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***Deangelo Williams, Pittsburgh Steelers*** (2 Viewers)

bigugly said:
Is that usually something worth worrying about? It would be good to know now since I could start Gurley instead of him.
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Im not worried, not a good idea to dehydrate and work a player while hes sick. He is probably just resting and drinking plenty of fluids.

 
Ojaays said:
Worth a bump.

So D-Will's been going 9th,10th round redraft.

Where does he go now?
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He goes anywhere except LeVeon's house to smoke dope. 

In all reality, he should be in the top 10 discussion at the position because he played to that level when needed last year and at this rate, there is little guarantee that Bell just steps in week 5 and rolls without injury or other off field issues.  I can see a scenario where he comes back but does not start week 5 due to preparedness  and they have a week 8 bye so in all reality, you may only have Bell for 2 weeks by the time Week 9 rolls around and by then, the FF season is pretty set and you know if you are in it to win it or what not.  So I think DWIl has tremendous value for at LEAST five of the first 8 weeks of the season for some owners.

 
As a major non believer in Bell this news is poison to Williams ADP.  He was a potential top 5 RB going in the 9th. Ugh.

 
Shutout said:
He goes anywhere except LeVeon's house to smoke dope. 

In all reality, he should be in the top 10 discussion at the position because he played to that level when needed last year and at this rate, there is little guarantee that Bell just steps in week 5 and rolls without injury or other off field issues.  I can see a scenario where he comes back but does not start week 5 due to preparedness  and they have a week 8 bye so in all reality, you may only have Bell for 2 weeks by the time Week 9 rolls around and by then, the FF season is pretty set and you know if you are in it to win it or what not.  So I think DWIl has tremendous value for at LEAST five of the first 8 weeks of the season for some owners.
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We can't predict whether he will be injured between now & then, or if there will be other off-field issues.  Barring those things, however, it's safe to assume that week 5, Bell will be the main RB in Pittsburgh, & will get the vast majority of the touches.

Bell's rookie year, he missed the first few games because of a foot sprain (feared to be a lis franc at the time).  He returned in week 3 & got 20 touches, even though he was expected to be out longer, and they had a bye in week 4.

Also, same season, he gets KTFO against Baltimore in week 13, is out cold on the field, but is cleared to play & the coaches give him 20 touches the next week.

Last year, after D Will was the #2 rusher in the NFL the first 2 weeks, Bell returns week 3 & gets 26 touches (Williams got 1).

I think it's safe to say that the Pitt coaches will play Bell, without restrictions, when he returns from suspension.  It's also fairly safe to assume Williams will become all but useless (ff-speaking) once Bell returns, barring injury.  Until Bell got hurt against Cincy, Williams didn't get more than 5 touches in a game after Bell's return.

 
Ilov80s said:
As a major non believer in Bell this news is poison to Williams ADP.  He was a potential top 5 RB going in the 9th. Ugh.
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Yep.  I grabbed him super cheap in two dynasties and in both looked to flip him to the Bell owners for a moderate profit.  They are gonna regret not jumping, cause it takes a whole lot more to pry him away now.

 
In two 12-team $$$ PPR redrafts last night, Williams went late seventh round. Once was to me at 7.11 after I took Bell at 2.02. The other, I think, was 7.12 to a non-Bell owner.

I've read on other boards that he should be going fifth or sixth round now. That's insane, imo. Even though he performed much better than expected last year, I am concerned about his age this year. Late seventh/early eighth round sounds about right to me.

But if someone wants to reach in the fifth for Williams, more power to the bold drafter.

 
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fantasycurse42 said:
I don't see a thread in the player index
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Amazing this is still true.

Presuming Bell truly is suspended four games, where are you taking D-Will in redraft? I'm thinking if he's there in the 7th-8th it's a no-brainer.

Wouldn't want to pay much more than that, though.

Guy was a huge part of last year's championship :flex: squad paired with Gurley & J-Stew.

 
purestrength said:
In two 12-team $$$ PPR redrafts last night, Williams went late seventh round. Once was to me at 7.11 after I took Bell at 2.02. The other, I think, was 7.12 to a non-Bell owner.

I've read on other boards that he should be going fifth or sixth round now. That's insane, imo. Even though he performed much better than expected last year, I am concerned about his age this year. Late seventh/early eighth round sounds about right to me.

But if someone wants to reach in the fifth for Williams, more power to the bold drafter.
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BobbyLayne said:
Amazing this is still true.

Presuming Bell truly is suspended four games, where are you taking D-Will in redraft? I'm thinking if he's there in the 7th-8th it's a no-brainer.

Wouldn't want to pay much more than that, though.

Guy was a huge part of last year's championship :flex: squad paired with Gurley & J-Stew.
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What pick would you give to move from 2.02 to 1.02?*   Because that's pretty much what you're doing.  You get Bell in early 2, you get Deangelo wherever you get him, and you have the 1.02 equivalent.

*Not my original idea, but I love looking at it this way.

 
Hankmoody said:
What pick would you give to move from 2.02 to 1.02?*   Because that's pretty much what you're doing.  You get Bell in early 2, you get Deangelo wherever you get him, and you have the 1.02 equivalent.

*Not my original idea, but I love looking at it this way.
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Some would call that fairly optimistic at this juncture, and I hope you're in my next draft.

 
Hankmoody said:
What pick would you give to move from 2.02 to 1.02?*   Because that's pretty much what you're doing.  You get Bell in early 2, you get Deangelo wherever you get him, and you have the 1.02 equivalent.

*Not my original idea, but I love looking at it this way.
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That depends on the "wherever you get him part" because it would be 4th round, could be 6th round or could be you don't get him at all. 

 
Deangelo has gone in the 6th round in 2 drafts I've done this week in FFPC.

One was the Bell owner,  and one wasn't.

 
Ojaays said:
Some would call that fairly optimistic at this juncture, and I hope you're in my next draft.
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No, you really don't.

Not sure what makes it optimistic, it was clearly a conceptual post.  Someone commented here on FBG that they drafted Bell 2.04.

 
I guess I should add, when someone drafts Bell/Williams with a 2 and a 6, to get 1RB, to me , thats a win for me as it pushes 2 good players to me.

 
Ojaays said:
Not talking about where he's drafted, I'm talking about expecting 1.02 value from a Bell/Williams pair.
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Ok, so think of an example of where Bell is drafted, what you expect the pair to be the equivalent of, and what pick you'd trade to get from the former to the latter.  It's a simple break-even analysis.  At some point it makes sense to do it, and until then it doesn't.  Best part is you have full control over whether you pay it or not.  I'm simply suggesting you look at the pick not as getting Deangelo, but as locking up the PIT RB spot and determine the value of that instead.

 
Hankmoody said:
Ok, so think of an example of where Bell is drafted, what you expect the pair to be the equivalent of, and what pick you'd trade to get from the former to the latter.  It's a simple break-even analysis.  At some point it makes sense to do it, and until then it doesn't.  Best part is you have full control over whether you pay it or not.  I'm simply suggesting you look at the pick not as getting Deangelo, but as locking up the PIT RB spot and determine the value of that instead.
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Ok, and what I'm saying is, a 2 and a 6 is too rich for one position on an FFPC team. 

I want my 2 and 6 playing every week.  You will have to sit one of them EVERY week.

 
Ojaays said:
Ok, and what I'm saying is, a 2 and a 6 is too rich for one position on an FFPC team. 

I want my 2 and 6 playing every week.  You will have to sit one of them EVERY week.
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I would think that in particular in a league like FPPC, one would be willing to trade a 6th round pick to move from the 2nd to the 1st.  I know FPPC has cuts in the spring to pretty tight numbers, aren't there decent options on the wire?  I would think consolidation like this would be a big goal.  I'm only in one redraft these days, but I'd trade my 2nd and 6th for a 1st in a heartbeat.

 
Ojaays said:
And thats the thing, if you draft Bell, You will HAVE to draft Williams in the 6th, you might not get him there and you Won't get him in the 7th ,your league won't let you.
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You never HAVE to do anything. You can ride out the first four weeks by relying on your depth at the position if some one grabs Williams earlier than you'd be willing to.

I'm not advocating taking Bell in the second necessarily, but I don't think it's an outlandish strategy to get a potential difference maker much later than you otherwise would.

 
Well, if you want Williams, it will take a 6th.

Drafting just Bell, if you have a plan to mitigate the first 4 weeks with adequate depth and passing on spending a 6th on Williams, who is useless to you after week4 , is probably a better play numerically. 

 
Ojaays said:
Well, if you want Williams, it will take a 6th.

Drafting just Bell, if you have a plan to mitigate the first 4 weeks with adequate depth and passing on spending a 6th on Williams, who is useless to you after week4 , is probably a better play numerically. 
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You talk in such absolutes. While a sixth round pick is expensive for a handcuff, many people employ the handcuff strategy for their top RBs. He is injury security after week 4 and perhaps even a decent bye week filler if the Steelers are playing a team they should steamroll and you could envision both backs seeing enough carries. So a guy that can heavily contribute to a win or two during the fist four weeks and then give you piece of mind and depth for the rest of the season isn't a "wasted" pick in round 6.

I'm actually sort of on your side in this. I'd likely not grab both and would rather grab one or the other in a redraft setting, but it's an interesting conceptual draft strategy that makes a lot of sense in the context of the "what would you pay to move up from mid-second to early first?' analysis.

 
The other thing I forgot to mention is :  folks are assuming Williams will be awesome again or better,  a year older, history shows father time is not on Williams' side.

 
Ojaays said:
The other thing I forgot to mention is :  folks are assuming Williams will be awesome again or better,  a year older, history shows father time is not on Williams' side.
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Isn't every player a year older this year? :(

As far as the father time comment, that's correct, but it was also true last year.

Again, if you'd trade your 2nd & 6th (although, I still think he'll be available a bit later) for the 1.01 pick, picking Bell & DWill makes sense.  In reality, its like trading your 2nd & 6th for the 1.01 & a 10th rounder (since most who drafted Bell would have wanted to handcuff him with DWill).  Plug those picks into FBGs pick calculator & its AT LEAST an 11% improvement (if you use picks 1.01 & 10.12 for 2.01 & 6.01).

 
So who do you draft in the 6th?  Alan Hurns?  Decker?  Lockett?

I'd trade any of those guys and Lamar Miller for a non-suspended Le'veon Bell and waiver filer any day of the week.

 
Bayhawks said:
Isn't every player a year older this year? :(

As far as the father time comment, that's correct, but it was also true last year.

Again, if you'd trade your 2nd & 6th (although, I still think he'll be available a bit later) for the 1.01 pick, picking Bell & DWill makes sense.  In reality, its like trading your 2nd & 6th for the 1.01 & a 10th rounder (since most who drafted Bell would have wanted to handcuff him with DWill).  Plug those picks into FBGs pick calculator & its AT LEAST an 11% improvement (if you use picks 1.01 & 10.12 for 2.01 & 6.01).
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Yes, for some it is pulling them into their prime and for others it is pulling them away from their prime. It's not that complicated as to why a year older for DWill is a negative while a year older for a guy like Eric Ebron is a positive. 

 
Ilov80s said:
Yes, for some it is pulling them into their prime and for others it is pulling them away from their prime. It's not that complicated as to why a year older for DWill is a negative while a year older for a guy like Eric Ebron is a positive. 
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It was a joke; I thought the emoticon conveyed that, as well as my very next sentence.

 
Ojaays said:
The other thing I forgot to mention is :  folks are assuming Williams will be awesome again or better,  a year older, history shows father time is not on Williams' side.
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You are assuming Lev Bell will stay healthy and not do drugs. I think spending a 6th on Dwill is a small price to pay.

 
Hankmoody said:
So who do you draft in the 6th?  Alan Hurns?  Decker?  Lockett?

I'd trade any of those guys and Lamar Miller for a non-suspended Le'veon Bell and waiver filer any day of the week.
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That's easy, in FFPC, I'll take all of the above over Wiliams because by that time I'll already have 3 starting RBs on the roster, and 2 Stud WRs.

 
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Ojaays said:
The other thing I forgot to mention is :  folks are assuming Williams will be awesome again or better,  a year older, history shows father time is not on Williams' side.
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33 is definitely old for a RB, and for that reason alone he's a risk. The elite level runners like Emmit and Curtis Martin have a aged a little better and if you look at Williams' career ypc, you'd see he's a lot closer to elite than he's likely given credit for. It's a shame that he and Jonathan Stewart shared a backfield so often as it didn't allow either one to reach their true potential. Speaking of which, the fact that he was mired in a RBBC for most of his career has lessened the wear and tear on Williams which could help keep him a bit more effective at 33. That said 33 is 33, so you could very well be right with your caution.

 
Curious why this hasn't been bumped.

So who has traded away DeAngelo at this point now that his time has basically run out?

Who continues to stash even though they don't own Bell?
 

I'm trying to gauge trade value. I could probably get a R. Jennings or T. Rawls for DeAngelo right now.

 
I have Bell and the Williams owner has D. Martin and other RB injuries.  I offered C. Sims for Dwill but he hasnt accepted or declined yet.

 
Deangelo officially ruled out this weekend with a knee injury, per Jeremy Fowler.

Has anyone heard anything about what this injury might be/expected timeline? He's arguably the number one handcuff in the game right now, but if this knee injury is expected to keep him out I'd rather use that roster spot for a dart throw, or even for Toussaint, just to give me some Bell insurance.

 
Redraft donzo. But what about Dyno? I assume he wont resign which makes me feel like he is a playoff insurance policy for Bell owners but is toussaint or williams a better stash at this point this year and headed into next?

 
starks said:
Redraft donzo. But what about Dyno? I assume he wont resign which makes me feel like he is a playoff insurance policy for Bell owners but is toussaint or williams a better stash at this point this year and headed into next?




 




 
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I dropped him last night in the 4 dynasty leagues that I had him rostered.  He's only been picked up by another owner in one of them so far.  It was a tough call but I think that he is likely done for the rest of this year and I am not sure that he comes back next year.  I'd rather take a gamble on a flyer at this point than hold onto Williams with the hope of getting 3 or 4 games (albeit great games) from him next year.

 
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wakelawyer said:
I dropped him last night in the 4 dynasty leagues that I had him rostered.  He's only been picked up by another owner in one of them so far.  It was a tough call but I think that he is likely done for the rest of this year and I am not sure that he comes back next year.  I'd rather take a gamble on a flyer at this point than hold onto Williams with the hope of getting 3 or 4 games (albeit great games) from him next year.
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I guess I should have stated I was talking about karlos Williams or toussaint

 
Is there any confirmation of how long Williams is out? I've seen as little as 2 weeks and as many as 6 weeks. Hate to drop him if he's back in a few weeks.

 
So he's going to be out 2-3 weeks at best and you're only holding him in case Bell gets hurt. Not good odds. Dump him.

 
Droppable in all but the deepest bench redraft leagues, but what do dynasty owners expect his value to be next year?  Is he still a strong handcuff for Bell?

 
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