Dallas RB speculation (1 Viewer)

[Da Guru]

Jones is too brittle for the goal line work.

How many games did he miss in 2006?

Exactly, because they kept him away from the goal line and short yardage duties.

 

[Todem]

Although Barber is clearly the fan favorite, Phillips and Garrett seem content to continue the status quo, meaning Jones would start and give way to Barber in short-yardage and red-zone situations.

But Garrett hinted Barber might get more action outside the red zone and on first and second downs this season. Tyson Thompson also could figure in the mix after shredding the Broncos' reserves for 75 yards on 16 carries in the second half.

"We're going to try to do some of the same things, and we're going to try to mix it up more," Garrett said. "Having both of those guys (Barber and Jones) getting touches is really good for us."

LinkEDIT: To put in link

I was going to give this link some credit until the part about Tyson Thompson in the mix. IMO > JJ is the value play on the Cowboys. He is more likely to end up with a better season than Barber III and can be had later....

It's good to see someone here understands value.

Banker,I am dissapointed in you. I know you're a huge JJ supporter but you were one of the few guys from last season that came to their senses (or at least admited it) and realized that Barber was the better choice. I even recall you saying that it should be MBlll 70% of the time and JJ %30. Did you truely change your tune or is your love for JJ blinding you? I'm curious on the honest take of a true Cowboy fan.

You are correct. Toward the end of last year JJ was getting the time he deserved based on performance. However, there are 2 questions (and separate ones in my opinion) in this thread. 1) Who is the the better value from a FF point of view. IMO that is JJ. I see no change io how these backs will be used. However, I do see a much better O-line and JJ is back to his form with his cut backs. Something he didn't do becasue of the whole Parcells/Robot thing.

2) The second topic here is who is the better runner. Again I will say it JJ, however the great TD success of Barber has made his stock huge. Don't get me wrong, I love Barber too. However, he benefits from goal line and 3rd down small fronts and he picks up lots of garbage time stats. If I was starting a francise and I had to pick my starting RB......it's Jones. Honestly though ,I could care less who scores the TD's in Dallas as long as they come in bunches. However, just look at the tape of JJ in the first 2 games, he looks totally different this year. He trained hard and kept his lower body strong, but less bulky. He seems to have picked up a step and the burst is back. I thought MB3 had a bad first game but indeed looked great against the Broncos.

Consider the following:

Both are in contract years. MB3 just hired super agent too. Dallas may want to keep Barbers #'s down to keep him cheaper. JJ will be gone after this year. I totally believe the McFadden hype. Sure looks like the plan to me.

New coaching staff

New offense installed...similar to the 90's Norv offense. Who is more likely to fill the role of Emmitt JJ/MB3. More lead draws, more quick hitting run plays combined with some smash mouth road graters on the O-line.

My "Official"predictions:

The overall Dallas rushing numbers increase this year.

The TD ratio of JJ/MB3 evens out some.

Both are used exactly like last year to start the year. However, they will ride the hot hand. I like JJ to get off to a good start against the G Men Week 1.

I not calling JJ a stud this year, I am calling him a value play. Great 3rd RB with potential to be a RB2.

MB3 will be the benefactor of some Cowboy blowouts this year and some garbage 4th Q time after that huge O-line has beaten the other team up for 3 Q's.

Editted for terrible grammar...at work and doing this on the D-Lo.

Exactamundo.

 

[Pnishthm]

I think the value aspect is the key here. It is possible these two will average out the same scoring wise with MBIII getting the TDs and JJ more yardage. If your league scores more heavily one way or the other than that is the way to go. I was recently in a 12 team redraft where MB went 2.11 and I grabbed JJ at 8.02. This is an extreme case as both those are departures from their ADP but it shows how much potential value there is between two backs who could very well go on to score equal points.

Do you think that the reason JJ fell so far was because the other owners thought he would be a handcuff to MB and didn't want to draft him with MB?

FS, I think the reason he is falling as far as he has is his 9 TDs in two years since MBlll has joined the team. Throw in the fact that's he's only getting 250 carries per year to go with those 9 TDs in two years and the possibly of MBlll taking over the #1 role at some point has to worry guys. It will cetainly be intersting to see how the new staff handles this situation. If JJ can show some flashes that he showed his rookie year like banker seems to think he can, then he could be very good value. However, if MBlll takes over the starting role for any reason, then he too could be very good value. This should be a fun thread to monitor.

 

[Bankerguy]

I think the value aspect is the key here. It is possible these two will average out the same scoring wise with MBIII getting the TDs and JJ more yardage. If your league scores more heavily one way or the other than that is the way to go. I was recently in a 12 team redraft where MB went 2.11 and I grabbed JJ at 8.02. This is an extreme case as both those are departures from their ADP but it shows how much potential value there is between two backs who could very well go on to score equal points.

Do you think that the reason JJ fell so far was because the other owners thought he would be a handcuff to MB and didn't want to draft him with MB?

FS, I think the reason he is falling as far as he has is his 9 TDs in two years since MBlll has joined the team. Throw in the fact that's he's only getting 250 carries per year to go with those 9 TDs in two years and the possibly of MBlll taking over the #1 role at some point has to worry guys. It will cetainly be intersting to see how the new staff handles this situation. If JJ can show some flashes that he showed his rookie year like banker seems to think he can, then he could be very good value. However, if MBlll takes over the starting role for any reason, then he too could be very good value. This should be a fun thread to monitor.

The question that HAS to be asked is.....How much better can MB3 produce in comparison to a year where everything fell perfectly for him. The only chance is if JJ totally lays an egg. At this point all signs indicate that wont happen.Therefore, I feel it's safe to assume a uptick in JJ's #'s and a small down turn in MB3's. To what degree is definetly debatable. Taking into account this less than ideal situation for FF owners I still submit that JJ is the value this year, much like MB3 was last year. Just my $0.03......I got more than my $0.02 worth on the last post!!

 

[Jason Wood]

I just watched the rerun of the Denver preseason game and had some random thoughts about the Cowboys RB situation. I for the life of me can’t see why every so-called expert has Marion Barber higher than Julius Jones on their draft boards. I know, a keep hearing goal line specialist, short yardage specialist, etc, etc, etc. I’ve read the spotlights, and heard all the thoughts either way. The rankings are all based on the speculation that Barber is going to eventually take over for Jones as the guy, or at least be the more dominant and productive of the two backs. How can you really speculate on this based on the last few years productivity, when they have a new head coach, and offensive coordinator. If I became the new coach of a team I would not have any prejudgment whatsoever regarding those backs. I wouldn’t want the biases of the former head coach to effect my decisions on who to play in what situation. I think Garrett and Phillips will let the best RB play most of the time, period. As it’s playing out so far in the preseason, that looks to be Jones. He has been the starter. He finally has a decent line blocking for him. He played into the second quarter, like most of the starters did, and then Barber took over. I didn’t see any bias to give Barber the short yardage of goal line carries at all. As a matter of fact, the only reason Barber got the first TD in this game was because Denver called time out and then the Cowboys made the switch. They had not planned on subbing for Jones until the time out was called. I just don’t get it! IMO Jones is the better back. Barber has more size I’ll give him that much. I’ll take the home run hitter every time though. Sometimes you have to stop reading all the hype on the boards about players and just watch with your own eyes. This situation is very similar to the Foster/ Williams situation in Carolina. The big difference being that Carolina has the same coach. He still has his biases towards the RB’s. If they had a new coach in Carolina, I would think it very likely that Williams would be the starter. But for now, Foster is still the guy! You wouldn’t think so by his ADP. Although I see FBG is starting to see the light on this one. I think Jones is a steal at his ADP, and for that matter, so is Foster! Have a good day!

The new coaches have gone out of their way to say the see no reason to change the RB roles from a season ago (i.e., if it ain't broke don't fix it). If anything, the enthusiasm for Barber is/was in the hopes that with a new coaching staff and no preconceived loyalties, the better back (Barber) would get the bigger workload. Based on their respective production, Barber has been better. That's simply a comparison of their statistical outputs. But many of us (myself included) that had hoped the 'Boys would adjust things, I think are now accepting that Jones is likely in line for more carries (maybe as many as 2 to 1), while Barber will get many of the carries that count (i.e., the TD plunges).Frankly I think both represent value at their current ADPs. As much as it pains me to say it, the Cowboys look downright scary on both sides of the ball. I think they're going to give the Eagles all they can handle this year and possibly push for a bye week in the playoffs alongside the Bears.

 

[zoonation]

Although Barber is clearly the fan favorite, Phillips and Garrett seem content to continue the status quo, meaning Jones would start and give way to Barber in short-yardage and red-zone situations.

But Garrett hinted Barber might get more action outside the red zone and on first and second downs this season. Tyson Thompson also could figure in the mix after shredding the Broncos' reserves for 75 yards on 16 carries in the second half.

"We're going to try to do some of the same things, and we're going to try to mix it up more," Garrett said. "Having both of those guys (Barber and Jones) getting touches is really good for us."

LinkEDIT: To put in link

I was going to give this link some credit until the part about Tyson Thompson in the mix. IMO > JJ is the value play on the Cowboys. He is more likely to end up with a better season than Barber III and can be had later....

It's good to see someone here understands value.

Banker,I am dissapointed in you. I know you're a huge JJ supporter but you were one of the few guys from last season that came to their senses (or at least admited it) and realized that Barber was the better choice. I even recall you saying that it should be MBlll 70% of the time and JJ %30. Did you truely change your tune or is your love for JJ blinding you? I'm curious on the honest take of a true Cowboy fan.

You are correct. Toward the end of last year JJ was getting the time he deserved based on performance. However, there are 2 questions (and separate ones in my opinion) in this thread. 1) Who is the the better value from a FF point of view. IMO that is JJ. I see no change io how these backs will be used. However, I do see a much better O-line and JJ is back to his form with his cut backs. Something he didn't do becasue of the whole Parcells/Robot thing.

2) The second topic here is who is the better runner. Again I will say it JJ, however the great TD success of Barber has made his stock huge. Don't get me wrong, I love Barber too. However, he benefits from goal line and 3rd down small fronts and he picks up lots of garbage time stats. If I was starting a francise and I had to pick my starting RB......it's Jones. Honestly though ,I could care less who scores the TD's in Dallas as long as they come in bunches. However, just look at the tape of JJ in the first 2 games, he looks totally different this year. He trained hard and kept his lower body strong, but less bulky. He seems to have picked up a step and the burst is back. I thought MB3 had a bad first game but indeed looked great against the Broncos.

Consider the following:

Both are in contract years. MB3 just hired super agent too. Dallas may want to keep Barbers #'s down to keep him cheaper. JJ will be gone after this year. I totally believe the McFadden hype. Sure looks like the plan to me.

New coaching staff

New offense installed...similar to the 90's Norv offense. Who is more likely to fill the role of Emmitt JJ/MB3. More lead draws, more quick hitting run plays combined with some smash mouth road graters on the O-line.

My "Official"predictions:

The overall Dallas rushing numbers increase this year.

The TD ratio of JJ/MB3 evens out some.

Both are used exactly like last year to start the year. However, they will ride the hot hand. I like JJ to get off to a good start against the G Men Week 1.

I not calling JJ a stud this year, I am calling him a value play. Great 3rd RB with potential to be a RB2.

MB3 will be the benefactor of some Cowboy blowouts this year and some garbage 4th Q time after that huge O-line has beaten the other team up for 3 Q's.

Editted for terrible grammar...at work and doing this on the D-Lo.

One key difference in their free agent status is that JJ is a UFA after the season, while Barber is an RFA. It will be interesting to see what transpires in the offseason.

It won't be that interesting...JJ will be gone.I seriously question people's football acumen if they cannot see Barber is the better back. In the redzone it isn't even debatable. I think you will see Barber slowly start to get more carries as the season moves along. I think it will end up 60-40 MB3 by the stretch run

 

[doughboydeluxe]

Although Barber is clearly the fan favorite, Phillips and Garrett seem content to continue the status quo, meaning Jones would start and give way to Barber in short-yardage and red-zone situations.

But Garrett hinted Barber might get more action outside the red zone and on first and second downs this season. Tyson Thompson also could figure in the mix after shredding the Broncos' reserves for 75 yards on 16 carries in the second half.

"We're going to try to do some of the same things, and we're going to try to mix it up more," Garrett said. "Having both of those guys (Barber and Jones) getting touches is really good for us."

LinkEDIT: To put in link

I was going to give this link some credit until the part about Tyson Thompson in the mix. IMO > JJ is the value play on the Cowboys. He is more likely to end up with a better season than Barber III and can be had later....

It's good to see someone here understands value.

Banker,I am dissapointed in you. I know you're a huge JJ supporter but you were one of the few guys from last season that came to their senses (or at least admited it) and realized that Barber was the better choice. I even recall you saying that it should be MBlll 70% of the time and JJ %30. Did you truely change your tune or is your love for JJ blinding you? I'm curious on the honest take of a true Cowboy fan.

You are correct. Toward the end of last year JJ was getting the time he deserved based on performance. However, there are 2 questions (and separate ones in my opinion) in this thread. 1) Who is the the better value from a FF point of view. IMO that is JJ. I see no change io how these backs will be used. However, I do see a much better O-line and JJ is back to his form with his cut backs. Something he didn't do becasue of the whole Parcells/Robot thing.

2) The second topic here is who is the better runner. Again I will say it JJ, however the great TD success of Barber has made his stock huge. Don't get me wrong, I love Barber too. However, he benefits from goal line and 3rd down small fronts and he picks up lots of garbage time stats. If I was starting a francise and I had to pick my starting RB......it's Jones. Honestly though ,I could care less who scores the TD's in Dallas as long as they come in bunches. However, just look at the tape of JJ in the first 2 games, he looks totally different this year. He trained hard and kept his lower body strong, but less bulky. He seems to have picked up a step and the burst is back. I thought MB3 had a bad first game but indeed looked great against the Broncos.

Consider the following:

Both are in contract years. MB3 just hired super agent too. Dallas may want to keep Barbers #'s down to keep him cheaper. JJ will be gone after this year. I totally believe the McFadden hype. Sure looks like the plan to me.

New coaching staff

New offense installed...similar to the 90's Norv offense. Who is more likely to fill the role of Emmitt JJ/MB3. More lead draws, more quick hitting run plays combined with some smash mouth road graters on the O-line.

My "Official"predictions:

The overall Dallas rushing numbers increase this year.

The TD ratio of JJ/MB3 evens out some.

Both are used exactly like last year to start the year. However, they will ride the hot hand. I like JJ to get off to a good start against the G Men Week 1.

I not calling JJ a stud this year, I am calling him a value play. Great 3rd RB with potential to be a RB2.

MB3 will be the benefactor of some Cowboy blowouts this year and some garbage 4th Q time after that huge O-line has beaten the other team up for 3 Q's.

Editted for terrible grammar...at work and doing this on the D-Lo.

One key difference in their free agent status is that JJ is a UFA after the season, while Barber is an RFA. It will be interesting to see what transpires in the offseason.

It won't be that interesting...JJ will be gone.I seriously question people's football acumen if they cannot see Barber is the better back. In the redzone it isn't even debatable. I think you will see Barber slowly start to get more carries as the season moves along. I think it will end up 60-40 MB3 by the stretch run

It's not a question about who is the better back... it's a question about how they will be used. The only way the Cowboys change anything significantly from how they used the two backs last year will be in case of injury or if it's not working. I can't predict injuries, and I don't see any indication that the system isn't going to work. In fact, with the addition of Leonard Davis, the Cowboys should be able to run a little better than they did last year.And regarding next offseason, it WILL be interesting. Unless JJ has a huge year, he leaves. Do the Cowboys then try to draft McFadden? Do they make MBIII the feature back? What happens if someone signs MBIII to an offer?

 

[Pnishthm]

Although Barber is clearly the fan favorite, Phillips and Garrett seem content to continue the status quo, meaning Jones would start and give way to Barber in short-yardage and red-zone situations.

But Garrett hinted Barber might get more action outside the red zone and on first and second downs this season. Tyson Thompson also could figure in the mix after shredding the Broncos' reserves for 75 yards on 16 carries in the second half.

"We're going to try to do some of the same things, and we're going to try to mix it up more," Garrett said. "Having both of those guys (Barber and Jones) getting touches is really good for us."

LinkEDIT: To put in link

I was going to give this link some credit until the part about Tyson Thompson in the mix. IMO > JJ is the value play on the Cowboys. He is more likely to end up with a better season than Barber III and can be had later....

It's good to see someone here understands value.

Banker,I am dissapointed in you. I know you're a huge JJ supporter but you were one of the few guys from last season that came to their senses (or at least admited it) and realized that Barber was the better choice. I even recall you saying that it should be MBlll 70% of the time and JJ %30. Did you truely change your tune or is your love for JJ blinding you? I'm curious on the honest take of a true Cowboy fan.

You are correct. Toward the end of last year JJ was getting the time he deserved based on performance. However, there are 2 questions (and separate ones in my opinion) in this thread. 1) Who is the the better value from a FF point of view. IMO that is JJ. I see no change io how these backs will be used. However, I do see a much better O-line and JJ is back to his form with his cut backs. Something he didn't do becasue of the whole Parcells/Robot thing.

2) The second topic here is who is the better runner. Again I will say it JJ, however the great TD success of Barber has made his stock huge. Don't get me wrong, I love Barber too. However, he benefits from goal line and 3rd down small fronts and he picks up lots of garbage time stats. If I was starting a francise and I had to pick my starting RB......it's Jones. Honestly though ,I could care less who scores the TD's in Dallas as long as they come in bunches. However, just look at the tape of JJ in the first 2 games, he looks totally different this year. He trained hard and kept his lower body strong, but less bulky. He seems to have picked up a step and the burst is back. I thought MB3 had a bad first game but indeed looked great against the Broncos.

Consider the following:

Both are in contract years. MB3 just hired super agent too. Dallas may want to keep Barbers #'s down to keep him cheaper. JJ will be gone after this year. I totally believe the McFadden hype. Sure looks like the plan to me.

New coaching staff

New offense installed...similar to the 90's Norv offense. Who is more likely to fill the role of Emmitt JJ/MB3. More lead draws, more quick hitting run plays combined with some smash mouth road graters on the O-line.

My "Official"predictions:

The overall Dallas rushing numbers increase this year.

The TD ratio of JJ/MB3 evens out some.

Both are used exactly like last year to start the year. However, they will ride the hot hand. I like JJ to get off to a good start against the G Men Week 1.

I not calling JJ a stud this year, I am calling him a value play. Great 3rd RB with potential to be a RB2.

MB3 will be the benefactor of some Cowboy blowouts this year and some garbage 4th Q time after that huge O-line has beaten the other team up for 3 Q's.

Editted for terrible grammar...at work and doing this on the D-Lo.

One key difference in their free agent status is that JJ is a UFA after the season, while Barber is an RFA. It will be interesting to see what transpires in the offseason.

It won't be that interesting...JJ will be gone.I seriously question people's football acumen if they cannot see Barber is the better back. In the redzone it isn't even debatable. I think you will see Barber slowly start to get more carries as the season moves along. I think it will end up 60-40 MB3 by the stretch run

It's not a question about who is the better back... it's a question about how they will be used. The only way the Cowboys change anything significantly from how they used the two backs last year will be in case of injury or if it's not working. I can't predict injuries, and I don't see any indication that the system isn't going to work. In fact, with the addition of Leonard Davis, the Cowboys should be able to run a little better than they did last year.And regarding next offseason, it WILL be interesting. Unless JJ has a huge year, he leaves. Do the Cowboys then try to draft McFadden? Do they make MBIII the feature back? What happens if someone signs MBIII to an offer?

What are the chances that if Dallas knows JJ will be leaving at years end, they ease MBlll into the starting role?

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Although Barber is clearly the fan favorite, Phillips and Garrett seem content to continue the status quo, meaning Jones would start and give way to Barber in short-yardage and red-zone situations.

But Garrett hinted Barber might get more action outside the red zone and on first and second downs this season. Tyson Thompson also could figure in the mix after shredding the Broncos' reserves for 75 yards on 16 carries in the second half.

"We're going to try to do some of the same things, and we're going to try to mix it up more," Garrett said. "Having both of those guys (Barber and Jones) getting touches is really good for us."

LinkEDIT: To put in link

I was going to give this link some credit until the part about Tyson Thompson in the mix. IMO > JJ is the value play on the Cowboys. He is more likely to end up with a better season than Barber III and can be had later....

It's good to see someone here understands value.

Banker,I am dissapointed in you. I know you're a huge JJ supporter but you were one of the few guys from last season that came to their senses (or at least admited it) and realized that Barber was the better choice. I even recall you saying that it should be MBlll 70% of the time and JJ %30. Did you truely change your tune or is your love for JJ blinding you? I'm curious on the honest take of a true Cowboy fan.

You are correct. Toward the end of last year JJ was getting the time he deserved based on performance. However, there are 2 questions (and separate ones in my opinion) in this thread. 1) Who is the the better value from a FF point of view. IMO that is JJ. I see no change io how these backs will be used. However, I do see a much better O-line and JJ is back to his form with his cut backs. Something he didn't do becasue of the whole Parcells/Robot thing.

2) The second topic here is who is the better runner. Again I will say it JJ, however the great TD success of Barber has made his stock huge. Don't get me wrong, I love Barber too. However, he benefits from goal line and 3rd down small fronts and he picks up lots of garbage time stats. If I was starting a francise and I had to pick my starting RB......it's Jones. Honestly though ,I could care less who scores the TD's in Dallas as long as they come in bunches. However, just look at the tape of JJ in the first 2 games, he looks totally different this year. He trained hard and kept his lower body strong, but less bulky. He seems to have picked up a step and the burst is back. I thought MB3 had a bad first game but indeed looked great against the Broncos.

Consider the following:

Both are in contract years. MB3 just hired super agent too. Dallas may want to keep Barbers #'s down to keep him cheaper. JJ will be gone after this year. I totally believe the McFadden hype. Sure looks like the plan to me.

New coaching staff

New offense installed...similar to the 90's Norv offense. Who is more likely to fill the role of Emmitt JJ/MB3. More lead draws, more quick hitting run plays combined with some smash mouth road graters on the O-line.

My "Official"predictions:

The overall Dallas rushing numbers increase this year.

The TD ratio of JJ/MB3 evens out some.

Both are used exactly like last year to start the year. However, they will ride the hot hand. I like JJ to get off to a good start against the G Men Week 1.

I not calling JJ a stud this year, I am calling him a value play. Great 3rd RB with potential to be a RB2.

MB3 will be the benefactor of some Cowboy blowouts this year and some garbage 4th Q time after that huge O-line has beaten the other team up for 3 Q's.

Editted for terrible grammar...at work and doing this on the D-Lo.

One key difference in their free agent status is that JJ is a UFA after the season, while Barber is an RFA. It will be interesting to see what transpires in the offseason.

It won't be that interesting...JJ will be gone.I seriously question people's football acumen if they cannot see Barber is the better back. In the redzone it isn't even debatable. I think you will see Barber slowly start to get more carries as the season moves along. I think it will end up 60-40 MB3 by the stretch run

It's not a question about who is the better back... it's a question about how they will be used. The only way the Cowboys change anything significantly from how they used the two backs last year will be in case of injury or if it's not working. I can't predict injuries, and I don't see any indication that the system isn't going to work. In fact, with the addition of Leonard Davis, the Cowboys should be able to run a little better than they did last year.And regarding next offseason, it WILL be interesting. Unless JJ has a huge year, he leaves. Do the Cowboys then try to draft McFadden? Do they make MBIII the feature back? What happens if someone signs MBIII to an offer?

What are the chances that if Dallas knows JJ will be leaving at years end, they ease MBlll into the starting role?

What if they decide to play MBIII a lot less so they can sign him next year cheaply.

 

[yellowdog]

What are the chances that if Dallas knows JJ will be leaving at years end, they ease MBlll into the starting role?

What if they decide to play MBIII a lot less so they can sign him next year cheaply.

What if they have to find out if he can carry the load?

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

What are the chances that if Dallas knows JJ will be leaving at years end, they ease MBlll into the starting role?

What if they decide to play MBIII a lot less so they can sign him next year cheaply.

What if they have to find out if he can carry the load?

Good point. Wish I was a fly on the wall in Dallas minicamp.

 

[Pnishthm]

What are the chances that if Dallas knows JJ will be leaving at years end, they ease MBlll into the starting role?

What if they decide to play MBIII a lot less so they can sign him next year cheaply.

What if they have to find out if he can carry the load?

Good point. Wish I was a fly on the wall in Dallas minicamp.

Both good points.