Dante Hall traded to Rams (1 Viewer)

[Kevin Ashcraft]

This doesn't make a lot of sense to me at least from the KC side of it. St. Louis made out great!!! They have been horrid on Special Teams and Hall can break one on any return! Not only that but he will single handedly give the Rams a better starting field position on vertually every possetion. Yet, all they gave up is a fifth round pick? That is a no brainer for the Rams, IMHO. KC looses a great weapon. Yeah, he wasn't great on offense but he set up the offense to have a shorter field.They're nuts (Chiefs) Good Move Rams

How many kicks or punts Has Hall taken back the last 2 seasons?How many TD passes has he caught?How many 100 yd receiving games has he had?Answer that for me.....I know the answers but you do not seem to know the facts.Dante is living off his reputation and feats he accomplished in his past. I look at him the same way I do a Randy Johnson in MLB. At some point guys decline, and the sooner you see it, the better off your organization will be.

 

[massraider]

It is quite clear from the posts who has seen Dante the past two years, and who is remembering 2004 highlights.

Like I said, not a bad deal for a 5th, but the guy that played last year for KC? They won't miss him much.

 

[Snotbubbles]

So you saying that Barry Sanders wouldn't have been worth a 5th rounder? I don't think you will be posting anything for a while, after embarrassing yourself like that.

Barry Sanders would touch the ball 20-25 times a game so he could go 3, 4 or 5 plays getting negative yardage for that one 50 yarder and be worth a 5th rounder.Dante Hall touches the ball what? 5 times a game? He can't afford to go 3, 4 or 5 plays getting negative yardage.

 

[enfuego]

So you saying that Barry Sanders wouldn't have been worth a 5th rounder?I don't think you will be posting anything for a while, after embarrassing yourself like that.

Barry Sanders would touch the ball 20-25 times a game so he could go 3, 4 or 5 plays getting negative yardage for that one 50 yarder and be worth a 5th rounder.Dante Hall touches the ball what? 5 times a game? He can't afford to go 3, 4 or 5 plays getting negative yardage.

If Hall touches the ball 5x per game in a 16 game season that would put him at 80 times a year...divided by his 2007 salary of $1.5m = $18,750 per....THAT, is some high price ball touching....

 

[CalBear]

Frankly, I am a bit confused by the deal...I think it's lousy for the Rams as their kick returner from last year, Willie Ponder, had a higher per-return average in 2006 than Hall: 23.4 vs 22.8

And the Rams gave up a 5th rounder for a WR that can't play WR?

Well, Hall is more plausible as a WR in the Rams offense than in KC's. With Kevin Curtis gone, they need someone to be the fourth WR. KC barely uses their WR1 and WR2.

 

[Kevin Ashcraft]

Frankly, I am a bit confused by the deal...I think it's lousy for the Rams as their kick returner from last year, Willie Ponder, had a higher per-return average in 2006 than Hall: 23.4 vs 22.8

And the Rams gave up a 5th rounder for a WR that can't play WR?

Well, Hall is more plausible as a WR in the Rams offense than in KC's. With Kevin Curtis gone, they need someone to be the fourth WR. KC barely uses their WR1 and WR2.

Wrong.Eddie Kennison has had 2 straight 1K yard seasons.

 

[hutchins929]

So how is their any comparison in your mind between a HOF running back and a according to you has been p/k returner?

Also it has been said that I haven't looked a Dante Hall over the last two years. I was simply stating that the Rams were horrid on ST and the addition of Dante Hall was a good one. I said he COULD break one at any time. COULD not WOULD! Also he will give the Rams a better starting position this season compared to over the last few years. I also said that he isn't that great on offense, but his addition to the ST unit would be worth it, if they have a shorter field to move down to score.

You the wad of coming out of your mouth and that's about it!

 

[RedZone]

First of all, kudos to nfl.com for updating their draft table so quickly. The details of the draft (swap thirds and STL gives fifth) rate out to 46.5 points, which is the equivalent of a late fourth round pick (#29 of the fourth round).

I am not too excited about Dante's ability as an upgrade as I would have been to get more depth in the O line with that fifth round pick or address D needs. TG seemed like a good draft prospect to address needs and unless contract was restructured, Hall is expensive for what he provides.

I am not too concerned about the swap of thirds, as it only puts KC and Carolina ahead of STL from where they would have drafted. Not likely to have made a critical difference.

My biggest gripe, loss of pick, STL will have no pick from 117 to 190 now and cost of contract this year and next.

FWIW, I cheered with everyone else when Dante was the X-factor.

 

[Kevin Ashcraft]

So how is their any comparison in your mind between a HOF running back and a according to you has been p/k returner? Also it has been said that I haven't looked a Dante Hall over the last two years. I was simply stating that the Rams were horrid on ST and the addition of Dante Hall was a good one. I said he COULD break one at any time. COULD not WOULD! Also he will give the Rams a better starting position this season compared to over the last few years. I also said that he isn't that great on offense, but his addition to the ST unit would be worth it, if they have a shorter field to move down to score. You the wad of coming out of your mouth and that's about it!

Stay classy.....

 

[CalBear]

Well, Hall is more plausible as a WR in the Rams offense than in KC's. With Kevin Curtis gone, they need someone to be the fourth WR. KC barely uses their WR1 and WR2.

Wrong.Eddie Kennison has had 2 straight 1K yard seasons.

He had 1K yard seasons in 2004-2005, you mean. KC has not had a WR get 70 receptions since Derrick Alexander (2000). St. Louis has had a 70-reception receiver every year, and most years has had two 70-reception receivers, dating back to the Super Bowl year. In 2006, St. Louis WRs had 220 receptions for 2901 yards and 18 TDs. KC WRs had 125 receptions for 1665 yards and 8 TDs. It's safe to say that Hall will likely get more work at WR in St. Louis than he did in KC.

 

[-OZ-]

Well, Hall is more plausible as a WR in the Rams offense than in KC's. With Kevin Curtis gone, they need someone to be the fourth WR. KC barely uses their WR1 and WR2.

Wrong.Eddie Kennison has had 2 straight 1K yard seasons.

He had 1K yard seasons in 2004-2005, you mean. KC has not had a WR get 70 receptions since Derrick Alexander (2000). St. Louis has had a 70-reception receiver every year, and most years has had two 70-reception receivers, dating back to the Super Bowl year. In 2006, St. Louis WRs had 220 receptions for 2901 yards and 18 TDs. KC WRs had 125 receptions for 1665 yards and 8 TDs. It's safe to say that Hall will likely get more work at WR in St. Louis than he did in KC.

Interesting logic, but you're missing where Hall isn't good. Saunders tried to get him involved in the offense and failed. But hey, if you think he'll get more work in St. Louis, where they have Torry Holt, Drew Bennett, Isaac Bruce, SJax, and Randy McMichael, pass me that pipe we shall see.

 

[Mike Herman]

Thoughts from a St. Louis sports columnist

Dante Hall fits into the Rams lineup because Linehan doesn’t use many four-receiver sets. Linehan doesn’t need big offensive production from Hall’s spot on the depth chart. If Dante still has his jets at the age of 28 – and we suspect he does – than he can become an occasional change-of-pace offensive player and a serious kick return threat. Unlike Willie Ponder, the part-time Rams kickoff return man last season, Hall is an excellent punt returner too. He can do more than run deep routes, too; Hall figures to keep defenses honest with periodic end-around runs.

The Rams can’t expect Hall to terrify the NFL as he did from 2002-2004. What he did during that span was supernatural. Hall was a human highlight reel, breaking one impossible return after another. He banged around coverage teams like a pinball. He brought Chiefs fans to their feet again and again and again. But the Rams CAN expect him to advance kickoffs past its 20-year line and force teams to punt carefully against them. Hall ran one punt back for a touchdown last season and caught two TD passes as well.

Former Chiefs coach **** Vermeil loved Hall and made him one of his marquee players. Hall had less success under current coach Herm Edwards and asked out after last season. Hall is certainly worth a shot, especially at this modest price. How many fifth-round picks become impact players? It won’t be difficult for Hall to improve on what we’ve seen from the Rams the past few seasons; their rotating cast of “return specialists” failed miserably. Rather than spend a high pick on Ginn or a mid-round pick on another potential return specialist, the Rams improved themselves with a veteran.

Now new special teams coach Al Roberts must set up return schemes to exploit his skill and find special team players capable of blocking for him. In recent years, the Rams return game has been hapless across the board. Roberts, who had been out of the NFL since 2002, still has a big challenge on his hands. The addition of Hall eliminates all excuses. The Rams have a proven return specialist now. Now the team must find willing blockers (and tacklers for the coverage teams) and coach them up. Now they must actually execute on special teams, tilting the field the other way for a change. Hall’s mere presence ought to inspire better performance from the entire return team.

link

 

[enfuego]

So how is their any comparison in your mind between a HOF running back and a according to you has been p/k returner? Also it has been said that I haven't looked a Dante Hall over the last two years. I was simply stating that the Rams were horrid on ST and the addition of Dante Hall was a good one. I said he COULD break one at any time. COULD not WOULD! Also he will give the Rams a better starting position this season compared to over the last few years. I also said that he isn't that great on offense, but his addition to the ST unit would be worth it, if they have a shorter field to move down to score. You the wad of coming out of your mouth and that's about it!

Stay classy.....

For sure...should we all be reminded that there is no pissing in the Shark Pool...

 

[BoltBacker]

I can't believe so many people feel this passionately one way or the other that one of these teams robbed the other. Hall or a mid-round 5th rounder? It's very possible neither was going to make their team anyway. Seems like a good trade for both sides to me but it's not like it's that big a deal either way. Both could still get cut for that matter.

 

[Mike Herman]

Dante speaks:

"I'm happy. I feel like I'm a draft pick all over again. I knew the Chiefs were in the process of trying to get rid of me. When people don't want you, they don't want you. I'm glad I'm going somewhere I'm wanted."

"It was a hard transition going from what I was used to to what was in place last year. Herm came in his first year and told me I was one of his guys. But a lot of his guys that he said were his guys are gone now. Things didn't go too well last year, but I had already resolved in my mind that when I came back...that I was going to have a positive attitude no matter what my role is going to be. Then I heard they were trying to trade me. I did talk to Herm, and there were no hard feelings. We agreed that if I did come back, that I would come back with that positive attitude and he would have a different outlook on me."

"I watched video during the season, after the season. I've watched it a lot, and I know I can be the same player I was earlier in my career. When I look at old film, I was always able to get going (up the field). That was my strength. I was trying to make too many things happen, but I was also forced to go laterally a lot of times. I just need the consistent chance to go (up the field)."

 

[Steel Mike Tomczak]

KC Chiefs recievers make me chuckle. Especially now.

 

[Da Guru]

Halls stats have gone down the last two seasons, but I still thin he has a couple of good return years left.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Frankly, I am a bit confused by the deal...I think it's lousy for the Rams as their kick returner from last year, Willie Ponder, had a higher per-return average in 2006 than Hall: 23.4 vs 22.8

And the Rams gave up a 5th rounder for a WR that can't play WR?

:( The only people that can possibly think that the Rams are getting a great kick returner are Rams fans with rose colored glasses and the same people that still think that Edgerrin James is a first round fantasy pick.

 

[Kevin Ashcraft]

KC Chiefs recievers make me chuckle. Especially now.

Yep Dante Hall added THAT much for your opinion to change at all.

 

[BoltBacker]

Halls stats have gone down the last two seasons, but I still thin he has a couple of good return years left.

Problem is he's taking up the roster spot of some young unknown guy that has a couple of good return years in him AND might develop into at least a slot receiver. Add to that the fact the unknown will be paid next to nothing and it's pretty obvious why this trade was made by KC. STL has the luxury they don't need their KR to contribute as a WR nearly as much as KC does and has for a long time now.

 

[Steel Mike Tomczak]

KC Chiefs recievers make me chuckle. Especially now.

Yep Dante Hall added THAT much for your opinion to change at all.

I mean, sure, I chuckled a few extra times. HAHA ha ....ha. chiefs. ha.

 

[Bri]

Halls stats have gone down the last two seasons, but I still thin he has a couple of good return years left.

Problem is he's taking up the roster spot of some young unknown guy that has a couple of good return years in him AND might develop into at least a slot receiver. Add to that the fact the unknown will be paid next to nothing and it's pretty obvious why this trade was made by KC. STL has the luxury they don't need their KR to contribute as a WR nearly as much as KC does and has for a long time now.

I don't see the roster spot as a prob at all for either team.Look at a guy like Tyree who did some good this year in a game or two but has pretty much done nothing as a WR in his career. He equals field position for the Giants in their opinion, so it seems. That's worth a roster spot to them obviously.IF the Rams feel that Hall equals field position so be it. There's been a large number of ST players that didn't do much at their so called position but teams valued for their impact on field position. I'd guess the Chargers feel similarly about Osgood and the Fins felt that way about Izzo for years, Tasker.....etc.

 

[BoltBacker]

Halls stats have gone down the last two seasons, but I still thin he has a couple of good return years left.

Problem is he's taking up the roster spot of some young unknown guy that has a couple of good return years in him AND might develop into at least a slot receiver. Add to that the fact the unknown will be paid next to nothing and it's pretty obvious why this trade was made by KC. STL has the luxury they don't need their KR to contribute as a WR nearly as much as KC does and has for a long time now.

I don't see the roster spot as a prob at all for either team.Look at a guy like Tyree who did some good this year in a game or two but has pretty much done nothing as a WR in his career. He equals field position for the Giants in their opinion, so it seems. That's worth a roster spot to them obviously.IF the Rams feel that Hall equals field position so be it. There's been a large number of ST players that didn't do much at their so called position but teams valued for their impact on field position. I'd guess the Chargers feel similarly about Osgood and the Fins felt that way about Izzo for years, Tasker.....etc.

Completely disagree.KC needs young WR/CB and if they are going to have to go out and get prospects at those positions they may as well get a guy that can be a WR/CB prospect that also returns kicks. Maybe one of the many reasons KC hasn't been able to develop better WR's is because he's been taking up a roster spot as a "wr" that has never developed and WR skills.Sure there are ST players that don't do much else but a common thread between all those guys is they are pretty good at ST. Hall finished 24th in KO retrun average and 16th in punt return average. This for a guy that is going to be 29yo this year and has been trending down. You don't think there are any mid-round WR/CB's that could duplicate that production on ST AND have a much higher probability of becoming an every down player?

 

[kensat30]

Is it just me or do most 5th rounders not even make the final roster nowadays? We're talking about a formerly great return man for a 5th round pick. He can't be worse than average can he?

 

[CalBear]

Is it just me or do most 5th rounders not even make the final roster nowadays? We're talking about a formerly great return man for a 5th round pick. He can't be worse than average can he?

He was in 2006. (#24 in punt return average, #54 in kickoff return average).

 

[midnightxxxx]

Dante was exciting in Kansas City and I have much admiration for him and what he did for the Chiefs under **** Vermeil. Fact is as exciting as it is to watch him dance around and make people look foolish trying to tackle him he lost more yards as time progressed. I think he is well suited for the turf and dome which the Rams are offering and this bodes well for him the future.

Both teams I feel got equity in this deal. Most local talk shows I have been listening to are saying that Jeff Webb will assume the KR/PR duties here in KC. Or if we are lucky enough to snag CB Aaron Ross in the draft perhaps these duties get shared.

Like reading Ashcrofts and Warpigs posts about KC but do not think Ashcrofts skin is thick enough. Warpig as a former Marine also has posted things as close to non homer biased I have seen on these forums. Kevin I am not calling you out here other than saying you are sometimes from reading your posts taking everything as personal attacks. Mull on it and reread what you write with a non biased opinion and I am confident you may see this as well. Keep up the good material Kevin and Warpig.

 

[Bri]

Halls stats have gone down the last two seasons, but I still thin he has a couple of good return years left.

Problem is he's taking up the roster spot of some young unknown guy that has a couple of good return years in him AND might develop into at least a slot receiver. Add to that the fact the unknown will be paid next to nothing and it's pretty obvious why this trade was made by KC. STL has the luxury they don't need their KR to contribute as a WR nearly as much as KC does and has for a long time now.

I don't see the roster spot as a prob at all for either team.Look at a guy like Tyree who did some good this year in a game or two but has pretty much done nothing as a WR in his career. He equals field position for the Giants in their opinion, so it seems. That's worth a roster spot to them obviously.IF the Rams feel that Hall equals field position so be it. There's been a large number of ST players that didn't do much at their so called position but teams valued for their impact on field position. I'd guess the Chargers feel similarly about Osgood and the Fins felt that way about Izzo for years, Tasker.....etc.

Completely disagree.KC needs young WR/CB and if they are going to have to go out and get prospects at those positions they may as well get a guy that can be a WR/CB prospect that also returns kicks. Maybe one of the many reasons KC hasn't been able to develop better WR's is because he's been taking up a roster spot as a "wr" that has never developed and WR skills.Sure there are ST players that don't do much else but a common thread between all those guys is they are pretty good at ST. Hall finished 24th in KO retrun average and 16th in punt return average. This for a guy that is going to be 29yo this year and has been trending down. You don't think there are any mid-round WR/CB's that could duplicate that production on ST AND have a much higher probability of becoming an every down player?

If he's 24th I'll agree to an extent sure but that is a fast field(as they say). That and working out with Holt+Bruce, I just figure he'll have a fine season in 07.Young WRs that "should develop" are eligible for the practice squad and not a threat to Dante's roster spot. They also are "a dime a dozen." Thinking of your Chargers the last couple years, you got nothing out of Winnie (or Minnie or whatever his name is), nothing out of Ruvell, and finally a practice squad player(Floyd) did pretty good in limitted action. 1 out of 3. Neither hurt your ST guy, Osgood's chances of being on the active roster either.WRs that have yet to develop but are NOT eligible for the practice squad are pretty low on the NFL roster totem pole and Dante is worth more than that IMO. Generally, 5th round pick WRs are a long ways from Calvin Johnson and are most likely PS players.

 

[CalBear]

\Generally, 5th round pick WRs are a long ways from Calvin Johnson and are most likely PS players.

This is cherry-picking a little, but some decent WRs have come out of round 5+ recently:Colston (7)Drew Carter (5)DJ Hackett (5)Patrick Crayton (7)Bobby Wade (5)Justin Gage (5)Doug Gabriel (5)Arnaz Battle (6)Willie Podner (6)It seems reasonable that KC can replace Hall's production with someone of that level, and pay a lot less money.

 

[Bri]

\Generally, 5th round pick WRs are a long ways from Calvin Johnson and are most likely PS players.

This is cherry-picking a little, but some decent WRs have come out of round 5+ recently:Colston (7)Drew Carter (5)DJ Hackett (5)Patrick Crayton (7)Bobby Wade (5)Justin Gage (5)Doug Gabriel (5)Arnaz Battle (6)Willie Podner (6)It seems reasonable that KC can replace Hall's production with someone of that level, and pay a lot less money.

Generally down? OK Let's see right away I see Battle, Crayton, and Ponder PS players and well we all know Colston was gold.Hackett's not ringing a bell, I don't think he was on PS.Pats cut Gabriel and activated WR Kelvin Kight.....cmon that might not be PS but it's pretty The Bears WRs aren't very good at all I'm not sure what the point was herecmon now

 

[hutchins929]

This is cherry-picking a little, but some decent WRs have come out of round 5+ recently:

Colston (7)

Drew Carter (5)

DJ Hackett (5)

Patrick Crayton (7)

Bobby Wade (5)

Justin Gage (5)

Doug Gabriel (5)

Arnaz Battle (6)

Willie Podner (6)

It seems reasonable that KC can replace Hall's production with someone of that level, and pay a lot less money.

ok now how many WR's that were recently drafted in the the fifth or later are still in the league, compaired to ones that are no longer in the league? my point being, just because your team drafts a wr in the later rounds doesn't mean he will work out.

 

[3nOut]

So when drafting a FF D/ST (combined), where would you rank the Rams now?

 

[Kevin Ashcraft]

So when drafting a FF D/ST (combined), where would you rank the Rams now?

Man, it is a tough call as to how much of a bump this is. They really need help in multiple places on that DEF. I think a lot of it depends on how much improvement Tye Hill makes and if the draft an impact DEF player in round 1. As of right now, I might only bump them up 2-3 spots with the addition of Dante.

 

[3nOut]

So when drafting a FF D/ST (combined), where would you rank the Rams now?

Man, it is a tough call as to how much of a bump this is. They really need help in multiple places on that DEF. I think a lot of it depends on how much improvement Tye Hill makes and if the draft an impact DEF player in round 1. As of right now, I might only bump them up 2-3 spots with the addition of Dante.

Placing them where?

 

[Kevin Ashcraft]

So when drafting a FF D/ST (combined), where would you rank the Rams now?

Man, it is a tough call as to how much of a bump this is. They really need help in multiple places on that DEF. I think a lot of it depends on how much improvement Tye Hill makes and if the draft an impact DEF player in round 1. As of right now, I might only bump them up 2-3 spots with the addition of Dante.

Placing them where?

I had them as a bottom 10 DEF last season, somewhere around 25-27th. I would say, at the very best, they crack the top 20 this season.

 

[Tackling Dummies]

Considering Moss and Darrell Jackson were dealt for 4th round picks, a 5th round pick looks like StL overpaid.

 

[-OZ-]

Kolby Smith or Dante Hall...

I don't know too much about Smith, but it sounds like he'll be ok to provide a breather to LJ occasionally.

 

[Bri]

This is cherry-picking a little, but some decent WRs have come out of round 5+ recently:

Colston (7)

Drew Carter (5)

DJ Hackett (5)

Patrick Crayton (7)

Bobby Wade (5)

Justin Gage (5)

Doug Gabriel (5)

Arnaz Battle (6)

Willie Podner (6)

It seems reasonable that KC can replace Hall's production with someone of that level, and pay a lot less money.

ok now how many WR's that were recently drafted in the the fifth or later are still in the league, compaired to ones that are no longer in the league? my point being, just because your team drafts a wr in the later rounds doesn't mean he will work out.

you goofed on that quote, that wasn't me

 

[Bri]

Considering Moss and Darrell Jackson were dealt for 4th round picks, a 5th round pick looks like StL overpaid.

4th seemed real low to alot of people, one round less than real low doesn't seem like overpaying to me when you think of it that way.The Rams got who they wanted, Chiefs seem pleased with their pick so who cares....