Cutler will not report on Monday (1 Viewer)

[charlatan]

I agree that he throws into coverages too often sometimes. In a sense, he is like Brett Favre in that he has almost too much confidence in his arms, to the point where he makes throws that he shouldn't. As for his on-the-field demeanor, I think that is overrated. Heck, Peyton Manning still hangs his head and gives that "aw, shucks" look following an INT or dropped pass, and I don't see anyone challenging his maturity. I also saw Kurt Warner getting aggravated at a few dropped passes last year, too. There is definitely a point where it can be too much, but Cutler is still maturing as an NFL QB and should get better at displaying such annoyances, most likely.

Fair enough. It is true that everyone out there is competetive by nature and many of them get upset at calls. I guess my point is that it effects Cutler, IMHO, differently than Manning or Warner. He doesn't move on, and his performance suffers as a result. Manning and players of his ilk brush it off and move on to the next play.I think some people in the game that are wired in such a way that allows them to perform very well under both pressure and adversity. Based on what I have seen, I am fairly confident that JC does not fit that mold.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I agree that he throws into coverages too often sometimes. In a sense, he is like Brett Favre in that he has almost too much confidence in his arms, to the point where he makes throws that he shouldn't. As for his on-the-field demeanor, I think that is overrated. Heck, Peyton Manning still hangs his head and gives that "aw, shucks" look following an INT or dropped pass, and I don't see anyone challenging his maturity. I also saw Kurt Warner getting aggravated at a few dropped passes last year, too. There is definitely a point where it can be too much, but Cutler is still maturing as an NFL QB and should get better at displaying such annoyances, most likely.

This is pretty much my opinion of Cutler on the field as well. I think the demeanor stuff is overrated; part of being a great player in any sport is the ability to shake off mistakes. When Rivers makes a mistake and yells at himself, people say he's "too fiery", with Cutler he's "not fiery enough". Who cares. If I'm starting a franchise, Cutler is one of the top 5 QBs in the NFL right now.But this off the field stuff is ridiculous. Man's game, and those with thin skin will always have problems. I have to believe that Cutler wants out of Denver for a multitude of reasons, b/c getting this bent over the new HC wanting to bring in his guy is insane.

 

[thatguy]

Now I just want to punch Jay in the face. Before it was McDaniels. Now it's Jay. What a ####.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Not really. If anyone is acting bigger than the franchise, it's Cutler.

Funny, how all the San Diego supporters come out and start circling like a bunch of turkey vultures. It is such a big surprise when you start placing all the blame on Cutler's shoulders.

As enjoyable as this epic meltdown is for SD homers like myself, I have to admit I've actually been looking fwd to the next 5-6 years of watching Culter and Rivers battle for AFC West supremacy. In the end, it's all theater anyway, and I'd rather watch an exciting gunslinger twice a year even if it means my Chargers face a stiffer test.I'm blown away by how this has evolved.

 

[Gr00vus]

So management tries to replace a high performing employee with some other guy, who hasn't performed as well but they really like, without telling him.

Employee hears rumor of this, asks management if it's true.

Management says its not true.

Employee gets confirmation from others that it is true, asks management if it's true again.

Management this time admits its true.

Management has also embarked on completely changing the system you work in, which had been highly successful.

Management has also informed other coworkers, who the employee works very well with, that they're no longer wanted.

Management also says employee is fungible and they will replace him when they feel like it regardless of his performance.

In summary, dealing in somewhat bad faith, lying, no expression of valuing the employee, and apparently poor decision making on behalf of the management. If I'm employee, I'm looking for another job, immediately.

Problem is, employee can't do that in the NFL - the best they can do is hold out and/or get traded. Using the media as a tool in pursuit of finding a better situation for the employee is in the employee's best interest.

That's the game, Cutler's playing it.

Bronco management really screwed this up. I figured McDaniels ( at all the pat fans defending this guy in the thread) would be another failed ex-pat head coach - I didn't think it would be this obvious this quickly.

Cutler is going to be a successful, franchise QB in the NFL for good while. McDaniels will be fired in 2 to 3 years. Bronco fans are going to be the ones who get the shaft here.

PS. I'm a Charger fan, so the thought of Cutler leaving the division and probably the conference makes me very, very happy.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Management has also embarked on completely changing the system you work in, which had been highly successful.

17-20 is "highly successful"????

 

[thesurfshop19]

Management has also embarked on completely changing the system you work in, which had been highly successful.

17-20 is "highly successful"????

Hey, he's 16-16 against teams not named the Chargers!

 

[Ghost Rider]

Management has also embarked on completely changing the system you work in, which had been highly successful.

17-20 is "highly successful"????

The Broncos offense is a system that has been highly successful for them over the past 14 years. In those 14 years, they have ranked in the top 10 in total offense 10 times, and the top 10 in scoring 10 times. To raise the bar, they have finished in the top 5 in total offense 9 times, and the top 5 in scoring 4 times. I would call that highly successful.

 

[Banger]

Management has also embarked on completely changing the system you work in, which had been highly successful.

17-20 is "highly successful"????

how could any team be successful with that defense over the past few seasons....8-8 was a minor miracle last year. The records of the teams as bad or worse than they were defensively were...Raiders (5-11)Rams (2-14)Broncos (8-8)Seattle (4-12)KC (2-14)Det (0-16)which one of these does not belong?

 

[massraider]

So management tries to replace a high performing employee with some other guy, who hasn't performed as well but they really like, without telling him.Employee hears rumor of this, asks management if it's true.Management says its not true.Employee gets confirmation from others that it is true, asks management if it's true again.Management this time admits its true.Management has also embarked on completely changing the system you work in, which had been highly successful.Management has also informed other coworkers, who the employee works very well with, that they're no longer wanted.Management also says employee is fungible and they will replace him when they feel like it regardless of his performance.In summary, dealing in somewhat bad faith, lying, no expression of valuing the employee, and apparently poor decision making on behalf of the management. If I'm employee, I'm looking for another job, immediately.Problem is, employee can't do that in the NFL - the best they can do is hold out and/or get traded. Using the media as a tool in pursuit of finding a better situation for the employee is in the employee's best interest.That's the game, Cutler's playing it. Bronco management really screwed this up. I figured McDaniels ( at all the pat fans defending this guy in the thread) would be another failed ex-pat head coach - I didn't think it would be this obvious this quickly.Cutler is going to be a successful, franchise QB in the NFL for good while. McDaniels will be fired in 2 to 3 years. Bronco fans are going to be the ones who get the shaft here.PS. I'm a Charger fan, so the thought of Cutler leaving the division and probably the conference makes me very, very happy.

This is pretty close to my thoughts.It is pretty obvious that Cutler could have handled this better, but he isn't, so the Broncos need to handle it. Your QB is immature? Well, they should have known that, and known he maybe wouldn't like Cassell rumors. Whether or not Cutler is being a 'man' about this is irrelevant. Further, Cutler manning up and swallowing his pride and being a good soldier only benefits the Broncos, no necessarily Cutler. Does he have to re-establish his leadership in the huddle, as his teammates might rightly wonder why they should listen to him if the coach didn't even want him?And if he does play good soldier, who's to say this doesn't happen again next year? Maybe the Broncos draft someone. No, Cutler is using the leverage he has. Squeaky wheel gets the grease.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

This situation is fascinating for me because of the different factions of people on this board supporting one thing or another. You have the Cutler owners (who are generally pro-Cutler), you have the SD/Rivers fans (who are pretty much anti-Cutler), you have the NE fans (who are pretty much pro-McDaniels) and you have GB/Favre fans (who are pretty much anti-Bus Cook). It's like we need a program so we can understand where each poster is coming from, LOL.

Yes, I had some of those same thoughts myself. (What's also interesting is that there's no "Broncos fan view" -- they are split. Personally, if I were a Bronco fan, I'd agree with charlatan's take, but his view seems to be in the slight minority among Bronco fans on this board.)As a Charger fan, I am in favor of having Jay Cutler stay in Denver. He's got a career passer rating of around 77 against the Chargers; I'd hate to see him go. He's got a tremendous arm and excellent overall athleticism, but I really don't think he's mature enough to be an effective team leader, which is important in a QB. I think he sets the Broncos back in their Super Bowl quest more than he helps them. I'm not saying that the Broncos (or any other team) would not be able to win with him at QB. If they fix the defense, they can win with Cutler. But I think they'd win more games with a QB who had only a decent arm (and otherwise good QB skills) but a good attitude, as opposed to a great arm with a poor attitude.

As a Lions fan, I don't want the Lions to trade for Cutler.

This McDaniels vs. Cutler discussion also reminds me of the Beathard vs. Leaf issue we had in San Diego a while back. If a player fails to live up to his potential because, despite being talented, he acts immaturely . . . is it the GM's fault for failing to foresee that the player would be immature, or is it the player's fault for actually being immature?

I think the answer is both. I think Beathard rightly received a lot of criticism for making the biggest draft-day blunder in the history of the league. But ultimately I'd assign even more of the blame to the guy who is being immature than to the person who failed to adequately foresee it. In this case, I guess McDaniels is rightly to blame for doing something to cause Cutler to throw a tantrum; but I still think Cutler is even more to blame for actually throwing it.

 

[thesurfshop19]

To raise the bar, they have finished in the top 5 in total offense 9 times, and the top 5 in scoring 4 times.

Not to hijack, but I always wondered why post-Elway, the Broncos seemed to be better in the yardage rankings than the points rankings. I mean I guess the obvious answer is red zone offense & defense.http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/

In 2002, 2003, and 2004, they were #1 in the league in yards differential, yet they were 0-2 in the playoffs over that span. I guess Brian Griese & Jake Plummer plays a part.

Back to your regularly scheduled discussion.

 

[Ben Stiller]

I think Rick Reilly is dead on here.

Rick Reilly -Go Fish

LAST UPDATED 03.16.09

Denver Broncos QB Jay Cutler is getting jerked around like a Shetland Pony at a six-year-old's birthday party.

Just to recap: Incredible young talent leads team to second-rated offense in the league last year. Has seven 300-plus yard games and one 400-plus yarder. Does it all while going through seven different running backs and a defense with more holes than a Tyler Perry plot. Makes the Pro Bowl. Becomes the leader of the team.

Then his coach gets fired. Then the guy calling his plays leaves town. Then he finds out his new coach -- a 32-year-old rookie -- is shopping him for a trade. In the NFL, if you're thinking of shopping your star, you better not get caught.

But the Rookie got caught.

Only The Rookie lies about it -- says he was only "listening to offers." Then, in a face-to-face with Cutler, the coach flip-flops. Says, "Yes, we were trying to trade you, so what?" Cutler gets torqued and says so. The world starts calling Cutler a "baby" and reminds him that "this is a business."

But now Cutler sees he's not wanted, can't trust his coach and is no longer the leader in his teammates' eyes. So his career is suddenly dropping like GE stock. His ability to perform has been shredded. So he says, "Trade me," and now he's spoiled? He needs to shut up and take it? How come it's a business for everybody but Cutler?

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/reillygofish

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I don't think it's surprising at all. The coach is showing up for work; the QB isn't. The QB is being a baby; the coach isn't. If I were Bowlen, it wouldn't take me more than a millisecond to throw my support behind McDaniels.I really can't understand why any Broncos fans would take Cutler's side in this. If this saga runs Cutler out of town, it's because he lacks the maturity and mentality to be a successful team leader. In which case McDaniels is doing the franchise a big favor.JMHO.

Do you ever not side with management?

Of course.I disagreed with the Cowboys' management when they signed T.O. I currently disagree with the Bills' management for the same reason.I disagreed with the Jets' management when they signed Favre.I disagreed with the Raiders' management when they signed Javon Walker to such a huge contract.I will disagree with the Broncos' management if they can get a first-rounder for Cutler but end up keeping him instead.I often disagree with the management of NFL teams.

None of those things are examples of siding with players in management/player disputes. I believe that's what the question was about.

I'm having trouble coming up with a list of management-player disputes.The ones I can think of . . .Eagles vs. T.O. -- I sided with management.Titans vs. McNair -- I sided with McNair.Packers vs. Favre -- I sided with management.What are some others?

 

[Jason Wood]

Management has also embarked on completely changing the system you work in, which had been highly successful.

17-20 is "highly successful"????

TGunz,Do you genuinely believe the measure of a QB's success is his team's W-L record? Because if that's how QB's are going to be judged by the public and historians, were I the next great QB-in-waiting, I would insist on a clause in my contract that entitles me to hire/fire the team's defensive and special teams coordinators. I know you've seen some of Cutler's worst performances as a Chargers fan, but you're a super smart dude who I love debating in these threads and have to ask, in all honesty, do you really not think Cutler has been successful? To my mind he's done just about as much as a guy in his position can do. Is he the best? No. But is he one of a handful of young passers in the NFL I would see building a team around? Absolutely.

 

[Addai's Adidas]

I hope the Lions trade their second first round pick for Cutler and Denver's second. Or, trade your #1 pick in the draft for Cutler and all of Denver's 1st and second round picks.

 

[massraider]

I think Rick Reilly is dead on here.

How come it's a business for everybody but Cutler?

Exactly.

 

[Banger]

Management has also embarked on completely changing the system you work in, which had been highly successful.

17-20 is "highly successful"????

TGunz,Do you genuinely believe the measure of a QB's success is his team's W-L record? Because if that's how QB's are going to be judged by the public and historians, were I the next great QB-in-waiting, I would insist on a clause in my contract that entitles me to hire/fire the team's defensive and special teams coordinators. I know you've seen some of Cutler's worst performances as a Chargers fan, but you're a super smart dude who I love debating in these threads and have to ask, in all honesty, do you really not think Cutler has been successful? To my mind he's done just about as much as a guy in his position can do. Is he the best? No. But is he one of a handful of young passers in the NFL I would see building a team around? Absolutely.

I'd consider myself a Charger fan and I'd probably take Cutler over every QB not named Peyton/Brady and maybe Rothlisberger if I were building a franchise.

 

[meanjoegreen]

I'd consider myself a Charger fan and I'd probably take Cutler over every QB not named Peyton/Brady and maybe Rothlisberger if I were building a franchise.

You would take a QB with a lousy attitude and poor leadership skills over Drew Brees? I would rather have Brees or Philip Rivers over Cutler.

 

[Banger]

I'd consider myself a Charger fan and I'd probably take Cutler over every QB not named Peyton/Brady and maybe Rothlisberger if I were building a franchise.

You would take a QB with a lousy attitude and poor leadership skills over Drew Brees? I would rather have Brees or Philip Rivers over Cutler.

I don't agree that he has a lousy attitude and have seen nothing that he lacks leadership skills. I think he's got a higher upside than Rivers and I also like Brees but due to the age I'd take Cutler. Even still we're debating the top 5-6 QB's in the game.

 

[cstu]

PS. I'm a Charger fan, so the thought of Cutler leaving the division and probably the conference makes me very, very happy.

 

[unckeyherb]

I think Rick Reilly is dead on here.

How come it's a business for everybody but Cutler?

Exactly.

+1

 

[flutieflakes]

Hey, we will take him in Buffalo. Him and T.O. wil be great together!

 

[Stealthycat]

Since Elway has Denver treated any players well ?

Any ?

 

[Banger]

Since Elway has Denver treated any players well ?Any ?

Rod Smith.

 

[bcr8f]

I'd consider myself a Charger fan and I'd probably take Cutler over every QB not named Peyton/Brady and maybe Rothlisberger if I were building a franchise.

You would take a QB with a lousy attitude and poor leadership skills over Drew Brees? I would rather have Brees or Philip Rivers over Cutler.

Show me where he has a lousy attitude that isn't gossip.

 

[BoltBacker]

do you really not think Cutler has been successful? To my mind he's done just about as much as a guy in his position can do. Is he the best? No. But is he one of a handful of young passers in the NFL I would see building a team around? Absolutely.

I won't speak for gunz but I will say that he's been far more successful from a fantasy standpoint than a football standpoint. I don't think fans are simply looking at his W-L record in tempering their enthusiasm for Cutler. He has a lot of skill but for all that skill he was only in the middle of the pack in terms of QB rating because he threw the second most INT's in the league only to Favre. I know, I know..... now we're supposed to throw out both his W-L ranking and his QB rating when evaluating him. So other than team success or personal statistics he's great. There are plenty that want to jump on the INT's and say the only reason he had so many of them is because he attempted so many passes.... but if that's true than shouldn't we also ding his TD's because he had so many attempts?Lastly, it all depends on what you think of him in the first place. The fantasy community is in love with him because he gets so many attempts he racks up stats and ESPN loves him because he throws a very pretty deep spiral on highlights but it's hardly been proven yet that he belongs in the company of a top-5 QB and that's where some people insist on putting him. Maybe one day, but right now? Definitely not imo. Based on more than just W-L record.You know Steve Bartowski(sp?) threw one hell of a deep pass. Definitely a better deep pass than Joe Montana.

 

[twistd]

Not a shocker. But what WAS a shocker was his face-to-face meeting with the head coach yesterday and it supposedly didn't go well. I thought things would at least simmer down a bit and would eventually go away...

Interesting...I hadn't heard that they met in person. If they did meet after that conference call it imo shows they're at least trying to mend fences.

Pat Bowlen supporting the coach over the QB is kind of interestinghttp://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_11919325

I don't think it's surprising at all. The coach is showing up for work; the QB isn't. The QB is being a baby; the coach isn't. If I were Bowlen, it wouldn't take me more than a millisecond to throw my support behind McDaniels.I really can't understand why any Broncos fans would take Cutler's side in this. If this saga runs Cutler out of town, it's because he lacks the maturity and mentality to be a successful team leader. In which case McDaniels is doing the franchise a big favor.

JMHO.

See if you are saying that ten years from now when the Broncos still are struggling at QB. Finding a Pro Bowl quality QB is not easy. I am a Bear fan and we would take Cutler in a heartbeat. Ask Tennessee and Arizona about what they think of Cutler compared to the QBs they picked. In Chicago we haven't had a QB of Cutler's caliber since Jim McMahon retired. And I think Cutler can turn out to be much better than McMahon. Cutler is one of the best young QBs in the game. If the Broncos manage to lose him Bronco fans will get to see how tough it is without a really good QB.

 

[omahabrad]

Please Mr. Snyder make a offer for Cutler!!!!! Give them Haynesworth!

 

[Ghost Rider]

I won't speak for gunz but I will say that he's been far more successful from a fantasy standpoint than a football standpoint. I don't think fans are simply looking at his W-L record in tempering their enthusiasm for Cutler. He has a lot of skill but for all that skill he was only in the middle of the pack in terms of QB rating because he threw the second most INT's in the league only to Favre. I know, I know..... now we're supposed to throw out both his W-L ranking and his QB rating when evaluating him. So other than team success or personal statistics he's great. There are plenty that want to jump on the INT's and say the only reason he had so many of them is because he attempted so many passes.... but if that's true than shouldn't we also ding his TD's because he had so many attempts?

It is passer rating, NOT QB rating, and it is not always a good indicator of how good a QB is. For example, Shaun Hill had a better passer rating in 2008 than Eli Manning. Also, in his first 37 starts, Cutler has thrown 37 INTs. In his first 37 starts, Peyton Manning threw 50 INTs. What does it mean? That even the best QBs sometimes have major growing pains. Am I saying Cutler is as good or will ever be as good as Manning? No, just don't please don't draw that conclusion from what I said.

 

[tdmills]

What are some teams that would trade for him?

Tenn- Collins is old and average. Plus Jay would be going home to Nashville.

Jets- They need a QB badly

Miami- They have a nucleus and Pennington isn't the answer.

Jags- But garrard did sign an extension.

Redskins- Wouldn't put it past Snyder

Chicago- But ownership is prolly too cheap

Lions- They need a guy for sure to team with Calvin

Vikings- They did just trade for Sage tho

Carolina- Possibly

TB- Young QB to team with the young coach overhaul.

STL- Bulger signed an extension....but isn't the answer

Sea- Hasselbeck isn't young

49ers- Cutler + Vernon=Harmony...lol.

 

[Chunky Soup]

What are some teams that would trade for him?Tenn- Collins is old and average. Plus Jay would be going home to Nashville.Jets- They need a QB badlyMiami- They have a nucleus and Pennington isn't the answer.Jags- But garrard did sign an extension.Redskins- Wouldn't put it past SnyderChicago- But ownership is prolly too cheapLions- They need a guy for sure to team with CalvinVikings- They did just trade for Sage thoCarolina- PossiblyTB- Young QB to team with the young coach overhaul.STL- Bulger signed an extension....but isn't the answerSea- Hasselbeck isn't young49ers- Cutler + Vernon=Harmony...lol.

It's useless to play this game. You could add so many teams here -- just like we thought Cutler's job was safe, the Broncos were looking to deal for Cassel.Anyway, for example, the Eagles and Cards could easily go in that list

 

[pollardsvision]

the solution here is pretty simple.

1-trade cutler to the lions.

2-sign jeff garcia and chris simms.

3-in a couple of years, give the bronco fans what they all would rather have instead of jay cutler anyway: young Jack Elway.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

What are some teams that would trade for him?

Tenn- Collins is old and average. Plus Jay would be going home to Nashville.

Jets- They need a QB badly

Miami- They have a nucleus and Pennington isn't the answer.

Jags- But garrard did sign an extension.

Redskins- Wouldn't put it past Snyder

Chicago- But ownership is prolly too cheap

Lions- They need a guy for sure to team with Calvin

Vikings- They did just trade for Sage tho

Carolina- Possibly

TB- Young QB to team with the young coach overhaul.

STL- Bulger signed an extension....but isn't the answer

Sea- Hasselbeck isn't young

49ers- Cutler + Vernon=Harmony...lol.

It's useless to play this game. You could add so many teams here -- just like we thought Cutler's job was safe, the Broncos were looking to deal for Cassel.Anyway, for example, the Eagles and Cards could easily go in that list

I like that idea (and I am not an Eagles homer).I am just making this up - no real rumor. But, what about....

Nab and the Birds 1st round pick

for

Cutler

Eagles have a ton of picks in this draft. This eliminates the underlying inferno that could at any time erupt between Nabb and the team. Adds a younger, and still extremely talented QB in Philly. And all the while, Denver does not lose much at QB for the next few years, gets rid of a problem, and picks up a 1st rounder.

I like it...I am sure it will never happen.

 

[jonboltz]

I'd consider myself a Charger fan and I'd probably take Cutler over every QB not named Peyton/Brady and maybe Rothlisberger if I were building a franchise.

You would take a QB with a lousy attitude and poor leadership skills over Drew Brees? I would rather have Brees or Philip Rivers over Cutler.

I don't agree that he has a lousy attitude and have seen nothing that he lacks leadership skills. I think he's got a higher upside than Rivers and I also like Brees but due to the age I'd take Cutler. Even still we're debating the top 5-6 QB's in the game.

Last year down?

 

[thatguy]

I'd consider myself a Charger fan and I'd probably take Cutler over every QB not named Peyton/Brady and maybe Rothlisberger if I were building a franchise.

You would take a QB with a lousy attitude and poor leadership skills over Drew Brees? I would rather have Brees or Philip Rivers over Cutler.

I don't agree that he has a lousy attitude and have seen nothing that he lacks leadership skills. I think he's got a higher upside than Rivers and I also like Brees but due to the age I'd take Cutler. Even still we're debating the top 5-6 QB's in the game.

Last year down?

Upside down?

 

[shredhead]

Upside down?

I thought this was one of those economy threads and you were talking about my mortgage for a second there.

 

[MSULions]

I hope the Lions trade their second first round pick for Cutler and Denver's second. Or, trade your #1 pick in the draft for Cutler and all of Denver's 1st and second round picks.

as a Lions fan i'm salivating over the possibility of Cutler to Calvin for the next 5 years. That would be a LOT of fun to watch...if they can swing this and draft a good Olineman and some defense then they instantly become a .500 team and become a Dolphinesque turnaround. AND I would never have to hear the name Matt Stafford again! A DREAM COME TRUE!!!!

 

[twistd]

Cutler was a very good fantasy QB last year but he is way over rated as an NFL QB. He wasn't a winner in college and he is not a winner in the NFL. Now we have the I'm all upset because they considered trading me situation. He is nothing more than a mediocre QB and unless he can grow up and understand the business of the NFL he will continue to be an overated QB.

so when he does this he will be a solid qb in your eyes?

We can all have our opinions of Cutler. My opinion is that he does not have the makeup to be a consistent winner in the NFL. I think when his career is over he will be viewed as a disappointment. That is all I am saying.

I'd like to see the list of QBs you'd take over Cutler. Picking first round QBs is a crapshoot. Leinart and Young both look like busts. Obviously, I'd take Brady, Brees, and Manning over Cutler. I'd probably take Big Ben and I'd have to say Matt Ryan. But when you get in to Romo, Eli Manning, Rivers, and Rodgers, Cutler is right there. He almost has to be considered a top 10 QB. You don't toss aside a top 10 QB. The Broncos have been searching for a replacement for Elway. If they let Cutler get away they may be looking for a long time to find another Pro Bowl caliber replacement.

 

[The Riv]

I think the Carolina angle is the most interesting. I know NE is in a bid to get Peppers, but what about a Cutler/Scheffler for Peppers/Delhomme (+ maybe the appropriate draft picks swap)? CAR gets its next franchise QB and an established QB-TE hookup, and DEN dramatically improves its achilles' heel defense while maintaining a veteran presence @ QB.

Why not?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Management has also embarked on completely changing the system you work in, which had been highly successful.

17-20 is "highly successful"????

The Broncos offense is a system that has been highly successful for them over the past 14 years. In those 14 years, they have ranked in the top 10 in total offense 10 times, and the top 10 in scoring 10 times. To raise the bar, they have finished in the top 5 in total offense 9 times, and the top 5 in scoring 4 times. I would call that highly successful.

Cutler has played in Denver for 14 years?

 

[pollardsvision]

I think the Carolina angle is the most interesting. I know NE is in a bid to get Peppers, but what about a Cutler/Scheffler for Peppers/Delhomme (+ maybe the appropriate draft picks swap)? CAR gets its next franchise QB and an established QB-TE hookup, and DEN dramatically improves its achilles' heel defense while maintaining a veteran presence @ QB. Why not?

it's an interesting trade, but i see 2 problems:1-i can't imagine there's any way that the broncos would trade cutler to a team that could win the SB (that's why the lions make sense to me).2-i don't think the broncos would care about getting delhomme back. it'd be easier to just sign garcia.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

LOL, I think you know that's impossible. Sometimes you have to read between the lines and when I do that, I get that he lied to Cutler. There was a link in which McDaniels refused to say whether or not he tried to trade Cutler, or some variation of that. I think refusals to clarify something like that mean that the person did it and doesn't want to admit it, but YMMV.

It seems like what the public hears and what goes on behind closed doors is expected to be 2 different things...McDaniels being evasive to the media in now way means he has lied to Cutler. That tact is used ALL THE TIME.Lets stop saying Cutler was lied too unless someone can provide a link that actually says so.

 

[scoobygang]

What does it mean? That even the best QBs sometimes have major growing pains. Am I saying Cutler is as good or will ever be as good as Manning? No, just don't please don't draw that conclusion from what I said.

But this seems to be crux of the issue. Cutler supporters are acting like Cutler is already Peyton Manning. Those who think that Cutler is tradeable are just pointing out that he isn't. And that there are indications that he might not be. I'm not a Charger fan. I don't have any agenda. I certainly don't always support management. I thought Andy Reid cut off his nose to spite his face in the TO saga. But I do generally agree that there's no such thing as a player who can't be traded. Even if I did believe in such a thing, I don't think Jay Cutler has reached that level yet. Maybe he will. He certainly has a lot of talent. He's certainly put up big fantasy numbers (of course, Scott Mitchell once put up big fantasy numbers).I'm just not sure I get Cutler's beef. Is it about being lied to? Then maybe he should come out and say that. But if it's that he thinks it's inappropriate for a team to even consider trading him, and that he can't continue to work for a coach who doesn't immediately anoint him as the second coming of Johnny Unitas, then that just seems a little whiny to me. As has sometimes been pointed out by Cutler supporters in this thread, Shanahan's offenses have been consistently successful by statistical measures. Which makes it hard to understand why everyone thinks Cutler has made such a difference. Jake Plummer and Brian Griese were successful in that offense.

 

[Liquid Tension]

As a Dolphin fan I want to throw their hat in the ring. I would trade denver Pennington and get Cutler back with some draft picks in the mix. I am not sure what the Dolphins think they have in Henne, but if they like him, then this scenario is a waste of time.

However, if they are not sold on Henne, I would trade Pennington while people think he is better than he is and he is a system QB which is what McDaniels wants.

 

[pollardsvision]

What does it mean? That even the best QBs sometimes have major growing pains. Am I saying Cutler is as good or will ever be as good as Manning? No, just don't please don't draw that conclusion from what I said.

But this seems to be crux of the issue. Cutler supporters are acting like Cutler is already Peyton Manning. Those who think that Cutler is tradeable are just pointing out that he isn't. And that there are indications that he might not be. I'm not a Charger fan. I don't have any agenda. I certainly don't always support management. I thought Andy Reid cut off his nose to spite his face in the TO saga. But I do generally agree that there's no such thing as a player who can't be traded. Even if I did believe in such a thing, I don't think Jay Cutler has reached that level yet. Maybe he will. He certainly has a lot of talent. He's certainly put up big fantasy numbers (of course, Scott Mitchell once put up big fantasy numbers).

I'm just not sure I get Cutler's beef. Is it about being lied to? Then maybe he should come out and say that. But if it's that he thinks it's inappropriate for a team to even consider trading him, and that he can't continue to work for a coach who doesn't immediately anoint him as the second coming of Johnny Unitas, then that just seems a little whiny to me.

As has sometimes been pointed out by Cutler supporters in this thread, Shanahan's offenses have been consistently successful by statistical measures. Which makes it hard to understand why everyone thinks Cutler has made such a difference. Jake Plummer and Brian Griese were successful in that offense.

that is what cutler's saying and his supporters are saying. that he's only upset about being lied to.personally, i just don't buy that. it doesn't sound good to say that you think you are immune to trade talks, but that's the heart of this issue.

any reasonable person understands why mcdaniels couldn't be honest about the situation.

obviously, they couldn't tell him because he'd, you know, do what he's doing right now.

cutler sees himself as untouchable and that's what he's really upset about, imo. saying you're only upset the about dishonesty sounds better.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Management has also embarked on completely changing the system you work in, which had been highly successful.

17-20 is "highly successful"????

Cutler being 17-15 the last two years with two of the worst defenses in the NFL is not a knock on him, it's more of a testement. Here are the records of the teams with the worst total defense rankings the last two years:0-162-148-8 (Denver 2008)2-147-93-131-154-129-7 (Denver 2007)As you can see, the ONLY teams that finished .500 with defenses ranked that lowly the last two years were each of the two Denver teams. Without Cutler the Broncos could easily be closer to the 2-14 teams than the 9-7/8-8 teams they had.Cutler's win percentage when the defense allows less than 23pts is better than Ben Roethlisberger's, and his win percentage when the defense allows 23-39 points is better than Ben Roethlisberger's. He just plays a lot higher percentage of his games in that second category than the first thanks to his defense (not to mention the games where the D gave up 40+). Now I'm not trying to argue that Cutler is a better QB than Roethlisberger in here by any means, but it's amazing how much a defense can change people's perception of how good or bad a QB is.With Cutler at the helm, the Broncos are 12-1 when the defense allows less than 23 points. 23! It's not his fault that teams are typically scoring 30+ against them.

 

[bryan215]

McDaniels turned a guy that had never played a game since HS into a solid NFL QB.

I wouldn't be surprised if he could do the same with a much more talented, yet flawed QB in Matt Leniert.

 

[Banger]

I'd consider myself a Charger fan and I'd probably take Cutler over every QB not named Peyton/Brady and maybe Rothlisberger if I were building a franchise.

You would take a QB with a lousy attitude and poor leadership skills over Drew Brees? I would rather have Brees or Philip Rivers over Cutler.

I don't agree that he has a lousy attitude and have seen nothing that he lacks leadership skills. I think he's got a higher upside than Rivers and I also like Brees but due to the age I'd take Cutler. Even still we're debating the top 5-6 QB's in the game.

Last year down?

I didn't realize their careers were over.

 

[Banger]

McDaniels turned a guy that had never played a game since HS into a solid NFL QB.I wouldn't be surprised if he could do the same with a much more talented, yet flawed QB in Matt Leniert.

I think you forgot that they had the best WR in the NFL, another very good WR, a very good line and arguably the best coach in the game and a solid defense. The same is not true in Denver.