Darius Heyward Bey anyone? (1 Viewer)

[Raiderfan32904]

Raiders finally come to pass

By Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer

Wednesday, May 26th, 2010 at 2:05 pm in Oakland Raiders.

You’ve been reading in this space for the better part of the last four years about the worst passing game in the NFL.

The Raiders’ in inability to catch the ball was exceeded only by their ineffectiveness when it came to throwing it.

Poor timing. Bad routes. More footballs on the ground than eggs on Easter Sunday.

I’ve written about it for the last four training camps as well as most OTAs and minicamps. Then the Raiders would live down to expectations and show that practice does indeed make for imperfections.

So it’s worth taking note when things go well, simply because it hasn’t happened that often.

Yes, Wednesday’s practice was a mere “organized team activity.” No pads, no hard contact. But that never stopped the Raiders from having bad practices before.

With quarterback Jason Campbell getting most of the work (the company line will be about training camp competition, but the only way he doesn’t start is because of injury), the Raiders, with offensive coordinator Hue Jackson challenging his offense and talking trash to the defense, actually put a legitimate NFL passing game on the field.

(Quick admission _ my car broke down close to home, and I had to get it towed to a shop. Got back home and took another vehicle to practice and arrived late, but was told I saw most of the team sessions).

“I’ve seen how far we’ve come as an offense, and we’re much better and guys are developing,” tight end Zach Miller said. “I mean, just watching him, Heyward-Bey has been phenomenal out here. He’s matured a lot and I’m really looking forward to seeing what kind of season he’s going to have.”

Indeed, Heyward-Bey was the best receiver on the field Wednesday (Chaz Schilens remains a spectator recovering from foot surgery). He caught everything thrown his way and if he even bobbled the ball once, I didn’t see it.

Most of the routes were shallow to medium depth _ he never got well downfield for a catch. But he accelerated into shallow crosses and then smoothly turned up field for gains. He made a catch on Nnamdi Asomugha and left him in the dust with a spin move for extra yards.

“Today was a really good practice for him,” Asomugha said. “That’s the best practice I’ve seen from him here. Last week we went through OTAs and he was doing a little better, I guess, there was some inconsistency.

“But today was a good day for him to build off of and see how he comes out tomorrow. It’s days like this you want to keep stringing along. You don’t want to fall back after a day like this. He was catching the ball. I don’t know that he dropped a ball. Caught maybe eight or nine, so that was good for him.”

After one red zone score, Heyward-Bey was greeted in the end zone by Louis Murphy and Tony Stewart for a three-way celebration.

Heyward-Bey, whose style is to let the failures roll off his back, sounds pretty much the same after success. Not a lot of emotion or I-told-you-sos.

“We’re just competing out here,” Heyward-Bey said. “That’s something Hue has brought in, competing against each other, wide receivers, O-line, running backs, going at the DBs. It’s fun. We have a good practice, we let them know. They have a good practice, they let us know.”

Said coach Tom Cable: “Darrius was really on today. But I thought a lot of things went in to that. I thought the quarterbacks threw him a lot of balls on time. He caught the ball well, made a move with after the catch, which I thought was most impressive. It was a very good day for him.”

Some cautious optimism now that the Raiders have a real NFL QB.

 

[Avery]

After one red zone score, Heyward-Bey was greeted in the end zone by Louis Murphy and Tony Stewart for a three-way celebration.

Raiders celebrating TDs in camp. Awesome.

 

[massraider]

After one red zone score, Heyward-Bey was greeted in the end zone by Louis Murphy and Tony Stewart for a three-way celebration.

Raiders celebrating TDs in camp. Awesome.

Hey, it's gotta happen someday! What, you want them to score a TD and not know what to do?

 

[No Way Jose]

I still think Louis Murphy is the wr to own. I just don't see the consistancy from DHB and Chaz is always hurt. I fully expect an article in the near future talking about how DHB struggled in practice.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Even Troy Williamson was able to bounce back and have the odd good training camp, and have good things written about him. Even last year he was ahead of Sims-Walker at the end of camp, but he had an injury and then I was reading that he has the dropsies again this year.

If you have bad hands, you have bad hands.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Even Troy Williamson was able to bounce back and have the odd good training camp, and have good things written about him. Even last year he was ahead of Sims-Walker at the end of camp, but he had an injury and then I was reading that he has the dropsies again this year.If you have bad hands, you have bad hands.

Good comparison to a point. They were both 1st rounder, 7th pick overall. Both blazing speed. But Williamson has at least had some decent QBs throwing the ball to him. It's fair to call Troy a bust since he's had several years to prove himself and failed. DHB was a rookie last year. He had arguably the worst QB in the history of the league throw to him. Last year, Tom Cable was the OC and he used DHB as a decoy for much of the games he played. He definitely deserved his share of critisism since he did drop a lot of passes. But for perspective, comparing him to a bust like Williamson is a bit premature.

 

[Avery]

Even Troy Williamson was able to bounce back and have the odd good training camp, and have good things written about him. Even last year he was ahead of Sims-Walker at the end of camp, but he had an injury and then I was reading that he has the dropsies again this year.

If you have bad hands, you have bad hands.

Good comparison to a point. They were both 1st rounder, 7th pick overall. Both blazing speed. But Williamson has at least had some decent QBs throwing the ball to him. It's fair to call Troy a bust since he's had several years to prove himself and failed. DHB was a rookie last year. He had arguably the worst QB in the history of the league throw to him. Last year, Tom Cable was the OC and he used DHB as a decoy for much of the games he played. He definitely deserved his share of critisism since he did drop a lot of passes. But for perspective, comparing him to a bust like Williamson is a bit premature.

I'll never get tired of seeing his natural
.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

I'll never get tired of seeing his natural

I remember that game well. DHB is not a defender, so if he looked akward as a tackler and a rookie it should be taken with a grain of salt.I remember that game as possibly the highlight of the year for the NY Giants. Antonio Pierce mouthing off about the Raiders afterword. Where is Antonio now? The Giants season went to crap after that game IIRC.

 

[Avery]

I'll never get tired of seeing his natural

It is a hilarious video. I understand he's not a defender and a rookie but it seemed he forgot he was in a football game and through he was in a track race. To answer the your question, Antonio Pierce is a FA.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Even Troy Williamson was able to bounce back and have the odd good training camp, and have good things written about him. Even last year he was ahead of Sims-Walker at the end of camp, but he had an injury and then I was reading that he has the dropsies again this year.If you have bad hands, you have bad hands.

Good comparison to a point. They were both 1st rounder, 7th pick overall. Both blazing speed. But Williamson has at least had some decent QBs throwing the ball to him. It's fair to call Troy a bust since he's had several years to prove himself and failed. DHB was a rookie last year. He had arguably the worst QB in the history of the league throw to him. Last year, Tom Cable was the OC and he used DHB as a decoy for much of the games he played. He definitely deserved his share of critisism since he did drop a lot of passes. But for perspective, comparing him to a bust like Williamson is a bit premature.

People keep on making excuses for DBH though.In college his very mediocre stats were blamed on QB play and a conservative offenses. In the end and at best DHB is going to be a speed stretch the field kind of guy who will ever struggle to catch more than 50 balls in the NFL. It is just not his game. It was not in college and it won't be in the NFL.College stats2008: 42 catches 609 yards 5 td's 2007: 51 catches 786 yards 3 td's 2006: 45 catches 694 yards 5 td's First year in the NFL:9 receptions 124 yards and 1 td on 40 targets

 

[MAC_32]

Even Troy Williamson was able to bounce back and have the odd good training camp, and have good things written about him. Even last year he was ahead of Sims-Walker at the end of camp, but he had an injury and then I was reading that he has the dropsies again this year.If you have bad hands, you have bad hands.

Good comparison to a point. They were both 1st rounder, 7th pick overall. Both blazing speed. But Williamson has at least had some decent QBs throwing the ball to him. It's fair to call Troy a bust since he's had several years to prove himself and failed. DHB was a rookie last year. He had arguably the worst QB in the history of the league throw to him. Last year, Tom Cable was the OC and he used DHB as a decoy for much of the games he played. He definitely deserved his share of critisism since he did drop a lot of passes. But for perspective, comparing him to a bust like Williamson is a bit premature.

People keep on making excuses for DBH though.In college his very mediocre stats were blamed on QB play and a conservative offenses. In the end and at best DHB is going to be a speed stretch the field kind of guy who will ever struggle to catch more than 50 balls in the NFL. It is just not his game. It was not in college and it won't be in the NFL.College stats2008: 42 catches 609 yards 5 td's 2007: 51 catches 786 yards 3 td's 2006: 45 catches 694 yards 5 td's First year in the NFL:9 receptions 124 yards and 1 td on 40 targets

Simply put, this guy hasn't produced. Ever.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

Even Troy Williamson was able to bounce back and have the odd good training camp, and have good things written about him. Even last year he was ahead of Sims-Walker at the end of camp, but he had an injury and then I was reading that he has the dropsies again this year.If you have bad hands, you have bad hands.

Good comparison to a point. They were both 1st rounder, 7th pick overall. Both blazing speed. But Williamson has at least had some decent QBs throwing the ball to him. It's fair to call Troy a bust since he's had several years to prove himself and failed. DHB was a rookie last year. He had arguably the worst QB in the history of the league throw to him. Last year, Tom Cable was the OC and he used DHB as a decoy for much of the games he played. He definitely deserved his share of critisism since he did drop a lot of passes. But for perspective, comparing him to a bust like Williamson is a bit premature.

People keep on making excuses for DBH though.In college his very mediocre stats were blamed on QB play and a conservative offenses. In the end and at best DHB is going to be a speed stretch the field kind of guy who will ever struggle to catch more than 50 balls in the NFL. It is just not his game. It was not in college and it won't be in the NFL.College stats2008: 42 catches 609 yards 5 td's 2007: 51 catches 786 yards 3 td's 2006: 45 catches 694 yards 5 td's First year in the NFL:9 receptions 124 yards and 1 td on 40 targets

Simply put, this guy hasn't produced. Ever.

Tons of players don't produce well in college and have success in the NFL, and some players break college records and never even get drafted or given a chance in the NFL, so what stats a player had in college is not really significant. If it were all about college stats, then Graham Harrell and Timmy Chang would be first round picks.You can't just take a player's college stats at face value. You have no clue if the college team was running a spread offense and passing the ball on every down, or if they handed the ball off 45 times a game and rarely passed.

 

[silentmark]

After one red zone score, Heyward-Bey was greeted in the end zone by Louis Murphy and Tony Stewart for a three-way celebration.

Raiders celebrating TDs in camp. Awesome.

So what do the Giants do? Ridicule each other ? Please, dumbest comment so far this year ...

 

[OnThInIcE911]

Maybe I'm just an optimist but I have only heard good things about DHB during this offseason, which iirc is a bit different from last year where they talked about all his drops.

I don't think any teams doubted he was a first round talent in the draft and the only reason hes under so much scrutiny is the reach Oakland made over Crabtree.

Also everyone knew he was raw coming out of college combined with a terrible QB how could you expect a good rookie season?

DHB is a great BUY this offseason because he is a rare rookie who did not show much promise last year. His perceived value is much lower than his potential so grab him cheap while you can.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Even Troy Williamson was able to bounce back and have the odd good training camp, and have good things written about him. Even last year he was ahead of Sims-Walker at the end of camp, but he had an injury and then I was reading that he has the dropsies again this year.If you have bad hands, you have bad hands.

Good comparison to a point. They were both 1st rounder, 7th pick overall. Both blazing speed. But Williamson has at least had some decent QBs throwing the ball to him. It's fair to call Troy a bust since he's had several years to prove himself and failed. DHB was a rookie last year. He had arguably the worst QB in the history of the league throw to him. Last year, Tom Cable was the OC and he used DHB as a decoy for much of the games he played. He definitely deserved his share of critisism since he did drop a lot of passes. But for perspective, comparing him to a bust like Williamson is a bit premature.

People keep on making excuses for DBH though.In college his very mediocre stats were blamed on QB play and a conservative offenses. In the end and at best DHB is going to be a speed stretch the field kind of guy who will ever struggle to catch more than 50 balls in the NFL. It is just not his game. It was not in college and it won't be in the NFL.College stats2008: 42 catches 609 yards 5 td's 2007: 51 catches 786 yards 3 td's 2006: 45 catches 694 yards 5 td's First year in the NFL:9 receptions 124 yards and 1 td on 40 targets

Simply put, this guy hasn't produced. Ever.

Tons of players don't produce well in college and have success in the NFL, and some players break college records and never even get drafted or given a chance in the NFL, so what stats a player had in college is not really significant. If it were all about college stats, then Graham Harrell and Timmy Chang would be first round picks.You can't just take a player's college stats at face value. You have no clue if the college team was running a spread offense and passing the ball on every down, or if they handed the ball off 45 times a game and rarely passed.

I agree, but what is it about DHB's skill set and or history including a year in the NFL shows that he is going to be anything but a stretch the field player? People have no choice but to sit back and hope and want him to succeed, but his chances of having much fantasy impact are slim. He will be inconsistent at best and then more excuses will come, and when Campbell is done his stop gap stint in Oakland there will be a rookie trying to work the ball into DBH and more excuses will come.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

I agree, but what is it about DHB's skill set and or history including a year in the NFL shows that he is going to be anything but a stretch the field player? People have no choice but to sit back and hope and want him to succeed, but his chances of having much fantasy impact are slim. He will be inconsistent at best and then more excuses will come, and when Campbell is done his stop gap stint in Oakland there will be a rookie trying to work the ball into DBH and more excuses will come.

You realize it has been ONE year for DHB in the NFL and he was playing with what is being called the biggest bust of a QB ever, right? I need a jump to conclusions mat as well.

 

[MAC_32]

I agree, but what is it about DHB's skill set and or history including a year in the NFL shows that he is going to be anything but a stretch the field player? People have no choice but to sit back and hope and want him to succeed, but his chances of having much fantasy impact are slim. He will be inconsistent at best and then more excuses will come, and when Campbell is done his stop gap stint in Oakland there will be a rookie trying to work the ball into DBH and more excuses will come.

You realize it has been ONE year for DHB in the NFL and he was playing with what is being called the biggest bust of a QB ever, right? I need a jump to conclusions mat as well.

I think most reasonable people realize it's only been a year, since you didn't address it in the above post I'll ask again because I, too, am curious - what is it about DHB's skill set and or history including a year in the NFL shows that he is going to be anything but a stretch the field player? What I saw last year wasn't much different than what I saw of him in college. He's the type of guy a franchise takes a flier on in the late rounds, a toolsy prospect without production, unfortunately the Raiders have pinned him with round 1 pick expectations.

 

[Avery]

After one red zone score, Heyward-Bey was greeted in the end zone by Louis Murphy and Tony Stewart for a three-way celebration.

Raiders celebrating TDs in camp. Awesome.

So what do the Giants do? Ridicule each other ? Please, dumbest comment so far this year ...

Lighten up, Francis.Little joke that massraider took well and made a good funny back.

 

[massraider]

Yeah, I'm cool like that.

The only reason to consider DHB right now, is that his profile was soooo bad last year, and the Raiders got sooooo crushed (I was piling on as well) for drafting him, that it is at the point where you might be able to pick him up for a 6 pack of warm beer.

I am a big fan of getting players that are unpopular, or mocked for stuff that has nothing to do with the player. You can get some of these players for nothing, because everyone is so busy cracking jokes that they never stop to consider that a Lendale White or a DHB might have some value. Vince Young a year ago is another good example. I think Dwayne Bowe might slip into this category as well. Players can be ranked lower than they should be, just because they aren't particularly likable.

DHB's sample size is too small to bury him just yet. He has Chaz Shilens and Louis Murphy to compete with, this isn't a guy behind two All-Pros. He has physical skills, and is a hard worker. Am I a believer? No. And every catch Crabtree makes is a dagger in my heart. But am I completely sure that he will never amount to anything? No. There are worse players to have at the end of your bench.

 

[The Man With No Name]

Lots of successful NFL wide receivers have just as bad rookie seasons.

Here are a few:

Harold Jackson 0/00/0 career: 579/10372/79

Drew Hill 4/94/1 career: 634/9831/60

Rod Smith 6/152/1

Joe Horn 2/30/0

Cris Carter 5/84/2

Charlie Joyner 7/77/0 career: 750/12146/65

Don Maynard 5/84/0 career: 633/11834/88

I could go on and on.

He could still be a big bust, but it is too early to call him that. He could probably be had for a fraction of his price post draft 2009.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

DHB wasn't my choice and when I heard his name called at the podium, I about ####e my pants. But in the next moment, I saw the smug reaction from Crabtree and I was glad we didn't draft that punk. For the record, I wanted BJ Raji, and he hasn't really done much for Green Bay.

Later that draft night, I saw an ESPN interview where Suzy Kolber, Trent Dilfer, Chris Carter all were laughing through an interview with him. DHB answered the mocking questions in a class manner. I totally lost respect for those clowns, and it just illustrated the venom that the media has for the Raiders. At that moment, I was glad we drafted DHB. He is going to prove the doubters wrong. He has a fire in his belly, and he works real hard. Most people don't know this, but he is an excellent downfield blocker and that is a huge asset for the team. I believe in him, and I am pulling for him to take a huge step forward.

For FF purposes, he is the Raiders WR#1, till Chaz heals, if ever. Murphy is going to platoon on the other side with JLH, Ford, or Chaz. But with Hue Jackson running the show, and Cable stepping back from play calling, and add in that DHB is an asset without the ball. I predict he is on the field the vast majority of playing time. That PT has to count for something, right?

Those who still have last years JaMarcus Russell team in their memories and are still laughing are going to miss the DHB train when it pulls into the station. As said earlier, he can be had cheap.

 

[Jedimaster21]

I agree, but what is it about DHB's skill set and or history including a year in the NFL shows that he is going to be anything but a stretch the field player? People have no choice but to sit back and hope and want him to succeed, but his chances of having much fantasy impact are slim. He will be inconsistent at best and then more excuses will come, and when Campbell is done his stop gap stint in Oakland there will be a rookie trying to work the ball into DBH and more excuses will come.

You realize it has been ONE year for DHB in the NFL and he was playing with what is being called the biggest bust of a QB ever, right? I need a jump to conclusions mat as well.

The most accurate predictor of future behavior is past behavior. DHB has NEVER producted at the college or NFL level. He has a history of putting up mediocre stats, struggling with drops, and underachieving considering his physical ability. There is nothing that would cause you to conclude that all of a sudden he will set the world on fire in a poor organization, with a poor QB, poor line, and questionable coaching. The logical prediction is that he will keep on being what he always has been...a mediocre deep threat with questionable hands.Now you are welcome to predict success, but there isn't much there that would cause someone to agree with you. And you hardly have the facts to start making patronizing statements to those that actually have a logical argument.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

I agree, but what is it about DHB's skill set and or history including a year in the NFL shows that he is going to be anything but a stretch the field player? People have no choice but to sit back and hope and want him to succeed, but his chances of having much fantasy impact are slim. He will be inconsistent at best and then more excuses will come, and when Campbell is done his stop gap stint in Oakland there will be a rookie trying to work the ball into DBH and more excuses will come.

You realize it has been ONE year for DHB in the NFL and he was playing with what is being called the biggest bust of a QB ever, right? I need a jump to conclusions mat as well.

The most accurate predictor of future behavior is past behavior. DHB has NEVER producted at the college or NFL level. He has a history of putting up mediocre stats, struggling with drops, and underachieving considering his physical ability. There is nothing that would cause you to conclude that all of a sudden he will set the world on fire in a poor organization, with a poor QB, poor line, and questionable coaching. The logical prediction is that he will keep on being what he always has been...a mediocre deep threat with questionable hands.Now you are welcome to predict success, but there isn't much there that would cause someone to agree with you. And you hardly have the facts to start making patronizing statements to those that actually have a logical argument.

U of Maryland had primarily a running team IIRC, due to them having woeful QB play. DHB had scholarship offers to schools with better air attacks, (I think GTech). He wanted to stay close to home and help his family. He didn't produce in college because his team and his Qb was not even close to being NFL-worthy. How is it that no one, not any of the "experts" including Kiper rated DHB anything less than a first round pick? Because they saw enough tape and indiviual workouts that they could see that he had enormous talent. The knock against him universally was that he was raw since he didn't have experience as the star receiver in college. It was only a little of a year ago that DHB was drafted, and there are some who either forgot his draft grade or are inventing a new one in thier head. He was never a late round project. If he would have gone to the Giants in the late first round, as many were suggesting he would fall, you might have been talking about him as a budding star. Did the Raiders reach for DHB? Absolutely. Does that make the pick already doomed for failure? I don't think so. He is nothing like that lazy bum LSU QB we drafted in 07. DHB is a very smart, hard working, humble guy. I would not bet against him.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

I agree, but what is it about DHB's skill set and or history including a year in the NFL shows that he is going to be anything but a stretch the field player? People have no choice but to sit back and hope and want him to succeed, but his chances of having much fantasy impact are slim. He will be inconsistent at best and then more excuses will come, and when Campbell is done his stop gap stint in Oakland there will be a rookie trying to work the ball into DBH and more excuses will come.

You realize it has been ONE year for DHB in the NFL and he was playing with what is being called the biggest bust of a QB ever, right? I need a jump to conclusions mat as well.

The most accurate predictor of future behavior is past behavior. DHB has NEVER producted at the college or NFL level. He has a history of putting up mediocre stats, struggling with drops, and underachieving considering his physical ability. There is nothing that would cause you to conclude that all of a sudden he will set the world on fire in a poor organization, with a poor QB, poor line, and questionable coaching. The logical prediction is that he will keep on being what he always has been...a mediocre deep threat with questionable hands.Now you are welcome to predict success, but there isn't much there that would cause someone to agree with you. And you hardly have the facts to start making patronizing statements to those that actually have a logical argument.

I am not predicting success, I am just not about to predict utter failure for his entire career after one year of playing with the Raiders and Jamarcus Russell.I find it somewhat humourous that DHB was known as a player who will take time to develop, and many people are now forgetting this after a poor season and writing him off as a bust already. What happened to allowing him time to develop like most scouts and pundits suggested he would need?It seems people want to label DHB a bust as soon as they can cause he was a player that a poor organization reached on and seems people want blood on the Raiders organization so that they can pile it on. It is not DHB's fault the Raiders reached for him, but that doesn't mean that the expectations for DHB should be altered. He was a late first round grade and a player in need of development. Let him actually develop before casting judgment.

 

[MAC_32]

He was never a late round project.

To some, yes. I thought he was a later round project though, that's where most guys with measurables that lack production go. I figured in January when his hype wasn't real strong that it would change significantly between then and April. It did, and even more than I thought it would. My expectations for him aren't much different than most later round projects, small chance of production and a greater chance of never being anything. I think it's even harder for a guy like DHB because unlike those later round projects he is constantly pressured with high expectations whereas those later round guys have nothing to lose and no pressure.In a vacuum, I see very little difference between him and Carlton Mitchell...except one was a top 10 pick and the other is a round 6 afterthought.

 

[massraider]

He was never a late round project.

To some, yes.

To all. No one was ranking him as a late rounder. If he had gone 23rd, no one would have blinked.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

He was never a late round project.

To some, yes. I thought he was a later round project though, that's where most guys with measurables that lack production go. I figured in January when his hype wasn't real strong that it would change significantly between then and April. It did, and even more than I thought it would. My expectations for him aren't much different than most later round projects, small chance of production and a greater chance of never being anything. I think it's even harder for a guy like DHB because unlike those later round projects he is constantly pressured with high expectations whereas those later round guys have nothing to lose and no pressure.In a vacuum, I see very little difference between him and Carlton Mitchell...except one was a top 10 pick and the other is a round 6 afterthought.

So you put Bey Bey Thomas where then???

 

[MAC_32]

He was never a late round project.

To some, yes.

To all. No one was ranking him as a late rounder. If he had gone 23rd, no one would have blinked.

I don't remember exactly what I wrote, but any comments I would have made about him between January and April would have consisted of the following phrases-All measurables, no production-Failed the eye test multiple times-Troy Williamson Part 2-Will be a high riser in the offseason because of his measurables I know in my rookie rankings I had him behind guys like Dillard, Mike Thomas, Collie, Wallace, Knox, and Brandon Tate.So, yes, he was in my eyes always a later rounder.

 

[MAC_32]

He was never a late round project.

To some, yes. I thought he was a later round project though, that's where most guys with measurables that lack production go. I figured in January when his hype wasn't real strong that it would change significantly between then and April. It did, and even more than I thought it would. My expectations for him aren't much different than most later round projects, small chance of production and a greater chance of never being anything. I think it's even harder for a guy like DHB because unlike those later round projects he is constantly pressured with high expectations whereas those later round guys have nothing to lose and no pressure.In a vacuum, I see very little difference between him and Carlton Mitchell...except one was a top 10 pick and the other is a round 6 afterthought.

So you put Bey Bey Thomas where then???

In a startup IDP dyno he went in the 33rd round, he had just entered my queue of players to consider after I drafted the guy I mentioned above, Carlton Mitchell, and took a backup LB, Demorrio Williams.Basically, I think he's appropriately valued now.

 

[anakin]

He was never a late round project.

To some, yes.

To all. No one was ranking him as a late rounder. If he had gone 23rd, no one would have blinked.

I don't remember exactly what I wrote, but any comments I would have made about him between January and April would have consisted of the following phrases-All measurables, no production-Failed the eye test multiple times-Troy Williamson Part 2-Will be a high riser in the offseason because of his measurables I know in my rookie rankings I had him behind guys like Dillard, Mike Thomas, Collie, Wallace, Knox, and Brandon Tate.So, yes, he was in my eyes always a later rounder.

So you had him ranked below Dillard, Mike Thomas, Collie, Wallace, Knox, and Brandon Tate. Kiper, Mayock, and the rest of the draftniks had him as a 1st rounder. What on your resume makes you an expert over them? NYG and Baltimore were said to be considering taking him late in the first if he went that far. You may be right, but stating because you had him as not a first rounder, we should all just listen does not give merit to your argument.

 

[massraider]

He was never a late round project.

To some, yes.

To all. No one was ranking him as a late rounder. If he had gone 23rd, no one would have blinked.

I don't remember exactly what I wrote, but any comments I would have made about him between January and April would have consisted of the following phrases-All measurables, no production-Failed the eye test multiple times-Troy Williamson Part 2-Will be a high riser in the offseason because of his measurables I know in my rookie rankings I had him behind guys like Dillard, Mike Thomas, Collie, Wallace, Knox, and Brandon Tate.So, yes, he was in my eyes always a later rounder.

That's cool, and you may very well turn out to be right. And frankly, you will always be able to find someone that doesn't like someone. And DHB was certainly labeled a bust candidate before the draft. What he wasn't, was a late round prospect. To you? Sure. But he was a late-first prospect. And to pretend that he was only a first rounder to 'some' is disingenuous.

 

[netnalp]

DHB owners will be in agony when each game Campbell misses on the one time there's deep & wide open DHB. Just like he did with Moss, though Moss would be wide open 2-3 times and Campbell couldn't make a good throw.

 

[MAC_32]

So you had him ranked below Dillard, Mike Thomas, Collie, Wallace, Knox, and Brandon Tate. Kiper, Mayock, and the rest of the draftniks had him as a 1st rounder. What on your resume makes you an expert over them? NYG and Baltimore were said to be considering taking him late in the first if he went that far. You may be right, but stating because you had him as not a first rounder, we should all just listen does not give merit to your argument.

Treating my opinion as gospel would be just as stupid as treating Mayock or Kiper's. The best advice I think I give is to formulate your own opinion, take opinion's of those you respect into consideration, and then come to a conclusion. Taking other opinion's into account first creates a bias, if you make your own and then research I think your decision making will improve.I didn't like DHB the prospect, relatively speaking anyway, and I think there was a lot of evidence to support that opinion. He is big and fast and produced what little stats he had in school because he was a superior athlete, not because he was a good player. Nothing's changed since. There will be times my opinion does change on a prospect, Nicks and Felix Jones stand out, guys I really wasn't too hot on coming out of school but have shown some things since to make me a believer. If DHB fixes some of his weaknesses my opinion may change about him too, haven't seen anything to lead me to think that will happen though.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

He was never a late round project.

To some, yes. I thought he was a later round project though, that's where most guys with measurables that lack production go. I figured in January when his hype wasn't real strong that it would change significantly between then and April. It did, and even more than I thought it would. My expectations for him aren't much different than most later round projects, small chance of production and a greater chance of never being anything. I think it's even harder for a guy like DHB because unlike those later round projects he is constantly pressured with high expectations whereas those later round guys have nothing to lose and no pressure.In a vacuum, I see very little difference between him and Carlton Mitchell...except one was a top 10 pick and the other is a round 6 afterthought.

So you put Bey Bey Thomas where then???

In a startup IDP dyno he went in the 33rd round, he had just entered my queue of players to consider after I drafted the guy I mentioned above, Carlton Mitchell, and took a backup LB, Demorrio Williams.Basically, I think he's appropriately valued now.

So you have Demaryius Thomas ranked where in this draft class? Behind Carlton Mitchell and who else?

 

[anakin]

So you had him ranked below Dillard, Mike Thomas, Collie, Wallace, Knox, and Brandon Tate. Kiper, Mayock, and the rest of the draftniks had him as a 1st rounder. What on your resume makes you an expert over them? NYG and Baltimore were said to be considering taking him late in the first if he went that far. You may be right, but stating because you had him as not a first rounder, we should all just listen does not give merit to your argument.

Treating my opinion as gospel would be just as stupid as treating Mayock or Kiper's. The best advice I think I give is to formulate your own opinion, take opinion's of those you respect into consideration, and then come to a conclusion. Taking other opinion's into account first creates a bias, if you make your own and then research I think your decision making will improve.I didn't like DHB the prospect, relatively speaking anyway, and I think there was a lot of evidence to support that opinion. He is big and fast and produced what little stats he had in school because he was a superior athlete, not because he was a good player. Nothing's changed since. There will be times my opinion does change on a prospect, Nicks and Felix Jones stand out, guys I really wasn't too hot on coming out of school but have shown some things since to make me a believer. If DHB fixes some of his weaknesses my opinion may change about him too, haven't seen anything to lead me to think that will happen though.

What decision making are you referring to? I now own DHB because he was a throw in for a trade I made to acquire Zack Miller (Oak) for Hines Ward and Shockey in a dynasty league. I understand the "if everyone is thinking, then no one is thinking" point of view. However ESPN has decided that Mel Kiper is a credible source of draft information and NFLN has decided the same for Mike Mayock, until you generate some draft cred yourself I will find it hard to take your knowledge in comparison with the others that have a network or a magazine backing them. How well did you do compared to Kiper, Mayock, Scott Wright, Russ Lande, or Shane Hallam (an internet guy who won $1500 predicting the draft this year)? To alude that your analysis compares to any of these guys because you didn't like DHB is either delusional or misguided. I don't have time to do my own analysis. I choose to watch some bowl games, the combine, and read a lot of blogs to make my decision. I subcribe to footballguys and another site to get my information. Good luck

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

So you had him ranked below Dillard, Mike Thomas, Collie, Wallace, Knox, and Brandon Tate. Kiper, Mayock, and the rest of the draftniks had him as a 1st rounder. What on your resume makes you an expert over them? NYG and Baltimore were said to be considering taking him late in the first if he went that far. You may be right, but stating because you had him as not a first rounder, we should all just listen does not give merit to your argument.

Treating my opinion as gospel would be just as stupid as treating Mayock or Kiper's. The best advice I think I give is to formulate your own opinion, take opinion's of those you respect into consideration, and then come to a conclusion. Taking other opinion's into account first creates a bias, if you make your own and then research I think your decision making will improve.I didn't like DHB the prospect, relatively speaking anyway, and I think there was a lot of evidence to support that opinion. He is big and fast and produced what little stats he had in school because he was a superior athlete, not because he was a good player. Nothing's changed since. There will be times my opinion does change on a prospect, Nicks and Felix Jones stand out, guys I really wasn't too hot on coming out of school but have shown some things since to make me a believer. If DHB fixes some of his weaknesses my opinion may change about him too, haven't seen anything to lead me to think that will happen though.

What decision making are you referring to? I now own DHB because he was a throw in for a trade I made to acquire Zack Miller (Oak) for Hines Ward and Shockey in a dynasty league. I understand the "if everyone is thinking, then no one is thinking" point of view. However ESPN has decided that Mel Kiper is a credible source of draft information and NFLN has decided the same for Mike Mayock, until you generate some draft cred yourself I will find it hard to take your knowledge in comparison with the others that have a network or a magazine backing them. How well did you do compared to Kiper, Mayock, Scott Wright, Russ Lande, or Shane Hallam (an internet guy who won $1500 predicting the draft this year)? To alude that your analysis compares to any of these guys because you didn't like DHB is either delusional or misguided. I don't have time to do my own analysis. I choose to watch some bowl games, the combine, and read a lot of blogs to make my decision. I subcribe to footballguys and another site to get my information. Good luck

 

[The Real Hipster Doofus]

He was never a late round project.

To some, yes. I thought he was a later round project though, that's where most guys with measurables that lack production go. I figured in January when his hype wasn't real strong that it would change significantly between then and April. It did, and even more than I thought it would. My expectations for him aren't much different than most later round projects, small chance of production and a greater chance of never being anything. I think it's even harder for a guy like DHB because unlike those later round projects he is constantly pressured with high expectations whereas those later round guys have nothing to lose and no pressure.In a vacuum, I see very little difference between him and Carlton Mitchell...except one was a top 10 pick and the other is a round 6 afterthought.

Well that is a big difference. You don't think a 1st round pick as a general rule is given many more opportunities to succeed than a 6th round pick? A 6th rounder doesn't pick things up fast and he is gone after training camp. 1st rounders are given a much bigger leash. DHB sucks it up? He will still be force fed opportunities for the next 3-4 years, as we saw with Russell. For the record I am not terribly high on DHB, but the considering what his price is right now I have been trying to acquire him in just about every league. The guys value is sitting somewhere around Brian Hartline, and you know he will be given every chance to be succesful in Oakland. He's worth the small risk at that price.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

To come into this thread and claim that DHB had a 6th round grade (in your opinion) is about as credible as someone else going into a JaMarcus Russell thread and claim he knew all along that Russell was a UFA grade QB. Consensus opinion of the experts at the time is always more valuable than a rouge opinion of someone after the fact.

Whatever the reason for not liking DHB, no one can deny he is in a good situation, and he is undervalued in FF right now. Until the market correction comes, he's a good buy and hold. As someone stated earlier, as a former #1 draft pick, he will be given many chances at it until he is considered a flop.

 

[MAC_32]

He was never a late round project.

To some, yes. I thought he was a later round project though, that's where most guys with measurables that lack production go. I figured in January when his hype wasn't real strong that it would change significantly between then and April. It did, and even more than I thought it would. My expectations for him aren't much different than most later round projects, small chance of production and a greater chance of never being anything. I think it's even harder for a guy like DHB because unlike those later round projects he is constantly pressured with high expectations whereas those later round guys have nothing to lose and no pressure.In a vacuum, I see very little difference between him and Carlton Mitchell...except one was a top 10 pick and the other is a round 6 afterthought.

So you put Bey Bey Thomas where then???

In a startup IDP dyno he went in the 33rd round, he had just entered my queue of players to consider after I drafted the guy I mentioned above, Carlton Mitchell, and took a backup LB, Demorrio Williams.Basically, I think he's appropriately valued now.

So you have Demaryius Thomas ranked where in this draft class? Behind Carlton Mitchell and who else?

No, they are nothing alike. Thomas was productive in the little opportunities he received in school, you know that, you're just fishing.

 

[Balco]

I am in the camp that thinks Louis Murphy is the receiver to own in Oakland, and he could be had for nothing, apparently.

I liked what I saw of him in the Florida games I saw (thought he was a better pure receiver than HArvin). Haven't caught a ton of Raider games but from what Raider fans have told me is he has been having some problems with drops? Can anyone confirm this?

 

[MAC_32]

So you had him ranked below Dillard, Mike Thomas, Collie, Wallace, Knox, and Brandon Tate. Kiper, Mayock, and the rest of the draftniks had him as a 1st rounder. What on your resume makes you an expert over them? NYG and Baltimore were said to be considering taking him late in the first if he went that far. You may be right, but stating because you had him as not a first rounder, we should all just listen does not give merit to your argument.

Treating my opinion as gospel would be just as stupid as treating Mayock or Kiper's. The best advice I think I give is to formulate your own opinion, take opinion's of those you respect into consideration, and then come to a conclusion. Taking other opinion's into account first creates a bias, if you make your own and then research I think your decision making will improve.I didn't like DHB the prospect, relatively speaking anyway, and I think there was a lot of evidence to support that opinion. He is big and fast and produced what little stats he had in school because he was a superior athlete, not because he was a good player. Nothing's changed since. There will be times my opinion does change on a prospect, Nicks and Felix Jones stand out, guys I really wasn't too hot on coming out of school but have shown some things since to make me a believer. If DHB fixes some of his weaknesses my opinion may change about him too, haven't seen anything to lead me to think that will happen though.

What decision making are you referring to? I now own DHB because he was a throw in for a trade I made to acquire Zack Miller (Oak) for Hines Ward and Shockey in a dynasty league. I understand the "if everyone is thinking, then no one is thinking" point of view. However ESPN has decided that Mel Kiper is a credible source of draft information and NFLN has decided the same for Mike Mayock, until you generate some draft cred yourself I will find it hard to take your knowledge in comparison with the others that have a network or a magazine backing them. How well did you do compared to Kiper, Mayock, Scott Wright, Russ Lande, or Shane Hallam (an internet guy who won $1500 predicting the draft this year)? To alude that your analysis compares to any of these guys because you didn't like DHB is either delusional or misguided. I don't have time to do my own analysis. I choose to watch some bowl games, the combine, and read a lot of blogs to make my decision. I subcribe to footballguys and another site to get my information. Good luck

I didn't predict the draft, I don't see how predicting a draft makes one person a better talent evaluator than another. I make my own evaluations and constantly re-evaluate those evaluations until I am confident I know what type of player somebody is. If you really want to nit pick my critique of players you can search my old posts, just like all the others you cited (except for Scott Wright, who is a copy-and-paste hack) I'm wrong about some guys but I'm right a lot more often than I'm wrong.If you got DHB as a throw in then you paid proper value for him in my eyes, good job.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

No, they are nothing alike. Thomas was productive in the little opportunities he received in school, you know that, you're just fishing.

I'm fishing....your the one self proclaiming in here. I'm giving u a platform to reach your desired entitlement.

 

[MAC_32]

You don't think a 1st round pick as a general rule is given many more opportunities to succeed than a 6th round pick?

...and I said that when?

 

[MAC_32]

Consensus opinion of the experts at the time is always more valuable than a rouge opinion of someone after the fact.

If you want to think like everyone else and be content with average then that's the attitude to have...and while my opinion may have been a bit rogue it was not after the fact.

 

[MAC_32]

I am in the camp that thinks Louis Murphy is the receiver to own in Oakland, and he could be had for nothing, apparently.I liked what I saw of him in the Florida games I saw (thought he was a better pure receiver than HArvin). Haven't caught a ton of Raider games but from what Raider fans have told me is he has been having some problems with drops? Can anyone confirm this?

He has the looks of a complimentary WR, not a #1. He played better last year than I thought he would, he's just not consistent enough to be the lead guy in a WR corps. Schilens? He could be, and he's the guy on the Raiders I'd be going after. He's probably more likely to end up on the IR before November, but if one guy's going to do it I would be betting on him. All of these guys except for Miller can be had as throw-in's right now.

 

[The Real Hipster Doofus]

You don't think a 1st round pick as a general rule is given many more opportunities to succeed than a 6th round pick?

...and I said that when?

When you said there was little difference between DHB and Carlton Mitchell. There is no looking at things in a vacuum, DHB was a 1st rounder and Mitchell a 6th round pick, and because of that DHB will have significantly more leeway. I am simply saying that you can't make the statement that you did.

 

[MAC_32]

No, they are nothing alike. Thomas was productive in the little opportunities he received in school, you know that, you're just fishing.

I'm fishing....your the one self proclaiming in here. I'm giving u a platform to reach your desired entitlement.

Not after entitlement, I just don't get why people around here have this fascination with piling on when someone dare offers an alternative opinion to the consensus. Groupthink ensures you of being as good but no better than everyone else.If you were looking for an all skills and no production comparison to DHB then the guy this year is Benn, who I feel similarly as I do DHB and am not targeting anywhere. Maybe next year after his value nosedives when he doesn't do much this year, we'll see...

 

[MAC_32]

You don't think a 1st round pick as a general rule is given many more opportunities to succeed than a 6th round pick?

...and I said that when?

When you said there was little difference between DHB and Carlton Mitchell. There is no looking at things in a vacuum, DHB was a 1st rounder and Mitchell a 6th round pick, and because of that DHB will have significantly more leeway. I am simply saying that you can't make the statement that you did.

I was referring to the prospect, on paper. They are very, very similar players in just about every aspect.

 

[The Real Hipster Doofus]

You don't think a 1st round pick as a general rule is given many more opportunities to succeed than a 6th round pick?

...and I said that when?

When you said there was little difference between DHB and Carlton Mitchell. There is no looking at things in a vacuum, DHB was a 1st rounder and Mitchell a 6th round pick, and because of that DHB will have significantly more leeway. I am simply saying that you can't make the statement that you did.

I was referring to the prospect, on paper. They are very, very similar players in just about every aspect.

I get that, but the comparison doesn't work for me. DHB, on paper, had a 1st or 2nd round grade by just about every draft expert (and likely a lot of teams). Mitchell may have had a grade higher than the 6th round on some teams boards, but he went in the 6th. So despite the fact that they are both tall, fast, lanky and were very unproductive at the college level, DHB went in the 1st while Mitchell went in the 6th. They can't be all that similar then.

 

[OnThInIcE911]

lol at Mac_32

I'd rather be average at FF by listening to experts than terrible because I completely ignore the opinions of those paid to make them.

Troy Williamson still probably has more value than Cartlon Mitchell every will.