses on credit applications - which a bank will never know if 10 applications under a fraudster address all hit a brick wall and disappear from sight. I just don't see how identity theft is being combatted if the outcome is notifying the fraudster they need to move on to a new victim because this one is protected, while banks and bureaus stick their head in sand. 

 

[Juxtatarot]

I just don't see how identity theft is being combatted if the outcome is notifying the fraudster they need to move on to a new victim because this one is protected, while banks and bureaus stick their head in sand. 

I’m not sure how much it matters. In the end we’d need law enforcement to go after the fraudsters which they mostly don’t have the resources, expertise, or the will to do.  

Financial  institutions and consumers need to protect themselves.

 

[BigJim®]

I’m not sure how much it matters. In the end we’d need law enforcement to go after the fraudsters which they mostly don’t have the resources, expertise, or the will to do.  

Financial  institutions and consumers need to protect themselves.

For the most part I agree. It sounds like this is irrelevant to OP so I won't digress further - other than to say if we want to take identity theft seriously, we need to do better than having a zero consequence mechanism to notify Joe Fraudster at his fraudulent address that this victim is no good because of a bureau freeze, and leaving it at that. It's almost worse than doing nothing, JMHO.

 

[Chadstroma]

Most of my entire career has been in financial services including a couple of years working for a large banks fraud prevention department. 

I always found it funny (not ha ha funny but intriguing) that people were so worried about internet and email etc but have no concern about snail mail. It is so much easier to commit fraud from snail mail. Back when I was working in that space the vast majority of fraud we could source where it came from was snail mail. I never saw a single case from electronic means. That being said, things have certainly changed over the 20 years (dang I am getting old) and pretty much everyone's info is compromised in one way or not and the dark web is full of exchanges of buying social security numbers, credit card numbers, full identities, etc from electronic or otherwise means. 

A police report and suggesting the relative as a person of interest in that with the willingness to press charges is going to be your only real route of doing anything. The bank will spend resources to do very much. It sounds like there was no loss and banks typically have thresholds of tens of thousands before they will spend the resources to really go anything about fraud. 

Any way you go, I would strongly recommend getting ID Theft protection. There is so much more than can be done that freezing your credit bureaus will not stop and you could still be a victim. A good ID Theft protection gives you more protection and also the coverage with insurance and resources to take care of anything that does happen. I do a lot of Financial Coaching and it is one of the things I recommend for pretty much everyone but think it is an automatic thing for someone in similar situation as you where there are issues or have been a victim etc. Lifelock is the most well known one, I use MyScoreIQ https://www.myscoreiq.com/get-fico-max.aspx?offercode=4321225F There are others. I would spend the time to figure out which one you want to do and spend the money to protect yourself. 

 

[Chadstroma]

Thanks for the info. What you say makes sense if credit freeze creates a brick wall. It's a bit inconsistent with Red Flags/ID Theft/Fraud Alert/Address Discrepancy rules though, in that it does not seems to allow a would-be victim awareness of fraud efforts if a bank sends notice that the jig is up directly to a fraudster (which they must do), and no other action occurs.

On application requests - you're describing a lot of wagon-circling which does a victim no good. That's why I mentioned alerting the authorities. This is a crime, and I don't think OP confronting a suspected wrongdoer is the best approach. If the bank says no because it is protecting its own interest, then authorities should be engaged to subpoena the application investigating the crime.

It is all a numbers game for the banks. No loss? They don't care. $XXX amount of loss? Cost of doing business. $XXXXXXX loss, ok, let's spend the resources to go after them. 

Even more so when it is a relative. I don't know how many times I had people come in to do a fraud report for transactions and tell me that it was whatever relative and then they didn't want to file a report and press charges. 

 

[mlbnfl]

Hey everyone not exactly the same topic but how does one understand why a credit score would drop with, as far as I can tell, nothing update. No changes of any kind found yet a fairly staggering drop (minus 51). If i call equifax will someone be able to give me a straight answer?

 

[The Noid]

Hey everyone not exactly the same topic but how does one understand why a credit score would drop with, as far as I can tell, nothing update. No changes of any kind found yet a fairly staggering drop (minus 51). If i call equifax will someone be able to give me a straight answer?

Good luck getting anything close to what the "secret sauce" is from any of the bureaus. Inactivity or little utilization of your outstanding available credit can be a factor. There are many non-intuitive things like that being used in their algorithms. But, 51 points is pretty big for there not to have been something. Maybe an old/unused card you had got closed by the issuer or had its credit line decreased? If you haven't checked your actual Equifax bureau to confirm nothing is new/changed (recent inquires, or even newly opened accounts, you weren't aware of?), that will probably be your best bet to maybe find an answer. 

 

[Juxtatarot]

Hey everyone not exactly the same topic but how does one understand why a credit score would drop with, as far as I can tell, nothing update. No changes of any kind found yet a fairly staggering drop (minus 51). If i call equifax will someone be able to give me a straight answer?

Is it the same credit score model?  51 points is a lot, especially if you have well established credit.

 

[Chadstroma]

Hey everyone not exactly the same topic but how does one understand why a credit score would drop with, as far as I can tell, nothing update. No changes of any kind found yet a fairly staggering drop (minus 51). If i call equifax will someone be able to give me a straight answer?

First, what are you looking at? Credit Karma/Credit Sesame? A bank/credit card monitoring? A paid monitoring service? 

There is no way to answer the question to be honest. Something changed. A closed credit card? Paid off loan? A new collection? Higher utilization from using your cards more? A new credit card/loan? Those are the most common possibilities.

 

[Chadstroma]

Hey everyone not exactly the same topic but how does one understand why a credit score would drop with, as far as I can tell, nothing update. No changes of any kind found yet a fairly staggering drop (minus 51). If i call equifax will someone be able to give me a straight answer?

Calling Experian will be wasting time. 

 

[DA RAIDERS]

PSA: stay on top of your CCs. wife got a text alert that we thought was BS. called the CC company. it was not. new card being issued.

 

[Snotbubbles]

PSA: stay on top of your CCs. wife got a text alert that we thought was BS. called the CC company. it was not. new card being issued.

Just max your CCs out. Then you won't have to worry about CC fraud.

Stayed tuned for more financial tips.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

PSA: stay on top of your CCs. wife got a text alert that we thought was BS. called the CC company. it was not. new card being issued.

Just max your CCs out. Then you won't have to worry about CC fraud.

Stayed tuned for more financial tips.

I haven’t used that card since last May. Very strange.

 

[Dan Lambskin]

Wife’s kohls account got hacked someone made an in store purchase (assume via mobile app)

Took several weeks to get it resolved but they finally did

 

[Da Guru]

This is crazy. In the last year we have had our CCs compromised 4 times. In the last 10 years maybe 7-8 times total. Twice in the last month.

Get a call, text and email yesterday from Citi Fraud alert asking if I am renting a limo in San Fran for 870.00 dollars as it was declined, but the did get almost 500 dollars worth of booze and stuff before the decline. We had only used that card at Costco, CVS and a restaurant in the last week,

Every time we had possession of our cards too. If that has happened to one couple that many times what is going on around the country?

 

[Dan Lambskin]

I think it’s getting pretty easy for people to get your login / password from one site and then trying it at multiple sites until they get a hit. Especially if you have any kind of mobile pay linked to your app

 

[Hastur]

This is crazy. In the last year we have had our CCs compromised 4 times. In the last 10 years maybe 7-8 times total. Twice in the last month.

Get a call, text and email yesterday from Citi Fraud alert asking if I am renting a limo in San Fran for 870.00 dollars as it was declined, but the did get almost 500 dollars worth of booze and stuff before the decline. We had only used that card at Costco, CVS and a restaurant in the last week,

Every time we had possession of our cards too. If that has happened to one couple that many times what is going on around the country?

not doubting you, but think: At restaurants, you usually give the card to a waiter, and they leave with it and return a few minutes later with the paper to sign. Did this happen? Was it out of your hands even for 30 seconds? That is all it takes sometimes.

 

[Juxtatarot]

This is crazy. In the last year we have had our CCs compromised 4 times. In the last 10 years maybe 7-8 times total. Twice in the last month.

Get a call, text and email yesterday from Citi Fraud alert asking if I am renting a limo in San Fran for 870.00 dollars as it was declined, but the did get almost 500 dollars worth of booze and stuff before the decline. We had only used that card at Costco, CVS and a restaurant in the last week,

Every time we had possession of our cards too. If that has happened to one couple that many times what is going on around the country?

Coming from someone who works in the industry, your experience is an extreme statistical outlier.

 

[Dezbelief]

This is crazy. In the last year we have had our CCs compromised 4 times. In the last 10 years maybe 7-8 times total. Twice in the last month.

Get a call, text and email yesterday from Citi Fraud alert asking if I am renting a limo in San Fran for 870.00 dollars as it was declined, but the did get almost 500 dollars worth of booze and stuff before the decline. We had only used that card at Costco, CVS and a restaurant in the last week,

Every time we had possession of our cards too. If that has happened to one couple that many times what is going on around the country?

Coming from someone who works in the industry, your experience is an extreme statistical outlier.

Almost like he's being targeted.

 

[culdeus]

The ones that confuse me are the Facebook charges for like $1. Why can't this crap get flagged?

 

[Sand]

This is crazy. In the last year we have had our CCs compromised 4 times. In the last 10 years maybe 7-8 times total. Twice in the last month.

Get a call, text and email yesterday from Citi Fraud alert asking if I am renting a limo in San Fran for 870.00 dollars as it was declined, but the did get almost 500 dollars worth of booze and stuff before the decline. We had only used that card at Costco, CVS and a restaurant in the last week,

Every time we had possession of our cards too. If that has happened to one couple that many times what is going on around the country?

Coming from someone who works in the industry, your experience is an extreme statistical outlier.

Just had my debit/check card compromised. No idea how - card never left my wallet, hasn't been used in months. They certainly didn't get access through the front door, which I have all my logins locked down tight. They were sending out money through Boss Revolution - I guess funding international calls?

No idea how they got the number, much less everything else to use it.

 

[culdeus]

This is crazy. In the last year we have had our CCs compromised 4 times. In the last 10 years maybe 7-8 times total. Twice in the last month.

Get a call, text and email yesterday from Citi Fraud alert asking if I am renting a limo in San Fran for 870.00 dollars as it was declined, but the did get almost 500 dollars worth of booze and stuff before the decline. We had only used that card at Costco, CVS and a restaurant in the last week,

Every time we had possession of our cards too. If that has happened to one couple that many times what is going on around the country?

Coming from someone who works in the industry, your experience is an extreme statistical outlier.

Just had my debit/check card compromised. No idea how - card never left my wallet, hasn't been used in months. They certainly didn't get access through the front door, which I have all my logins locked down tight. They were sending out money through Boss Revolution - I guess funding international calls?

No idea how they got the number, much less everything else to use it.

Feel like some of this has to be inside jobs

 

[belljr]

This is crazy. In the last year we have had our CCs compromised 4 times. In the last 10 years maybe 7-8 times total. Twice in the last month.

Get a call, text and email yesterday from Citi Fraud alert asking if I am renting a limo in San Fran for 870.00 dollars as it was declined, but the did get almost 500 dollars worth of booze and stuff before the decline. We had only used that card at Costco, CVS and a restaurant in the last week,

Every time we had possession of our cards too. If that has happened to one couple that many times what is going on around the country?

Coming from someone who works in the industry, your experience is an extreme statistical outlier.

Just had my debit/check card compromised. No idea how - card never left my wallet, hasn't been used in months. They certainly didn't get access through the front door, which I have all my logins locked down tight. They were sending out money through Boss Revolution - I guess funding international calls?

No idea how they got the number, much less everything else to use it.

Feel like some of this has to be inside jobs

I posted a thread a while back. My daughter had her TD debit card for about 2 months and never used it, it got hacked and I met 2 people at the bank straightening it out that had the same exact thing happened

 

[Sand]

This is crazy. In the last year we have had our CCs compromised 4 times. In the last 10 years maybe 7-8 times total. Twice in the last month.

Get a call, text and email yesterday from Citi Fraud alert asking if I am renting a limo in San Fran for 870.00 dollars as it was declined, but the did get almost 500 dollars worth of booze and stuff before the decline. We had only used that card at Costco, CVS and a restaurant in the last week,

Every time we had possession of our cards too. If that has happened to one couple that many times what is going on around the country?

Coming from someone who works in the industry, your experience is an extreme statistical outlier.

Just had my debit/check card compromised. No idea how - card never left my wallet, hasn't been used in months. They certainly didn't get access through the front door, which I have all my logins locked down tight. They were sending out money through Boss Revolution - I guess funding international calls?

No idea how they got the number, much less everything else to use it.

Feel like some of this has to be inside jobs

Seems likely. When you combine that with stuff like sim swap conspiracies you have to be super careful. I have a password manager with 2FA and any login into my financial stuff also with 2FA. I'm hoping that stops sim swap attacks, which are my biggest fear.

 

[Juxtatarot]

This is crazy. In the last year we have had our CCs compromised 4 times. In the last 10 years maybe 7-8 times total. Twice in the last month.

Get a call, text and email yesterday from Citi Fraud alert asking if I am renting a limo in San Fran for 870.00 dollars as it was declined, but the did get almost 500 dollars worth of booze and stuff before the decline. We had only used that card at Costco, CVS and a restaurant in the last week,

Every time we had possession of our cards too. If that has happened to one couple that many times what is going on around the country?

Coming from someone who works in the industry, your experience is an extreme statistical outlier.

Just had my debit/check card compromised. No idea how - card never left my wallet, hasn't been used in months. They certainly didn't get access through the front door, which I have all my logins locked down tight. They were sending out money through Boss Revolution - I guess funding international calls?

No idea how they got the number, much less everything else to use it.

Excluding cardholders directly giving their card info to fraudsters (which I assume you didn’t do), the compromise often these days is from online merchants who get hacked. It’s not always recent transactions. Exposure window can be a year or more old.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

This is crazy. In the last year we have had our CCs compromised 4 times. In the last 10 years maybe 7-8 times total. Twice in the last month.

Get a call, text and email yesterday from Citi Fraud alert asking if I am renting a limo in San Fran for 870.00 dollars as it was declined, but the did get almost 500 dollars worth of booze and stuff before the decline. We had only used that card at Costco, CVS and a restaurant in the last week,

Every time we had possession of our cards too. If that has happened to one couple that many times what is going on around the country?

Coming from someone who works in the industry, your experience is an extreme statistical outlier.

Just had my debit/check card compromised. No idea how - card never left my wallet, hasn't been used in months. They certainly didn't get access through the front door, which I have all my logins locked down tight. They were sending out money through Boss Revolution - I guess funding international calls?

No idea how they got the number, much less everything else to use it.

Excluding cardholders directly giving their card info to fraudsters (which I assume you didn’t do), the compromise often these days is from online merchants who get hacked. It’s not always recent transactions. Exposure window can be a year or more old.

I’ve only been compromised once. And it was on a CC that I hadn’t used since last May and barely used it all before that. I only got it for the miles bonus.