***David Wilson Bandwagon*** (2 Viewers)

[Chreesto]

I thought his comment was a good one. Basically "Wilson might not benefit to the extent commonly thought, as I could see NYG passing more on the goal line"

That doesn't mean that they'll play the whole game like the packers, only that they may throw more at the goal line, which is something that the packers do. To me it was a good point to bring up and far more valuable than your petty little rant. If you disagree with his assertion why not use some of that logic you pretend to espouse and give reasons why the loss of brown won't result in more red-zone/goal line passing?

 

[Khy]

I thought his comment was a good one. Basically "Wilson might not benefit to the extent commonly thought, as I could see NYG passing more on the goal line"

That doesn't mean that they'll play the whole game like the packers, only that they may throw more at the goal line, which is something that the packers do. To me it was a good point to bring up and far more valuable than your petty little rant. If you disagree with his assertion why not use some of that logic you pretend to espouse and give reasons why the loss of brown won't result in more red-zone/goal line passing?

Right... so to make a baseless assumptions with no evidence is more valuable. It wasn't a petty little rant... in fact I did give logical reasoning as to this not being the case. The simple fact is that isn't how the Giants game plan. Do you really think the loss of their #2 RB is somehow going to shift their entire redzone game plan that they've worked on for the past 9 seasons with Coughlin at the helm? I said it was asinine because it is asinine. The Giants had about a 3:2 rushingassing ratio in the red zone than passing attempts last season. The Packers had a 2:1 passing:rushing ratio in red zone attempts last season. That would be an ENORMOUS shift in game plan that there is literally zero evidence to support. The point isn't a good one because there is no evidence for it... it's that simple. It's no different then making the same assumption that the Packers are now going to run the ball in the red zone 3:2 as opposed to the 1:2 ratio they had last season. Those types of decisions are based more on coaching styles than personnel on the field.

 

[eoMMan]

What's his injury history?

 

[sdp1226]

Where does Wilson fit into PPR rankings compared to this group of RBs?

Reggie Bush, Sproles, Murray, McFadden

 

[eoMMan]

Where does Wilson fit into PPR rankings compared to this group of RBs?

Reggie Bush, Sproles, Murray, McFadden

I would go RB, DW, sproled, murray, mcfadden.

 

[Pots]

Where does Wilson fit into PPR rankings compared to this group of RBs?

Reggie Bush, Sproles, Murray, McFadden

Wilson, Bush, Murray, Sproles, McFadden IMO

 

[Chreesto]

I thought his comment was a good one. Basically "Wilson might not benefit to the extent commonly thought, as I could see NYG passing more on the goal line"

That doesn't mean that they'll play the whole game like the packers, only that they may throw more at the goal line, which is something that the packers do. To me it was a good point to bring up and far more valuable than your petty little rant. If you disagree with his assertion why not use some of that logic you pretend to espouse and give reasons why the loss of brown won't result in more red-zone/goal line passing?

Right... so to make a baseless assumptions with no evidence is more valuable. It wasn't a petty little rant... in fact I did give logical reasoning as to this not being the case. The simple fact is that isn't how the Giants game plan. Do you really think the loss of their #2 RB is somehow going to shift their entire redzone game plan that they've worked on for the past 9 seasons with Coughlin at the helm? I said it was asinine because it is asinine. The Giants had about a 3:2 rushingassing ratio in the red zone than passing attempts last season. The Packers had a 2:1 passing:rushing ratio in red zone attempts last season. That would be an ENORMOUS shift in game plan that there is literally zero evidence to support. The point isn't a good one because there is no evidence for it... it's that simple. It's no different then making the same assumption that the Packers are now going to run the ball in the red zone 3:2 as opposed to the 1:2 ratio they had last season. Those types of decisions are based more on coaching styles than personnel on the field.

I think if you'll reference the original poster you'll see that he qualifies his remarks ("a little") in reference to GB and New Orleans. The giants don't have to become those teams in the red zone for all of brown's touches to not go to Wilson. It's entirely possible that a receiver might benefit a bit as well. The point, as I understood it, was not to say that the giants would transform into the aforementioned teams, rather that they might choose to occasionally pass near the goal line; a tweak of scheme brought about by a loss of personnel. To disagree with the original poster is fine. To call him asinine was uncalled for says a lot about your ability to exchange in productive discourse and your level of civility.

 

[Koya]

STOP THE HYPE! Just got a sporting news update "A Brown's broken leg not as bad as feared"

This pushes Wilson back to a marginal #4 high end #5 at best. Draft accordingly!

 

[Khy]

I thought his comment was a good one. Basically "Wilson might not benefit to the extent commonly thought, as I could see NYG passing more on the goal line"

That doesn't mean that they'll play the whole game like the packers, only that they may throw more at the goal line, which is something that the packers do. To me it was a good point to bring up and far more valuable than your petty little rant. If you disagree with his assertion why not use some of that logic you pretend to espouse and give reasons why the loss of brown won't result in more red-zone/goal line passing?

Right... so to make a baseless assumptions with no evidence is more valuable. It wasn't a petty little rant... in fact I did give logical reasoning as to this not being the case. The simple fact is that isn't how the Giants game plan. Do you really think the loss of their #2 RB is somehow going to shift their entire redzone game plan that they've worked on for the past 9 seasons with Coughlin at the helm? I said it was asinine because it is asinine. The Giants had about a 3:2 rushingassing ratio in the red zone than passing attempts last season. The Packers had a 2:1 passing:rushing ratio in red zone attempts last season. That would be an ENORMOUS shift in game plan that there is literally zero evidence to support. The point isn't a good one because there is no evidence for it... it's that simple. It's no different then making the same assumption that the Packers are now going to run the ball in the red zone 3:2 as opposed to the 1:2 ratio they had last season. Those types of decisions are based more on coaching styles than personnel on the field.

I think if you'll reference the original poster you'll see that he qualifies his remarks ("a little") in reference to GB and New Orleans. The giants don't have to become those teams in the red zone for all of brown's touches to not go to Wilson. It's entirely possible that a receiver might benefit a bit as well. The point, as I understood it, was not to say that the giants would transform into the aforementioned teams, rather that they might choose to occasionally pass near the goal line; a tweak of scheme brought about by a loss of personnel. To disagree with the original poster is fine. To call him asinine was uncalled for says a lot about your ability to exchange in productive discourse and your level of civility.

I never called him asinine, I said the idea that the Giants would move closer to a GB/NO style of red zone offense was asinine. Which I don't think is unfair... the fact that he said a little is well irrelevant to me. What's a little? 5 more red zone targets go from rushing to passing? That's not even enough to discuss as that's barely enough to even say it differs from the presumed standard deviation. They're either 'shifting towards GB and NO type of redzone" or not doing it. There's no 'little bit' to be accounted for really. We're talking about 88 passing red zone targets to 116 rushing red zone targets from last season. Green Bay's stats were 88 passing, 44 rushing and New Orleans was 105 passing to 78 rushing. Green Bay and New Orleans were the complete opposite in terms of red zone production when compared with the Giants.

 

[ponchsox]

This thread has gone full derp.

 

[Winning IS Everything]

Ok, I kind of understand where Khy was coming from. I will unpack a bit. Will they totally abandon their gameplan? No. With Brown out, do they now pound David Wilson at the goalline nearly every time? Not sure. Giants have always had a somewhat reliable puncher from the goal line (Jacobs, Brown, etc.), now they do not have that. I could be wrong, I might be 100% wrong. I just think without a banger, they might have to pass a little more, even if it is on screens to Wilson I do think adding a couple TD's to Wilson's projections are in order though. Teams do sometimes alter gameplans to personnel. Sorry the thread got thrown off track.

 

[stbugs]

I guess what I am saying is that I never really considered Brown a threat. You did. Truth is we won't ever know.

Not even for goalline, when Brown was getting plenty of GL looks with the first team in the preseason? TDs can be kinda big in this hobby.

Maybe, maybe not. Preseason is tricky that way. Tough to say. I mean I guess I had Brown getting 5-8 touchdowns. I don't think with his injury that Wilson automatically gets a bump of 5-8 touchdowns. Maybe he gets 2 or 3 more over the course of the season. If we were thinking this was a 65-35 split for fantasy points before, maybe it becomes 70-30 now in favor of Wilson. Small bump, but I don't think it suddenly makes Wilson a safe first rounder. Somebody is going to take up some of the slack that Brown would have gotten, maybe a host of players.

Whomever becomes the primary backup(s) won't be as good as Andre Brown. I don't the Giants will trust a 3rd string RB in key situations. Maybe to spell Wilson here and there. I think the split will be more like 80/20.

I don't know where you get this from. The giants have a history of plugging in RBs who aren't particularly special and turning them into producers. Andre Brown plugged into the offense.....and suddenly folks thought he was impressive. Derrick Ward averaged 5.6 yds per carry and ran for over 1000 yards in 2008. Then suddenly Ahmad Bradshaw - a 7th round pick - became a big part of the offense and was effective. (though note that he only averaged 4.8 yds per carry - less than Derrick Ward)

In other words, either the Giants will do a good job finding an effective backup RB, or their system is such that they can just plug a random guy in there and see him perform well.

Since Manning has been on the Giants, their passing game has gotten much better and instead of being around 300 points per year the offense has been closer to 400 points per year. Between Steve Smith, Burress, Manningham, Nicks and Cruz, they've had a pretty decent receiving core to take the pressure off the running game. Throw in a decent line and their running game has usually been pretty solid.

That said, just assuming they will continue to plug in guys might not be correct. They got rid of Bradshaw and now Brown is out for a while, that is 2 of their 3 top RBs last year. Sometimes you can go to the well, but with Torain, they are scraping the bottom of the barrel. Think about the Shanny years between TD/Portis and Morris. Some years you find a Mike Anderson, who actually has some talents and plugs in well and some years you find guys like Torain and Gary and they don't exactly give you the same production. Assuming Torain and another rookie will replace Brown is premature. Brown isn't exactly the most talented guy, but he had at least proven last year that he could be plugged in and do well.

Why are others assuming that they can NOT replace Brown with Torain or someone else? Historical track record is on my side - it's almost like others have seen the sun rise at dawn every day for years, and are now suddenly waking up one morning before dawn and saying "####, I'm really worried the sun won't come up today."

Yeah, that is exactly what it is like, because no trend in the NFL has ever stopped before. Geez, this board really does suck now. Don't get your panties in a bunch. I said "MIGHT" not be correct, i.e. I agree with you that they have done it in the past, but they are now at the 4th guy after getting rid of Bradshaw. Is it really crazy to think that Torain isn't really that good and might not be good enough to plug right in as you expect? I liked Brown based on what I saw last year and the last time I saw Torain in 2011, I didn't like him, but oh well you already know everything.

 

[eoMMan]

This thread has gone full derp.

Derp?

 

[drake_ovo]

yeah, some of u people take fantasy football too seriously. lmao

 

[Khy]

Ok, I kind of understand where Khy was coming from. I will unpack a bit. Will they totally abandon their gameplan? No. With Brown out, do they now pound David Wilson at the goalline nearly every time? Not sure. Giants have always had a somewhat reliable puncher from the goal line (Jacobs, Brown, etc.), now they do not have that. I could be wrong, I might be 100% wrong. I just think without a banger, they might have to pass a little more, even if it is on screens to Wilson I do think adding a couple TD's to Wilson's projections are in order though. Teams do sometimes alter gameplans to personnel. Sorry the thread got thrown off track.

Yeah, I really wasn't trying to be rude. I was just pointing out that you made a seemingly baseless statement with no evidence. So thank you for providing at least your thought processes behind it. Technically you are correct; since Coughlin took over 7 of his 9 seasons provided us with good value in the form of a 'goal line' style back. Here's the breakdown:

2004: Tiki Barber 13 TDs; Ron Dayne 1 TD; Mike Cloud 3 TDs - Pretty much no goal line back in his first season. Tiki stole the show.

2005: Tiki Barber 9 TDs; Brandon Jacobs 7 TDs - Clearly Jacobs stole a lot of goal line work this season, similar to Brown last year.

2006: Tiki Barber 6 TDs; Brandon Jacobs 9 TDs - Even worse than 2005, Brandon Jacobs stole most if not all of the goal line looks. Tiki didn't have a single TD from within the 10 yardline.

2007: Brandon Jacobs 4 TDs; Derrick Ward 3 TDs; Reuben Droughns 6 TDs - A really awkward season, nobody was the true goal line back here, more like a random plug and play.

2008: Brandon Jacobs 15 TDs; Derrick Ward 2 TDs; Ahmad Bradshaw 1 TD - No goal line back in this season. Brandon Jacobs stole the show.

2009: Brandon Jacobs 5 TDs; Ahmad Bradshaw 7 TDs - They really split goal line carries this season... this is possibly like how Wilson/Brown would have turned out.

2010: Ahmad Bradshaw 8 TDs; Brandon Jacobs 9 TDs - Once again, they split goal line carries this season... another good insight into the possibility of Wilson/Brown.

2011: Ahmad Bradshaw 9 TDs; Brandon Jacobs 7 TDs - Once again, they split goal line carries this season... neither played a whole season. Far and away with worst rushing game the Giants have had in well over a decade.

2012: Ahmad Bradshaw 6 TDs; Andre Brown 8 TDs; David Wilson 4 TDs - Hard to tell what this would have been like if both Bradshaw and Brown weren't hurt all season long.

So we have two different scenarios where the Giants and Coughlin didn't actually have a good second option and the #1 guy got all the carries. In those two seasons we had Tiki Barber amass 13 TDs and Brandon Jacobs amass 15 TDs. This season we are now in a VERY similar situation, there is no viable #2 until Brown comes back. If Wilson can prove early he can be effective in short yardage situations the job will be his until Brown gets back. And more than likely he'll retain most of that job even when Brown does get back. We've seen the short yardage power he has all preseason he definitely will be effective in these situations.

I'd say if healthy Wilson's floor is probably around 10 TDs with a ceiling higher in the double digits. You have to assume just looking at last season, with a full complement of carries he'll throw up 5 or so TDs from outside the red zone on just random explosive plays. And probably another 5 from the goal line.

 

[SameSongNDance]

So where do you guys see Wilson going in your leagues/mocks right now?

 

[drake_ovo]

mockdrafts, i saw wilson at 4,7,9,13,12,5,15

all top 15

i assume the top10 are homers.

 

[Redwes25]

Ok, I kind of understand where Khy was coming from. I will unpack a bit. Will they totally abandon their gameplan? No. With Brown out, do they now pound David Wilson at the goalline nearly every time? Not sure. Giants have always had a somewhat reliable puncher from the goal line (Jacobs, Brown, etc.), now they do not have that. I could be wrong, I might be 100% wrong. I just think without a banger, they might have to pass a little more, even if it is on screens to Wilson I do think adding a couple TD's to Wilson's projections are in order though. Teams do sometimes alter gameplans to personnel. Sorry the thread got thrown off track.

Yeah, I really wasn't trying to be rude. I was just pointing out that you made a seemingly baseless statement with no evidence. So thank you for providing at least your thought processes behind it. Technically you are correct; since Coughlin took over 7 of his 9 seasons provided us with good value in the form of a 'goal line' style back. Here's the breakdown:

2004: Tiki Barber 13 TDs; Ron Dayne 1 TD; Mike Cloud 3 TDs - Pretty much no goal line back in his first season. Tiki stole the show.

2005: Tiki Barber 9 TDs; Brandon Jacobs 7 TDs - Clearly Jacobs stole a lot of goal line work this season, similar to Brown last year.

2006: Tiki Barber 6 TDs; Brandon Jacobs 9 TDs - Even worse than 2005, Brandon Jacobs stole most if not all of the goal line looks. Tiki didn't have a single TD from within the 10 yardline.

2007: Brandon Jacobs 4 TDs; Derrick Ward 3 TDs; Reuben Droughns 6 TDs - A really awkward season, nobody was the true goal line back here, more like a random plug and play.

2008: Brandon Jacobs 15 TDs; Derrick Ward 2 TDs; Ahmad Bradshaw 1 TD - No goal line back in this season. Brandon Jacobs stole the show.

2009: Brandon Jacobs 5 TDs; Ahmad Bradshaw 7 TDs - They really split goal line carries this season... this is possibly like how Wilson/Brown would have turned out.

2010: Ahmad Bradshaw 8 TDs; Brandon Jacobs 9 TDs - Once again, they split goal line carries this season... another good insight into the possibility of Wilson/Brown.

2011: Ahmad Bradshaw 9 TDs; Brandon Jacobs 7 TDs - Once again, they split goal line carries this season... neither played a whole season. Far and away with worst rushing game the Giants have had in well over a decade.

2012: Ahmad Bradshaw 6 TDs; Andre Brown 8 TDs; David Wilson 4 TDs - Hard to tell what this would have been like if both Bradshaw and Brown weren't hurt all season long.

So we have two different scenarios where the Giants and Coughlin didn't actually have a good second option and the #1 guy got all the carries. In those two seasons we had Tiki Barber amass 13 TDs and Brandon Jacobs amass 15 TDs. This season we are now in a VERY similar situation, there is no viable #2 until Brown comes back. If Wilson can prove early he can be effective in short yardage situations the job will be his until Brown gets back. And more than likely he'll retain most of that job even when Brown does get back. We've seen the short yardage power he has all preseason he definitely will be effective in these situations.

I'd say if healthy Wilson's floor is probably around 10 TDs with a ceiling higher in the double digits. You have to assume just looking at last season, with a full complement of carries he'll throw up 5 or so TDs from outside the red zone on just random explosive plays. And probably another 5 from the goal line.

Your statement about 2008 is wrong. Jacobs was in a split with Ward that year and Jacobs was the goaline back. They both ran for over a thousand yards so wouldn't say Jacobs stole the show.

Also, your statement about the giants having the best rushing attack since Tiki left is also incorrect. The 2008 giants had the best rushing offense in the league and put up more rushing yards then any year with Barber on the team. 2007 was also a great year for Giants as a team on the ground.

 

[T with T]

I thought his comment was a good one. Basically "Wilson might not benefit to the extent commonly thought, as I could see NYG passing more on the goal line"

That doesn't mean that they'll play the whole game like the packers, only that they may throw more at the goal line, which is something that the packers do. To me it was a good point to bring up and far more valuable than your petty little rant. If you disagree with his assertion why not use some of that logic you pretend to espouse and give reasons why the loss of brown won't result in more red-zone/goal line passing?

Right... so to make a baseless assumptions with no evidence is more valuable. It wasn't a petty little rant... in fact I did give logical reasoning as to this not being the case. The simple fact is that isn't how the Giants game plan. Do you really think the loss of their #2 RB is somehow going to shift their entire redzone game plan that they've worked on for the past 9 seasons with Coughlin at the helm? I said it was asinine because it is asinine. The Giants had about a 3:2 rushingassing ratio in the red zone than passing attempts last season. The Packers had a 2:1 passing:rushing ratio in red zone attempts last season. That would be an ENORMOUS shift in game plan that there is literally zero evidence to support. The point isn't a good one because there is no evidence for it... it's that simple. It's no different then making the same assumption that the Packers are now going to run the ball in the red zone 3:2 as opposed to the 1:2 ratio they had last season. Those types of decisions are based more on coaching styles than personnel on the field.

I think if you'll reference the original poster you'll see that he qualifies his remarks ("a little") in reference to GB and New Orleans. The giants don't have to become those teams in the red zone for all of brown's touches to not go to Wilson. It's entirely possible that a receiver might benefit a bit as well. The point, as I understood it, was not to say that the giants would transform into the aforementioned teams, rather that they might choose to occasionally pass near the goal line; a tweak of scheme brought about by a loss of personnel. To disagree with the original poster is fine. To call him asinine was uncalled for says a lot about your ability to exchange in productive discourse and your level of civility.

oh never that guy you are confused and twisted... #4 or #5 rb??? you mean in the whole league or on a fantasy team???? you sound silly if you mean on a fantasy team when he as of right now is going in the early 2nd round. I grabbed him sunday in early 3rd... Even if the break isn't that bad hoping and wishing for brown to come back in 6 weeks only to break something else again, and by that time I see Wilson established enough where Brown's presence will barely even make a diff or change anything. That's where Im at.

 

[Banger]

mockdrafts, i saw wilson at 4,7,9,13,12,5,15

all top 15

i assume the top10 are homers.

Wow. Those are some crazy numbers. Half in top 10?

 

[Khy]

Ok, I kind of understand where Khy was coming from. I will unpack a bit. Will they totally abandon their gameplan? No. With Brown out, do they now pound David Wilson at the goalline nearly every time? Not sure. Giants have always had a somewhat reliable puncher from the goal line (Jacobs, Brown, etc.), now they do not have that. I could be wrong, I might be 100% wrong. I just think without a banger, they might have to pass a little more, even if it is on screens to Wilson I do think adding a couple TD's to Wilson's projections are in order though. Teams do sometimes alter gameplans to personnel. Sorry the thread got thrown off track.

Yeah, I really wasn't trying to be rude. I was just pointing out that you made a seemingly baseless statement with no evidence. So thank you for providing at least your thought processes behind it. Technically you are correct; since Coughlin took over 7 of his 9 seasons provided us with good value in the form of a 'goal line' style back. Here's the breakdown:

2004: Tiki Barber 13 TDs; Ron Dayne 1 TD; Mike Cloud 3 TDs - Pretty much no goal line back in his first season. Tiki stole the show.

2005: Tiki Barber 9 TDs; Brandon Jacobs 7 TDs - Clearly Jacobs stole a lot of goal line work this season, similar to Brown last year.

2006: Tiki Barber 6 TDs; Brandon Jacobs 9 TDs - Even worse than 2005, Brandon Jacobs stole most if not all of the goal line looks. Tiki didn't have a single TD from within the 10 yardline.

2007: Brandon Jacobs 4 TDs; Derrick Ward 3 TDs; Reuben Droughns 6 TDs - A really awkward season, nobody was the true goal line back here, more like a random plug and play.

2008: Brandon Jacobs 15 TDs; Derrick Ward 2 TDs; Ahmad Bradshaw 1 TD - No goal line back in this season. Brandon Jacobs stole the show.

2009: Brandon Jacobs 5 TDs; Ahmad Bradshaw 7 TDs - They really split goal line carries this season... this is possibly like how Wilson/Brown would have turned out.

2010: Ahmad Bradshaw 8 TDs; Brandon Jacobs 9 TDs - Once again, they split goal line carries this season... another good insight into the possibility of Wilson/Brown.

2011: Ahmad Bradshaw 9 TDs; Brandon Jacobs 7 TDs - Once again, they split goal line carries this season... neither played a whole season. Far and away with worst rushing game the Giants have had in well over a decade.

2012: Ahmad Bradshaw 6 TDs; Andre Brown 8 TDs; David Wilson 4 TDs - Hard to tell what this would have been like if both Bradshaw and Brown weren't hurt all season long.

So we have two different scenarios where the Giants and Coughlin didn't actually have a good second option and the #1 guy got all the carries. In those two seasons we had Tiki Barber amass 13 TDs and Brandon Jacobs amass 15 TDs. This season we are now in a VERY similar situation, there is no viable #2 until Brown comes back. If Wilson can prove early he can be effective in short yardage situations the job will be his until Brown gets back. And more than likely he'll retain most of that job even when Brown does get back. We've seen the short yardage power he has all preseason he definitely will be effective in these situations.

I'd say if healthy Wilson's floor is probably around 10 TDs with a ceiling higher in the double digits. You have to assume just looking at last season, with a full complement of carries he'll throw up 5 or so TDs from outside the red zone on just random explosive plays. And probably another 5 from the goal line.

Your statement about 2008 is wrong. Jacobs was in a split with Ward that year and Jacobs was the goaline back. They both ran for over a thousand yards so wouldn't say Jacobs stole the show.

Also, your statement about the giants having the best rushing attack since Tiki left is also incorrect. The 2008 giants had the best rushing offense in the league and put up more rushing yards then any year with Barber on the team. 2007 was also a great year for Giants as a team on the ground.

Not really 'wrong' about 2008, yes Jacobs was in a split with Ward. Jacobs however was the 'starting RB' saw more carries as a result and posted up 15 TDs in the season. So it's not exactly wrong as I was simply evaluating goal line situations in relations to the starting RB. And that's my bad on the Tiki comment, bad wording on my part. I more so meant most talent at running back than best rushing attack.

 

[Redwes25]

Ok, I kind of understand where Khy was coming from. I will unpack a bit. Will they totally abandon their gameplan? No. With Brown out, do they now pound David Wilson at the goalline nearly every time? Not sure. Giants have always had a somewhat reliable puncher from the goal line (Jacobs, Brown, etc.), now they do not have that. I could be wrong, I might be 100% wrong. I just think without a banger, they might have to pass a little more, even if it is on screens to Wilson I do think adding a couple TD's to Wilson's projections are in order though. Teams do sometimes alter gameplans to personnel. Sorry the thread got thrown off track.

Yeah, I really wasn't trying to be rude. I was just pointing out that you made a seemingly baseless statement with no evidence. So thank you for providing at least your thought processes behind it. Technically you are correct; since Coughlin took over 7 of his 9 seasons provided us with good value in the form of a 'goal line' style back. Here's the breakdown:

2004: Tiki Barber 13 TDs; Ron Dayne 1 TD; Mike Cloud 3 TDs - Pretty much no goal line back in his first season. Tiki stole the show.

2005: Tiki Barber 9 TDs; Brandon Jacobs 7 TDs - Clearly Jacobs stole a lot of goal line work this season, similar to Brown last year.

2006: Tiki Barber 6 TDs; Brandon Jacobs 9 TDs - Even worse than 2005, Brandon Jacobs stole most if not all of the goal line looks. Tiki didn't have a single TD from within the 10 yardline.

2007: Brandon Jacobs 4 TDs; Derrick Ward 3 TDs; Reuben Droughns 6 TDs - A really awkward season, nobody was the true goal line back here, more like a random plug and play.

2008: Brandon Jacobs 15 TDs; Derrick Ward 2 TDs; Ahmad Bradshaw 1 TD - No goal line back in this season. Brandon Jacobs stole the show.

2009: Brandon Jacobs 5 TDs; Ahmad Bradshaw 7 TDs - They really split goal line carries this season... this is possibly like how Wilson/Brown would have turned out.

2010: Ahmad Bradshaw 8 TDs; Brandon Jacobs 9 TDs - Once again, they split goal line carries this season... another good insight into the possibility of Wilson/Brown.

2011: Ahmad Bradshaw 9 TDs; Brandon Jacobs 7 TDs - Once again, they split goal line carries this season... neither played a whole season. Far and away with worst rushing game the Giants have had in well over a decade.

2012: Ahmad Bradshaw 6 TDs; Andre Brown 8 TDs; David Wilson 4 TDs - Hard to tell what this would have been like if both Bradshaw and Brown weren't hurt all season long.

So we have two different scenarios where the Giants and Coughlin didn't actually have a good second option and the #1 guy got all the carries. In those two seasons we had Tiki Barber amass 13 TDs and Brandon Jacobs amass 15 TDs. This season we are now in a VERY similar situation, there is no viable #2 until Brown comes back. If Wilson can prove early he can be effective in short yardage situations the job will be his until Brown gets back. And more than likely he'll retain most of that job even when Brown does get back. We've seen the short yardage power he has all preseason he definitely will be effective in these situations.

I'd say if healthy Wilson's floor is probably around 10 TDs with a ceiling higher in the double digits. You have to assume just looking at last season, with a full complement of carries he'll throw up 5 or so TDs from outside the red zone on just random explosive plays. And probably another 5 from the goal line.

Your statement about 2008 is wrong. Jacobs was in a split with Ward that year and Jacobs was the goaline back. They both ran for over a thousand yards so wouldn't say Jacobs stole the show.

Also, your statement about the giants having the best rushing attack since Tiki left is also incorrect. The 2008 giants had the best rushing offense in the league and put up more rushing yards then any year with Barber on the team. 2007 was also a great year for Giants as a team on the ground.

Not really 'wrong' about 2008, yes Jacobs was in a split with Ward. Jacobs however was the 'starting RB' saw more carries as a result and posted up 15 TDs in the season. So it's not exactly wrong as I was simply evaluating goal line situations in relations to the starting RB. And that's my bad on the Tiki comment, bad wording on my part. I more so meant most talent at running back than best rushing attack.

huh? So the fact that Jacobs got only 37 more carries then Ward it was a RBBC with Jacobs getting goaline duty in split. And, if you add in receptions Ward and Jacobs got nearly an identical number of touches. Clearly not a situation where "So we have two different scenarios where the Giants and Coughlin didn't actually have a good second option and the #1 guy got all the carries."

A litle refreasher on the 2008 - http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2008.htm

 

[Man of Zen]

Ok, I kind of understand where Khy was coming from. I will unpack a bit. Will they totally abandon their gameplan? No. With Brown out, do they now pound David Wilson at the goalline nearly every time? Not sure. Giants have always had a somewhat reliable puncher from the goal line (Jacobs, Brown, etc.), now they do not have that. I could be wrong, I might be 100% wrong. I just think without a banger, they might have to pass a little more, even if it is on screens to Wilson I do think adding a couple TD's to Wilson's projections are in order though. Teams do sometimes alter gameplans to personnel. Sorry the thread got thrown off track.

Yeah, I really wasn't trying to be rude. I was just pointing out that you made a seemingly baseless statement with no evidence. So thank you for providing at least your thought processes behind it. Technically you are correct; since Coughlin took over 7 of his 9 seasons provided us with good value in the form of a 'goal line' style back. Here's the breakdown:

2004: Tiki Barber 13 TDs; Ron Dayne 1 TD; Mike Cloud 3 TDs - Pretty much no goal line back in his first season. Tiki stole the show.

2005: Tiki Barber 9 TDs; Brandon Jacobs 7 TDs - Clearly Jacobs stole a lot of goal line work this season, similar to Brown last year.

2006: Tiki Barber 6 TDs; Brandon Jacobs 9 TDs - Even worse than 2005, Brandon Jacobs stole most if not all of the goal line looks. Tiki didn't have a single TD from within the 10 yardline.

2007: Brandon Jacobs 4 TDs; Derrick Ward 3 TDs; Reuben Droughns 6 TDs - A really awkward season, nobody was the true goal line back here, more like a random plug and play.

2008: Brandon Jacobs 15 TDs; Derrick Ward 2 TDs; Ahmad Bradshaw 1 TD - No goal line back in this season. Brandon Jacobs stole the show.

2009: Brandon Jacobs 5 TDs; Ahmad Bradshaw 7 TDs - They really split goal line carries this season... this is possibly like how Wilson/Brown would have turned out.

2010: Ahmad Bradshaw 8 TDs; Brandon Jacobs 9 TDs - Once again, they split goal line carries this season... another good insight into the possibility of Wilson/Brown.

2011: Ahmad Bradshaw 9 TDs; Brandon Jacobs 7 TDs - Once again, they split goal line carries this season... neither played a whole season. Far and away with worst rushing game the Giants have had in well over a decade.

2012: Ahmad Bradshaw 6 TDs; Andre Brown 8 TDs; David Wilson 4 TDs - Hard to tell what this would have been like if both Bradshaw and Brown weren't hurt all season long.

So we have two different scenarios where the Giants and Coughlin didn't actually have a good second option and the #1 guy got all the carries. In those two seasons we had Tiki Barber amass 13 TDs and Brandon Jacobs amass 15 TDs. This season we are now in a VERY similar situation, there is no viable #2 until Brown comes back. If Wilson can prove early he can be effective in short yardage situations the job will be his until Brown gets back. And more than likely he'll retain most of that job even when Brown does get back. We've seen the short yardage power he has all preseason he definitely will be effective in these situations.

I'd say if healthy Wilson's floor is probably around 10 TDs with a ceiling higher in the double digits. You have to assume just looking at last season, with a full complement of carries he'll throw up 5 or so TDs from outside the red zone on just random explosive plays. And probably another 5 from the goal line.

Your statement about 2008 is wrong. Jacobs was in a split with Ward that year and Jacobs was the goaline back. They both ran for over a thousand yards so wouldn't say Jacobs stole the show.

Also, your statement about the giants having the best rushing attack since Tiki left is also incorrect. The 2008 giants had the best rushing offense in the league and put up more rushing yards then any year with Barber on the team. 2007 was also a great year for Giants as a team on the ground.

I think the more salient point, if you want to make the case that there's "no precedent" for any kind of run/pass switcharoo in NY under Coughlin, is 2007.

That was an era when you can quite easily look at the nearby years and see that there was a division of labor, with Jacobs being a clear GL guy.

When Jacobs got hurt early in week one, Ward (not being in Coughlin's GL plans) didn't suddenly have a career spike in TD production from close in. Instead, Plaxico Burress took that stretch and put together -- by leaps and bounds -- the most productive TD stretch of his career. He essentially carried the whole offense with 8 TD's in six weeks.

They did indeed shift when their presumed RBBC went #### up early in the season.

They may not do it again, but to say such a thought is baseless and with nothing in history suggesting it's even possible is, well, asinine would be the ironic word for it.

 

[Redwes25]

Ok, I kind of understand where Khy was coming from. I will unpack a bit. Will they totally abandon their gameplan? No. With Brown out, do they now pound David Wilson at the goalline nearly every time? Not sure. Giants have always had a somewhat reliable puncher from the goal line (Jacobs, Brown, etc.), now they do not have that. I could be wrong, I might be 100% wrong. I just think without a banger, they might have to pass a little more, even if it is on screens to Wilson I do think adding a couple TD's to Wilson's projections are in order though. Teams do sometimes alter gameplans to personnel. Sorry the thread got thrown off track.

Yeah, I really wasn't trying to be rude. I was just pointing out that you made a seemingly baseless statement with no evidence. So thank you for providing at least your thought processes behind it. Technically you are correct; since Coughlin took over 7 of his 9 seasons provided us with good value in the form of a 'goal line' style back. Here's the breakdown:

2004: Tiki Barber 13 TDs; Ron Dayne 1 TD; Mike Cloud 3 TDs - Pretty much no goal line back in his first season. Tiki stole the show.

2005: Tiki Barber 9 TDs; Brandon Jacobs 7 TDs - Clearly Jacobs stole a lot of goal line work this season, similar to Brown last year.

2006: Tiki Barber 6 TDs; Brandon Jacobs 9 TDs - Even worse than 2005, Brandon Jacobs stole most if not all of the goal line looks. Tiki didn't have a single TD from within the 10 yardline.

2007: Brandon Jacobs 4 TDs; Derrick Ward 3 TDs; Reuben Droughns 6 TDs - A really awkward season, nobody was the true goal line back here, more like a random plug and play.

2008: Brandon Jacobs 15 TDs; Derrick Ward 2 TDs; Ahmad Bradshaw 1 TD - No goal line back in this season. Brandon Jacobs stole the show.

2009: Brandon Jacobs 5 TDs; Ahmad Bradshaw 7 TDs - They really split goal line carries this season... this is possibly like how Wilson/Brown would have turned out.

2010: Ahmad Bradshaw 8 TDs; Brandon Jacobs 9 TDs - Once again, they split goal line carries this season... another good insight into the possibility of Wilson/Brown.

2011: Ahmad Bradshaw 9 TDs; Brandon Jacobs 7 TDs - Once again, they split goal line carries this season... neither played a whole season. Far and away with worst rushing game the Giants have had in well over a decade.

2012: Ahmad Bradshaw 6 TDs; Andre Brown 8 TDs; David Wilson 4 TDs - Hard to tell what this would have been like if both Bradshaw and Brown weren't hurt all season long.

So we have two different scenarios where the Giants and Coughlin didn't actually have a good second option and the #1 guy got all the carries. In those two seasons we had Tiki Barber amass 13 TDs and Brandon Jacobs amass 15 TDs. This season we are now in a VERY similar situation, there is no viable #2 until Brown comes back. If Wilson can prove early he can be effective in short yardage situations the job will be his until Brown gets back. And more than likely he'll retain most of that job even when Brown does get back. We've seen the short yardage power he has all preseason he definitely will be effective in these situations.

I'd say if healthy Wilson's floor is probably around 10 TDs with a ceiling higher in the double digits. You have to assume just looking at last season, with a full complement of carries he'll throw up 5 or so TDs from outside the red zone on just random explosive plays. And probably another 5 from the goal line.

Your statement about 2008 is wrong. Jacobs was in a split with Ward that year and Jacobs was the goaline back. They both ran for over a thousand yards so wouldn't say Jacobs stole the show.

Also, your statement about the giants having the best rushing attack since Tiki left is also incorrect. The 2008 giants had the best rushing offense in the league and put up more rushing yards then any year with Barber on the team. 2007 was also a great year for Giants as a team on the ground.

I think the more salient point, if you want to make the case that there's "no precedent" for any kind of run/pass switcharoo in NY under Coughlin, is 2007.

That was an era when you can quite easily look at the nearby years and see that there was a division of labor, with Jacobs being a clear GL guy.

When Jacobs got hurt early in week one, Ward (not being in Coughlin's GL plans) didn't suddenly have a career spike in TD production from close in. Instead, Plaxico Burress took that stretch and put together -- by leaps and bounds -- the most productive TD stretch of his career. He essentially carried the whole offense with 8 TD's in six weeks.

They did indeed shift when their presumed RBBC went #### up early in the season.

They may not do it again, but to say such a thought is baseless and with nothing in history suggesting it's even possible is, well, asinine would be the ironic word for it.

Very good posting.

 

[Khy]

Ok, I kind of understand where Khy was coming from. I will unpack a bit. Will they totally abandon their gameplan? No. With Brown out, do they now pound David Wilson at the goalline nearly every time? Not sure. Giants have always had a somewhat reliable puncher from the goal line (Jacobs, Brown, etc.), now they do not have that. I could be wrong, I might be 100% wrong. I just think without a banger, they might have to pass a little more, even if it is on screens to Wilson I do think adding a couple TD's to Wilson's projections are in order though. Teams do sometimes alter gameplans to personnel. Sorry the thread got thrown off track.

Yeah, I really wasn't trying to be rude. I was just pointing out that you made a seemingly baseless statement with no evidence. So thank you for providing at least your thought processes behind it. Technically you are correct; since Coughlin took over 7 of his 9 seasons provided us with good value in the form of a 'goal line' style back. Here's the breakdown:

2004: Tiki Barber 13 TDs; Ron Dayne 1 TD; Mike Cloud 3 TDs - Pretty much no goal line back in his first season. Tiki stole the show.

2005: Tiki Barber 9 TDs; Brandon Jacobs 7 TDs - Clearly Jacobs stole a lot of goal line work this season, similar to Brown last year.

2006: Tiki Barber 6 TDs; Brandon Jacobs 9 TDs - Even worse than 2005, Brandon Jacobs stole most if not all of the goal line looks. Tiki didn't have a single TD from within the 10 yardline.

2007: Brandon Jacobs 4 TDs; Derrick Ward 3 TDs; Reuben Droughns 6 TDs - A really awkward season, nobody was the true goal line back here, more like a random plug and play.

2008: Brandon Jacobs 15 TDs; Derrick Ward 2 TDs; Ahmad Bradshaw 1 TD - No goal line back in this season. Brandon Jacobs stole the show.

2009: Brandon Jacobs 5 TDs; Ahmad Bradshaw 7 TDs - They really split goal line carries this season... this is possibly like how Wilson/Brown would have turned out.

2010: Ahmad Bradshaw 8 TDs; Brandon Jacobs 9 TDs - Once again, they split goal line carries this season... another good insight into the possibility of Wilson/Brown.

2011: Ahmad Bradshaw 9 TDs; Brandon Jacobs 7 TDs - Once again, they split goal line carries this season... neither played a whole season. Far and away with worst rushing game the Giants have had in well over a decade.

2012: Ahmad Bradshaw 6 TDs; Andre Brown 8 TDs; David Wilson 4 TDs - Hard to tell what this would have been like if both Bradshaw and Brown weren't hurt all season long.

So we have two different scenarios where the Giants and Coughlin didn't actually have a good second option and the #1 guy got all the carries. In those two seasons we had Tiki Barber amass 13 TDs and Brandon Jacobs amass 15 TDs. This season we are now in a VERY similar situation, there is no viable #2 until Brown comes back. If Wilson can prove early he can be effective in short yardage situations the job will be his until Brown gets back. And more than likely he'll retain most of that job even when Brown does get back. We've seen the short yardage power he has all preseason he definitely will be effective in these situations.

I'd say if healthy Wilson's floor is probably around 10 TDs with a ceiling higher in the double digits. You have to assume just looking at last season, with a full complement of carries he'll throw up 5 or so TDs from outside the red zone on just random explosive plays. And probably another 5 from the goal line.

Your statement about 2008 is wrong. Jacobs was in a split with Ward that year and Jacobs was the goaline back. They both ran for over a thousand yards so wouldn't say Jacobs stole the show.

Also, your statement about the giants having the best rushing attack since Tiki left is also incorrect. The 2008 giants had the best rushing offense in the league and put up more rushing yards then any year with Barber on the team. 2007 was also a great year for Giants as a team on the ground.

I think the more salient point, if you want to make the case that there's "no precedent" for any kind of run/pass switcharoo in NY under Coughlin, is 2007.

That was an era when you can quite easily look at the nearby years and see that there was a division of labor, with Jacobs being a clear GL guy.

When Jacobs got hurt early in week one, Ward (not being in Coughlin's GL plans) didn't suddenly have a career spike in TD production from close in. Instead, Plaxico Burress took that stretch and put together -- by leaps and bounds -- the most productive TD stretch of his career. He essentially carried the whole offense with 8 TD's in six weeks.

They did indeed shift when their presumed RBBC went #### up early in the season.

They may not do it again, but to say such a thought is baseless and with nothing in history suggesting it's even possible is, well, asinine would be the ironic word for it.

Very good posting.

Not really... the 8 TD in 6 week stretch he is discussing from Plaxico sounds like a good theory being related to Jacobs production. Until you look at those 8 TDs. Only 3 of them were within the red zone during that stretch and the breakdown of them looked like this: 60, 4, 10, 26, 33, 9, 53, 43.

In 2007 (the year in question) Plaxico put up a total of 4 red zone touchdowns... coincidentally in 2007 where this situation didn't exist with Jacobs being injured; he also put up 4 in the season from inside the redzone. And in 2008 he put up another 3 of his 4 TDs from the red zone.

The simple fact is Plaxico was so large the Giants gave him a lot of attempts from the red zone. They were in no way related to Jacobs going down. In fact it's about average for the Giants "big physical receiver" to have a few red zone TDs year to year.

Hakeem Nicks had 7 of his 11 TDs in 2010 from within the red zone, and then 5 of his 7 in 2011 from within the red zone. Shockingly better red zone TD production than Plaxico had. The "red zone fade/post" is already a part of the Giants game plan, very rarely if ever is it used in goal line situations though. They usually resort to it from the 6-19 yard line. Of Plaxico's and Nicks 30 red zone TDs only 5 were from within the 5 yard line.

 

[ODannyBoy]

Clearly a mid to late second round pick now, this sucks for those of us who were believers and had some value with him in the third.

Personally, I am committed anyway and will take him mid second round now

This is partially why I refuse to do late drafts.

Because people get information and become more informed?

Then try and put together a 5th grade all-girls fantasy league, that should help you achieve what you are after.

Cool story bro?

I like to draft before the opinions I've been able to develop independently become 'collective wisdom'. By this week, most of the good sleepers are no longer sleepers.

FWIW, there are simply different sleepers now. , And collective wisdom often leads to collective hype, or guys who become overvalued.

To each their own, but why any owner would want to draft when there is far more uncertainty regarding things we can't know (injury) is beyond me, but again, we all are entitled to our own opinion. It only expands the luck factor rather than skill, imo.

Put simply, he thinks he is smarter than everyone else and is thus ahead of the curve when it comes to predicting future outcomes.

Being able to predict that Wilson would get the lion's share of the touches is a tremendous benefit because his price is rising.

You say we "can't know" something. And to some extent it's true. But if I am certain enough to make my move on Wilson months ago, you saying that I don't really "know" what's going to happen is a meaningless distinction. Why? Because in this game (fantasy football), particularly in dynasty and keeper formats, we are always on the clock in terms of player evaluations and taking a wait-and-see position looks no different today than does the pessimistic position that was being voiced a few weeks ago. Neither one bought Wilson back when his price was cheaper.

So waiting for clarity in fantasy football is no different really than taking the "under" position, the people taking the "over" position are going to outbid you or move first either way.

 

[GoBirds]

So Brown is only out 4-6 weeks? Any worries it goes back to RBBC?

How do you like Wilson compared to Lacy?

 

[Sabertooth]

I like Wilson more than Lacy. I think the big play threat is much greater with Wilson. Lacy has been dinged on and off since being drafted, even before then.

 

[Khy]

So Brown is only out 4-6 weeks? Any worries it goes back to RBBC?

How do you like Wilson compared to Lacy?

4-6 weeks is when he starts practicing again. He's probably our another week or two past that. As for the RBBC it depends. If Wilson runs with the job like most of us think he will? No, zero worry. If he struggles at all though. Then yeah probably.

Wilson should be drafted awhile before Lacy.

 

[Pots]

So Brown is only out 4-6 weeks? Any worries it goes back to RBBC?

How do you like Wilson compared to Lacy?

Wilson is a good bit above Lacy IMO. I'm surprised that this news has you questioning it. Wilson will have 4-6 games to prove how effective he can be as a 3-down back, Unless he fumbles a lot or gets hurt, he should have a great fantasy season.

 

[ponchsox]

So Brown is only out 4-6 weeks? Any worries it goes back to RBBC?

How do you like Wilson compared to Lacy?

When was it ever a RBBC?

 

[rizzler]

Any worries it goes back to RBBC?

It never was

 

[drake_ovo]

i cannot wait until sunday night football. primetime. dallas defense. lmaooooooo

wilson is a must start

 

[Man of Zen]

Let's retreat to 2007.

Because failing to understand a point isn't the same as it's not being a very good one.

The Plaxico stats, as described above, range from a high-altitude bomb festival to a "dump it to the tall guy" default strategy. What's worth noticing is how those usage patterns compared to both the efficacy of the run game, and to the usage patterns when the Giants weren't scrambling to replace an integral cog of their RBBC during his injury.

In this case, YES, only 3 TD's in six weeks for Plaxico were GL TD's. That usage, of course, sounds a whole lot smaller than "8 in six weeks," but is still usage well in excess of what they would normally produce in the era's offense with all parts healthy. Especially noteworthy would be that the starting RB, who became all but a full-on bellcow during the stretch, had only 2 TD's...3 for the whole season.

And YES, Plaxico was instead of simply a goalline hog, recipient of a disproportionate number of longballs. But then, that too pointed to a fundamental shift in the way the NYG's ran the offense over that stretch. The remainder of his season is scattered with occasional red zone TD's, but the vertical attack to Plax became a much more prominent feature of the offense during Jacobs's absence. Another symptom of the crippled goal line attack -- the choice to attack from a distance because it became a higher-percentage play relative to the alternatives.

The way Coughlin used both the running and the passing games, taken in their total, changed drastically during that stretch. All of which is to say, yes, without question, he's adapted his offense to shifting personnel before. Will he do it again? One can only conjecture. But one can't simply blow history off logically and expect the resulting argument to hold water. It just becomes a desperate play to justify a position a wiser man would move on from for his own season's good.

 

[Khy]

Let's retreat to 2007.

Because failing to understand a point isn't the same as it's not being a very good one.

The Plaxico stats, as described above, range from a high-altitude bomb festival to a "dump it to the tall guy" default strategy. What's worth noticing is how those usage patterns compared to both the efficacy of the run game, and to the usage patterns when the Giants weren't scrambling to replace an integral cog of their RBBC during his injury.

In this case, YES, only 3 TD's in six weeks for Plaxico were GL TD's. That usage, of course, sounds a whole lot smaller than "8 in six weeks," but is still usage well in excess of what they would normally produce in the era's offense with all parts healthy. Especially noteworthy would be that the starting RB, who became all but a full-on bellcow during the stretch, had only 2 TD's...3 for the whole season.

And YES, Plaxico was instead of simply a goalline hog, recipient of a disproportionate number of longballs. But then, that too pointed to a fundamental shift in the way the NYG's ran the offense over that stretch. The remainder of his season is scattered with occasional red zone TD's, but the vertical attack to Plax became a much more prominent feature of the offense during Jacobs's absence. Another symptom of the crippled goal line attack -- the choice to attack from a distance because it became a higher-percentage play relative to the alternatives.

The way Coughlin used both the running and the passing games, taken in their total, changed drastically during that stretch. All of which is to say, yes, without question, he's adapted his offense to shifting personnel before. Will he do it again? One can only conjecture. But one can't simply blow history off logically and expect the resulting argument to hold water. It just becomes a desperate play to justify a position a wiser man would move on from for his own season's good.

Okay sure, I can buy that the offense shifted slightly that resulted in Plaxico having more long balls. It's also a different situation. We're talking about the #1 RB for the team going down and being replaced by his backup. Versus the #2 RB for the team going down and the #1 still being in place. There's obviously other things we're not evaluating here such as the scores at the time of the "bombs" and the talent of the defenses he was facing (I honestly can't remember with certainty how good certain teams pass coverages were 6 seasons ago). I'm not trying to completely discount what you're saying, just simply saying I really don't see how any of this proves that the Giants went to more of a high passing attack during that stretch.

Actually, looking at Eli's stats during that 8 TD stretch in 2007 Eli averaged 32.6 attempts per game. During the final 10 games of the season his average went up by almost a full attempt per game to 33.3 attempts per game. Obviously, to get an even further analysis of this we'd need to look at his attempts from within the 10 or below yard line to evaluate how much more they were passing in the red zone. But the simple point is this points more to "coincidence" that Plaxico had a big run of big plays and less to fact that the Giants adjusted their game plan during Jacobs absence.

 

[Seven Costanza]

If the Giants are looking to add a RB to help out on 3rd down and goal line....dont you guys think Michael Turner would make sense?

Trust me, I considered him "well past his prime" at the start of last year....but if he does have one thing he does fairly well it is 3rd/4th and short and goal line...

 

[Bobtender]

no RBBC...by the time Brown is back (4-6 weeks) Wilson will be injuried, and then he'll get the full load.

Wilson is not durable enough to be the main back

 

[urbanhack]

no RBBC...by the time Brown is back (4-6 weeks) Wilson will be injuried,

GREAT STUFF!

 

[Koya]

If the Giants are looking to add a RB to help out on 3rd down and goal line....dont you guys think Michael Turner would make sense?

Trust me, I considered him "well past his prime" at the start of last year....but if he does have one thing he does fairly well it is 3rd/4th and short and goal line...

Why would Turner be a 3rd down back target? Goal line I can see, but honestly you plug Torain in there I bet it's not that different. This isn't MT of a few years back, or even a couple years ago. Maybe they can get Beanie Wells, and between he and Brown you might have almost one full healthy set of limbs.

 

[Kenny Powers]

This thread should just be locked until next sunday.

 

[Banger]

no RBBC...by the time Brown is back (4-6 weeks) Wilson will be injuried, and then he'll get the full load.

Wilson is not durable enough to be the main back

Based on?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

no RBBC...by the time Brown is back (4-6 weeks) Wilson will be injuried, and then he'll get the full load.

Wilson is not durable enough to be the main back

Based on?

His 334 touches in 14 games as a junior... where he didnt get hurt or miss time.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Giants coach Tom Coughlin hinted he is comfortable with David Wilson carrying a larger workload in the wake of Andre Brown's left-leg fracture.
"You have to do what you have to do in order to win," Coughlin explained. "It is a game of strength and endurance and power and that kind of thing. David is a guy who has outstanding endurance and strength. I’m not aware of what the number (of carries) might be, but I’m sure we’ll work that out." Wilson should have no trouble reaching 20-plus touches in Week 1 against the Cowboys. He's also the new favorite for all goal-line work in New York.

Source: Ralph Vacchiano on Twitter

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Rotoworld:

Giants coach Tom Coughlin hinted he is comfortable with David Wilson carrying a larger workload in the wake of Andre Brown's left-leg fracture.
"You have to do what you have to do in order to win," Coughlin explained. "It is a game of strength and endurance and power and that kind of thing. David is a guy who has outstanding endurance and strength. I’m not aware of what the number (of carries) might be, but I’m sure we’ll work that out." Wilson should have no trouble reaching 20-plus touches in Week 1 against the Cowboys. He's also the new favorite for all goal-line work in New York.

Source: Ralph Vacchiano on Twitter

Exactly. ♛

 

[Cookiemonster]

no RBBC...by the time Brown is back (4-6 weeks) Wilson will be injuried, and then he'll get the full load.

Wilson is not durable enough to be the main back

Based on?

Just because it's that time of year. A lot of extra patience is needed between last week and a month from now just to read these boards.

I'm a Wilson is a future top 5 guy. He still needs to learn some things; get down or out of bounds when there's nothing left, become more patient with the blocking scheme, widen the vision cone, become intimate with the pass blocking/route running. He's not there yet, but he has a very good opportunity to be there in the next year or two. Borderline top 10 RB this year. Who knows, I was a year too late on J. Charles and Shady. We'll see what he's made of this year and we'll know next year if he's topped out yet.

 

[Khy]

no RBBC...by the time Brown is back (4-6 weeks) Wilson will be injuried, and then he'll get the full load.

Wilson is not durable enough to be the main back

Based on?

Just because it's that time of year. A lot of extra patience is needed between last week and a month from now just to read these boards.

I'm a Wilson is a future top 5 guy. He still needs to learn some things; get down or out of bounds when there's nothing left, become more patient with the blocking scheme, widen the vision cone, become intimate with the pass blocking/route running. He's not there yet, but he has a very good opportunity to be there in the next year or two. Borderline top 10 RB this year. Who knows, I was a year too late on J. Charles and Shady. We'll see what he's made of this year and we'll know next year if he's topped out yet.

I wouldn't say he's topped out yet... I will say I think you're under-estimating how far along he is though. I honestly think with Brown now out of the picture for 4-6 weeks (or more) that Wilson has a really solid chance at Top 5 this season. I thought he had a solid chance at Top 10 prior to Brown's departure... which is the reason I reached for him in most of my drafts.

 

[Cookiemonster]

no RBBC...by the time Brown is back (4-6 weeks) Wilson will be injuried, and then he'll get the full load.

Wilson is not durable enough to be the main back

Based on?

Just because it's that time of year. A lot of extra patience is needed between last week and a month from now just to read these boards.

I'm a Wilson is a future top 5 guy. He still needs to learn some things; get down or out of bounds when there's nothing left, become more patient with the blocking scheme, widen the vision cone, become intimate with the pass blocking/route running. He's not there yet, but he has a very good opportunity to be there in the next year or two. Borderline top 10 RB this year. Who knows, I was a year too late on J. Charles and Shady. We'll see what he's made of this year and we'll know next year if he's topped out yet.

I wouldn't say he's topped out yet... I will say I think you're under-estimating how far along he is though. I honestly think with Brown now out of the picture for 4-6 weeks (or more) that Wilson has a really solid chance at Top 5 this season. I thought he had a solid chance at Top 10 prior to Brown's departure... which is the reason I reached for him in most of my drafts.

Oh, I'm hoping so. I shuffled draft picks to be in range to pick him as a rookie last year. I think he has special ability, but he also has shown a propensity to do some really bad things (running backwards, taking too much punishment) that may have worked in college but won't in the BIGS. He absolutely has potential to be top 5 this year, but he could get Eli nuked, fumble, get dinged, drop passes... any number of things could limit him and he's just too young and inexperienced to say with any certainty that he's reached his peak as a young, 22 year old who has most of his reps as a kick returner. I'm hoping for top 5, expecting around 10-12 and would be disappointed with anything outside of 20 (which would almost have to be injury). I'm a bit of a glass-half-empty guy but... If it tells you what I'm thinking on him, I'm committed to a playoff run with said dynasty team having Wilson as my #1 RB.

 

[Yenrub]

Rotoworld:

Giants coach Tom Coughlin hinted he is comfortable with David Wilson carrying a larger workload in the wake of Andre Brown's left-leg fracture.
"You have to do what you have to do in order to win," Coughlin explained. "It is a game of strength and endurance and power and that kind of thing. David is a guy who has outstanding endurance and strength. I’m not aware of what the number (of carries) might be, but I’m sure we’ll work that out." Wilson should have no trouble reaching 20-plus touches in Week 1 against the Cowboys. He's also the new favorite for all goal-line work in New York.

Source: Ralph Vacchiano on Twitter

http://www.giants.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/RB-David-Wilson-ready-for-primetime-role/bef39e87-22b3-4664-80a2-8636b6ee2c8c

[SIZE=9pt]Until Brown does return, neither Wilson nor Coughlin have any qualms about handing the ball to the young back in heavily-trafficked areas where Brown was expected to get many of his carries.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=9pt]“I have the opportunity and, due to Dre getting injured, someone’s got to do it,” Wilson said. “Going into it, it was mainly his job. We had a goal line package where he was the guy to go in and get those tough yards. Now he’s out and I’m definitely going to have to step up and use all that stuff.[/SIZE]

“People just judge off my size. I’m looking forward to getting in there and getting those tough yards.”

 

[Khy]

no RBBC...by the time Brown is back (4-6 weeks) Wilson will be injuried, and then he'll get the full load.

Wilson is not durable enough to be the main back

Based on?

Just because it's that time of year. A lot of extra patience is needed between last week and a month from now just to read these boards.

I'm a Wilson is a future top 5 guy. He still needs to learn some things; get down or out of bounds when there's nothing left, become more patient with the blocking scheme, widen the vision cone, become intimate with the pass blocking/route running. He's not there yet, but he has a very good opportunity to be there in the next year or two. Borderline top 10 RB this year. Who knows, I was a year too late on J. Charles and Shady. We'll see what he's made of this year and we'll know next year if he's topped out yet.

I wouldn't say he's topped out yet... I will say I think you're under-estimating how far along he is though. I honestly think with Brown now out of the picture for 4-6 weeks (or more) that Wilson has a really solid chance at Top 5 this season. I thought he had a solid chance at Top 10 prior to Brown's departure... which is the reason I reached for him in most of my drafts.

Oh, I'm hoping so. I shuffled draft picks to be in range to pick him as a rookie last year. I think he has special ability, but he also has shown a propensity to do some really bad things (running backwards, taking too much punishment) that may have worked in college but won't in the BIGS. He absolutely has potential to be top 5 this year, but he could get Eli nuked, fumble, get dinged, drop passes... any number of things could limit him and he's just too young and inexperienced to say with any certainty that he's reached his peak as a young, 22 year old who has most of his reps as a kick returner. I'm hoping for top 5, expecting around 10-12 and would be disappointed with anything outside of 20 (which would almost have to be injury). I'm a bit of a glass-half-empty guy but... If it tells you what I'm thinking on him, I'm committed to a playoff run with said dynasty team having Wilson as my #1 RB.

From watching every preseason snap this season I've seen a few things. Albeit only 24 carries but that's actually about 1/3 of what he had last season.

- He seems to have stopped the tendency to run backward... it may not be completely gone. But he's improved massively.

- He has yet to fumble since his 2nd carry last season so 161 touches of the ball since without a fumble. It's safe to say this issue is solved.

- Has he really had issues dropping passes? He's seemed really solid at receiving this preseason. I'm not sure I've seen a single drop that I can recall although I'm not looking at the stats in front of me. Last season he also had several really good receptions.

I've also never understood the whole "he takes too much punishment" thing. Every 'good' NFL back does this... so I just don't understand it. If they break tackles their taking too much punishment, if they go down after first contact. They suck cause they don't break tackles.

Here are some tidbits from a certain RBs pre-draft profile. A list of 'cons' that sound awfully familiar to one David Wilson. See if we can figure out who it is...

Refuses to go down easily and is willing to fight to break tackles … Is rarely straightened up on first contact and usually picks up at least a couple of yards after the first hit … Has very good speed and can bounce runs to the outside… Has little experience as a pass blocker or receiver. Takes a lot of hits, many times because he initiates them…

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

That sounds like AP.