***David Wilson Bandwagon*** (3 Viewers)

[TheFanatic]

Joique is realistic? He is top 5 in scoring in most formats

may be to some. I'm pretty deep and I have Bell and I might deal him for Wilson given the opportunity because I can park him on my bench and wait. If he blows up, he plays, if he continues to suck, it was a bad trade but wouldn't cripple me. I certainly don't expect Bell to remain top 5, 10 or 20 over the course of the year...nor do I expect Wilson to remain 64th or whatever he is. Seasons have ebbs and flows and timing is everything.

Yeah, I think we saw this week that Bell's real value comes from goal-line carries and Bush being injured. If Bush were to miss time again we saw that Bell is probably an elite-RB1 start during the time Bush misses. But otherwise, he's a low-RB2/high upside Flex. Wilson still does have the potential to be who we thought he'd be coming into the season. So if you have the room to bench him it's worth it.

Again talking regarding Jamaal Charles very similar first and second season starts... it took Charles until Week 10 to finally do something and when he did he exploded. In his second season during his last 8 games he posted 161 Carries, 968 yards, 6.01ypc and 7 TDs after starting the season during the first 8 games with 29 carries, 152 yards, 5.24ypc and 0 TDs.

Is David Wilson Jammal Charles? No, Jamaal Charles is Jamaal Charles and nobody else. But the point does stand to reason. Charles was being under utilized by the Chiefs and didn't see a real chance until the team started the season 1-7 through the first 8 games. Then they finally said "Ahh screw it, Larry Johnson sucks, lets see what Charles can do" and he exploded. We may be seeing a similar situation here with Wilson. We'd like to 'hope' that it happens sooner than Week 10 for Wilson and it might. Is Wilson going to come in and put together 1000 yards over 8 games and 7 TDs? Maybe... maybe not.

The main point here is that we have to assume he eventually gets the chance again to be that true lead back. We haven't seen any 'reason to believe' that right now. And people like Eminence and B-Deep can make the argument that "the coaches may not see the talent everyone else thinks they're seeing" but I think that's a ridiculous comment. It's a wait and see approach and he's still an amazing buy-low in dynasty and a worthwhile buy low if you have room to stash him in redraft.

I still think even on 15 carries there's a good chance he explodes this week against Philly in what should be a closer game. Philly's defense has been a complete mess and no where even close to the caliber of Dallas, Denver, Carolina or KC.

I don't like being grouped in with Eminence

and, my position is that the coaches are doing what they think gives them the best chance to win, which includes not giving Wilson as many carries as you would, and continuing to sub in the other Running Backs. Given that, which is not an opinion or thought it is a fact, the idea that they don't see the upside you see is certainly not ridiculous. It may be wrong, the coaches may think this and they may be wrong, but to totally dismiss the fact that they don't think he has the upside you do seems like tunnel vision. I don;t know if this kid will be a succesful NFL RB, I am just arguing with people who seem to think he is can't miss talent and the giants know it. Maybe he turns it around, but maybe he is a dud and never amounts to anything. I see both as possible, you seem to say his eventual success is inevitable.

I am 100% convinced that if the giants thought this guy was an elite RB they'd keep him on the field more.

what is your position on why he is not featured? They are willing to lose these games to bring him along slowly? Are they are willing to lose these games because they want to teach him a lesson? Or do they think the game plan that gives them the best chance to win is not one where he is featured?

Or they have no idea otherwise they would have at least one win. The breakdown of the line has stopped every aspect of the game plan both running and passing. They look completely lost as a coaching staff. Look at Eli's completion percentage after each of the first four games. It is dropping rapidly...

 

[msudaisy26]

CHOO- CHOO-

shouldn't you be over in the Le'Veon Bell thread tooting your own horn saying the guy is a beast after 1 game of 40 yards rushing?

Good thing I play Fantasy Football and Le'Veon Bell has more Fantasy Points in his first week playing than David Wilson has in 4-weeks combined!

#suckit

Wow at first I thought you were just a little over zealous because your gamble worked out. Now we can tell that you are an epic d-bag. Guess we can add you to the list.

 

[cvnpoka]

eminence totally owning this thread.

perhaps its time to reconsider if this guy is an "elite talent." im no scout but this guy has done nothing elite other than getting drafted in the first round. still, plenty of first round picks fail miserably at rb.

and regardless of his ability or potential, he is in an awful fantasy situation this year.

 

[Khy]

Joique is realistic? He is top 5 in scoring in most formats

may be to some. I'm pretty deep and I have Bell and I might deal him for Wilson given the opportunity because I can park him on my bench and wait. If he blows up, he plays, if he continues to suck, it was a bad trade but wouldn't cripple me. I certainly don't expect Bell to remain top 5, 10 or 20 over the course of the year...nor do I expect Wilson to remain 64th or whatever he is. Seasons have ebbs and flows and timing is everything.

Yeah, I think we saw this week that Bell's real value comes from goal-line carries and Bush being injured. If Bush were to miss time again we saw that Bell is probably an elite-RB1 start during the time Bush misses. But otherwise, he's a low-RB2/high upside Flex. Wilson still does have the potential to be who we thought he'd be coming into the season. So if you have the room to bench him it's worth it.

Again talking regarding Jamaal Charles very similar first and second season starts... it took Charles until Week 10 to finally do something and when he did he exploded. In his second season during his last 8 games he posted 161 Carries, 968 yards, 6.01ypc and 7 TDs after starting the season during the first 8 games with 29 carries, 152 yards, 5.24ypc and 0 TDs.

Is David Wilson Jammal Charles? No, Jamaal Charles is Jamaal Charles and nobody else. But the point does stand to reason. Charles was being under utilized by the Chiefs and didn't see a real chance until the team started the season 1-7 through the first 8 games. Then they finally said "Ahh screw it, Larry Johnson sucks, lets see what Charles can do" and he exploded. We may be seeing a similar situation here with Wilson. We'd like to 'hope' that it happens sooner than Week 10 for Wilson and it might. Is Wilson going to come in and put together 1000 yards over 8 games and 7 TDs? Maybe... maybe not.

The main point here is that we have to assume he eventually gets the chance again to be that true lead back. We haven't seen any 'reason to believe' that right now. And people like Eminence and B-Deep can make the argument that "the coaches may not see the talent everyone else thinks they're seeing" but I think that's a ridiculous comment. It's a wait and see approach and he's still an amazing buy-low in dynasty and a worthwhile buy low if you have room to stash him in redraft.

I still think even on 15 carries there's a good chance he explodes this week against Philly in what should be a closer game. Philly's defense has been a complete mess and no where even close to the caliber of Dallas, Denver, Carolina or KC.

I don't like being grouped in with Eminence

and, my position is that the coaches are doing what they think gives them the best chance to win, which includes not giving Wilson as many carries as you would, and continuing to sub in the other Running Backs. Given that, which is not an opinion or thought it is a fact, the idea that they don't see the upside you see is certainly not ridiculous. It may be wrong, the coaches may think this and they may be wrong, but to totally dismiss the fact that they don't think he has the upside you do seems like tunnel vision. I don;t know if this kid will be a succesful NFL RB, I am just arguing with people who seem to think he is can't miss talent and the giants know it. Maybe he turns it around, but maybe he is a dud and never amounts to anything. I see both as possible, you seem to say his eventual success is inevitable.

I am 100% convinced that if the giants thought this guy was an elite RB they'd keep him on the field more.

what is your position on why he is not featured? They are willing to lose these games to bring him along slowly? Are they are willing to lose these games because they want to teach him a lesson? Or do they think the game plan that gives them the best chance to win is not one where he is featured?

Sure, I can agree with the fact that to this point in the season they may have not thought he was ready to be a lead back. Therefore, leading to his current snap counts (50% the last two weeks) and carries (11 and 13 the past two weeks). My opinion differs from yours but has the same conclusion.

I think they came into snap 1 of Week 1 with the full intention on giving David Wilson around 75% of the snaps and 15-20 touches per game. After his first fumble nothing changed in the game plan. They showed this by putting him out there and going right back to him and continuing what would have been a pace of around 15-20 touches during the Dallas game had he not fumbled a second time. In the first game on 19 first half snaps, 6 of them were David Wilson runs and 1 was a David Wilson target (the Eli int on the first snap). So had he not fumbled he was 'on pace' for about 14 touches in that game. But he was also 36% of their total offense in the first half and 19 snaps is extremely low for the average first half. Assuming a more average 25-30 snaps it's reasonable that without the fumble he'd have seen around 17 touches in the first game.

As we all know, he had that second fumble and was pulled from the game. Not as punishment but because at that point putting him back in there would have probably messed with his head if he fumbled again. The right move for a young rookie was to pull him from the game and sit him and get him to calm down. I firmly believe this was the correct move and the first step into making Wilson into the lead back 'again' if you will.

Then came the next part of the equation. Which was re-building his confidence. In Week 2, they clearly put him on a snap count. And put him back on Kick Returns where he was comfortable and had all the confidence in the world after leading the league last season in KR yardage and average. This was a move I also really liked, some people in this thread have tried to make the argument that this is a 'mans' game and theres no time to wait for some child to build his confidence. And that Wilson has to stop being such a baby and suck it up and play. However, that's asinine. There are hundreds of specific examples of a player that was previously thought of as "bad" or a "bust" that was given a chance by the coaches and they instilled confidence in them and they turned it around.

Week 3 came around, Wilson got around 50% of the work this time around and was still on KR. I felt like they misused him a little bit in this game but nothing that crazy. The game got away from them early. I just felt like they could have gotten more creative with usage of screens and tosses for Wilson to try and make something happen on the ground. I think I had less of a problem with Wilson's lack of usage than I did with their usage of the other RBs on the roster. For example, running Wilson between the tackles on every play then giving tosses to Brandon Jacobs who probably couldn't even run a 4.7 40 at this point in his career. I felt like it was just bad coaching all around not just in Wilson's case.

Week 4... I really expected to see more than 50% of the work for Wilson this week. I was surprised he was held to just 50% of the snaps again. That said he did get 13 carries, two more than the week prior. And regardless of what some uninformed people in this thread would like to think, all but 1 of them came when the game was still in reach. He only had 1 garbage time carry. The problem I'm starting to notice as well as other analysts that I've read around the internet is that the Giants at this point are beginning to telegraph their plays. If I, some random guy on his couch who just watches a lot of football can guess almost every play the team's going to run, I'm sure Andy Reid can do the same. As I posted earlier... 50% of the time Wilson was on the field they ran the ball and 80% of the time Da'rel Scott was on the field they passed. Those kind of telegraphs are completely unacceptable from an NFL offense.

So cliff notes version:

- Wilson isn't being misused... the RBs are being misused period.

- They are telegraphing their plays way to much, if Scott is on the field the defense knows with 80% accuracy that it's going to be a pass. Play action becomes useless. If Wilson's on the field, they know there is a good shot at him running the ball which means they run blitz and plug the lanes.

- Wilson is trying to be slowly groomed to build his confidence

What I'd like to see this week to make me feel better about the situation (besides a Giants win):

- I'd like to see him on the field for the entire first two drives. It's unlikely to happen. But I'd be interested in seeing how a defense can defend against both him AND Eli when it's not so completely obvious what they're doing. I feel like it'd cause more breakdowns in coverage, less accurately timed blitzes and create more running lanes.

- I'd like to see Wilson actually fed the ball in succession. Don't give him a run, watch him break two tackles and run for 12 yards. Then pull him for Scott and say "HEY, BIG RUN. PLAY ACTION PASS" cause you might as well just hold up a cardboard sign from the sidelines that says that. Give him the ball, get the 12 yard run... then here's the real kicker... LEAVE HIM IN THE GAME. So the defense doesn't know what you're about to do... you may run him again, you may play action pass, you may screen it to him. They have no idea. But taking him out and putting Scott in? The Chiefs didn't bite on a single play action that was attempted in those scenarios yesterday.

Some other notes... for those of you that aren't actually watching the games and keep jumping to various conclusions that are false and you don't know because you're not watching the games:

Pass Blocking: He's actually been really good since Week 1. Since Week 1 he hasn't allowed a single sack, hit or hurry on Eli. Da'Rel Scott on the other hand has, as has Brandon Jacobs. Wilson's been chipping when coming out of the backfield for a pass and he's been standing his ground when asked to stay back and protect Eli.

Tackle Breaking: If you're going to try and tell me he can't break tackles. I'll one again refer you to the stat line of his 11 missed tackles on the season, tied for 6th in the league. And he's only behind guys that have almost triple the carries he has on the season.

Fumbles: He has two on the season... they both came in the first game. He has 3 on his career through his first 109 career carries. By comparison, in his first 158 carries Adrian Peterson had 3 fumbles. Jamaal Charles had 3 fumbles in his first 74 career carries. CJ Spiller had 5 in his first 71 career carries. Barry Sanders had 10 in his rookie season. Point being... relax. Almost every elite RB that we know of now at the beginning of their career went through fumbling issues.

 

[monk]

Joique is realistic? He is top 5 in scoring in most formats

may be to some. I'm pretty deep and I have Bell and I might deal him for Wilson given the opportunity because I can park him on my bench and wait. If he blows up, he plays, if he continues to suck, it was a bad trade but wouldn't cripple me. I certainly don't expect Bell to remain top 5, 10 or 20 over the course of the year...nor do I expect Wilson to remain 64th or whatever he is. Seasons have ebbs and flows and timing is everything.

Yeah, I think we saw this week that Bell's real value comes from goal-line carries and Bush being injured. If Bush were to miss time again we saw that Bell is probably an elite-RB1 start during the time Bush misses. But otherwise, he's a low-RB2/high upside Flex. Wilson still does have the potential to be who we thought he'd be coming into the season. So if you have the room to bench him it's worth it.

Again talking regarding Jamaal Charles very similar first and second season starts... it took Charles until Week 10 to finally do something and when he did he exploded. In his second season during his last 8 games he posted 161 Carries, 968 yards, 6.01ypc and 7 TDs after starting the season during the first 8 games with 29 carries, 152 yards, 5.24ypc and 0 TDs.

Is David Wilson Jammal Charles? No, Jamaal Charles is Jamaal Charles and nobody else. But the point does stand to reason. Charles was being under utilized by the Chiefs and didn't see a real chance until the team started the season 1-7 through the first 8 games. Then they finally said "Ahh screw it, Larry Johnson sucks, lets see what Charles can do" and he exploded. We may be seeing a similar situation here with Wilson. We'd like to 'hope' that it happens sooner than Week 10 for Wilson and it might. Is Wilson going to come in and put together 1000 yards over 8 games and 7 TDs? Maybe... maybe not.

The main point here is that we have to assume he eventually gets the chance again to be that true lead back. We haven't seen any 'reason to believe' that right now. And people like Eminence and B-Deep can make the argument that "the coaches may not see the talent everyone else thinks they're seeing" but I think that's a ridiculous comment. It's a wait and see approach and he's still an amazing buy-low in dynasty and a worthwhile buy low if you have room to stash him in redraft.

I still think even on 15 carries there's a good chance he explodes this week against Philly in what should be a closer game. Philly's defense has been a complete mess and no where even close to the caliber of Dallas, Denver, Carolina or KC.

I don't like being grouped in with Eminence

and, my position is that the coaches are doing what they think gives them the best chance to win, which includes not giving Wilson as many carries as you would, and continuing to sub in the other Running Backs. Given that, which is not an opinion or thought it is a fact, the idea that they don't see the upside you see is certainly not ridiculous. It may be wrong, the coaches may think this and they may be wrong, but to totally dismiss the fact that they don't think he has the upside you do seems like tunnel vision. I don;t know if this kid will be a succesful NFL RB, I am just arguing with people who seem to think he is can't miss talent and the giants know it. Maybe he turns it around, but maybe he is a dud and never amounts to anything. I see both as possible, you seem to say his eventual success is inevitable.

I am 100% convinced that if the giants thought this guy was an elite RB they'd keep him on the field more.

what is your position on why he is not featured? They are willing to lose these games to bring him along slowly? Are they are willing to lose these games because they want to teach him a lesson? Or do they think the game plan that gives them the best chance to win is not one where he is featured?

Or they have no idea otherwise they would have at least one win. The breakdown of the line has stopped every aspect of the game plan both running and passing. They look completely lost as a coaching staff. Look at Eli's completion percentage after each of the first four games. It is dropping rapidly...

Because everyone knows when they are running and when they are passing. I am pretty sure the DC on the opposing teams know...

Wilson in - play the run

Scott in - play the pass

You will be right very often

 

[Khy]

Joique is realistic? He is top 5 in scoring in most formats

may be to some. I'm pretty deep and I have Bell and I might deal him for Wilson given the opportunity because I can park him on my bench and wait. If he blows up, he plays, if he continues to suck, it was a bad trade but wouldn't cripple me. I certainly don't expect Bell to remain top 5, 10 or 20 over the course of the year...nor do I expect Wilson to remain 64th or whatever he is. Seasons have ebbs and flows and timing is everything.

Yeah, I think we saw this week that Bell's real value comes from goal-line carries and Bush being injured. If Bush were to miss time again we saw that Bell is probably an elite-RB1 start during the time Bush misses. But otherwise, he's a low-RB2/high upside Flex. Wilson still does have the potential to be who we thought he'd be coming into the season. So if you have the room to bench him it's worth it.

Again talking regarding Jamaal Charles very similar first and second season starts... it took Charles until Week 10 to finally do something and when he did he exploded. In his second season during his last 8 games he posted 161 Carries, 968 yards, 6.01ypc and 7 TDs after starting the season during the first 8 games with 29 carries, 152 yards, 5.24ypc and 0 TDs.

Is David Wilson Jammal Charles? No, Jamaal Charles is Jamaal Charles and nobody else. But the point does stand to reason. Charles was being under utilized by the Chiefs and didn't see a real chance until the team started the season 1-7 through the first 8 games. Then they finally said "Ahh screw it, Larry Johnson sucks, lets see what Charles can do" and he exploded. We may be seeing a similar situation here with Wilson. We'd like to 'hope' that it happens sooner than Week 10 for Wilson and it might. Is Wilson going to come in and put together 1000 yards over 8 games and 7 TDs? Maybe... maybe not.

The main point here is that we have to assume he eventually gets the chance again to be that true lead back. We haven't seen any 'reason to believe' that right now. And people like Eminence and B-Deep can make the argument that "the coaches may not see the talent everyone else thinks they're seeing" but I think that's a ridiculous comment. It's a wait and see approach and he's still an amazing buy-low in dynasty and a worthwhile buy low if you have room to stash him in redraft.

I still think even on 15 carries there's a good chance he explodes this week against Philly in what should be a closer game. Philly's defense has been a complete mess and no where even close to the caliber of Dallas, Denver, Carolina or KC.

I don't like being grouped in with Eminence

and, my position is that the coaches are doing what they think gives them the best chance to win, which includes not giving Wilson as many carries as you would, and continuing to sub in the other Running Backs. Given that, which is not an opinion or thought it is a fact, the idea that they don't see the upside you see is certainly not ridiculous. It may be wrong, the coaches may think this and they may be wrong, but to totally dismiss the fact that they don't think he has the upside you do seems like tunnel vision. I don;t know if this kid will be a succesful NFL RB, I am just arguing with people who seem to think he is can't miss talent and the giants know it. Maybe he turns it around, but maybe he is a dud and never amounts to anything. I see both as possible, you seem to say his eventual success is inevitable.

I am 100% convinced that if the giants thought this guy was an elite RB they'd keep him on the field more.

what is your position on why he is not featured? They are willing to lose these games to bring him along slowly? Are they are willing to lose these games because they want to teach him a lesson? Or do they think the game plan that gives them the best chance to win is not one where he is featured?

Or they have no idea otherwise they would have at least one win. The breakdown of the line has stopped every aspect of the game plan both running and passing. They look completely lost as a coaching staff. Look at Eli's completion percentage after each of the first four games. It is dropping rapidly...

Because everyone knows when they are running and when they are passing. I am pretty sure the DC on the opposing teams know...

Wilson in - play the run

Scott in - play the pass

You will be right very often

The numbers say you'll be accurate on that assumption about 60% of the time roughly. It's kind of insane to think they are being that easy to read. Gilbride should be ashamed of himself.

Scott - 21/28 snaps were passing plays or 75%

Wilson - 13/29 snaps were rushing plays or 44%

Combined - 34/57 snaps would be accurately guessed using this method or 59.6% accuracy.

 

[monk]

eminence totally owning this thread.

perhaps its time to reconsider if this guy is an "elite talent." im no scout but this guy has done nothing elite other than getting drafted in the first round. still, plenty of first round picks fail miserably at rb.

and regardless of his ability or potential, he is in an awful fantasy situation this year.

Leading the NFL in KR yardage as a rookie is elite (There was no one in the NFL better)

Leading all Rookie RBs in yards per carry (10 attempts min) is elite amongst rookie RBs

And I'm not sure but I would bet his TD per touch ratio (6 tds 132 touches) last year was up there with the Elite backs (min 6 tds)

In fact I bet his 1 Fumble in 132 touches last year puts him in the Elite class in that category

 

[Khy]

eminence totally owning this thread.

perhaps its time to reconsider if this guy is an "elite talent." im no scout but this guy has done nothing elite other than getting drafted in the first round. still, plenty of first round picks fail miserably at rb.

and regardless of his ability or potential, he is in an awful fantasy situation this year.

Leading the NFL in KR yardage as a rookie is elite (There was no one in the NFL better)

Leading all Rookie RBs in yards per carry (10 attempts min) is elite amongst rookie RBs

And I'm not sure but I would bet his TD per touch ratio (6 tds 132 touches) last year was up there with the Elite backs (min 6 tds)

In fact I bet his 1 Fumble in 132 touches last year puts him in the Elite class in that category

Lets not forget the fact that he averaged a 20+ yard carry every 14.6 touches. Compare that to last seasons top RBs....

AD: 12.88

Alfred Morris: 37.2

Marshawn Lynch: 35

Jamaal Charles: 25

Doug Martin: 29

He also averaged a 40+ yard carry every 35.5 touches... Comparing that to the top RBs again

AD: 43.5

Alfred Morris: 0

Marshawn Lynch: 157.5

Jamaal Charles: 57

Doug Martin: 63.8

Tell me again how he's not explosive and has shown no elite skills?

 

[ShaHBucks]

WTF happened to the Giants?

They lost their running game and their defense is all hurt. They were a "run and play good defense" team...now they are just a team.

"Lost their running game" isn't really 100% accurate, more like gave up on it. You'd think at 0-3 they'd look at the running game and say "You know this rotation thing we have between Wilson, Scott and Jacobs is failing pretty bad. We said Wilson was our guy going into the season. Lets give him a real chance". He saw 13 carries, Scott saw 5. But 3 of Scott's 5 came on 3rd and longs and were just "get the hell out of here" runs. It was a 10-7 game until late in the 3rd quarter and they were still passing more than they should be passing. Eli's completion percentage has been going down every week... 64.3%, 57.1%, 52.2%, 48.6%. I just don't understand that at 0-4 and Eli sucking rather badly at this point, and none of the other RBs showing any real promise AND Wilson being pretty decent the past 3 games in pass protection. How you don't just feed the kid and keep him out there for a whole drive or two and see what happens. You're 0-4... wtf do you have to lose? Clearly giving him 10 carries per week on average isn't working, try giving him 20 see what happens? What's the worst thing that happens? You go 0-5? OH NO... clearly you're going to be 0-5 if you keep this torrid pace of #### up. Change... It... Up. Or just fire Gilbride, that'd be helpful also.

What on earth makes you think he'd be more efficient with more carries?

For starters Wilson has been more efficient with more carries (7 for 2.7, 7 for 2.4, 11 for 3.5, 13 for 4.2)2nd he has looked pretty good the past few weeks despite the predictable and terrible offense. If he were in 70% of the time like he should be the offense would be less predictable, he would get more receptions, and would have more opportunities to bust a big play.

c'mon he's running for 3.0 ypc this year. If he were breaking big runs and making things happen I could maybe agree more with you but he's done very little with the carries he's gotten. He has 115 career touches and has proven nothing in the NFL. Most David Wilson owners are thinking with their fantasy hats on but he's not their saviour. The Giants problems go far beyond Wilson. I wouldn't look or expect for things to change any time soon.

Okay... wrong, he's averaging 3.42ypc on the season. And over the last two weeks 3.91ypc. The issue is not giving him the ball enough. You can't deny what the numbers tell you. The more carries he's gotten in a game the more stats he's put up and the more YPC he's posted.

Week 1: 7 carries, 19 yards, 2.71ypc

Week 2: 7 carries, 17 yards, 2.43ypc

Week 3: 11 carries, 39 yards, 3.55ypc

Week 4: 13 carries, 55 yards, 4.23ypc

Week 5: 20 carries, 100 yards, 5.0ypc???

This goes back to 2012 as well... the 3 games where he saw more than 10 carries he posted lines of 13 carries, 100 yards, 7.69ypc, 12 carries, 55 yards, 4.58ypc, 15 carries, 75 yards, 5.0ypc. He's proven that when given the ball he's productive with it. You can say he hasn't but he actually has... the biggest issue is that he hasn't been given the chance to see the full load. The most carries he has in his career is 15 and he posted 5.0ypc with that 15. Who knows what he could do with 20... What we do know is out of 5 games he's gotten 10+ carries in his stats are

64 carries, 324 yards, 5.06ypc... extrapolate those kinds of numbers to even just 15 carries a game and we're talking somewhere in the ballpark of 240 carries for 1214 yards on the season which isn't to bad to me.

When I put Wilson's 2012 in context I was mocked. It wasn't that impressive. He not a talent that can overcome this line by just getting more work. In Mia he'd be doing what Lamar Miller is doing, visa versa. I tried If anyone paid .25-.50c on the dollar for Wilson he will be the easiest flip of your life when he has a great game.

 

[Khy]

WTF happened to the Giants?

They lost their running game and their defense is all hurt. They were a "run and play good defense" team...now they are just a team.

"Lost their running game" isn't really 100% accurate, more like gave up on it. You'd think at 0-3 they'd look at the running game and say "You know this rotation thing we have between Wilson, Scott and Jacobs is failing pretty bad. We said Wilson was our guy going into the season. Lets give him a real chance". He saw 13 carries, Scott saw 5. But 3 of Scott's 5 came on 3rd and longs and were just "get the hell out of here" runs. It was a 10-7 game until late in the 3rd quarter and they were still passing more than they should be passing. Eli's completion percentage has been going down every week... 64.3%, 57.1%, 52.2%, 48.6%. I just don't understand that at 0-4 and Eli sucking rather badly at this point, and none of the other RBs showing any real promise AND Wilson being pretty decent the past 3 games in pass protection. How you don't just feed the kid and keep him out there for a whole drive or two and see what happens. You're 0-4... wtf do you have to lose? Clearly giving him 10 carries per week on average isn't working, try giving him 20 see what happens? What's the worst thing that happens? You go 0-5? OH NO... clearly you're going to be 0-5 if you keep this torrid pace of #### up. Change... It... Up. Or just fire Gilbride, that'd be helpful also.

What on earth makes you think he'd be more efficient with more carries?

For starters Wilson has been more efficient with more carries (7 for 2.7, 7 for 2.4, 11 for 3.5, 13 for 4.2)2nd he has looked pretty good the past few weeks despite the predictable and terrible offense. If he were in 70% of the time like he should be the offense would be less predictable, he would get more receptions, and would have more opportunities to bust a big play.

c'mon he's running for 3.0 ypc this year. If he were breaking big runs and making things happen I could maybe agree more with you but he's done very little with the carries he's gotten. He has 115 career touches and has proven nothing in the NFL. Most David Wilson owners are thinking with their fantasy hats on but he's not their saviour. The Giants problems go far beyond Wilson. I wouldn't look or expect for things to change any time soon.

Okay... wrong, he's averaging 3.42ypc on the season. And over the last two weeks 3.91ypc. The issue is not giving him the ball enough. You can't deny what the numbers tell you. The more carries he's gotten in a game the more stats he's put up and the more YPC he's posted.

Week 1: 7 carries, 19 yards, 2.71ypc

Week 2: 7 carries, 17 yards, 2.43ypc

Week 3: 11 carries, 39 yards, 3.55ypc

Week 4: 13 carries, 55 yards, 4.23ypc

Week 5: 20 carries, 100 yards, 5.0ypc???

This goes back to 2012 as well... the 3 games where he saw more than 10 carries he posted lines of 13 carries, 100 yards, 7.69ypc, 12 carries, 55 yards, 4.58ypc, 15 carries, 75 yards, 5.0ypc. He's proven that when given the ball he's productive with it. You can say he hasn't but he actually has... the biggest issue is that he hasn't been given the chance to see the full load. The most carries he has in his career is 15 and he posted 5.0ypc with that 15. Who knows what he could do with 20... What we do know is out of 5 games he's gotten 10+ carries in his stats are

64 carries, 324 yards, 5.06ypc... extrapolate those kinds of numbers to even just 15 carries a game and we're talking somewhere in the ballpark of 240 carries for 1214 yards on the season which isn't to bad to me.

When I put Wilson's 2012 in context I was mocked. It wasn't that impressive. He not a talent that can overcome this line by just getting more work. In Mia he'd be doing what Lamar Miller is doing, visa versa. I triedIf anyone paid .25-.50c on the dollar for Wilson he will be the easiest flip of your life when he has a great game.

He's definitely a better talent than Miller. Miller possesses slightly better speed than Wilson but almost none of his balance and agility.

And nobody would overcome this line play... I'm not sure even AD could overcome the way the Giants offensive line has been playing as of late. Not to mention how inept the coaching has been in essentially holding up signs saying that they're running or passing.

 

[cvnpoka]

eminence totally owning this thread.

perhaps its time to reconsider if this guy is an "elite talent." im no scout but this guy has done nothing elite other than getting drafted in the first round. still, plenty of first round picks fail miserably at rb.

and regardless of his ability or potential, he is in an awful fantasy situation this year.

Leading the NFL in KR yardage as a rookie is elite (There was no one in the NFL better)

Leading all Rookie RBs in yards per carry (10 attempts min) is elite amongst rookie RBs

And I'm not sure but I would bet his TD per touch ratio (6 tds 132 touches) last year was up there with the Elite backs (min 6 tds)

In fact I bet his 1 Fumble in 132 touches last year puts him in the Elite class in that category

Lets not forget the fact that he averaged a 20+ yard carry every 14.6 touches. Compare that to last seasons top RBs....

AD: 12.88

Alfred Morris: 37.2

Marshawn Lynch: 35

Jamaal Charles: 25

Doug Martin: 29

He also averaged a 40+ yard carry every 35.5 touches... Comparing that to the top RBs again

AD: 43.5

Alfred Morris: 0

Marshawn Lynch: 157.5

Jamaal Charles: 57

Doug Martin: 63.8

Tell me again how he's not explosive and has shown no elite skills?

both these points are some combination of sample size issues, selective endpoints, and irrelevant stats/comparison. further, almost all of those numbers have been rendered obsolete by this years evidence.

 

[Khy]

eminence totally owning this thread.

perhaps its time to reconsider if this guy is an "elite talent." im no scout but this guy has done nothing elite other than getting drafted in the first round. still, plenty of first round picks fail miserably at rb.

and regardless of his ability or potential, he is in an awful fantasy situation this year.

Leading the NFL in KR yardage as a rookie is elite (There was no one in the NFL better)

Leading all Rookie RBs in yards per carry (10 attempts min) is elite amongst rookie RBs

And I'm not sure but I would bet his TD per touch ratio (6 tds 132 touches) last year was up there with the Elite backs (min 6 tds)

In fact I bet his 1 Fumble in 132 touches last year puts him in the Elite class in that category

Lets not forget the fact that he averaged a 20+ yard carry every 14.6 touches. Compare that to last seasons top RBs....

AD: 12.88

Alfred Morris: 37.2

Marshawn Lynch: 35

Jamaal Charles: 25

Doug Martin: 29

He also averaged a 40+ yard carry every 35.5 touches... Comparing that to the top RBs again

AD: 43.5

Alfred Morris: 0

Marshawn Lynch: 157.5

Jamaal Charles: 57

Doug Martin: 63.8

Tell me again how he's not explosive and has shown no elite skills?

both these points are some combination of sample size issues, selective endpoints, and irrelevant stats/comparison. further, almost all of those numbers have been rendered obsolete by this years evidence.

You're right... the fact that he tied for 8th on 20+ yard runs and 4th for 40+ yard runs is selective end points. He had 5 20+ yard runs and 2 40+ yard runs on only 71 carries last season. If you even extrapolate that over say 230 carries we're talking about 16 20+ yard runs and 6.5 40+ yard runs which would have put him in 2nd place in both categories.

 

[ShaHBucks]

WTF happened to the Giants?

They lost their running game and their defense is all hurt. They were a "run and play good defense" team...now they are just a team.

"Lost their running game" isn't really 100% accurate, more like gave up on it. You'd think at 0-3 they'd look at the running game and say "You know this rotation thing we have between Wilson, Scott and Jacobs is failing pretty bad. We said Wilson was our guy going into the season. Lets give him a real chance". He saw 13 carries, Scott saw 5. But 3 of Scott's 5 came on 3rd and longs and were just "get the hell out of here" runs. It was a 10-7 game until late in the 3rd quarter and they were still passing more than they should be passing. Eli's completion percentage has been going down every week... 64.3%, 57.1%, 52.2%, 48.6%. I just don't understand that at 0-4 and Eli sucking rather badly at this point, and none of the other RBs showing any real promise AND Wilson being pretty decent the past 3 games in pass protection. How you don't just feed the kid and keep him out there for a whole drive or two and see what happens. You're 0-4... wtf do you have to lose? Clearly giving him 10 carries per week on average isn't working, try giving him 20 see what happens? What's the worst thing that happens? You go 0-5? OH NO... clearly you're going to be 0-5 if you keep this torrid pace of #### up. Change... It... Up. Or just fire Gilbride, that'd be helpful also.

What on earth makes you think he'd be more efficient with more carries?

For starters Wilson has been more efficient with more carries (7 for 2.7, 7 for 2.4, 11 for 3.5, 13 for 4.2)2nd he has looked pretty good the past few weeks despite the predictable and terrible offense. If he were in 70% of the time like he should be the offense would be less predictable, he would get more receptions, and would have more opportunities to bust a big play.

c'mon he's running for 3.0 ypc this year. If he were breaking big runs and making things happen I could maybe agree more with you but he's done very little with the carries he's gotten. He has 115 career touches and has proven nothing in the NFL. Most David Wilson owners are thinking with their fantasy hats on but he's not their saviour. The Giants problems go far beyond Wilson. I wouldn't look or expect for things to change any time soon.

Okay... wrong, he's averaging 3.42ypc on the season. And over the last two weeks 3.91ypc. The issue is not giving him the ball enough. You can't deny what the numbers tell you. The more carries he's gotten in a game the more stats he's put up and the more YPC he's posted.

Week 1: 7 carries, 19 yards, 2.71ypc

Week 2: 7 carries, 17 yards, 2.43ypc

Week 3: 11 carries, 39 yards, 3.55ypc

Week 4: 13 carries, 55 yards, 4.23ypc

Week 5: 20 carries, 100 yards, 5.0ypc???

This goes back to 2012 as well... the 3 games where he saw more than 10 carries he posted lines of 13 carries, 100 yards, 7.69ypc, 12 carries, 55 yards, 4.58ypc, 15 carries, 75 yards, 5.0ypc. He's proven that when given the ball he's productive with it. You can say he hasn't but he actually has... the biggest issue is that he hasn't been given the chance to see the full load. The most carries he has in his career is 15 and he posted 5.0ypc with that 15. Who knows what he could do with 20... What we do know is out of 5 games he's gotten 10+ carries in his stats are

64 carries, 324 yards, 5.06ypc... extrapolate those kinds of numbers to even just 15 carries a game and we're talking somewhere in the ballpark of 240 carries for 1214 yards on the season which isn't to bad to me.

When I put Wilson's 2012 in context I was mocked. It wasn't that impressive. He not a talent that can overcome this line by just getting more work. In Mia he'd be doing what Lamar Miller is doing, visa versa. I triedIf anyone paid .25-.50c on the dollar for Wilson he will be the easiest flip of your life when he has a great game.

He's definitely a better talent than Miller. Miller possesses slightly better speed than Wilson but almost none of his balance and agility.

And nobody would overcome this line play... I'm not sure even AD could overcome the way the Giants offensive line has been playing as of late. Not to mention how inept the coaching has been in essentially holding up signs saying that they're running or passing.

He is Lamar Miller. AP would be highly respected with this line still.

 

[cvnpoka]

eminence totally owning this thread.

perhaps its time to reconsider if this guy is an "elite talent." im no scout but this guy has done nothing elite other than getting drafted in the first round. still, plenty of first round picks fail miserably at rb.

and regardless of his ability or potential, he is in an awful fantasy situation this year.

Leading the NFL in KR yardage as a rookie is elite (There was no one in the NFL better)

Leading all Rookie RBs in yards per carry (10 attempts min) is elite amongst rookie RBs

And I'm not sure but I would bet his TD per touch ratio (6 tds 132 touches) last year was up there with the Elite backs (min 6 tds)

In fact I bet his 1 Fumble in 132 touches last year puts him in the Elite class in that category

Lets not forget the fact that he averaged a 20+ yard carry every 14.6 touches. Compare that to last seasons top RBs....

AD: 12.88

Alfred Morris: 37.2

Marshawn Lynch: 35

Jamaal Charles: 25

Doug Martin: 29

He also averaged a 40+ yard carry every 35.5 touches... Comparing that to the top RBs again

AD: 43.5

Alfred Morris: 0

Marshawn Lynch: 157.5

Jamaal Charles: 57

Doug Martin: 63.8

Tell me again how he's not explosive and has shown no elite skills?

both these points are some combination of sample size issues, selective endpoints, and irrelevant stats/comparison. further, almost all of those numbers have been rendered obsolete by this years evidence.

You're right... the fact that he tied for 8th on 20+ yard runs and 4th for 40+ yard runs is selective end points. He had 5 20+ yard runs and 2 40+ yard runs on only 71 carries last season. If you even extrapolate that over say 230 carries we're talking about 16 20+ yard runs and 6.5 40+ yard runs which would have put him in 2nd place in both categories.

its selective endpoints bc we now have 38 more carries to incorporate into that analysis. he has 0 20 yard runs from those 38 carries.

 

[monk]

WTF happened to the Giants?

They lost their running game and their defense is all hurt. They were a "run and play good defense" team...now they are just a team.

"Lost their running game" isn't really 100% accurate, more like gave up on it. You'd think at 0-3 they'd look at the running game and say "You know this rotation thing we have between Wilson, Scott and Jacobs is failing pretty bad. We said Wilson was our guy going into the season. Lets give him a real chance". He saw 13 carries, Scott saw 5. But 3 of Scott's 5 came on 3rd and longs and were just "get the hell out of here" runs. It was a 10-7 game until late in the 3rd quarter and they were still passing more than they should be passing. Eli's completion percentage has been going down every week... 64.3%, 57.1%, 52.2%, 48.6%. I just don't understand that at 0-4 and Eli sucking rather badly at this point, and none of the other RBs showing any real promise AND Wilson being pretty decent the past 3 games in pass protection. How you don't just feed the kid and keep him out there for a whole drive or two and see what happens. You're 0-4... wtf do you have to lose? Clearly giving him 10 carries per week on average isn't working, try giving him 20 see what happens? What's the worst thing that happens? You go 0-5? OH NO... clearly you're going to be 0-5 if you keep this torrid pace of #### up. Change... It... Up. Or just fire Gilbride, that'd be helpful also.

What on earth makes you think he'd be more efficient with more carries?

For starters Wilson has been more efficient with more carries (7 for 2.7, 7 for 2.4, 11 for 3.5, 13 for 4.2)2nd he has looked pretty good the past few weeks despite the predictable and terrible offense. If he were in 70% of the time like he should be the offense would be less predictable, he would get more receptions, and would have more opportunities to bust a big play.

c'mon he's running for 3.0 ypc this year. If he were breaking big runs and making things happen I could maybe agree more with you but he's done very little with the carries he's gotten. He has 115 career touches and has proven nothing in the NFL. Most David Wilson owners are thinking with their fantasy hats on but he's not their saviour. The Giants problems go far beyond Wilson. I wouldn't look or expect for things to change any time soon.

Okay... wrong, he's averaging 3.42ypc on the season. And over the last two weeks 3.91ypc. The issue is not giving him the ball enough. You can't deny what the numbers tell you. The more carries he's gotten in a game the more stats he's put up and the more YPC he's posted.

Week 1: 7 carries, 19 yards, 2.71ypc

Week 2: 7 carries, 17 yards, 2.43ypc

Week 3: 11 carries, 39 yards, 3.55ypc

Week 4: 13 carries, 55 yards, 4.23ypc

Week 5: 20 carries, 100 yards, 5.0ypc???

This goes back to 2012 as well... the 3 games where he saw more than 10 carries he posted lines of 13 carries, 100 yards, 7.69ypc, 12 carries, 55 yards, 4.58ypc, 15 carries, 75 yards, 5.0ypc. He's proven that when given the ball he's productive with it. You can say he hasn't but he actually has... the biggest issue is that he hasn't been given the chance to see the full load. The most carries he has in his career is 15 and he posted 5.0ypc with that 15. Who knows what he could do with 20... What we do know is out of 5 games he's gotten 10+ carries in his stats are

64 carries, 324 yards, 5.06ypc... extrapolate those kinds of numbers to even just 15 carries a game and we're talking somewhere in the ballpark of 240 carries for 1214 yards on the season which isn't to bad to me.

When I put Wilson's 2012 in context I was mocked. It wasn't that impressive. He not a talent that can overcome this line by just getting more work. In Mia he'd be doing what Lamar Miller is doing, visa versa. I triedIf anyone paid .25-.50c on the dollar for Wilson he will be the easiest flip of your life when he has a great game.

He's definitely a better talent than Miller. Miller possesses slightly better speed than Wilson but almost none of his balance and agility.

And nobody would overcome this line play... I'm not sure even AD could overcome the way the Giants offensive line has been playing as of late. Not to mention how inept the coaching has been in essentially holding up signs saying that they're running or passing.

He is Lamar Miller.AP would be highly respected with this line still.

So would Wilson if he got 20 carries instead of 7

 

[Loan Sharks]

WTF happened to the Giants?

general consensus in here is they have an elite talent in Wilson and are not using him enough

Definitely not the consensus, or even general consensus.

Only the consensus of delusional David Wilson owners.

He can't even get more than 3.5 YPC during garbage time when defenses are in the prevent. He can't break tackles, can't hold onto the football, and can't pass protect.

They're probably using him too much.

I would concur, it is definitely not a consensus. But for some reason the majority of people here thought Wilson was an "elite talent" despite reality.

No offense but this is a 79 page thread about a guy who couldn't beat out Andre Brown and is only starting due to injury.

Psssst. Wilson was the starter before Brown went down. Brown was going to be third down and goal line.

Also, I hardly think the book is written yet on David Wilson. This season got derailed for him because of his two fumbles in week one.

Not true, they were listed as co starters, and Wilson was returning kicks.

But if you want to split hairs, you got me, Wilson is a elite running back who can't get short yardage, is a liability on passing plays who was the starter because he had one percent more of a time share than the stud Andre Brown who's coach thought the best way to utilize him was on kick returns.

I am shocked he can't handle the full load.

 

[Khy]

WTF happened to the Giants?

general consensus in here is they have an elite talent in Wilson and are not using him enough

Definitely not the consensus, or even general consensus.

Only the consensus of delusional David Wilson owners.

He can't even get more than 3.5 YPC during garbage time when defenses are in the prevent. He can't break tackles, can't hold onto the football, and can't pass protect.

They're probably using him too much.

I would concur, it is definitely not a consensus. But for some reason the majority of people here thought Wilson was an "elite talent" despite reality.

No offense but this is a 79 page thread about a guy who couldn't beat out Andre Brown and is only starting due to injury.

Psssst. Wilson was the starter before Brown went down. Brown was going to be third down and goal line.

Also, I hardly think the book is written yet on David Wilson. This season got derailed for him because of his two fumbles in week one.

Not true, they were listed as co starters, and Wilson was returning kicks.

But if you want to split hairs, you got me, Wilson is a elite running back who can't get short yardage, is a liability on passing plays who was the starter because he had one percent more of a time share than the stud Andre Brown who's coach thought the best way to utilize him was on kick returns.

I am shocked he can't handle the full load.

Oh look, another person who has absolutely not idea what they're talking about. Umm, no? There were news reports about Wilson begging the coaches to be on Kick Return duty still and the coaching staff was telling him no. He also didn't field any KR's during the entire preseason.

 

[CariocaSean]

This is the most bizarre situation. Wilso n is an above average talent probably being misused but people still blindly defend him like this is AP in the making.

For dynasty I get it. Hang in there.

For redraft though, odds are you got this guy as your rb2 and he is not startable for 4 straight weeks. You really can't afford to hang in there. Lets say he is being misused and that the coaching staff is blatantly ruining his potential, what have they done or said that shows you they realize the error of their ways? Can you afford to wait to find out who is at fault?

That's why I got off the wagon. Whether its his fault or not is irrelevant. He's not producing and hoping for a turnaround is not going to win games.

Hopefully you hit on one of your later RBs who you can start until Wilson shows something.

What exactly are you suggesting? Wilson should be dropped? Traded? Dropping him should only be done in shallow leagues and you may be kicking yourself later (you may not). In my opinion he is a hold because you are not going to get much for him anyway - why sell for pennies on the dollar? Just hold your investment and hope it matures.

Wilson's career is just starting. He still has a lot of time to develop as a football player. His season is only 1/4 through. How many times do we need to see teams turn things around in the NFL until we start to get it?

Will he ever be a Jamaal Charles? Probably not. Jamaal Charles is an incredible football player. But that remains to be seen. Football is a team game and right now Wilson's team situation isn't going to be helping him excel. Maybe in the future things will look brighter.

 

[Loan Sharks]

WTF happened to the Giants?

general consensus in here is they have an elite talent in Wilson and are not using him enough

Definitely not the consensus, or even general consensus.

Only the consensus of delusional David Wilson owners.

He can't even get more than 3.5 YPC during garbage time when defenses are in the prevent. He can't break tackles, can't hold onto the football, and can't pass protect.

They're probably using him too much.

I would concur, it is definitely not a consensus. But for some reason the majority of people here thought Wilson was an "elite talent" despite reality.

No offense but this is a 79 page thread about a guy who couldn't beat out Andre Brown and is only starting due to injury.

Psssst. Wilson was the starter before Brown went down. Brown was going to be third down and goal line.

Also, I hardly think the book is written yet on David Wilson. This season got derailed for him because of his two fumbles in week one.

Not true, they were listed as co starters, and Wilson was returning kicks.

But if you want to split hairs, you got me, Wilson is a elite running back who can't get short yardage, is a liability on passing plays who was the starter because he had one percent more of a time share than the stud Andre Brown who's coach thought the best way to utilize him was on kick returns.

I am shocked he can't handle the full load.

Oh look, another person who has absolutely not idea what they're talking about. Umm, no? There were news reports about Wilson begging the coaches to be on Kick Return duty still and the coaching staff was telling him no. He also didn't field any KR's during the entire preseason.

You mean no reports like this one five days before Andre Browns injury where he is listed as the number one kick returner and Coughlin states that he will pick and choose when to utilize Wilson on kick returns and the special teams coach Quinn said ""That’s all up to the powers that be," Quinn said. "Everyone realizes he is a weapon. If the time and the place is right, then I think we’ll put him in after we consult with everyone."

Brown's injury changed the dynamic. Wilson was not intended to be the full time back this year but had to be pressed into service. That is why after Brown got hurt he was no longer in the special teams discussion.

It is outlandish to think that a team might use the leading kick returner from the past year, who is listed as their #1 kick returner, when the head and special teams coaches say they will use him on kick returns.

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/giants/post/_/id/27997/the-state-of-the-special-teams

People are shocked that he is failing and providing a litany of excuses. My explanation is he is not very good or has not acclimated to the pro game yet or he would have won the starting job outright and not been a part of the special teams strategy.

My theory certainly holds more water than "this guy is great and the coach is holding him back" nonsense.

 

[CariocaSean]

eminence totally owning this thread.

perhaps its time to reconsider if this guy is an "elite talent." im no scout but this guy has done nothing elite other than getting drafted in the first round. still, plenty of first round picks fail miserably at rb.

and regardless of his ability or potential, he is in an awful fantasy situation this year.

You and many others in this thread have tunnel vision. You only see things in terms of fantasy football production. He has actually shown an incredible flash several times. He is 21 years old in his 2nd season.

The jury is still out, people.

 

[msudaisy26]

eminence totally owning this thread.

perhaps its time to reconsider if this guy is an "elite talent." im no scout but this guy has done nothing elite other than getting drafted in the first round. still, plenty of first round picks fail miserably at rb.

and regardless of his ability or potential, he is in an awful fantasy situation this year.

You and many others in this thread have tunnel vision. You only see things in terms of fantasy football production. He has actually shown an incredible flash several times. He is 21 years old in his 2nd season.

The jury is still out, people.

If it doesn't help fantasy football, then it doesn't exist!

 

[Khy]

WTF happened to the Giants?

general consensus in here is they have an elite talent in Wilson and are not using him enough

Definitely not the consensus, or even general consensus.

Only the consensus of delusional David Wilson owners.

He can't even get more than 3.5 YPC during garbage time when defenses are in the prevent. He can't break tackles, can't hold onto the football, and can't pass protect.

They're probably using him too much.

I would concur, it is definitely not a consensus. But for some reason the majority of people here thought Wilson was an "elite talent" despite reality.

No offense but this is a 79 page thread about a guy who couldn't beat out Andre Brown and is only starting due to injury.

Psssst. Wilson was the starter before Brown went down. Brown was going to be third down and goal line.

Also, I hardly think the book is written yet on David Wilson. This season got derailed for him because of his two fumbles in week one.

Not true, they were listed as co starters, and Wilson was returning kicks.

But if you want to split hairs, you got me, Wilson is a elite running back who can't get short yardage, is a liability on passing plays who was the starter because he had one percent more of a time share than the stud Andre Brown who's coach thought the best way to utilize him was on kick returns.

I am shocked he can't handle the full load.

Oh look, another person who has absolutely not idea what they're talking about. Umm, no? There were news reports about Wilson begging the coaches to be on Kick Return duty still and the coaching staff was telling him no. He also didn't field any KR's during the entire preseason.

You mean no reports like this one five days before Andre Browns injury where he is listed as the number one kick returner and Coughlin states that he will pick and choose when to utilize Wilson on kick returns and the special teams coach Quinn said ""That’s all up to the powers that be," Quinn said. "Everyone realizes he is a weapon. If the time and the place is right, then I think we’ll put him in after we consult with everyone."

Brown's injury changed the dynamic. Wilson was not intended to be the full time back this year but had to be pressed into service. That is why after Brown got hurt he was no longer in the special teams discussion.

It is outlandish to think that a team might use the leading kick returner from the past year, who is listed as their #1 kick returner, when the head and special teams coaches say they will use him on kick returns.

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/giants/post/_/id/27997/the-state-of-the-special-teams

People are shocked that he is failing and providing a litany of excuses. My explanation is he is not very good or has not acclimated to the pro game yet or he would have won the starting job outright and not been a part of the special teams strategy.

My theory certainly holds more water than "this guy is great and the coach is holding him back" nonsense.

Lololol... that 'report' isn't saying that Wilson would be the Kick Returner. I'm not even sure how you could even read that article and draw that conclusion. What you see is the Special Teams Coord. saying that in certain situations he's hoping the coaches (Coughlin and Gilbride) will allow him to put Wilson back there for the home run threat possibility. Say he may have seen like 5-10 KR attempts on the season, think how like Wes Welker was used on PR's in NE. They'd toss him in there randomly throughout games when they felt they needed a bigger threat back there.

 

[Khy]

eminence totally owning this thread.

perhaps its time to reconsider if this guy is an "elite talent." im no scout but this guy has done nothing elite other than getting drafted in the first round. still, plenty of first round picks fail miserably at rb.

and regardless of his ability or potential, he is in an awful fantasy situation this year.

You and many others in this thread have tunnel vision. You only see things in terms of fantasy football production. He has actually shown an incredible flash several times. He is 21 years old in his 2nd season.

The jury is still out, people.

If it doesn't help fantasy football, then it doesn't exist!

Look, every stud RB in history has been a stud after his first carry.

Jamaal Charles first 20 Games: 82 carries 434 yards 5.29ypc 0 TDs

CJ Spiller's first 20 games: 87 carries 377 yards 4.33ypc 1 TD

David Wilson's first 20 game: 109 carries, 488 yards, 4.47ypc 4 TDs

OH but wait, I forgot... we can't compare Wilson to Charles or Spiller because we already consider them studs. So clearly they were never as bad as David Wilson and would have always been considered to have superior talent to him. Hindsight is a funny thing to people that like to ignore evidence.

 

[CariocaSean]

WTF happened to the Giants?

general consensus in here is they have an elite talent in Wilson and are not using him enough

Definitely not the consensus, or even general consensus.

Only the consensus of delusional David Wilson owners.

He can't even get more than 3.5 YPC during garbage time when defenses are in the prevent. He can't break tackles, can't hold onto the football, and can't pass protect.

They're probably using him too much.

I would concur, it is definitely not a consensus. But for some reason the majority of people here thought Wilson was an "elite talent" despite reality.

No offense but this is a 79 page thread about a guy who couldn't beat out Andre Brown and is only starting due to injury.

Psssst. Wilson was the starter before Brown went down. Brown was going to be third down and goal line.

Also, I hardly think the book is written yet on David Wilson. This season got derailed for him because of his two fumbles in week one.

Not true, they were listed as co starters, and Wilson was returning kicks.

But if you want to split hairs, you got me, Wilson is a elite running back who can't get short yardage, is a liability on passing plays who was the starter because he had one percent more of a time share than the stud Andre Brown who's coach thought the best way to utilize him was on kick returns.

I am shocked he can't handle the full load.

Oh look, another person who has absolutely not idea what they're talking about. Umm, no? There were news reports about Wilson begging the coaches to be on Kick Return duty still and the coaching staff was telling him no. He also didn't field any KR's during the entire preseason.

You mean no reports like this one five days before Andre Browns injury where he is listed as the number one kick returner and Coughlin states that he will pick and choose when to utilize Wilson on kick returns and the special teams coach Quinn said ""That’s all up to the powers that be," Quinn said. "Everyone realizes he is a weapon. If the time and the place is right, then I think we’ll put him in after we consult with everyone."

Brown's injury changed the dynamic. Wilson was not intended to be the full time back this year but had to be pressed into service. That is why after Brown got hurt he was no longer in the special teams discussion.

It is outlandish to think that a team might use the leading kick returner from the past year, who is listed as their #1 kick returner, when the head and special teams coaches say they will use him on kick returns.

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/giants/post/_/id/27997/the-state-of-the-special-teams

People are shocked that he is failing and providing a litany of excuses. My explanation is he is not very good or has not acclimated to the pro game yet or he would have won the starting job outright and not been a part of the special teams strategy.

My theory certainly holds more water than "this guy is great and the coach is holding him back" nonsense.

It's just willful ignorance to think that the team situation isn't preventing him from having greater success. Have you watched any of his games? There are defenders in the backfield on every running play. The offensive line has been terrible. No NFL running back would be succeeding behind that run blocking.

It isn't helping that the coaches are telegraphing their moves. The fact is Kevin Gilbride has not come up with one creative way to give Wilson a chance to make a play in space.

 

[Loan Sharks]

WTF happened to the Giants?

general consensus in here is they have an elite talent in Wilson and are not using him enough

Definitely not the consensus, or even general consensus.

Only the consensus of delusional David Wilson owners.

He can't even get more than 3.5 YPC during garbage time when defenses are in the prevent. He can't break tackles, can't hold onto the football, and can't pass protect.

They're probably using him too much.

I would concur, it is definitely not a consensus. But for some reason the majority of people here thought Wilson was an "elite talent" despite reality.

No offense but this is a 79 page thread about a guy who couldn't beat out Andre Brown and is only starting due to injury.

Psssst. Wilson was the starter before Brown went down. Brown was going to be third down and goal line.

Also, I hardly think the book is written yet on David Wilson. This season got derailed for him because of his two fumbles in week one.

Not true, they were listed as co starters, and Wilson was returning kicks.

But if you want to split hairs, you got me, Wilson is a elite running back who can't get short yardage, is a liability on passing plays who was the starter because he had one percent more of a time share than the stud Andre Brown who's coach thought the best way to utilize him was on kick returns.

I am shocked he can't handle the full load.

Oh look, another person who has absolutely not idea what they're talking about. Umm, no? There were news reports about Wilson begging the coaches to be on Kick Return duty still and the coaching staff was telling him no. He also didn't field any KR's during the entire preseason.

You mean no reports like this one five days before Andre Browns injury where he is listed as the number one kick returner and Coughlin states that he will pick and choose when to utilize Wilson on kick returns and the special teams coach Quinn said ""That’s all up to the powers that be," Quinn said. "Everyone realizes he is a weapon. If the time and the place is right, then I think we’ll put him in after we consult with everyone."

Brown's injury changed the dynamic. Wilson was not intended to be the full time back this year but had to be pressed into service. That is why after Brown got hurt he was no longer in the special teams discussion.

It is outlandish to think that a team might use the leading kick returner from the past year, who is listed as their #1 kick returner, when the head and special teams coaches say they will use him on kick returns.

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/giants/post/_/id/27997/the-state-of-the-special-teams

People are shocked that he is failing and providing a litany of excuses. My explanation is he is not very good or has not acclimated to the pro game yet or he would have won the starting job outright and not been a part of the special teams strategy.

My theory certainly holds more water than "this guy is great and the coach is holding him back" nonsense.

It's just willful ignorance to think that the team situation isn't preventing him from having greater success. Have you watched any of his games? There are defenders in the backfield on every running play. The offensive line has been terrible. No NFL running back would be succeeding behind that run blocking.

It isn't helping that the coaches are telegraphing their moves. The fact is Kevin Gilbride has not come up with one creative way to give Wilson a chance to make a play in space.

I hear ya, there are a lot of reasons, bad coaching, bad line, Eli's completion percentage. But I guess bad Wilson is just something people can't stomach. Maybe we should have a guest speaker come in from the Johnathan Stewart thread so you can see where "shown flashes at times" gets you.

As far as a bad offensive line. As a Cardinals fan and having witnessed a total offensive line meltdown last year, Wilson has less YPC that William Powell and is barely edging out Larod Stevens Howling.

All the evidence to me says Wilson was tragically over rated, time will tell.

 

[Khy]

WTF happened to the Giants?

general consensus in here is they have an elite talent in Wilson and are not using him enough

Definitely not the consensus, or even general consensus.

Only the consensus of delusional David Wilson owners.

He can't even get more than 3.5 YPC during garbage time when defenses are in the prevent. He can't break tackles, can't hold onto the football, and can't pass protect.

They're probably using him too much.

I would concur, it is definitely not a consensus. But for some reason the majority of people here thought Wilson was an "elite talent" despite reality.

No offense but this is a 79 page thread about a guy who couldn't beat out Andre Brown and is only starting due to injury.

Psssst. Wilson was the starter before Brown went down. Brown was going to be third down and goal line.

Also, I hardly think the book is written yet on David Wilson. This season got derailed for him because of his two fumbles in week one.

Not true, they were listed as co starters, and Wilson was returning kicks.

But if you want to split hairs, you got me, Wilson is a elite running back who can't get short yardage, is a liability on passing plays who was the starter because he had one percent more of a time share than the stud Andre Brown who's coach thought the best way to utilize him was on kick returns.

I am shocked he can't handle the full load.

Oh look, another person who has absolutely not idea what they're talking about. Umm, no? There were news reports about Wilson begging the coaches to be on Kick Return duty still and the coaching staff was telling him no. He also didn't field any KR's during the entire preseason.

You mean no reports like this one five days before Andre Browns injury where he is listed as the number one kick returner and Coughlin states that he will pick and choose when to utilize Wilson on kick returns and the special teams coach Quinn said ""That’s all up to the powers that be," Quinn said. "Everyone realizes he is a weapon. If the time and the place is right, then I think we’ll put him in after we consult with everyone."

Brown's injury changed the dynamic. Wilson was not intended to be the full time back this year but had to be pressed into service. That is why after Brown got hurt he was no longer in the special teams discussion.

It is outlandish to think that a team might use the leading kick returner from the past year, who is listed as their #1 kick returner, when the head and special teams coaches say they will use him on kick returns.

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/giants/post/_/id/27997/the-state-of-the-special-teams

People are shocked that he is failing and providing a litany of excuses. My explanation is he is not very good or has not acclimated to the pro game yet or he would have won the starting job outright and not been a part of the special teams strategy.

My theory certainly holds more water than "this guy is great and the coach is holding him back" nonsense.

It's just willful ignorance to think that the team situation isn't preventing him from having greater success. Have you watched any of his games? There are defenders in the backfield on every running play. The offensive line has been terrible. No NFL running back would be succeeding behind that run blocking.

It isn't helping that the coaches are telegraphing their moves. The fact is Kevin Gilbride has not come up with one creative way to give Wilson a chance to make a play in space.

I hear ya, there are a lot of reasons, bad coaching, bad line, Eli's completion percentage. But I guess bad Wilson is just something people can't stomach. Maybe we should have a guest speaker come in from the Johnathan Stewart thread so you can see where "shown flashes at times" gets you.

As far as a bad offensive line. As a Cardinals fan and having witnessed a total offensive line meltdown last year, Wilson has less YPC that William Powell and is barely edging out Larod Stevens Howling.

All the evidence to me says Wilson was tragically over rated, time will tell.

I'll repeat what I had posted earlier...

Wilson's YPC has increased with his touches this season. With 7 touches he was averaging around 2.4ypc. Since then he's gone 11 touches for 3.5ypc and 15 touches for 5.3. All of this is coming with an offense that's scored only 7 points in the last two weeks. I'd like to see him get another 15-20 carries this coming week in a week where they should be able to move the ball better as they won't be playing a juggernaut defense.

I also think we're severely under-estimating this schedule coming up for the Giants...

Eagles

Bears

Vikings

Eagles

**BYE**

Raiders

Packers

Cowboys

Redskins

Chargers

Seahawks

Lions

Besides the Cowboys and Seahawks, those are some really juicy matchups coming down the pipe.

 

[cvnpoka]

eminence totally owning this thread.

perhaps its time to reconsider if this guy is an "elite talent." im no scout but this guy has done nothing elite other than getting drafted in the first round. still, plenty of first round picks fail miserably at rb.

and regardless of his ability or potential, he is in an awful fantasy situation this year.

You and many others in this thread have tunnel vision. You only see things in terms of fantasy football production. He has actually shown an incredible flash several times. He is 21 years old in his 2nd season.

The jury is still out, people.

If it doesn't help fantasy football, then it doesn't exist!

running backs are of very little importance in real football. if we were talking real football, any david wilson talk would be a mere after thought.

 

[Norcalhoya]

Total gut call based on the matchup, but I think Wilson breaks out big this week vs the Eagles. Call it cute, but I'll be starting him over Murray or J Gordon.

 

[Eminence]

DW is averaging 2 yards a carry in the first half

less than 2 ypc when ahead or tied

If the giant fall behind by 5 TDs in the first qtr, then he may become startable

And Jamaal Charles averaged 1.75ypc in the first half this week? Does he suck also? Should bench Charles clearly. Cause there are no 2nd halfs in football. The point some of us are trying to make is that when you feed Wilson his YPC climbs steadily and the numbers support that. You're just picking out random stats that have no bearing on a game and using them to prove your point.

Comparing David Wilson to Jamaal Charles is like comparing apples to oranges.

Hey... if we can criticize Wilson for having under 2ypc in the first half and make it seem like that's in any way meaningful then we can do the same for Charles.

Variables.

Jamaal Charles has ran for over 1,100 yards every season he has been healthy. Jamaal Charles has a career YPC of 5.6. Jamaal Charles is a legit pass-catching threat, catching 23 passes in 4 games.

Charles is a proven NFL commodity.

Using your examples if proof for talent. Charles is 199 lbs so clearly he's a joke. Wilson can't be a good RB or pass block at 209lbs then Charles certainly can't at 199. Can we go back to you boy cotting this thread please? Common sense was at an all time high in the two pages you were absent for.

Except the fact that they're, two different players? David Wilson can't hold Jamaal Charles' jock, bro. Don't ever compare those two players ever again.

I will not mention them together as soon as you stop saying RB's less than 220 can't play in the NFL.

Too bad I never said that.

 

[Eminence]

DW is averaging 2 yards a carry in the first half

less than 2 ypc when ahead or tied

If the giant fall behind by 5 TDs in the first qtr, then he may become startable

And Jamaal Charles averaged 1.75ypc in the first half this week? Does he suck also? Should bench Charles clearly. Cause there are no 2nd halfs in football. The point some of us are trying to make is that when you feed Wilson his YPC climbs steadily and the numbers support that. You're just picking out random stats that have no bearing on a game and using them to prove your point.

Comparing David Wilson to Jamaal Charles is like comparing apples to oranges.

This saying is dumb. I can compare apples to oranges. Anyone can. There's nothing wrong with comparing apples and oranges.

Fine then,

Your apples (Jamaal Charles) have a career YPC of 5.6 and 4,825 Career Rushing Yards (19 Touchdowns).

Your oranges (David Wilson) have a career YPC of 4.5 and 488 Career Rushing Yards (4 Touchdowns).

Your apples (Jamaal Charles) have caught 175 Passes for 1,495 Yards (9 Touchdowns).

Your oranges (David Wilson) have caught 6 Passes for 42 Yards (1 Touchdown).

Your apples (Jamaal Charles) rookie season - *age 22, Yds Rush 357, Rush TDs 0 Fumbles 2

Your oranges (David Wilson) rookie season - *age 21, Yds Rush 358, Rush TDs 4 Fumbles 1

Your apples (Jamaal Charles) 2nd season 1st 4 games - *age 23, Yds Rush 77, Rush TDs 0 Fumbles 1

Your oranges (David Wilson) 2nd season 1st 4 games - *age 22, Yds Rush 130, Rush TDs 0 Fumbles 2

*apples 1 1/2 years older than oranges

Poor Eminence. Where I come from, that's called a good old fashion ### whoopin'

But he said never to mention the two together, so this is sort of argument is not allowed...

Oh no! I'm convinced! It's not like Jamaal Charles had to fluke his was into a starting role because of injury. Two players with similar stats at the same point in their career! Mark it down folks, just like Jamaal Charles did in his second year David Wilson is a SHOO IN to go off for 1,400 yards this season.

David Wilson was given the chance to take the starting gig and failed.

At this point in Jamaal Charles' career, he wasn't even starter.

So sure, they had similar stats but for COMPLETELY DIFFERENT REASONS. Should we bump this post at the end of the season when David Wilson doesn't rush for 1,100 yards and 7 Touchdowns by the end of the season?

Will it stil be an ### whooping, then?

 

[Khy]

DW is averaging 2 yards a carry in the first half

less than 2 ypc when ahead or tied

If the giant fall behind by 5 TDs in the first qtr, then he may become startable

And Jamaal Charles averaged 1.75ypc in the first half this week? Does he suck also? Should bench Charles clearly. Cause there are no 2nd halfs in football. The point some of us are trying to make is that when you feed Wilson his YPC climbs steadily and the numbers support that. You're just picking out random stats that have no bearing on a game and using them to prove your point.

Comparing David Wilson to Jamaal Charles is like comparing apples to oranges.

This saying is dumb. I can compare apples to oranges. Anyone can. There's nothing wrong with comparing apples and oranges.

Fine then,

Your apples (Jamaal Charles) have a career YPC of 5.6 and 4,825 Career Rushing Yards (19 Touchdowns).

Your oranges (David Wilson) have a career YPC of 4.5 and 488 Career Rushing Yards (4 Touchdowns).

Your apples (Jamaal Charles) have caught 175 Passes for 1,495 Yards (9 Touchdowns).

Your oranges (David Wilson) have caught 6 Passes for 42 Yards (1 Touchdown).

Your apples (Jamaal Charles) rookie season - *age 22, Yds Rush 357, Rush TDs 0 Fumbles 2

Your oranges (David Wilson) rookie season - *age 21, Yds Rush 358, Rush TDs 4 Fumbles 1

Your apples (Jamaal Charles) 2nd season 1st 4 games - *age 23, Yds Rush 77, Rush TDs 0 Fumbles 1

Your oranges (David Wilson) 2nd season 1st 4 games - *age 22, Yds Rush 130, Rush TDs 0 Fumbles 2

*apples 1 1/2 years older than oranges

Poor Eminence. Where I come from, that's called a good old fashion ### whoopin'

But he said never to mention the two together, so this is sort of argument is not allowed...

Oh no! I'm convinced! It's not like Jamaal Charles had to fluke his was into a starting role because of injury. Two players with similar stats at the same point in their career! Mark it down folks, just like Jamaal Charles did in his second year David Wilson is a SHOO IN to go off for 1,400 yards this season.

David Wilson was given the chance to take the starting gig and failed.

At this point in Jamaal Charles' career, he wasn't even starter.

So sure, they had similar stats but for COMPLETELY DIFFERENT REASONS. Should we bump this post at the end of the season when David Wilson doesn't rush for 1,100 yards and 7 Touchdowns by the end of the season?

Will it stil be an ### whooping, then?

The reasons don't really matter all that much do they? The fact is in their first NFL season with BOTH of them behind well known veterans Wilson matched Charles yardage totals and added 4 TDs on top of that while also leading the NFL in kick return yardage and average. And Jamaal Charles didn't FLUKE his way into anything... in fact his situation was very similar to Wilson's except for Charles it happened midway through the 2009 season as opposed to the offseason. The Chiefs released Larry Johnson and put their trust in Charles. Similar to the situation of the Giants released Bradshaw and putting their trust in Wilson.

Wilson hasn't failed with the starting gig, you can't even come close to making that assumption yet. We're 4 games through him being named the starter and he has the lowest number of carries among starting running backs in the NFL (save injury). He's on a 0-4 New York team that can't seem to get anything right... this is a team that just last season ranked 6th in Points Scored and ranked in the top half of the NFL in every offensive statistic. As of this moment they rank 30th in points scored, 30th in rushing yards, Last in rushing attempts per game at 17.5 and 12th in passing yards.

The point being... the Giants were given a chance to start the season 3-1 and have failed. Wilson has not been given a chance to be the starting running back to this point however... at least not that we've seen.

David Wilson ranked 37th among RBs with 9.5 attempts per game, that's a pretty far cry from "given a shot at the starting job and failed". Terrelle Pryor almost has more rushing attempts than him and Pryor missed an entire week of play. When that number gets to 15+ and the Giants stop getting blown out by 30 points every week? Then we can start talking about being given the shot and failing or passing. Until that time though, he's been given no shot and you'd be fooling yourself to think otherwise.

 

[TartanLion]

Been dropped to my WW. It's tempting but I look at all the negativity around the team and the amount of chances ( or lack rather ) he's getting and it becomes a quandary as to whether he's worth it. If probably drop him for Bilal Powell who is probably less of a talent but is being a real workhorse right now.

 

[TheFanatic]

WTF happened to the Giants?

general consensus in here is they have an elite talent in Wilson and are not using him enough

Definitely not the consensus, or even general consensus.

Only the consensus of delusional David Wilson owners.

He can't even get more than 3.5 YPC during garbage time when defenses are in the prevent. He can't break tackles, can't hold onto the football, and can't pass protect.

They're probably using him too much.

I would concur, it is definitely not a consensus. But for some reason the majority of people here thought Wilson was an "elite talent" despite reality.

No offense but this is a 79 page thread about a guy who couldn't beat out Andre Brown and is only starting due to injury.

Psssst. Wilson was the starter before Brown went down. Brown was going to be third down and goal line.

Also, I hardly think the book is written yet on David Wilson. This season got derailed for him because of his two fumbles in week one.

Not true, they were listed as co starters, and Wilson was returning kicks.

But if you want to split hairs, you got me, Wilson is a elite running back who can't get short yardage, is a liability on passing plays who was the starter because he had one percent more of a time share than the stud Andre Brown who's coach thought the best way to utilize him was on kick returns.

I am shocked he can't handle the full load.

Can we address this point specifically. There was talk that he was bad in pass pro his rookie season. I can't recall him getting Eli sacked this year. Can some of you stat gurus take a look at this and let us know where he stands on pass protection.

I know the guy isn't getting enough carries, has a terrible O-Line, has a QB that is completing less and less balls every week, but I don't know if DW is bad at pass protection.

 

[T with T]

hopefully he gets 18 carries 3 catches... that would be enough to make him fantasy relevant maybe a gl look from inside the 7. We need a long run 70 plus this week and maybe give him some confidence and the coaching staff to run him all day instead of Jacobs or Scott.

 

[Khy]

WTF happened to the Giants?

general consensus in here is they have an elite talent in Wilson and are not using him enough

Definitely not the consensus, or even general consensus.

Only the consensus of delusional David Wilson owners.

He can't even get more than 3.5 YPC during garbage time when defenses are in the prevent. He can't break tackles, can't hold onto the football, and can't pass protect.

They're probably using him too much.

I would concur, it is definitely not a consensus. But for some reason the majority of people here thought Wilson was an "elite talent" despite reality.

No offense but this is a 79 page thread about a guy who couldn't beat out Andre Brown and is only starting due to injury.

Psssst. Wilson was the starter before Brown went down. Brown was going to be third down and goal line.

Also, I hardly think the book is written yet on David Wilson. This season got derailed for him because of his two fumbles in week one.

Not true, they were listed as co starters, and Wilson was returning kicks.

But if you want to split hairs, you got me, Wilson is a elite running back who can't get short yardage, is a liability on passing plays who was the starter because he had one percent more of a time share than the stud Andre Brown who's coach thought the best way to utilize him was on kick returns.

I am shocked he can't handle the full load.

Can we address this point specifically. There was talk that he was bad in pass pro his rookie season. I can't recall him getting Eli sacked this year. Can some of you stat gurus take a look at this and let us know where he stands on pass protection.

I know the guy isn't getting enough carries, has a terrible O-Line, has a QB that is completing less and less balls every week, but I don't know if DW is bad at pass protection.

I've posted these stats you're requesting several times and people keep ignoring them so... I'll do it again.

Using ProFootballFocus Pass Blocking Efficiency Ratings and Stats... they are typically regarded as highly reputable for these kinds of things. Here's what we find

Da'rel Scott: He currently ranked 23rd overall among active RBs (with over 25% pass blocking snaps). On 50 Pass Blocking snaps he has allowed: 0 Sacks, 2 Hits, 1 Hurry for a total of 3 Pressures allowed and a Pass Blocking Efficiency Score of 95.5 (the highest possible is 100).

David Wilson: He is currently ranked 24th overall among active RBs (with over 25% pass blocking snaps). On 21 Pass Blocking snaps he has allowed: 1 Sack, 0 Hits and 0 Hurries for a total of 1 Pressure allowed and has a Pass Blocking Efficiency Score of 95.2 (the highest possible is 100).

Sooooooooooooooooooo... all in all they're more or less both completely, 100% even. Their scores are almost identical. This is the issue I; and many analysts have with the current situation going on in New York. As, the Giants aren't giving a reason as to this bizarre usage of their running backs. Coughlin just keeps ignoring the issue. And if you saw the sack that Wilson 'allowed' one could argue he's actually been better than Scott in pass protection this season. As the 'allowed' sack by Wilson came when two Dallas defenders made their way into the backfield as Wilson was coming out of a play action fake and he simply was unable to adjust in time to square up on the defender. Irregardless of the fact that there were two defenders that broke through the line and not one, so even if he was able to square up his guy he still would have 'allowed' a sack.

 

[iamkoza]

hopefully he gets 18 carries 3 catches... that would be enough to make him fantasy relevant maybe a gl look from inside the 7. We need a long run 70 plus this week and maybe give him some confidence and the coaching staff to run him all day instead of Jacobs or Scott.

isnt jacobs pretty much the goaline back exclusively.... tough to know for sure since they dont get near the goaline too often last 2 weeks

wilson finally goes back in to my lineup this week, if he can't produce 10+ fantasy points against the eagles... then back to my bench for the rest of the season

 

[lod01]

Because everyone knows when they are running and when they are passing. I am pretty sure the DC on the opposing teams know...


Wilson in - play the run

Scott in - play the pass

You will be right very often

Same with Carolina when Stewart was playing. DeAngelo in, it's a run, Stewart in, it's a pass. That's why they have sucked so bad the last few years.

 

[qimqam]

WTF happened to the Giants?

general consensus in here is they have an elite talent in Wilson and are not using him enough

Definitely not the consensus, or even general consensus.

Only the consensus of delusional David Wilson owners.

He can't even get more than 3.5 YPC during garbage time when defenses are in the prevent. He can't break tackles, can't hold onto the football, and can't pass protect.

They're probably using him too much.

I would concur, it is definitely not a consensus. But for some reason the majority of people here thought Wilson was an "elite talent" despite reality.

No offense but this is a 79 page thread about a guy who couldn't beat out Andre Brown and is only starting due to injury.

Psssst. Wilson was the starter before Brown went down. Brown was going to be third down and goal line.

Also, I hardly think the book is written yet on David Wilson. This season got derailed for him because of his two fumbles in week one.

Not true, they were listed as co starters, and Wilson was returning kicks.

But if you want to split hairs, you got me, Wilson is a elite running back who can't get short yardage, is a liability on passing plays who was the starter because he had one percent more of a time share than the stud Andre Brown who's coach thought the best way to utilize him was on kick returns.

I am shocked he can't handle the full load.

Can we address this point specifically. There was talk that he was bad in pass pro his rookie season. I can't recall him getting Eli sacked this year. Can some of you stat gurus take a look at this and let us know where he stands on pass protection.

I know the guy isn't getting enough carries, has a terrible O-Line, has a QB that is completing less and less balls every week, but I don't know if DW is bad at pass protection.

I've posted these stats you're requesting several times and people keep ignoring them so... I'll do it again.

Using ProFootballFocus Pass Blocking Efficiency Ratings and Stats... they are typically regarded as highly reputable for these kinds of things. Here's what we find

Da'rel Scott: He currently ranked 23rd overall among active RBs (with over 25% pass blocking snaps). On 50 Pass Blocking snaps he has allowed: 0 Sacks, 2 Hits, 1 Hurry for a total of 3 Pressures allowed and a Pass Blocking Efficiency Score of 95.5 (the highest possible is 100).

David Wilson: He is currently ranked 24th overall among active RBs (with over 25% pass blocking snaps). On 21 Pass Blocking snaps he has allowed: 1 Sack, 0 Hits and 0 Hurries for a total of 1 Pressure allowed and has a Pass Blocking Efficiency Score of 95.2 (the highest possible is 100).

Sooooooooooooooooooo... all in all they're more or less both completely, 100% even. Their scores are almost identical. This is the issue I; and many analysts have with the current situation going on in New York. As, the Giants aren't giving a reason as to this bizarre usage of their running backs. Coughlin just keeps ignoring the issue. And if you saw the sack that Wilson 'allowed' one could argue he's actually been better than Scott in pass protection this season. As the 'allowed' sack by Wilson came when two Dallas defenders made their way into the backfield as Wilson was coming out of a play action fake and he simply was unable to adjust in time to square up on the defender. Irregardless of the fact that there were two defenders that broke through the line and not one, so even if he was able to square up his guy he still would have 'allowed' a sack.

I don't know how accurate this report is ... Scott whiffed big time on a block against Carolina or Denver and Eli got mauled.

 

[Khy]

hopefully he gets 18 carries 3 catches... that would be enough to make him fantasy relevant maybe a gl look from inside the 7. We need a long run 70 plus this week and maybe give him some confidence and the coaching staff to run him all day instead of Jacobs or Scott.

isnt jacobs pretty much the goaline back exclusively.... tough to know for sure since they dont get near the goaline too often last 2 weeks

wilson finally goes back in to my lineup this week, if he can't produce 10+ fantasy points against the eagles... then back to my bench for the rest of the season

Not really, I believe Coughlin made a comment that they'd 'like' to use Jacobs in a short yardage role. But he's fooling himself, Jacobs was his 'short yardage' back for years and was never effective at the job. For reference:

Jacobs rushes on the season:

1. 2nd and 5 from the Denver 24
2. 2nd and 10 from the Giants 11
3. 1st and 10 from the Giants 45
4. 1st and 10 from the Denver 43
5. 1st and Goal from the Denver 4
6. 1st and Goal from the Denver 1
7. 2nd and 5 from the Giants 39
8. 2nd and 10 from the Giants 20
9. 1st and 10 from the Giants 26

Jacobs has 1 short yardage carry to his name right now. I personally consider 'short yardage' anything in a down and 2 or less to go scenario. The 1st and Goal from the 4 isn't really a goal line carry as that's never a 'sure thing' type of carry like a 1 or 2 yard carry is meant to be.

Excluding the Dallas game because Jacobs wasn't there Wilson has 2 short yardage carries and Scott has 0.

So the honest answer is that we don't have enough data points. The Giants have only run the ball on 3 short yardage plays so far this season. Which goes to show more just how inept the offense has been the past three weeks than anything.

 

[Concept Coop]

I know the guy isn't getting enough carries, has a terrible O-Line, has a QB that is completing less and less balls every week, but I don't know if DW is bad at pass protection.

He is. I don't know if Scott is any better, but Wilson is poor in pass protection. And regardless of what anyone says, or what stats they use to suggest otherwise, the only people whose opinions matter don't trust Wilson to keep the QB safe, and have said so. Until that changes, it is going to hinder his production.

 

[Khy]

I know the guy isn't getting enough carries, has a terrible O-Line, has a QB that is completing less and less balls every week, but I don't know if DW is bad at pass protection.

He is. I don't know if Scott is any better, but Wilson is poor in pass protection. And regardless of what anyone says, or what stats they use to suggest otherwise, the only people whose opinions matter don't trust Wilson to keep the QB safe, and have said so. Until that changes, it is going to hinder his production.

Just to this point.. PFF has him ranked higher than: Arian Foster, LeSean McCoy, Jamaal Charles, Lamar Miller, Doug Martin, Ray Rice and Trent Richardson in pass protection situations. Also the coaches haven't made any mention to his protection woes since after Week 1. Actually quite the opposite, Coughlin complimented him on a few blocks that he had to the press.

 

[karmarooster]

I don't understand all this bickering. Seems like you guys enjoy it, though. Wilson is clearly talented and he's clearly in a rut (along with the rest of the Giants, sans-Cruz). I don't know what more needs to be said.

If you could step back and get over your over analysis.... what do people think of his prospects this week? I'm thinking at home, against a weak Eagles defense, the passing game opens up some red zone opportunities for him. If you've got him, are you stepping back from the ledge and starting him this week?

 

[steveski]

I know the guy isn't getting enough carries, has a terrible O-Line, has a QB that is completing less and less balls every week, but I don't know if DW is bad at pass protection.

He is. I don't know if Scott is any better, but Wilson is poor in pass protection. And regardless of what anyone says, or what stats they use to suggest otherwise, the only people whose opinions matter don't trust Wilson to keep the QB safe, and have said so. Until that changes, it is going to hinder his production.

They should bench the entire O-line then.

 

[Concept Coop]

Just to this point.. PFF has him ranked higher than: Arian Foster, LeSean McCoy, Jamaal Charles, Lamar Miller, Doug Martin, Ray Rice and Trent Richardson in pass protection situations. Also the coaches haven't made any mention to his protection woes since after Week 1. Actually quite the opposite, Coughlin complimented him on a few blocks that he had to the press.

PFF's stat is flawed. If the Giants don't put Wilson in the position to allow sacks - he's not going to. And Coughlin has said some nice things. He's also said some negative things, and is using another RB in obvious passing situations.

There's no conspiracy, here.

 

[steveski]

I don't understand all this bickering. Seems like you guys enjoy it, though. Wilson is clearly talented and he's clearly in a rut (along with the rest of the Giants, sans-Cruz). I don't know what more needs to be said.

If you could step back and get over your over analysis.... what do people think of his prospects this week? I'm thinking at home, against a weak Eagles defense, the passing game opens up some red zone opportunities for him. If you've got him, are you stepping back from the ledge and starting him this week?

I just traded for him a little over a week ago and I'm starting him for the first time this week. It's either him or Alshon, Hopkins or Blackmon. No team has had trouble moving the ball against the Eagles. The Giants looked much better last week until the special teams collapse and the entire team collapsed following that. I thought the o-line looked better, but still bad. If you have good flex options like Gio or better then I'd stick to the wait and see mentality with Wilson, but if you're looking at guys that you think will get you 10 points or less, I'd go with Wilson. Unless something unforeseen happens, I'd be surprised if Wilson doesn't put up his first respectable week.

 

[QuizGuy66]

This is the 12th most responded to thread in all of the Shark Pool and most of the others ahead of it are contest threads from previous years.

I just hope the guy can put up number for one week while ADP is on bye

-QG

 

[Concept Coop]

They should bench the entire O-line then.

They should bench the entire unit, save Cruz and Randle.

 

[TheFanatic]

I know the guy isn't getting enough carries, has a terrible O-Line, has a QB that is completing less and less balls every week, but I don't know if DW is bad at pass protection.

He is. I don't know if Scott is any better, but Wilson is poor in pass protection. And regardless of what anyone says, or what stats they use to suggest otherwise, the only people whose opinions matter don't trust Wilson to keep the QB safe, and have said so. Until that changes, it is going to hinder his production.

See, there were comments about his Pass Pro as a rookie, but I can't remember a single quote from the coach where they commented good or bad on DW's pass blocking. Can you show me an example of this? You imply that no matter what stats we use, as there seem to be strong stats that say he is not a bad pass blocker, that the coaching staff does not trust him in pass pro. Can you show me a quote?

I seem to recall that someone cited that 44% of DW carries were run plays. Since he had 50% more carries than Scott last week, then wouldn't that put him in on more passing plays that Scott?

 

[Coeur de Lion]

There's no conspiracy, here.

/threadOf course it won't, but it should. Wilson's not ready yet. And even if he were, it probably doesn't matter d/t the state of the team and the o-line. It doesn't mean he sucks, it doesn't mean he's garbage in dynasty, it just means he's not ready right now. If people want to continue to call him a redraft "must start" or a "RB2 with upside," well, have fun with that. I'm sure you'll be right the one or two weeks this year he happens to break a long TD on one of his 10 carries and can come back in here and crow at Eminence. I'm sure it'll be worth the 2-11 season you'll be putting up in the meantime.

 

[Loan Sharks]

WTF happened to the Giants?

general consensus in here is they have an elite talent in Wilson and are not using him enough

Definitely not the consensus, or even general consensus.

Only the consensus of delusional David Wilson owners.

He can't even get more than 3.5 YPC during garbage time when defenses are in the prevent. He can't break tackles, can't hold onto the football, and can't pass protect.

They're probably using him too much.

I would concur, it is definitely not a consensus. But for some reason the majority of people here thought Wilson was an "elite talent" despite reality.

No offense but this is a 79 page thread about a guy who couldn't beat out Andre Brown and is only starting due to injury.

Psssst. Wilson was the starter before Brown went down. Brown was going to be third down and goal line.

Also, I hardly think the book is written yet on David Wilson. This season got derailed for him because of his two fumbles in week one.

Not true, they were listed as co starters, and Wilson was returning kicks.

But if you want to split hairs, you got me, Wilson is a elite running back who can't get short yardage, is a liability on passing plays who was the starter because he had one percent more of a time share than the stud Andre Brown who's coach thought the best way to utilize him was on kick returns.

I am shocked he can't handle the full load.

Can we address this point specifically. There was talk that he was bad in pass pro his rookie season. I can't recall him getting Eli sacked this year. Can some of you stat gurus take a look at this and let us know where he stands on pass protection.

I know the guy isn't getting enough carries, has a terrible O-Line, has a QB that is completing less and less balls every week, but I don't know if DW is bad at pass protection.

I've posted these stats you're requesting several times and people keep ignoring them so... I'll do it again.

Using ProFootballFocus Pass Blocking Efficiency Ratings and Stats... they are typically regarded as highly reputable for these kinds of things. Here's what we find

Da'rel Scott: He currently ranked 23rd overall among active RBs (with over 25% pass blocking snaps). On 50 Pass Blocking snaps he has allowed: 0 Sacks, 2 Hits, 1 Hurry for a total of 3 Pressures allowed and a Pass Blocking Efficiency Score of 95.5 (the highest possible is 100).

David Wilson: He is currently ranked 24th overall among active RBs (with over 25% pass blocking snaps). On 21 Pass Blocking snaps he has allowed: 1 Sack, 0 Hits and 0 Hurries for a total of 1 Pressure allowed and has a Pass Blocking Efficiency Score of 95.2 (the highest possible is 100).

Sooooooooooooooooooo... all in all they're more or less both completely, 100% even. Their scores are almost identical. This is the issue I; and many analysts have with the current situation going on in New York. As, the Giants aren't giving a reason as to this bizarre usage of their running backs. Coughlin just keeps ignoring the issue. And if you saw the sack that Wilson 'allowed' one could argue he's actually been better than Scott in pass protection this season. As the 'allowed' sack by Wilson came when two Dallas defenders made their way into the backfield as Wilson was coming out of a play action fake and he simply was unable to adjust in time to square up on the defender. Irregardless of the fact that there were two defenders that broke through the line and not one, so even if he was able to square up his guy he still would have 'allowed' a sack.

To be fair argument I was making to support my position that Wilson is not a "elite talent" was that he was not as good as Brown on short yardage and passing plays. To make the statement that wilson is %100 percent even with the guy behind him on the depth chart when it comes to pass blocking is not a good thing.

Wilson wasn't good enough to be an every down back with Brown active and his pass blocking is par with the 3rd stringer, I stand by my assertion that he is nothing more than an average back.

I have seen the "flashes" and he could be great, but I think the weaknesses in other areas of his play hamper him from being elite.