Noahs Troopers
Footballguy
Emmitt Smith #22 | Running back | Height: 5-10 Weight: 216
Is the 1 inch or 2 pounds a big deal?
Is the 1 inch or 2 pounds a big deal?
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DeAngelo Williams (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Rev
- Start date
cstu
Footballguy
Here's where I disagree. There's no question that the PAC-10 is a great offensive conference, but it's not the first choice for defensive players. Just look at how many defensive players from the PAC-10 are ranked in the top 5 at their positions vs. those on offense.I'm also not that against a JJA comparison since he did about as well as anyone could have running the ball last year for AZ. I think DeAngelo is better and has some intangibles that JJA doesn't.
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EBF
Footballguy
It's easy to bash the Pac-10, but the numbers don't lie. These allegedly-lousy Pac-10 teams are going to put a lot more defensive players in the NFL than the scrub squads that DeAngelo was beating up on.
To be clear, I think Williams is a better prospect than Arrington. He clearly has better quickness and seems to be a better athlete. That said, I don't see him as a surefire stud and I don't think he's on the same level as guys like Kevin Jones, Cadillac Williams, and Reggie Bush (my top-rated RBs from the past three classes). DeAngelo strikes me as a guy who could become a good starter, but who also comes with some significant red flags. The main reason I brought up Arrington is because I remember being unimpressed with him in games despite all of his gaudy stats and impressive workout numbers. He just never stood out to me as a special talent.
Williams is definitely a bit better, but I still don't see him as the kind of elite talent who's going to consistently rank among the top RBs in the NFL. When I watch him play, I just don't see an NFL superstar in waiting.
Of course, I've been wrong before, and I'm sure it'll happen again.
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cstu
Footballguy
There's no question the PAC-10 has good defensive players, but the the problem is that they were outnumbered by great offensive players.In the PAC-10, the "A" offenses going against "B" defenses have an advantage while DeAngelo played on a "C" offense vs. "C" defenses. He had a somewhat level playing field even if he was the most talented player on it.
Rev
Footballguy
1. I think that the 2 videos are completely different. Williams' video is of his 2004 TD's only, so it excludes alot of the long runs and nice moves that Bush's video includes. It also doesn't show Williams recieving or returning kicks, which I believe he did at Memphis on some level.2. I did notice that nearly 80% of the plays in the Bush video are kick returns or receptions, where he STARTS in the open field with alot of space and momentum. It reminds me of a Dante Hall highlight video in some ways. Meanwhile, D. Williams is shown making plays while rushing from scrimage. To me, the Williams video shows more of an NFL-like setting in terms of the responsibilities than an NFL back has.I think he's faster, quicker, stronger, more explosive, and that he has better balance. It's tough to prove most of these things, but I think their highlights speak for themselveseAngelo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRYXwXxVHrQ...gelo%20williams
Bush - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7YoHeZWMqo...h=reggie%20bush
I think Bush clearly looks better on film. He makes a handful of plays that leave you shaking your head, whereas most of Williams' runs are merely solid.
3. I think the videos actually show Williams to be a better pure back, though Bush is certainly shown to be a freak who needs just a crack and can take it to the house. I don't see the obvious disparity that the prior poster points out. Maybe it's just me!
BigJim®
Footballguy
I've seen a lot of DeAngelo clips and he just has this instinctive juke that causes defenders in his path to fall down. I know it's cliche to compare a guy to HOF'ers but... when I see him give that hesitation juke and the defender falls down without even attempting to tackle him, I think Barry Sanders. Like Barry, he'll rarely take a direct hit due to his ability to keep defenders off balance. To me, that's what sets him apart from the RB who just runs straight ahead with reckless abandon hoping to run over defenders, or those who break the run outside without juking inside first.You can compare numbers/physical attributes, but Arrington was knocked for running north/south with little to no "shiftiness". From watching a few Memphis games and his higlight videos; he's got more "moves" than Arrington. No comparison.As we've seen time and time again, combine/physical measurables don't necessarily bring NFL success. Clearly more to that.
Williams has got vision, I don't think Arrington does, or he hasn't shown it.
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This is what I'm talking about in my post above.
I hadn't heard this or seen this in the limited games (2) I've seen Williams play this past season. I also don't see any fumbles or lost fumbles noted here:http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/stats?playerId=133410
Maybe ESPN doesn't track all fumbles. Anyone else seen this as an issue with him from game footage?
Pimpin Ain't Easy
Footballguy
You left out the part about career stats........Big difference between JJ and DW IMO.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Similar numbers notwithstanding, I saw tons of video clips of JJ Arrington last season and was very unimpressed. Would not have touched him with a 10-foot pole in my rookie draft and was shocked he was considered a 2nd round NFL pick and a 1.4 dynasty rookie pick. Conversely, I've seen a lot of film of D.Williams and was extremely impressed. Sometimes numbers just don't mean that much at all. There are too many irrelevant factors which drive numbers. Seeing how a guy runs is believing.
Traders2001
Footballguy
Not even close to Caddy , Brown maybe.
Traders2001
Footballguy
M
MLBrandow
Guest
cstu
Footballguy
LT was a much better receiver, faster, and didn't have the injury questions. I do think that had he played in a different conference that DeAngelo would be regarded much higher, like Cadillac was last year. I also think the fact that many teams have drafted RB's the past couple years and that the top 20 either don't need RB's or don't have it as their main priority. I think the 2004 draft shows that it isn't a matter of just talent but which teams are looking for RB's.
EBF
Footballguy
I agree completely.However, I still contend that DeAngelo isn't the player that many are cracking him up to be. He has a ton of supporters on these boards, but the opinions on him are very mixed across various draft sources. Some people think he's the #2 RB in the draft. Some people think he's the #5 RB in the draft.
I don't think there would be as much variance if he were truly as elite as some are making him out to be. Also, I would expect there to be more talk of him going early in the draft if he were truly an elite prospect.
It's true that there aren't a lot of teams at the top of the draft with RB needs, but it's not as if Tampa Bay and Chicago were truly desperate for RBs last year. They were both in nearly as good of shape as teams like NYJ, Green Bay, San Francisco, Baltimore, Philadelphia and Denver (teams with top 15 picks this year).
Anyhow, I don't think Williams is a lock to bust, but I also don't think he's the second coming of LaDainian Tomlinson. I think the reality of the situation is that he's a decent prospect who should become a decent starter, but that he's definitely a step below recent guys like Reggie Bush and Cadillac Williams.
BigJim®
Footballguy
SoloMatisse
Footballguy
I agree wholeheartedly with all of the DWilliams support, and agree that a comparison to JJArrington is only appropriate when measuring size. I watched film on Arrington last year before FF drafts when I was considering Arrington, but traded down when I saw that he couldnt run away from basically anyone, and he played even smaller than he looked. That guy is nowhere close to having NFL power or speed. Williams has the look of an NFL back from studying his film with what appears to be great LEG strength, nice vision, and and very subtle juke moves that make all the difference in his success. He benched the #s 25 times, so the strength is there. I think he's just been completely overshadowed by Reggie Bush, who has been absolutely, without a doubt the MOST HYPED ATHLETE entering a professional draft of any kind that I can ever recall. Walking in that HUGE dark shadow is not easy for back #2, which is what Williams is. He will be one of the greatest value picks of this draft, imo if he happens to slide past Denver at pick 15, but after pick 20, teams would be absolutely NUTs to pass on him no matter what their need would be.
Rev
Footballguy
From watching this video, I would note a couple things: 1. DW was cought from behind a few times when I though he should have exploded past guys.
2. He had some very nice jukes and cutbacks on some plays, but on others he seemed to go down without too much of a fight. When running decisively, he is tough to stop and can explode through holes and create space for himself. He simply needs to be conscious about cutting hard and running full speed at the right time.
My sense is that he may not have the elite speed to purely outrun DB's, but he should continue to develop in his running style, having the instincts to gain yards in traffic and make big plays happen. He does appear to have the makings of a productive NFL back.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
I pretty much agree with all of this. I'm not bothered by the Reggie hype, because I think he's very special, not god-like mind you, but very special and deserving to be #1 overall. But there's not another back in this class close to DeAngelo either.I listed his injury history before. He's never gone a full season without an injury. He broke his foot in high school. Tweaked his ankle last year. Broke his leg the year before that. Had ACL surgery (not a terrible knee injury, something like DJax last year) one of the other two years, and a minor injury the year I haven't accounted for. His down time has mostly been in the off-season for the two major injuries.
