Rick James
Footballguy
Did you see his 6-minute highlight video posted above? He does more than just run fast. He breaks plenty of tackles.
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***David Wilson Bandwagon*** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Jeff Pasquino
- Start date
Sabertooth
Footballguy
He could potentially bring in RB1 value. I don't think he's any less talented than other small backs McCoy and Charles.
ponchsox
Footballguy
I agree, although he would have to get the lion's share of carries and GL work which remains to be seen. The talent is there to be a RB1.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
I never saw all the Brown supporters. Seemed there was the Wilson= RB1 camp, and everyone else. The former seemed to label latter as blind Brown supporting, Wilson haters. But I never saw that.
Yeah and the way he breaks them is like a jagoff. I dare you to show me one clip where he "jukes" or "spins" out of a tackle. He just recklessly runs straight into defenders from what I've seen.
Sure he punishes defenders with moves like that but he's also punishing himself.
Koya
Footballguy
I agree. He has a good amount of lower body strength and I think he could become a 20-25 touch back in this league. Is he ready this year? Not sure, and I'm not sure the Giants are confident that he's ready either. Hence the role discussion that's been ongoing.
He certainly has better strength than say Tiki Barber, at least IMO, and Tiki had some spectacular years with the Giants.
It's more an issue of is he ready for the 20-25 touch level, how is he and can he sustain the contact on short yardage, more importantly, even if he can, do the Giants even WANT to subject a young and rising potential star to those hits and, of course, how well will he block on a consistent basis in pass protection.
Running wise, he brings just about everything except tremendous straight ahead power.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl4djQM56Pc
Yeah, he has got a lot of speed and when the blocking is absolutely perfect he hits the hole and takes it to the house. But he encourages contact; more or less anytime he gets passed a defender it's because the defender deflects off him. Not because Wilson makes any extra effort on the play to setup a juke or a cut.
His game relies 100% on speed and I think defenses are going to pickup on that. He doesn't have a lot of wiggle to him. If I was playing the Giants, I would tell my defense to go after this kids legs on every single play.
That's not to say if I was Tom Coughlin I wouldn't love to limit his carries to about 8 - 10 throughout a game on designed screens and draws, only to unleash him on a tired defense in the 4th Quarter. But he makes way too much contact as a small running back to be seeing the ball 20 times a game.
Yeah, he has got a lot of speed and when the blocking is absolutely perfect he hits the hole and takes it to the house. But he encourages contact; more or less anytime he gets passed a defender it's because the defender deflects off him. Not because Wilson makes any extra effort on the play to setup a juke or a cut.
His game relies 100% on speed and I think defenses are going to pickup on that. He doesn't have a lot of wiggle to him. If I was playing the Giants, I would tell my defense to go after this kids legs on every single play.
That's not to say if I was Tom Coughlin I wouldn't love to limit his carries to about 8 - 10 throughout a game on designed screens and draws, only to unleash him on a tired defense in the 4th Quarter. But he makes way too much contact as a small running back to be seeing the ball 20 times a game.
David Wilson has tremendous power and balance. He doesn't need spin moves or jukes b/c he keeps his feet and moves forward. Oh, plus he's very fast.
All I'm saying is that all it's going to take is for this guy to get blasted once or twice too hard "sprinting" through a hole before he's a little less hesitant to do so the next time.
There are some big, bad linebackers that would love to take this guy head-on. Sure, maybe Wilson will get by them on a few long Touchdown plays but there's going to be plays where he's met in the backfield.
Also, I haven't forgotten.
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/NY-Giants-RB-David-Wilson-Fumbles-vs-Cowboys.gif
There are some big, bad linebackers that would love to take this guy head-on. Sure, maybe Wilson will get by them on a few long Touchdown plays but there's going to be plays where he's met in the backfield.
Also, I haven't forgotten.
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/NY-Giants-RB-David-Wilson-Fumbles-vs-Cowboys.gif
Look at Wilson's thighs in that .gif compared to Lee's. Wilson is NOT a small guy. At all. He's just a short guy. Like Ray Rice. He's not Warrick Dunn or Darren Sproles. He's 5'9" and 206 lbs.
Khy
Footballguy
Did I click that link and go to a different video or something? Show me the runs where he has "perfect holes". Several runs he literally jumps over people and hits full speed the second he hits the ground. I really don't see how he encourages contact... the only time he does that is when there are 3-4 players all in front of him and there's no where to really go so he'll drop his shoulder and run through them for a few yards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMy1dbFdMd4
The 84 yard TD run is a prime example of this, wait till the replay from behind the defense at the end. The hole he's supposed to hit immediately closes, he makes a jump cut as wide as two offensive lineman and then bolts past the linebackers and defensive backs and runs the ball to the house. David Wilson has every tool to be a RB1 in this league if not one of the more productive runners in the NFL period. If you really want to try to argue his skillsets you're just flat out wrong. Literally the only thing nobody is debating with the guy is his skills. Anyone who has watched his film for more than 30 seconds can see he has the speed and agility of Spiller and the power of Rice and somehow he's one human.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Then you weren't following the thread very closely or carefully. There were a minimum of 3 camps: 1) Wilson = RB1, 2) Brown is better than Wilson, 3) Wilson is clearly more talented but needs to learn pass protection & even then Brown will get a sizeable chunk of touches.Concept Coop said:
Concept Coop
Footballguy
That's a matter of perception. In truth, we're all our own camps. Just making an observation based on my own.
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
If you want him as your RB3/flex you better start your draft RB-RB-RB.ponchsox said:
I think Im at the point now where Im fine with picking him as my RB2, but I want a nice safety valve behind him at RB3.
It's guys like Eminence that allows the smart owners to grab these future studs and win championships. We can't all be sharks. He's probably finally convinced that Frank Gore is for real and is ready to jump on the bandwagon.
Monsters of the Midway
Footballguy
Have we really gotten to the point of saying
- He's too explosive for his own good, he won't be able to keep that up!
- He hasn't had durability problems before but he's going to get hit a lot!
- Jahvid Best was fast too look how that turned out! (sans horrible concussions)
- He's too explosive for his own good, he won't be able to keep that up!
- He hasn't had durability problems before but he's going to get hit a lot!
- Jahvid Best was fast too look how that turned out! (sans horrible concussions)
rizzler
Footballguy
He's my flex and I could NOT be happier.
Realistically speaking - I expect 15-20 touches a game. Rarely will we see more than 20, unless situation absolutely dictates.
He's a homerun threat on every carry, but that's not even the point.
He reminds me of MJD and CJ2K wrapped into one bundle. Power from hell, and speed/elusiveness like lightening.
Of course, Im not saying he's a better back than them yet, but that's what I see when he runs.
Realistically speaking - I expect 15-20 touches a game. Rarely will we see more than 20, unless situation absolutely dictates.
He's a homerun threat on every carry, but that's not even the point.
He reminds me of MJD and CJ2K wrapped into one bundle. Power from hell, and speed/elusiveness like lightening.
Of course, Im not saying he's a better back than them yet, but that's what I see when he runs.
Rick James
Footballguy
man, can't believe this guy's running skills are even being debated.
Drew the 12th pick in a redraft and considering taking him at 2.01 paired up with a stud WR or Graham. I don't really like the other RB's likely to be available at that spot (maybe Forte or Chris Johnson if they are there) and I think it's unlikely he will be there at the 3/4 turn after that huge run this weekend.
You would (maybe) take David Wilson over Chris Johnson, Matt Forte, Maurice Jones-Drew, etc?
rizzler
Footballguy
Grahamburn
Footballguy
An 84 yard TD run really gets this place in a tizzy...
Concept Coop
Footballguy
I'd agree with this. I think they run enough for Wilson to get 15-20. I don't see MJD+CJ, though. Not at an NFL level, at least. CJ has another gear, and Wilson hasn't looked MJD-like to me at all. MJD is so strong and powerful. Wilson has been pretty feast or famine, thus far in his early NFL career. He's got the potential to be a stronger runner than he's shown, at this level. But very few are on MJD's and Wilson isn't on that list for me.
It feels like the calm before the strom, now. I am starting to think we're going to see a top 5-7 season, or hear how overrated this guy is all season. As a football and fantasy fan, it's pretty exciting.
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Khy
Footballguy
Pretty much exactly what I'm seeing every time I watch him with the ball in his hands.
- He's faster than most defensive players on the field
- The ones he isn't faster than he can run through
- The ones he can't run through he can out maneuver.
So... am I taking him in the first or second round this season? Absolutely not. However, I'm willing to reach for Wilson in the 3rd round as my RB2 or 3 if I went RB-RB-RB and then draft someone else to hedge my bets against him failing. In one of my drafts I went Charles > Ridley > Wilson... I could have drafted a better WR than Wilson but honestly Wilson's upside is as high as RB1 in my opinion. He has all the talent in the world it's just a matter of the stars aligning in his opportunity. If they don't align? He's a low-RB2 high-RB3 at worst. If they do hit who knows what this kids ceiling is right now.
As for his scoring... lets look at it this way, the Giants have been the #9 (2011) and #6 (2012) in scoring the past two seasons with a peace meal rushing attack. They could easily be a Top 3 scoring offense if not the top scoring offense this year with a good rushing attack. This offense should be incredibly volatile if Cruz, Nicks, Randle stay healthy and Wilson hits.
In the end, I'm reaching for Wilson because I foresee a Top 5 season this year and a LOT of people eating their own foot who drafted or reached for Brown and only get 150 carries this season.
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Johnson & Forte are maybe's. I think they have higher floors but being older now I don't think their ceilings are as high as they used to be. I would easily take him over MJD after the injuries last year and the age.
One of the things that is hard to separate is I play mostly dynasty and not a lot of redraft anymore. I tend to shy away from veterans expecting them to fall off a cliff sooner rather than later. There's a whole thread devoted to debating it, but I also feel that drawing a late pick in redraft means you swing for the fences in the hopes of making up for the elite RB advantage the early pickers get.
LongTimeSufferingVikingFan
Footballguy
I like Wilson but ABrown is an absolute MUST handcuff if I draft Wilson.
Apparently if a guy is really fast and elusive, that's fine, but you wouldn't want him truly carrying the load. Leave that to some plodding RB who can net you a solid 3YPC.
Just because a player is a home run threat and can break off 40 yard runs, doesn't mean he can't run between the tackles too. People are guilty of this type of 'analysis' with both Wilson and CJ Spiller
Just because a player is a home run threat and can break off 40 yard runs, doesn't mean he can't run between the tackles too. People are guilty of this type of 'analysis' with both Wilson and CJ Spiller
tuffydawolf
Footballguy
In a 12 team re-draft PPR league I got Wilson with the 2 pick of the fourth round> Mr Wilson will be my flex play with CJ Spiller and Reggie Bush as my starters.
I could not be happier to get him at that spot.
I could not be happier to get him at that spot.
First let me say it's nice to see you giving in and adjusting your argument accordingly.Koya said:
Next ... If Wilson gets 70% or 287 of the 410 carries that the Giants have averaged over the past couple of years ... that number of carries would be 7th in the NFL in 2012 and 4th in 2011. With Wilsons talent and big play ability that should easily put him in the top 5 rbs in FF.
Finally I am not so sure that Brown will continue to get the 3rd down and GL carries because he has been terrible so far this preason.
Now ... I dont think that Wilson will get quite that many carries ... I think he will end up with around 270 if he stays healthy. But I also think that he would be better in the GL role than Brown and will eventually start getting a good % of GL opportunities
Chris Johnson is too small and he is going to lose goaline and 3rd down carries to Shonn Greene
Matt Fortes going to lose goaline and 3rd down carries to Michael Bush
MJD's offense sux and he is coming off lesfranc
Koya
Footballguy
I am not giving in at all. Football and FF are moving targets. Anyone who has their mind just set on something is just foolish and hardheaded.
My opinion today is not at all different than it has been. You or others can try to interpret what is not there, but that's not on me.
Now, that opinion is being shaped by the fact that Brown has not excelled... with that reality being tempered by the fact that its preseason. Wilson has also hardly proven himself as a great blocking back and knowing Coughlin, the Giants will look to another option if neither Brown nor Wilson can give them what they need there.
I already eloquated my thoughts on the goal line.
In the end, it appears that you have me lumped in some bucket with guys who doubt Wilson. I don't, and haven't. But he is not proven, either - not in some critical aspects of the game. So, I am pretty much where I started with Wilson, maybe this week trends are pointing toward the upside that I know is there, but hardly enough to move him much on a fantasy draft board more than a few slots up, if that (total, not a few RB slots).
So, not sure why you are so focused on me nor my opinion, consider me flattered though. Especially since it's hardly changed since a month or two ago.
ponchsox
Footballguy
That's complete and utter bs. The Bears are using Forte more in the passing game this year and that means 3rd downs. Bush may vulture TDs, but Forte is in a very positive situation this year.
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T with T
Footballguy
Wilson had reportedly run sub 4.3 at the VT fast track and is an olympic sprinter. I wouldn't say CJ has another gear as it looks to me wilson is just as fast
Today
In the end, it appears that you have me lumped in some bucket with guys who doubt Wilson. I don't, and haven't.
Two Weeks Ago
I have laid out my reasons for considerable doubt that he(Wilson) will be "the man"
Sorry ... I just can't deal with Bull Sh.tters and you my friend are a Bull Sh..tter
Go back through the thread and not only did you make it clear that you had big doubts about Wilson but you also were sure that Brown would be the man. Either stick by your argument or man up and admit that you were wrong
In the end, it appears that you have me lumped in some bucket with guys who doubt Wilson. I don't, and haven't.
Two Weeks Ago
I have laid out my reasons for considerable doubt that he(Wilson) will be "the man"
Sorry ... I just can't deal with Bull Sh.tters and you my friend are a Bull Sh..tter
Go back through the thread and not only did you make it clear that you had big doubts about Wilson but you also were sure that Brown would be the man. Either stick by your argument or man up and admit that you were wrong
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And there's no way David Wilson loses goal line or 3rd down carries to anybody else.
And certainly David Wilson has a more established NFL track record than Chris Johnon.
And clearly it's not possible for Jones-Drew to perform on a bad team, as we all know the 2011 Jaguars were a powerhouse.
And of course Forte doesn't catch well enough to be in on 3rd down passing situations.
Or not.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
not sure about olympic sprinter... BUF WR marquis goodwin was olympic long jumper?wilson was an outstanding triple jumper, certainly one of best in conference, may have finished in top 10 nationally, don't know if he was olympic caliber...
his VTech bio does say he ran sub 4.3 several times, but not sure if those were hand timed, which would be more suspect...
anybody who has seen him, though, can see he has incredible speed... it is the combination of speed and quickness that makes him so dangerous (as well as his power, balance, etc.)...
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