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Death rates in democratic counties falling faster than in republican counties. (1 Viewer)

Article about Mortality rates in Democratic vs Republican counties

Honestly, I would have guessed it would be the opposite with studies showing faith/religion being an important part of living longer.

Maybe too much Fox News on the couch? (softball, I know)


that's an interesting article - the shift in political affiliations especially 

 “White Americans who live in Democratic areas are much more likely to have great improvements in health compared to white people who live in Republican counties.”

White, working class Americans who were once a part of the Democratic party shifted to the Republican party when former President Donald Trump began his campaign, he said. This shift also pushed wealthier Americans towards the Democratic party.

“The takeaway is that we’re seeing social shifts that mean that the Democratic party is increasingly pulling in healthier people and the Republican party is pulling in sicker people,” Muennig said.

 
Not clear on whether they controlled for age or used raw statistics, but that's one confounder that comes to mind - lots of older people move to southern states during retirement, and of course those states tend to be more Republican than the states they move from.

To the extent it's a real phenomenon, I'd expect it's the realignment of the white rural areas to being massively Republican-leaning combined with the poverty and high drug use of said areas.  I was in rural Missouri a few years ago, and it was absolutely shocking seeing all of the shuttered towns with decaying buildings.  The thought that kept occurring to me as I drove by houses was "where do these people work???"

 
that's an interesting article - the shift in political affiliations especially 

 “White Americans who live in Democratic areas are much more likely to have great improvements in health compared to white people who live in Republican counties.”

White, working class Americans who were once a part of the Democratic party shifted to the Republican party when former President Donald Trump began his campaign, he said. This shift also pushed wealthier Americans towards the Democratic party.

“The takeaway is that we’re seeing social shifts that mean that the Democratic party is increasingly pulling in healthier people and the Republican party is pulling in sicker people,” Muennig said.
Hello, Captain Obvious.

Oh wait....

 
It is fascinating how the parties shifted because of Trump.  The guy was an ###, but from a pure influence standpoint he really did create seismic changes.

 
It is fascinating how the parties shifted because of Trump.  The guy was an ###, but from a pure influence standpoint he really did create seismic changes.
He definitely hastened it. Even the Make America Great Again slogan was playing to that. It’s a class and populist shift. It alienated former Republicans, examples like Rick Wilson and Steve Schmidt.  In the initial analysis the media thought this was the doom of the party. They didn’t foresee those people being replaced by folks who had voted Democratic at least some in the past. I don’t know that these voters are necessarily Republicans, but more America first type voters. 

 
He definitely hastened it. Even the Make America Great Again slogan was playing to that. It’s a class and populist shift. It alienated former Republicans, examples like Rick Wilson and Steve Schmidt.  In the initial analysis the media thought this was the doom of the party. They didn’t foresee those people being replaced by folks who had voted Democratic at least some in the past. I don’t know that these voters are necessarily Republicans, but more America first type voters. 
Yeah but hear me out on this.  If Republicans play their hand right, some of the changes Trump made could help them for years and years.  I'm a Republican, and one of the things that always bothered me about the party was that it was elitist and the party of big business.  I come from a lower middle class background and one of the things I liked about Trump was that he understood the working class.  I'm sure I'll get skewered for that comment, but it's true, and it's the reason he was elected.  The Liberal media completely missed this, and they've never really appreciated it.  How could a billionaire appeal to the working class?  After all, Democrats have always been the party of Unions and the disenfranchised. But all that changed in 2015 and 2016.  I watched all those Trump rallies, even went to a few of them.  He really did speak to those people, and on a very personal level.  That's why I knew he would win.  Hillary and Democrats had completely taken these people for granted, and even insulted them on occasion.  I said it at the time and I believe it to this day - the "basket of deplorable" comment cost Hillary the Presidency.  It validated what many middle class whites had been suspecting - that the Democrat Party had become the party of big business and minorities, and the white middle class was not only being neglected, it was being scorned.  And yes, Trump did resonate with these people.  And not because they were all racists.  He talked about how offshoring our manufacturing base had decimated an entire class of people, and that not only was it bad for the middle class, it was bad for America.  And he was right.  It was proven by the Chinese having us over a barrel with pharmaceuticals.  It was proven by today's inflation, which is due in large part to an over-reliance on Russian oil and Chinese supply chains.  And by all appearances it was the Democrats who were in bed with China.

Look - I despise Trump.  I always knew he was a narcissistic ##### with horrible behaviors.  But like millions of others, I pinched my nose and voted for him in 2016, and I did so because I felt strongly that his policies were best for America.  And overall he's been proven correct, and you really can't argue otherwise.  America First - while causing a Pavlovian dog response from Liberals - was absolutely the right policy at the right time.  The USA no longer has a post-WWII dividend.  It has been spent.  I don't like the way Trump went about changing that paradigm, but I still believe he was right.  One of the things that really resonated with Trump supporters at rallies was when he would talk about the deteriorating state of the USA infrastructure when compared to other countries.  He would talk about going from a US airport to an airport in another country.  BINGO.  Look at the development of China and Middle Eastern countries like UAE.  The US is falling behind.  And all the while we are vesting our entire economy on a country (China) that has as its objective a published plan to overtake us on the world stage.

Like I said, if Republicans play their cards right they will lock in this middle class block - and not just whites.  Hispanics are ripe for the taking.  It's already happening.  They tend to lean Conservative, even despite the idiotic and racist comments Trump made about Mexicans.  Democrats haven't learned the lesson of 2016, and I see no indication that they will do so anytime soon.  They have been conditioned to view everything through the lens of identity politics - a lens that focuses on immutable characteristic like race, sex, gender, etc... It' a fundamental misreading of the American public.  Yes there are pockets of racism and white supremacy within the Republican Party.  It is very small and it is way overblown.  I've said this before in here - I know a lot people and I'm very tied in to Republicans in my state (CT).  I have only met 2 people in my life that I would say have antipathy towards blacks or hispanics.  That's it.  Many others are called racists, but if you listen carefully what they really want is an even playing field for everyone, and to judge people on the content of their character rather than the color of their skin.  Democrats don't understand this truth.  They are fundamentally incapable of understanding it.  Hearing them talk, you would sear that 50% of Republicans are avowed racists.  It's completely false.  "Basket of deplorables" indeed.

 
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Yeah but hear me out on this.  If Republicans play their hand right, some of the changes Trump made could help them for years and years.  I'm a Republican, and one of the things that always bothered me about the party was that it was elitist and the party of big business.  I come from a lower middle class background and one of the things I liked about Trump was that he understood the working class.  I'm sure I'll get skewered for that comment, but it's true, and it's the reason he was elected.  The Liberal media completely missed this, and they've never really appreciated it.  How could a billionaire appeal to the working class?  After all, Democrats have always been the party of Unions and the disenfranchised. But all that changed in 2015 and 2016.  I watched all those Trump rallies, even went to a few of them.  He really did speak to those people, and on a very personal level.  That's why I knew he would win.  Hillary and Democrats had completely taken these people for granted, and even insulted them on occasion.  I said it at the time and I believe it to this day - the "basket of deplorable" comment cost Hillary the Presidency.  It validated what many middle class whites had been suspecting - that the Democrat Party had become the party of big business and minorities, and the white middle class was not only being neglected, it was being scorned.  And yes, Trump did resonate with these people.  And not because they were all racists.  He talked about how offshoring our manufacturing base had decimated an entire class of people, and that not only was it bad for the middle class, it was bad for America.  And he was right.  It was proven by the Chinese having us over a barrel with pharmaceuticals.  It was proven by today's inflation, which is due in large part to an over-reliance on Russian oil and Chinese supply chains.  And by all appearances it was the Democrats who were in bed with China.

Look - I despise Trump.  I always knew he was a narcissistic ##### with horrible behaviors.  But like millions of others, I pinched my nose and voted for him in 2016, and I did so because I felt strongly that his policies were best for America.  And overall he's been proven correct, and you really can't argue otherwise.  America First - while causing a Pavlovian dog response from Liberals - was absolutely the right policy at the right time.  The USA no longer has a post-WWII dividend.  It has been spent.  I don't like the way Trump went about changing that paradigm, but I still believe he was right.  One of the things that really resonated with Trump supporters at rallies was when he would talk about the deteriorating state of the USA infrastructure when compared to other countries.  He would talk about going from a US airport to an airport in another country.  BINGO.  Look at the development of China and Middle Eastern countries like UAE.  The US is falling behind.  And all the while we are vesting our entire economy on a country (China) that has as its objective a published plan to overtake us on the world stage.

Like I said, if Republicans play their cards right they will lock in this middle class block - and not just whites.  Hispanics are ripe for the taking.  It's already happening.  They tend to lean Conservative, even despite the idiotic and racist comments Trump made about Mexicans.  Democrats haven't learned the lesson of 2016, and I see no indication that they will do so anytime soon.  They have been conditioned to view everything through the lens of identity politics - a lens that focuses on immutable characteristic like race, sex, gender, etc... It' a fundamental misreading of the American public.  Yes there are pockets of racism and white supremacy within the Republican Party.  It is very small and it is way overblown.  I've said this before in here - I know a lot people and I'm very tied in to Republicans in my state (CT).  I have only met 2 people in my life that I would say have antipathy towards blacks or hispanics.  That's it.  Many others are called racists, but if you listen carefully what they really want is an even playing field for everyone, and to judge people on the content of their character rather than the color of their skin.  Democrats don't understand this truth.  They are fundamentally incapable of understanding it.  Hearing them talk, you would sear that 50% of Republicans are avowed racists.  It's completely false.  "Basket of deplorables" indeed.
There's a lot in here that's right (the bolded in particular) and lots that's wrong (or ignored).  It's easy to say "we should manufacture here", but it's not easy to make it happen.  What policies will make that happen and are those policies good for the working class?  Trump absolutely resonated with the working class, but he most certainly doesn't understand their struggles or how to make their lives better.  Nothing he did helped them.  Tariffs don't help.  Pissing on trade agreements doesn't help.  Screaming "foreign manufacturing bad!" doesn't help.

I also take issue with the idea that most Democrats think most Republicans are racist.  This isn't true, but it's what Trump, Fox News, and their ilk are pushing.  The constant meme is "this is what liberals think", and it's been that way since the early days of Rush Limbaugh.  It was practically Rush's catch-phrase.  It's easy to hate someone if you believe they hate you.

 
Yeah but hear me out on this.  If Republicans play their hand right, some of the changes Trump made could help them for years and years.  I'm a Republican, and one of the things that always bothered me about the party was that it was elitist and the party of big business.  I come from a lower middle class background and one of the things I liked about Trump was that he understood the working class.  I'm sure I'll get skewered for that comment, but it's true, and it's the reason he was elected.  The Liberal media completely missed this, and they've never really appreciated it.  How could a billionaire appeal to the working class?  After all, Democrats have always been the party of Unions and the disenfranchised. But all that changed in 2015 and 2016.  I watched all those Trump rallies, even went to a few of them.  He really did speak to those people, and on a very personal level.  That's why I knew he would win.  Hillary and Democrats had completely taken these people for granted, and even insulted them on occasion.  I said it at the time and I believe it to this day - the "basket of deplorable" comment cost Hillary the Presidency.  It validated what many middle class whites had been suspecting - that the Democrat Party had become the party of big business and minorities, and the white middle class was not only being neglected, it was being scorned.  And yes, Trump did resonate with these people.  And not because they were all racists.  He talked about how offshoring our manufacturing base had decimated an entire class of people, and that not only was it bad for the middle class, it was bad for America.  And he was right.  It was proven by the Chinese having us over a barrel with pharmaceuticals.  It was proven by today's inflation, which is due in large part to an over-reliance on Russian oil and Chinese supply chains.  And by all appearances it was the Democrats who were in bed with China.

Look - I despise Trump.  I always knew he was a narcissistic ##### with horrible behaviors.  But like millions of others, I pinched my nose and voted for him in 2016, and I did so because I felt strongly that his policies were best for America.  And overall he's been proven correct, and you really can't argue otherwise.  America First - while causing a Pavlovian dog response from Liberals - was absolutely the right policy at the right time.  The USA no longer has a post-WWII dividend.  It has been spent.  I don't like the way Trump went about changing that paradigm, but I still believe he was right.  One of the things that really resonated with Trump supporters at rallies was when he would talk about the deteriorating state of the USA infrastructure when compared to other countries.  He would talk about going from a US airport to an airport in another country.  BINGO.  Look at the development of China and Middle Eastern countries like UAE.  The US is falling behind.  And all the while we are vesting our entire economy on a country (China) that has as its objective a published plan to overtake us on the world stage.

Like I said, if Republicans play their cards right they will lock in this middle class block - and not just whites.  Hispanics are ripe for the taking.  It's already happening.  They tend to lean Conservative, even despite the idiotic and racist comments Trump made about Mexicans.  Democrats haven't learned the lesson of 2016, and I see no indication that they will do so anytime soon.  They have been conditioned to view everything through the lens of identity politics - a lens that focuses on immutable characteristic like race, sex, gender, etc... It' a fundamental misreading of the American public.  Yes there are pockets of racism and white supremacy within the Republican Party.  It is very small and it is way overblown.  I've said this before in here - I know a lot people and I'm very tied in to Republicans in my state (CT).  I have only met 2 people in my life that I would say have antipathy towards blacks or hispanics.  That's it.  Many others are called racists, but if you listen carefully what they really want is an even playing field for everyone, and to judge people on the content of their character rather than the color of their skin.  Democrats don't understand this truth.  They are fundamentally incapable of understanding it.  Hearing them talk, you would sear that 50% of Republicans are avowed racists.  It's completely false.  "Basket of deplorables" indeed.
not a bad point and also one of the reasons why Bernie had so much traction in the primary vs HC. Bernie’s rhetoric was very similar to Trumps in terms of the working class but with a different solution to the issue than what Trump was selling. 

mind you, HC not winning the election was because of the thinnest of margins so there are a lot of “calls” her campaign made that you can pin on being “out of touch” but truly If she made better peace w Bernie and let his “help the working class” message be part of her campaign who knows how much of the Trump legacy simply gets buried?

 
Good post, @ekbeats.    I bristled at exactly the point you made at the start  (I still don't believe that he understands or cares about the group of people he is talking to.  I don't think he has that in him), but IMO the rest is spot on.   It should have been a wake of call for the left, but I don't think enough took the time to look around their party to ask why and definitely didn't take enough time thinking about the other side's motivation and ask themselves why.    In the end it's not simple, but I think the main reason people were willing to look past the crassness was because he was at least able to communicate those frustrations and tap into that resentment of feeling left behind in Washington.  

 
not a bad point and also one of the reasons why Bernie had so much traction in the primary vs HC. Bernie’s rhetoric was very similar to Trumps in terms of the working class but with a different solution to the issue than what Trump was selling. 

mind you, HC not winning the election was because of the thinnest of margins so there are a lot of “calls” her campaign made that you can pin on being “out of touch” but truly If she made better peace w Bernie and let his “help the working class” message be part of her campaign who knows how much of the Trump legacy simply gets buried?
This is also true.  Sorry, @ekbeats, but I liken "basket of deplorables is what cost her the election" to a team that just made 17 errors in a game saying "well, that strikeout in the fourth inning was what killed us."  The list of unforced errors by HRC's campaign is longer than my monthly Costco shopping list.

 
Yeah but hear me out on this.  If Republicans play their hand right, some of the changes Trump made could help them for years and years.  I'm a Republican, and one of the things that always bothered me about the party was that it was elitist and the party of big business.  I come from a lower middle class background and one of the things I liked about Trump was that he understood the working class.  I'm sure I'll get skewered for that comment, but it's true, and it's the reason he was elected.  The Liberal media completely missed this, and they've never really appreciated it.  How could a billionaire appeal to the working class?  After all, Democrats have always been the party of Unions and the disenfranchised. But all that changed in 2015 and 2016.  I watched all those Trump rallies, even went to a few of them.  He really did speak to those people, and on a very personal level.  That's why I knew he would win.  Hillary and Democrats had completely taken these people for granted, and even insulted them on occasion.  I said it at the time and I believe it to this day - the "basket of deplorable" comment cost Hillary the Presidency.  It validated what many middle class whites had been suspecting - that the Democrat Party had become the party of big business and minorities, and the white middle class was not only being neglected, it was being scorned.  And yes, Trump did resonate with these people.  And not because they were all racists.  He talked about how offshoring our manufacturing base had decimated an entire class of people, and that not only was it bad for the middle class, it was bad for America.  And he was right.  It was proven by the Chinese having us over a barrel with pharmaceuticals.  It was proven by today's inflation, which is due in large part to an over-reliance on Russian oil and Chinese supply chains.  And by all appearances it was the Democrats who were in bed with China.

Look - I despise Trump.  I always knew he was a narcissistic ##### with horrible behaviors.  But like millions of others, I pinched my nose and voted for him in 2016, and I did so because I felt strongly that his policies were best for America.  And overall he's been proven correct, and you really can't argue otherwise.  America First - while causing a Pavlovian dog response from Liberals - was absolutely the right policy at the right time.  The USA no longer has a post-WWII dividend.  It has been spent.  I don't like the way Trump went about changing that paradigm, but I still believe he was right.  One of the things that really resonated with Trump supporters at rallies was when he would talk about the deteriorating state of the USA infrastructure when compared to other countries.  He would talk about going from a US airport to an airport in another country.  BINGO.  Look at the development of China and Middle Eastern countries like UAE.  The US is falling behind.  And all the while we are vesting our entire economy on a country (China) that has as its objective a published plan to overtake us on the world stage.

Like I said, if Republicans play their cards right they will lock in this middle class block - and not just whites.  Hispanics are ripe for the taking.  It's already happening.  They tend to lean Conservative, even despite the idiotic and racist comments Trump made about Mexicans.  Democrats haven't learned the lesson of 2016, and I see no indication that they will do so anytime soon.  They have been conditioned to view everything through the lens of identity politics - a lens that focuses on immutable characteristic like race, sex, gender, etc... It' a fundamental misreading of the American public.  Yes there are pockets of racism and white supremacy within the Republican Party.  It is very small and it is way overblown.  I've said this before in here - I know a lot people and I'm very tied in to Republicans in my state (CT).  I have only met 2 people in my life that I would say have antipathy towards blacks or hispanics.  That's it.  Many others are called racists, but if you listen carefully what they really want is an even playing field for everyone, and to judge people on the content of their character rather than the color of their skin.  Democrats don't understand this truth.  They are fundamentally incapable of understanding it.  Hearing them talk, you would sear that 50% of Republicans are avowed racists.  It's completely false.  "Basket of deplorables" indeed.
Good post, but I don't agree that his admin enacted policies for the middle class. He's a grifter. He said what that market wanted to here, but didn't do anything to tangibly impact them long term.

A republican party that acts on those words and enacts fiscally conservative policy is our path out of this hole, but there would be a period of hurt to go through first and the leaders being nominated do not indicate that's the path they intend to take.

 
Yeah but hear me out on this.  If Republicans play their hand right, some of the changes Trump made could help them for years and years.  I'm a Republican, and one of the things that always bothered me about the party was that it was elitist and the party of big business.  I come from a lower middle class background and one of the things I liked about Trump was that he understood the working class.  I'm sure I'll get skewered for that comment, but it's true, and it's the reason he was elected.  The Liberal media completely missed this, and they've never really appreciated it.  How could a billionaire appeal to the working class?  After all, Democrats have always been the party of Unions and the disenfranchised. But all that changed in 2015 and 2016.  I watched all those Trump rallies, even went to a few of them.  He really did speak to those people, and on a very personal level.  That's why I knew he would win.  Hillary and Democrats had completely taken these people for granted, and even insulted them on occasion.  I said it at the time and I believe it to this day - the "basket of deplorable" comment cost Hillary the Presidency.  It validated what many middle class whites had been suspecting - that the Democrat Party had become the party of big business and minorities, and the white middle class was not only being neglected, it was being scorned.  And yes, Trump did resonate with these people.  And not because they were all racists.  He talked about how offshoring our manufacturing base had decimated an entire class of people, and that not only was it bad for the middle class, it was bad for America.  And he was right.  It was proven by the Chinese having us over a barrel with pharmaceuticals.  It was proven by today's inflation, which is due in large part to an over-reliance on Russian oil and Chinese supply chains.  And by all appearances it was the Democrats who were in bed with China.

Look - I despise Trump.  I always knew he was a narcissistic ##### with horrible behaviors.  But like millions of others, I pinched my nose and voted for him in 2016, and I did so because I felt strongly that his policies were best for America.  And overall he's been proven correct, and you really can't argue otherwise.  America First - while causing a Pavlovian dog response from Liberals - was absolutely the right policy at the right time.  The USA no longer has a post-WWII dividend.  It has been spent.  I don't like the way Trump went about changing that paradigm, but I still believe he was right.  One of the things that really resonated with Trump supporters at rallies was when he would talk about the deteriorating state of the USA infrastructure when compared to other countries.  He would talk about going from a US airport to an airport in another country.  BINGO.  Look at the development of China and Middle Eastern countries like UAE.  The US is falling behind.  And all the while we are vesting our entire economy on a country (China) that has as its objective a published plan to overtake us on the world stage.

Like I said, if Republicans play their cards right they will lock in this middle class block - and not just whites.  Hispanics are ripe for the taking.  It's already happening.  They tend to lean Conservative, even despite the idiotic and racist comments Trump made about Mexicans.  Democrats haven't learned the lesson of 2016, and I see no indication that they will do so anytime soon.  They have been conditioned to view everything through the lens of identity politics - a lens that focuses on immutable characteristic like race, sex, gender, etc... It' a fundamental misreading of the American public.  Yes there are pockets of racism and white supremacy within the Republican Party.  It is very small and it is way overblown.  I've said this before in here - I know a lot people and I'm very tied in to Republicans in my state (CT).  I have only met 2 people in my life that I would say have antipathy towards blacks or hispanics.  That's it.  Many others are called racists, but if you listen carefully what they really want is an even playing field for everyone, and to judge people on the content of their character rather than the color of their skin.  Democrats don't understand this truth.  They are fundamentally incapable of understanding it.  Hearing them talk, you would sear that 50% of Republicans are avowed racists.  It's completely false.  "Basket of deplorables" indeed.
I strongly agree with most of this.  We're experiencing a very rapid political realignment, with Republicans becoming, essentially, a working-class party with conservative social values, and Democrats becoming the white-collar managerial class party with progressive social values.  If the GOP can dial back some of the rhetoric on Mexico and illegal immigration -- not converting to "open borders" but just not dehumanizing illegal immigrants like Trump did -- they can have a lot of success with that formula.  It's a winning coalition.

 
I strongly agree with most of this.  We're experiencing a very rapid political realignment, with Republicans becoming, essentially, a working-class party with conservative social values, and Democrats becoming the white-collar managerial class party with progressive social values.  If the GOP can dial back some of the rhetoric on Mexico and illegal immigration -- not converting to "open borders" but just not dehumanizing illegal immigrants like Trump did -- they can have a lot of success with that formula.  It's a winning coalition.
Ivan, do you really think that?  Or are you saying the voters in those party of from those “buckets”. None of the Republican policies outside of abortion are “working class” policies. They may talk a good game, but Elizabeth Warren, Bernie, AOC, and Porter seem to be the most “pro-working class” policy makers out there but bc they are “liberals” they are painted as something else. They seem to shine a light on where the game is really rigged and try to do something about it. Trump used the “game is rigged” line but never put any policies in motion to level the playing field. 
 

again, if you are talking about people, I get it. But actually “helping the working class”? I do not. 

 
Ivan, do you really think that?  Or are you saying the voters in those party of from those “buckets”.
Yes to both.  

None of the Republican policies outside of abortion are “working class” policies. They may talk a good game, but Elizabeth Warren, Bernie, AOC, and Porter seem to be the most “pro-working class” policy makers out there but bc they are “liberals” they are painted as something else. They seem to shine a light on where the game is really rigged and try to do something about it. Trump used the “game is rigged” line but never put any policies in motion to level the playing field. 
 

again, if you are talking about people, I get it. But actually “helping the working class”? I do not. 
Elizabeth Warren is a buffoon who thinks that food prices went up because grocery stores are greedy.  She can be safely dismissed at this point.  She's the kind of person that sounds like the Voice of the Common Man if you're an HR director. 

If you want to see a place where Republicans have credibly been advocates for working class people, look at schools.  By and large, with the caveat that we can both find exceptions that cut against this broad trend, Republican policy-makers placed a high priority on keeping schools open during the pandemic.  Democratic policy-makers (and especially their spokespeople in the media) treated this as something only slightly less objectionable than the Holocaust and did everything they could to keep them closed.  People noticed that. 

I honestly think Republicans, at least some of them, just lucked into that issue.  "Let's get schools back to normal" was, I think, just one part of a broad Republican push to deemphasize the pandemic, but I have to admit that that's slightly cynical even by my standards and maybe I'm not giving people like DeSantis enough credit, although having typed that sentence out and read it back out loud I think my cynicism is pretty well-founded.  But between the pandemic and all the race and gender stuff that progressives are strangely committed to putting in front of third graders, the GOP knows now that they can win on this.  

And of course that's just one part of it.  To go back to the pandemic, I think it's fair to say that in very broad terms, the Democrats were in favor of people staying home and Republicans were in favor of getting on with it.  "Stay at home" was wonderful for people like me, with white collar computer jobs that we can do from home.  It's not very helpful if you're a roofer.  Stuff like that matters a lot to people, way more than stupid rants that everybody can see are bull#### about how your local grocery store suddenly decided to start sticking it to you on milk and beef prices.

It's hard to tell blue-collar people that Republicans are rigging the game against them when Democrats are coddling white collar professionals like me and forgiving their kids' student loans.  It's going to take a while for people to forget about that past two years.      

 
I should add that the realignment that I'm talking about will leave me politically homeless, permanently.  I could pretty much 100% sign on to Reagan's platform.  But now neither party has anything resembling a commitment to limited government.  As a white-collar professional, I fit better in the Democratic party, and those are the sorts of people I live and work around.  But woke progressives are unpleasant and kind of racist, and the Republican party has a much healthier attitude about race, gender and sexuality than the Democrats.  

I really can't imagine casting a vote for a major-party candidate any time soon.  If Trump runs again, I'll give the Democratic nominee a hard look.  Otherwise I'll either vote L or just abstain.

 
There's a lot in here that's right (the bolded in particular) and lots that's wrong (or ignored).  It's easy to say "we should manufacture here", but it's not easy to make it happen.  What policies will make that happen and are those policies good for the working class?  Trump absolutely resonated with the working class, but he most certainly doesn't understand their struggles or how to make their lives better.  Nothing he did helped them.  Tariffs don't help.  Pissing on trade agreements doesn't help.  Screaming "foreign manufacturing bad!" doesn't help.

I also take issue with the idea that most Democrats think most Republicans are racist.  This isn't true, but it's what Trump, Fox News, and their ilk are pushing.  The constant meme is "this is what liberals think", and it's been that way since the early days of Rush Limbaugh.  It was practically Rush's catch-phrase.  It's easy to hate someone if you believe they hate you.


The US will never be able to compete with some of these foreign countries on manufacturing.  We have a Federal minimum wage and Unions.  

 
The US will never be able to compete with some of these foreign countries on manufacturing.  We have a Federal minimum wage and Unions.  
Yes, that's the point.  Ranting about "we need more manufacturing" may sound nice to former manufacturing workers in the heartland, but it doesn't actually create more domestic manufacturing.  Policies that do incentivize more domestic manufacturing are generally harmful to the overall economy.

 
I think the sad reality from reading the great posts in this thread from IK, gator, ek, and others is that it's a "win" for the citizens if the politicians even bother to talk to us or attempt to address those concerns.  I mean sad, because at the end of the day IMO it's all about classes and haves vs have nots, with the political tribes as the distraction.  Ik's example is a perfect one of the left pushing for student loan forgiveness.  That does zip for people really struggling who didn't have access to a college degree to boost earnings (not discounting the many people who have a degree and are also struggling) .  So to me its feels like the general population swings back and forth from D to R a bit based on who is trying to talk to them more, but ultimately few real solutions are enacted to actually help them out. 

 
I also take issue with the idea that most Democrats think most Republicans are racist.  This isn't true, but it's what Trump, Fox News, and their ilk are pushing.  The constant meme is "this is what liberals think", and it's been that way since the early days of Rush Limbaugh.  It was practically Rush's catch-phrase.  It's easy to hate someone if you believe they hate you.
Axios Poll - 61% of Democrats see Republicans as "racist/bigoted/sexist

PRRI Poll - 78% of Democrats believe the Republican Party has been taken over by racists

Trump and Fox News aren't pushing a false narrative here.  They are reacting to the narrative being pimped incessantly by Democrat politicians and the MSM.  I mean, come on dude. There's no denying this.

 
I should add that the realignment that I'm talking about will leave me politically homeless, permanently.  I could pretty much 100% sign on to Reagan's platform.  But now neither party has anything resembling a commitment to limited government.  As a white-collar professional, I fit better in the Democratic party, and those are the sorts of people I live and work around.  But woke progressives are unpleasant and kind of racist, and the Republican party has a much healthier attitude about race, gender and sexuality than the Democrats.  

I really can't imagine casting a vote for a major-party candidate any time soon.  If Trump runs again, I'll give the Democratic nominee a hard look.  Otherwise I'll either vote L or just abstain.
Yup. 

 
Yes, that's the point.  Ranting about "we need more manufacturing" may sound nice to former manufacturing workers in the heartland, but it doesn't actually create more domestic manufacturing.  Policies that do incentivize more domestic manufacturing are generally harmful to the overall economy.
I like the way trump framed it - not free trade - fair trade.  I've always thought it was a bad idea having so much of our manufacturing base halfway across the world, in a country that has as its stated goal to be the world's sole superpower.  We've seen several examples int he last 4 years where China has had us over a barrel - pharmaceuticals, semiconductors, 5G equipment...  Importing t-shirts and sneakers from China doesn’t threaten our national security.  I'm fine letting that kind of trade continue unmolested.  But we need to be more strategic in our relationship with China.  Stop giving away our trade secrets, and protect our advantages in quantum computing, artificial intelligence, autonomous drones...  China is cleaning our clock right now.  Their plan to overtake us by 2049 may actually happen by 2029.  In 1980 China’s total GDP was under $90 billion in current dollars. Today, it is over $12 trillion. The world has never seen such enormous economic growth in such a short time.

 
I like the way trump framed it - not free trade - fair trade.  I've always thought it was a bad idea having so much of our manufacturing base halfway across the world, in a country that has as its stated goal to be the world's sole superpower.  We've seen several examples int he last 4 years where China has had us over a barrel - pharmaceuticals, semiconductors, 5G equipment...  Importing t-shirts and sneakers from China doesn’t threaten our national security.  I'm fine letting that kind of trade continue unmolested.  But we need to be more strategic in our relationship with China.  Stop giving away our trade secrets, and protect our advantages in quantum computing, artificial intelligence, autonomous drones...  China is cleaning our clock right now.  Their plan to overtake us by 2049 may actually happen by 2029.  In 1980 China’s total GDP was under $90 billion in current dollars. Today, it is over $12 trillion. The world has never seen such enormous economic growth in such a short time.
I agree with much of this, but my point wasn't "we should manufacture certain things here".  The point was that it's one thing to say "China bad, make stuff here", and it's another thing to actually implement policies that help.  Trump did the first incessantly but never did anything that would help fix those issues.  Not that Democrats have done anything to solve those problems either, but Trump supporters need to stop pretending that shaking our fists and ranting is actually fixing anything.

 
Axios Poll - 61% of Democrats see Republicans as "racist/bigoted/sexist

PRRI Poll - 78% of Democrats believe the Republican Party has been taken over by racists

Trump and Fox News aren't pushing a false narrative here.  They are reacting to the narrative being pimped incessantly by Democrat politicians and the MSM.  I mean, come on dude. There's no denying this.
With all due respect, that Axios poll is a push poll designed to create exactly the type of response it did.  For one, it asked what "the other party" is, not whether individuals of the other party are largely X.  It also provided negative words and asked participants to choose one.  Ditto the PRRI poll; it asked about the party (i.e. politicians), not people.

Look, you want a real answer from a real liberal?  If I had to guess whether the majority of the MAGA base are racist, I'd answer "sure, probably".  Note the qualification of MAGA base there, though.  If you asked me whether the majority of the MAGA base are homophobic and transphobic, I'd answer "obviously".  Again, though, the qualifier of MAGA base is important here.  Folks like you, IvanK, and jm192 are conservative but you aren't the MAGA base.

 
With all due respect, that Axios poll is a push poll designed to create exactly the type of response it did.  For one, it asked what "the other party" is, not whether individuals of the other party are largely X.  It also provided negative words and asked participants to choose one.  Ditto the PRRI poll; it asked about the party (i.e. politicians), not people.

Look, you want a real answer from a real liberal?  If I had to guess whether the majority of the MAGA base are racist, I'd answer "sure, probably".  Note the qualification of MAGA base there, though.  If you asked me whether the majority of the MAGA base are homophobic and transphobic, I'd answer "obviously".  Again, though, the qualifier of MAGA base is important here.  Folks like you, IvanK, and jm192 are conservative but you aren't the MAGA base.
I agree with this.  Until 6 years ago I didn't really associate Republicans and racists.  Were racist groups much more likely to be Republican than Democrat - Yes.  But every time a David Duke type tried to endorse the Republican president, they would say no-thanks.  That is until Trump.  He welcomed them with open arms, and even emboldened them.

I'm not sure if the majority of the MAGA base is racist, but it seems to be a healthy percentage.  Or maybe it's just a very loud smaller percentage - but without anyone in the MAGA group disavowing them, it is really hard to tell.

 
I like the way trump framed it - not free trade - fair trade.  I've always thought it was a bad idea having so much of our manufacturing base halfway across the world, in a country that has as its stated goal to be the world's sole superpower.  We've seen several examples int he last 4 years where China has had us over a barrel - pharmaceuticals, semiconductors, 5G equipment...  Importing t-shirts and sneakers from China doesn’t threaten our national security.  I'm fine letting that kind of trade continue unmolested.  But we need to be more strategic in our relationship with China.  Stop giving away our trade secrets, and protect our advantages in quantum computing, artificial intelligence, autonomous drones...  China is cleaning our clock right now.  Their plan to overtake us by 2049 may actually happen by 2029.  In 1980 China’s total GDP was under $90 billion in current dollars. Today, it is over $12 trillion. The world has never seen such enormous economic growth in such a short time.
What are the practical consequences of China overtaking us?

I don’t have any great insight, but suspect not being the #1 superpower won’t relegate the US to insignificance. For most of us, we probably won’t notice, just as we didn’t notice China’s surge from $90B to $12T GDP.

 
What are the practical consequences of China overtaking us?

I don’t have any great insight, but suspect not being the #1 superpower won’t relegate the US to insignificance. For most of us, we probably won’t notice, just as we didn’t notice China’s surge from $90B to $12T GDP.
That's a very good thought, and I don't know the answer.  My concern with China is not so much that they become #1, but that they obtain a technological advantage that can be used to enforce their will on the rest of the world.  But then again, China has never been an empire-seeking culture like Japan or Russia, so I'm not sure they'd use their power for dominion.  They are such an interesting culture, so unique in the world.

 

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