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your kidding, right?
funny enough, i think it helps. depending on your scoring system, i think the Colts will be behind quite often, and Collins will check down on dependable Clark. if your league is PPR and gives extra pts. for TE catches, i think it won't hurt a ton, and may even help
There is no reason to make the OP feel stupid for asking.
I disagree. Just because you own a certain player doesnt mean you should be looking for some dumb vindication that that player will be even better now. Its asinine and brings the quality of this board down.
I actually liked it. My
was more at the responses you were getting. The sharks are pissy tonight cause all the debates are old and there's no new info until next week when real football starts.
Is there any evidence to show that a veteran QB new to an offense relies on TEs "more than usual"? If so, I'd be interested to see it."New" is somewhat of a vague term. I think it may be true that inexperienced QBs rely on TEs more. But Collins has played 17 seasons in the NFL and attempted more than 6000 passes. I don't see any reason to think he would be incapable of throwing sufficiently well to targets other than Clark, especially given the Colts have a number of other good targets. I'm sure he will rely on Clark plenty, just as Manning did. But more than Manning? Based on what?And that still doesn't address the reduction in the quality of Clark's targets with Collins passing to him rather than Manning. For that matter, it doesn't address the likely reduction in the efficiency and productivity of the offense, which could easily result in fewer TD opportunities for Clark.
While people are perhaps being overly harsh of Collins skills, I don't see how you can say it'd be a wash moving from Manning to Collins just because Collins throws a nice deep ball. And predicting a 4000yd, 30 TD season is very bullish imo. Collins has thrown for over 3800 yards just once in his 17 year career, and that happened 9 seasons ago. He's also never thrown more than 22 TDs in a season. Having a career year at the age of 38 is unlikely to say the least, no matter how good his supporting cast is.
"more than usual" maybe when you are taking about an average offense and it's players in general. Manning and Clark are far from an average offense. Manning is a master at using Clark's strengths to exploit defenses. Kerry Collins is not. If Manning goes on IR before my next draft I don't touch Clark until about the 10th round. With Manning I might take him in the 4th depending on how the draft is going.
just trying to help dman's crew. no reason for him to panic with his roster, hopefully he has some TE depth and can ride it out to see what is going on with Manning. season hasn't started yet, if he can grab any of the TE's mentioned in the other threads he'll be fine
In response to others saying how stupid or outrageous the OP's question was, if you think somebody, whether it's the OP here or anywhere else, posted a stupid question, no one's forcing you to answer. Why waste your time?? Just move along to the next post. I get really tired of that sort of thing. It ranks right up there with those who feel the need to attack someone else's league because player X is available there as a potential WW pickup ("He was drafted in the 3rd round in my league!! What kind of FF idiots are you playing with that X is still on your waiver wire??").
was pettigrew a top 3 te with stafford? its a horrible question. clark was top 3 with the best qb of all time. to even think for a second that clark would get BETTER without manning and with an out of retirement 38yr old journeyman is asinine.
C'mon shady. It wasn't a horrible question.....it was a valid question with a few simple (and to you, obvious) answers. Stop ragging on the OP. Some of the comments in here have been in really poor taste.Also: Collins is a better QB than what most people think of as a "journeyman." Is he great? Nope. Is he a stiff? Nope.
precision bullets down the field where Manning hits Clark on a dead run... those will be less frequent due to losing a perennial All Pro QB.
yeah my response was a bit harsh and i apologize for that. i was bitter i lost my fantasy baseball playoffs last night and was taking it out on others
IMO and as a long time Colts fan I believe he is affected the most. If you look back and see Clarks best games, his catches came in bunches because Peyton uses him as his release more so than any other player. I believe it was game one last yr and Clark/Collie seemed to get every pass as the Colts tried to rally from behind. I think both ended with over 10 catches in this game and my point is that if you look back on Clark/Manning, they have a relationsip that goes beyond your typical QB/TE relationship.Without Manning, Clark would stuggle to be a top 10 TE.
Exactly, it's not like it just happened two years ago in Minnesota, right?
Seriously, though, while I agree that you can't say the move from Manning to Collins is a wash for the Colts, as a REAL FOOTBALL team, I think it might not be that bad of a move, FF points-wise for the receiving options in Indy.
I was reading this and nodding, thinking in particular of McNabb who is "new" and who doesn't appear to have led to a bump for Shiancoe... He had a decent season in Favre's good year but seems forgotten all of a sudden.
He hasn't been forgotten. He hasn't played for the last few weeks due to a pulled hamstring.
Wiiten was a top TE with Romo, but went up with Kitna (although I doubt we will see Kitna/Witten like numbers here).
Well, they passed the ball 680 times last year. I'm pretty sure that number will come down.For one thing, I don't think Collins can stay upright all season if he is throwing more than 40 times per game. More importantly, they will likely not sustain drives as long, which means running fewer plays. And if they seek to run more, as you mention here, that by definition means they must throw less.Exactly, it's not like it just happened two years ago in Minnesota, right?
While the Colts might try to run more to account for not having Manning under center, the reality is that the Indy run game isn't great, and neither is their defense. They will likely have to pass the ball to stay in games, or to catch up. So the opportunities will be there for Wayne, Collie, Clark, etc.
I don't think any of the Indy receivers are going to have career years, but I think that with this news, they are going to be under-valued, and could be "bought low" in trades now.
I thought Peyton afforded them the ability to sorta have a mirage of a running game. Edge and Faulk surely were great runners there a million years ago, but it hasn't seemed anything like that since. I'm afraid that KC faces a ton of 3rd and long-s. Peyton also was a gem at getting rid of the ball quickly. KC is surely not. The Colts line had it a little easier then.Can their line handle this QB change? Can they step-up so they can run more effectively and protect KC long enough? I think your high attempt numbers are due to Peyton keeping so many drives alive and all the attempts on long drives. KC can not fill Peyton's shoes. He can be a quarterback there and do OK, but he can't be "the whole team." How many Colts games have you watched and thought they didn't even truly play D? Or have much of a running game? Collins is totally going to fail if they rely on him as much as Peyton. Maybe two QBs in the league can do what Peyton does and it surely isn't KC.
That's the part I was wondering about when reading thru this thread. I'm going with Graham over Clark even though it looks like Collie may not play. You all want to know who this hurts? Wayne. That's who. Clark should get plenty of targets but they may try and rely on the run game a lot more.
Great point. I agree that people should not just expect the other players to be all that useful. Without Manning's checkdowns and overall chess-style game management, you are going to see lower amounts of touches for almost everybody. The exception will be a player who might become Collin's saftey net, such as wayne or Collie or even Clark. I would not want to invest in that kind of deal though.If Manning is not there, Clark moves down to the 7-10 range I would slide him in after M Lewis. With out manning the offence will see alot of 3 and outs ,less chances for everybody . and I am colts fan
