Darrius Heyward-Bay...What to expect the rest of the way? (1 Viewer)

[orion]

The guy has the speed and is stepping into a great spot but has hands of stone. Can he put it all together and be a solid #3 the rest of the way? What is he worth?

 

[pbandy1]

His value goes up obviously but the guy just can't catch the ball consistently. I still don't trust him.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Hit n miss just like his career. Yu'll start him he'll crap the bed and then the next week you bench him and he has 15-18 points.

He's an FF cancer on any team. Let someone else try and figure it out.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I doubt it, but I don't have a crystal ball up my ###.

all they have to do is reroute about 8 tgts/game, and that's pretty easy to do when you add a body.

if he even gets a couple extra targets what difference is that really going to make?

 

[cstu]

Hit n miss just like his career. Yu'll start him he'll crap the bed and then the next week you bench him and he has 15-18 points.

He's an FF cancer on any team. Let someone else try and figure it out.

I agree with this. I don't see a matchup the rest of the way that even looks attractive.

 

[Not Sleeping]

Hit n miss just like his career. Yu'll start him he'll crap the bed and then the next week you bench him and he has 15-18 points.

He's an FF cancer on any team. Let someone else try and figure it out.

I agree with this. I don't see a matchup the rest of the way that even looks attractive.

That's for sure. Bye this week, and then 4 of the next 5 weeks are with teams in the toughest 5 against WR's in terms of fantasy points allowed.

I picked him up anyway just to see how it goes though (I lost out on all the waiver claims that I actually wanted).

 

[duaneok66]

Good luck to those that are brave enough to start him.

 

[Warrior]

You guys need to join deeper, more competitive leagues.

DHB is waiver wire gold in all of mine. Or should I saw "was"...he's been owned in almost all of them most of the season. Picked up for crazy FAAB $ in the few where he wasn't

 

[Stealthycat]

"hands of stone"

research this year and last and compare him to Hands of Stone TY Hilton ....

to answer the question - he'll be a fine WR to play

 

[orion]

Hey, thanks for the input fella's. I have the top waiver pick this week and I'm considering dropping Thompkins for him. Just have not seen enough of him to make up my mind yet.Still might go for it.

 

[prgromek]

WR3 with WR2 upside

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Manos De Piedra

 

[Raiderfan32904]

You guys need to join deeper, more competitive leagues.

DHB is waiver wire gold in all of mine. Or should I saw "was"...he's been owned in almost all of them most of the season. Picked up for crazy FAAB $ in the few where he wasn't

You ain't kidding about the crazy FAAB bids. People were spending their last dollar trying to get him on last night's waivers. I don't think that's any great sign that the league is competitive if sharks think DHB is some ROY prize.

Like said one post above: Manos di piedra, should have been a boxer instead of a WR.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

I've been a huge DHB critic since he came into the league, but I was mildly impressed with what I saw from him this year. To me, a bigger flaw than his hands, has been his football IQ. It almost seems like he's made some strides on that front this year. He doesn't look lost on the field. So, IMO, he's well worth a shot.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

You guys need to join deeper, more competitive leagues.

DHB is waiver wire gold in all of mine. Or should I saw "was"...he's been owned in almost all of them most of the season. Picked up for crazy FAAB $ in the few where he wasn't

You ain't kidding about the crazy FAAB bids. People were spending their last dollar trying to get him on last night's waivers. I don't think that's any great sign that the league is competitive if sharks think DHB is some ROY prize.

Like said one post above: Manos di piedra, should have been a boxer instead of a WR.

He was available in one of my leagues, out of 10-12 I try to play in a couple local beer bar leagues and I make no apologies about it. Sure it's fun to be in super competitive leagues like the FFPC for example with thousands of my closest friends but it also is nice to be in a league where there are options.

Also I play in some very competitive leagues with short benches meaning teams with 14 and 16 man rosters, you can't stockpile that way and it also gives owners a few options when they get hit with the injury bug.

 

[fightingillini]

Why not pick him up and see what happens? It's very likely that he's going to get more opportunities now that Wayne is out and IND can't run the ball consistently.

I dont' necessarily trust him, but going forward he has to be a WR4 at worst, with upside.

I picked him up and plan on starting him next week when I have D Thomas and Blackmon on bye.

 

[Chaka]

I see a lot of "Hands of Stone" comments but I am not certain that holds up to scrutiny. I cannot account for the reliability of sportingcharts.com but they seem to be the only place I could find that compiles drop statistics so I'm going to use their data (would love to see some other data on this topic).

2009-2013 Data below (2013 on top)

RANK = Worst to best (i.e. 149th = 149th worst player for drop %)

NOTABLE PLAYERS = Players that rank around the same drop % as DHB

RANKED BY DROP %

REC DROPS TARGETS TARGET% DROP% RANK NOTABLE PLAYERS18 1 35 51.4 2.9 149 Dez, Andre Johnson, Julio41 5 80 51.3 6.3 146 S.Moss, Dez, Decker, Julio, Colston64 6 115 55.7 5.2 179 V.Jax, S.Moss26 3 65 40 4.6 190 Colston, Bowe9 6 40 22.5 15 32 He was the worst notable WR BY TARGET % (Note that the RANK is a bit skewed because if a guy like Spenser Larsen was targeted one time and made the reception he will get a 100% and will be ranked #1, this really deflates the rankings)

REC DROPS TARGETS TARGET% DROP% RANK NOTABLE PLAYERS18 1 35 51.4 2.9 259 S.Johnson, T.Smith, Hilton, Calvin41 5 80 51.3 6.3 330 Bowe, D.Jax, Nicks, S.Smith64 6 115 55.7 5.2 284 D.Jax, Roddy, A.Brown, A.Collie26 3 65 40 4.6 374 S.Rice, D.Stallworth,9 6 40 22.5 15 389 Worst notable playerI am not saying he is the next Steve Largent or anything like that but rumors of his bad hands may be a little exaggerated.

Playing for the Raiders from '09-12 probably didn't help him much. They were poorly coached, often had a bottom 5 offensive line, had no notable weapons consistently opposite of him (McFadden was part time and Z.Miller before Palmer was about it) and an above average QB for only the last 1 1/2 years.

I think he is worth a WW pickup.

 

[massraider]

The bad hands thing is definitely exaggerated. As is the speed. At some point, you forget Combine, and look to see who is fast on the field.

DHB is average in every way, and really unfortunately, not natural at anything to do with WR. He has worked very had to become average, and he catches most of the ones he is supposed to. And they are all within ten yards of the line of scrimmage, and he doesn't do anything after that. He plays with a darn good QB, so he won't be useless, but I'd rather pick up Brazil as a flier.

 

[cstu]

The bad hands thing is definitely exaggerated. As is the speed. At some point, you forget Combine, and look to see who is fast on the field.

DHB is average in every way, and really unfortunately, not natural at anything to do with WR. He has worked very had to become average, and he catches most of the ones he is supposed to. And they are all within ten yards of the line of scrimmage, and he doesn't do anything after that. He plays with a darn good QB, so he won't be useless, but I'd rather pick up Brazil as a flier.

He has speed that's not over-rated IMO. His dump off TD and 30 yard run were direct results of his speed.

What I haven't seen him do is beat people past 10 yards and catch the ball. Maybe it's coming but he hasn't caught a 20 yard pass all year.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

The end arounds really play to his advantage. Also he can be of use on quick sideline stop and go routes. He runs some of the prettiest routes downfield and can't really improve on getting to the spot where the ball is going to be. Just can't catch the ball with his shoulder turned away from the ball. Needs to face up the QB and stare the ball into his chestplate. I don't think the lack of hands is overstated. It's not like he can't corral the tough passes, it's just that the payoff percentage is too low and deep patterns to DHB are too low percentage to take too many of these shots, without risking 3rd and longs.

 

[cstu]

The end arounds really play to his advantage. Also he can be of use on quick sideline stop and go routes. He runs some of the prettiest routes downfield and can't really improve on getting to the spot where the ball is going to be. Just can't catch the ball with his shoulder turned away from the ball. Needs to face up the QB and stare the ball into his chestplate. I don't think the lack of hands is overstated. It's not like he can't corral the tough passes, it's just that the payoff percentage is too low and deep patterns to DHB are too low percentage to take too many of these shots, without risking 3rd and longs.

I agree.

 

[Chaka]

I'd rather pick up Brazil as a flier.

This makes no sense to me. The guy has done nothing...ever. It's not like Porkins in GB who has tremendous value going forward but it took two injuries to put him in that position and a third significant injury to keep him there.

Even with Wayne's injury Brazil may not even be the fourth WR/TE option for the Colts going forward let alone the 4th passing option.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

This thread has me going for DHB now.

He played with some poor QBs at Oak and it was a bad FF situation. I did see drops, I saw enough Oakland games and they happened, even with Palmer. Maybe it was the when and how, and the fact there was so much focus on him from the beginning, that got him the rep, not the quantity.

With Luck and that winning team I think he's worth a shot.

 

[massraider]

This thread has me going for DHB now.

He played with some poor QBs at Oak and it was a bad FF situation. I did see drops, I saw enough Oakland games and they happened, even with Palmer. Maybe it was the when and how, and the fact there was so much focus on him from the beginning, that got him the rep, not the quantity.

With Luck and that winning team I think he's worth a shot.

It's that why he's been tearing it up this year?

 

[Chaka]

This thread has me going for DHB now.

He played with some poor QBs at Oak and it was a bad FF situation. I did see drops, I saw enough Oakland games and they happened, even with Palmer. Maybe it was the when and how, and the fact there was so much focus on him from the beginning, that got him the rep, not the quantity.

With Luck and that winning team I think he's worth a shot.

It's that why he's been tearing it up this year?

Indy is bottom 10 in pass attempts and he was the #3 receiving option on the team. What more would you expect from that role?

 

[massraider]

This thread has me going for DHB now.

He played with some poor QBs at Oak and it was a bad FF situation. I did see drops, I saw enough Oakland games and they happened, even with Palmer. Maybe it was the when and how, and the fact there was so much focus on him from the beginning, that got him the rep, not the quantity.

With Luck and that winning team I think he's worth a shot.

It's that why he's been tearing it up this year?

Indy is bottom 10 in pass attempts and he was the #3 receiving option on the team. What more would you expect from that role?

Excuse me.

I don'r expect a thing from him beyond short catches, immediate tackles, and the occasional average game. And it really doesn't matter which # option he is. Because he is what he is. Not good.

The Colts will still toss a screen his way, hoping to spring him for a big gain. It's the best way to get a big gain from him, because throwing the ball down the field doesn't seem to be an option.

Before this season, it was, he's going to be a starting WR for Luck! He was keeping Hilton the bench! They are throwing him screens! He was out of Oakland, where the ghost of Al Davis was keeping him from ever doing anything special, ever.

Turns out, the new coaching staff wanted to take th ball out of the hands of the best QB prospect since Elway, and DHB can only hope for the passing yards and targets he had in Oakland.

I'm trying to prevent the previous poster from making a mistake.

 

[Longtucky Lemmings]

Seems the coaching staff and the guy tossing the rock believe in him - remember, despite being new to the team and Hilton's exceptional rookie season DHB managed to "win" the #2 WR spot and maintain it through 7 weeks.

I don't expect world-beating numbers out of this guy given his lack of any world-beating talents....but if he stays healthy he will see heavy targets. His situation as a starter with a coaching staff who is behind him and a quality QB give him immediate WR2 upside in my book. How often can you grab a guy like that off the waivers in deep PPR leagues?

I've bought in and will gladly use him as my WR3/4 in various leagues.

 

[Futz]

Saying he's starting is like putting lipstick on a pig. Soooooooeeeeee There just has to be better options out there.

 

[Longtucky Lemmings]

Saying he's starting is like putting lipstick on a pig. Soooooooeeeeee There just has to be better options out there.

I'm not denying that everything about this guy is unimpressive. HIs stats thus far this season prove that.

All I'm saying is we all though Hilton would smoke him in the pre-season and win the WR2 gig in Indy. He didn't. The coaching staff obviously sees something in DHB they like.

Luck was tossing the ball his way, on average, 5 times a game before Wayne went down. That's not a huge amount of targets, I'll admit.....but Wayne was seeing almost 9 targets a game. Those need to go somewhere else. Given how much the coaching staff like DHB I think it's reasonable to expect he gets at least a third of those targets.

So, now you've got a guy on a good team with a quality QB who is "starting" and likely to see somewhere in the vicinity of 7-9 targets a game.

Playing in a very deep PPR league I see value in that. Again, I'm not expecting him to come in and set the world aflame for me....but getting a guy who can put up WR3-ish numbers with WR2 upside off the waiver wire in Week 8 of the FFPC is something that interests me.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

DHB had a couple great stretches during the 2011 season. He was inexplicably benched during that season (when they brought on Palmer & TJ Houshmanzadeh) if I remember correctly.

The guy has shown stretches that he can perform at a high level. To say he can't is wrong. I think he'll very well be at least a WR3 the rest of the year.

 

[massraider]

Saying he's starting is like putting lipstick on a pig. Soooooooeeeeee There just has to be better options out there.

I'm not denying that everything about this guy is unimpressive. HIs stats thus far this season prove that.

All I'm saying is we all though Hilton would smoke him in the pre-season and win the WR2 gig in Indy. He didn't. The coaching staff obviously sees something in DHB they like.

Luck was tossing the ball his way, on average, 5 times a game before Wayne went down. That's not a huge amount of targets, I'll admit.....but Wayne was seeing almost 9 targets a game. Those need to go somewhere else. Given how much the coaching staff like DHB I think it's reasonable to expect he gets at least a third of those targets.

So, now you've got a guy on a good team with a quality QB who is "starting" and likely to see somewhere in the vicinity of 7-9 targets a game.

Playing in a very deep PPR league I see value in that. Again, I'm not expecting him to come in and set the world aflame for me....but getting a guy who can put up WR3-ish numbers with WR2 upside off the waiver wire in Week 8 of the FFPC is something that interests me.

Man, you are pinning a lot of hope on the idea that the coaching staff loves DHB. What id the team didn't view Hilton as an every down player, and a terrible blocker?

When the team is trying to pass, and score points, they went to Wayne, Hilton, and Fleener. Wayne being hurt doesn't mean DHB is suddenly useful.

I am not seeing the WR2 upside. I see a guy that isn't a deep threat, or an end zone target. He's putting up TE2 numbers, not WR2 numbers.

What's really gonna be dangerous is if DHB has a good game this week. He'll be plugged as a starter in every league. Picture Eddie Royal a month ago.

 

[jurb26]

DHB had a couple great stretches during the 2011 season. He was inexplicably benched during that season (when they brought on Palmer & TJ Houshmanzadeh) if I remember correctly.

The guy has shown stretches that he can perform at a high level. To say he can't is wrong. I think he'll very well be at least a WR3 the rest of the year.

There seems to be an overwhelming ignorance to the facts when people in the SP discuss DHB. No need to derail that now.What's interesting to me is how many leagues seem to have had him on the WW. he wasn't on the WW in a single league I play in.

 

[Chaka]

Saying he's starting is like putting lipstick on a pig. Soooooooeeeeee There just has to be better options out there.

I'm not denying that everything about this guy is unimpressive. HIs stats thus far this season prove that.

All I'm saying is we all though Hilton would smoke him in the pre-season and win the WR2 gig in Indy. He didn't. The coaching staff obviously sees something in DHB they like.

Luck was tossing the ball his way, on average, 5 times a game before Wayne went down. That's not a huge amount of targets, I'll admit.....but Wayne was seeing almost 9 targets a game. Those need to go somewhere else. Given how much the coaching staff like DHB I think it's reasonable to expect he gets at least a third of those targets.

So, now you've got a guy on a good team with a quality QB who is "starting" and likely to see somewhere in the vicinity of 7-9 targets a game.

Playing in a very deep PPR league I see value in that. Again, I'm not expecting him to come in and set the world aflame for me....but getting a guy who can put up WR3-ish numbers with WR2 upside off the waiver wire in Week 8 of the FFPC is something that interests me.

Man, you are pinning a lot of hope on the idea that the coaching staff loves DHB. What id the team didn't view Hilton as an every down player, and a terrible blocker?

When the team is trying to pass, and score points, they went to Wayne, Hilton, and Fleener. Wayne being hurt doesn't mean DHB is suddenly useful.

I am not seeing the WR2 upside. I see a guy that isn't a deep threat, or an end zone target. He's putting up TE2 numbers, not WR2 numbers.

What's really gonna be dangerous is if DHB has a good game this week. He'll be plugged as a starter in every league. Picture Eddie Royal a month ago.

If he gives me 5 TDs in 2 games I'll call it even.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

DHB had a couple great stretches during the 2011 season. He was inexplicably benched during that season (when they brought on Palmer & TJ Houshmanzadeh) if I remember correctly.

The guy has shown stretches that he can perform at a high level. To say he can't is wrong. I think he'll very well be at least a WR3 the rest of the year.

There seems to be an overwhelming ignorance to the facts when people in the SP discuss DHB. No need to derail that now.What's interesting to me is how many leagues seem to have had him on the WW. he wasn't on the WW in a single league I play in.

I would bet he was drafted pretty highly, ie not high in drafts but very frequently.

 

[Bob Magaw]

2011 was the season I remembered...

he did very little in his first two seasons, and probably was burdened with being overdrafted by davis and suffering in the comparison with crabtree...

I didn't see him a lot, but he did seem to fight the ball and have butterfingers downfield... than they started throwing him quick hitting slants, and he began to excell... that was a good fit for him, as he could see the ball in, it wasn't thrown far (within 5-10 yards of LOS?) and he could catch the ball in stride and explode after the catch, leveraging his formidable size-speed combo... he really looked like a completely different WR, like the light went on that season... he didn't follow up, but OAK has been a toxic situation for other players in recent years...

IND signed him to a one year "prove it" contract...

I picked him up a week or two before Wayne injury where he was on waiver wire in a dynasty league that started up this year where I missed getting him in draft, so was happy to see him available...

in dynasty leagues, he is intriguing because it seems like he has been around longer to me, but he is only 26... if he plays well down the stretch, they could sign him to a longer deal... wayne is near 35 and will be coming off a torn ACL, how many years can he keep playing? hilton is talented, but undersized... DHB has close to ideal #1 size at 6'2" 220 lbs, and while he doesn't play big or up to his size always, he makes a nice complement across from hilton... colts do have fleener (and get allen next year), but they aren't jimmy graham kind of super stars...

while the colts are trying to morph into a power running team, we can't forget that luck might be the best young QB prospect in the NFL...

if IND were somehow to rediscover his successful use in 2011 (slant routes), he has tantalizing measurables... there aren't many size-speed specimens like him at WR... at his size (see above - which should also serve to keep him on the field for blocking purposes), he is fast AND quick... ran a personal best 10.44 100 m, and and one of the five fastest 60 m. times in the nation as a prep... clocked a blistering 4.30 at his combine.

the dark side is the down field ball down the right sideline in SD (?) few weeks ago in which he had few strides on the DB, would have been an easy TD, but the ball clanged off his hands like he was the tin man...

but there is a lot to like if the 2011 lightning strikes again...

I agree he could be WR3 with upside if some of wayne's volume shifts in his direction, and things click for him...

 

[BustedKnuckles]

its going to be the TY / Fleener show from here on out...DHB will get the occasional big play

 

[Bob Magaw]

i definitely wouldn't blow up my team to acquire him...

FA $ allocation aside for redraft purposes...

in dynasty, what would he be worth to others, as a draft pick...

maybe those higher on his prospects would say a third, possibly a lower second... those down on his long term prognosis, maybe less than a third?

his projection is clouded in that he isn't a lock to be with luck beyond 2013. i factor that as a negative, which might give me some pause, but i do think he has some factors in terms of measureables and POTENTIAL opportunity that make him intriguing at the right price...

 

[just_want_2_win]

DHB has 35 targets to date and caught 18 (51% catch rate) for 190 yds and 1 TD.

He has 20 touches (rec + ru) on the year for an average of 2.86 per game (which should go up with Wayne gone).

He's averaging .14 TD per game and, non-PPR, gets 1.44 points per touch. By comparison, Megaton gets 2.58 ff points per touch.

 

[acme]

Manos De Piedra

interesting moniker- especially coming from a gringo with your moniker - nudillos rotas

 

[Futz]

Lavon Brazil is the player to own now before everyone sees where the targets will go. By then, it will be too late next week.

 

[Vector]

DHB had a couple great stretches during the 2011 season. He was inexplicably benched during that season (when they brought on Palmer & TJ Houshmanzadeh) if I remember correctly.

The guy has shown stretches that he can perform at a high level. To say he can't is wrong. I think he'll very well be at least a WR3 the rest of the year.

There seems to be an overwhelming ignorance to the facts when people in the SP discuss DHB. No need to derail that now.What's interesting to me is how many leagues seem to have had him on the WW. he wasn't on the WW in a single league I play in.

Of course he wasn't on the WW in any of your leagues... he's on your roster silly.

 

[jurb26]

DHB had a couple great stretches during the 2011 season. He was inexplicably benched during that season (when they brought on Palmer & TJ Houshmanzadeh) if I remember correctly.

The guy has shown stretches that he can perform at a high level. To say he can't is wrong. I think he'll very well be at least a WR3 the rest of the year.

There seems to be an overwhelming ignorance to the facts when people in the SP discuss DHB. No need to derail that now.What's interesting to me is how many leagues seem to have had him on the WW. he wasn't on the WW in a single league I play in.

Of course he wasn't on the WW in any of your leagues... he's on your roster silly.

Nope, I have him in 1 of 8 leagues. I've tried to aquire him but owners have wanted too much. That's definitely not going to change now that Wayne is done.