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Do You Believe College Liberals Have Hijacked The Democratic Party? (5/19/22 7:43 PST) (1 Viewer)

GordonGekko

Footballguy
Direct Headline: David Shor: College liberals have hijacked the Democratic party

David Shor is not afraid to say the unsayable. As a Democratic party strategist, this trait has at times got him into trouble; last year, he was fired from his job at a progressive think tank for tweeting out a study that showed that nonviolent demonstrations were more effective than riots at pushing voter (behavior) in a Leftward direction in 1968.....But this has not stopped him from trying to deliver home truths to Democrats. For the past two years, he has made the case that the Party has lost touch with its working class base, and its relentless focus on identity issues has alienated moderate support. This is a near-heretical position to take in today’s Democratic circles, particularly from a self-described Leftist.....

...Shor goes further, arguing that the Democrat Party has become hijacked by white liberal college-educated activists whose interests and beliefs represent a tiny fraction of the country as a whole:

"College educated people have taken over the branding and issue (prioritization) of the Democratic Party, at the expense of working class white people who were in the party and working class non-white people who are in the party, and that’s driving people away. That’s really dangerous. Because in the Democratic Party, if you don’t have non-white conservatives, and you’re just a party of educated, white liberals, that gets you to 25%-30% of the vote....White people with a college degree who are under the age of 34 are less than 5% of the electorate, but they are literally a majority of people who work in politics…so I think it’s very easy for us to develop an inflated sense of how progressive the electorate is or how much people share our values....."

"....Because at the end of the day, the median voter is a 50-year-old without a college degree. And that means that every time you open your mouth, you should say, ‘is this something that a 50-year-old without a college degree will find compelling? Is it something that they’ll understand?’ And if not, you shouldn’t say it.…But the reality of the numbers is if you go and you ask a series of issue-questions on things like abortion, or taxes or whatever, only about 15% of the population agrees down the line with Democrats on every issue. The vast majority of people who vote for Democrats hold at least one major conservative policy position, whether it’s on taxes, whether it’s on social issues…It’s essential that we reverse education, (polarization), and win back a lot of these.....voters who have turned against the party....."

"......What’s funny about (Defund The Police) is that almost every black elected official in the country did not support defunding the police because younger African Americans and especially Hispanics do not support defunding the police..... But it still went up to the highest levels of journalism and advocacy discourse, because it was something that young, very affluent, white Leftists liked. And I think that’s cultural imperialism. We can’t let 1% of the population dictate what one of the major parties in the US thinks.....If you’re in a situation where 5% of the electorate has a college degree, trying to split on educational lines is a bad idea. Democrats tried it in 1972, and we got annihilated…What’s changed today is that as the country and as the world has become more educated, we’re now at a point where you can win a Democratic Primary,..... But we’re not yet at the point where something like that (educational voting divide) can win a national election...."

....Why it’s difficult for liberals to attract moderate support: "Our values are actually strange and foreign to swing voters. If they shared our values, they wouldn’t be swing voters — they would be liberals. So the only reason people ever supported us is because we talked about (non-polarizing) issues that appealed to normal people who didn’t share the commitments to solidarity and egalitarianism that activists had. We’ve lost that thread and…that’s turning a lot of people off...."

by Freddie Sayers/UnHerd Friday, 13 August 2021

https://unherd.com/thepost/david-shor-college-liberals-have-hijacked-the-democratic-party/

Direct Headline: New polling confirms Democrats’ left-leaning policies are out of touch

The Democratic Party is perceived by voters as being both ineffective and out of touch and, as a result, stands to suffer substantive seat losses in the midterm elections, new polling by Schoen Cooperman Research indicates....In order to have a fighting chance in the midterms — as well as a shot at holding on to the presidency in 2024 — Democrats need to embark on a broader course correction back to the center. The party needs to show voters that they are focused on solving problems and addressing quality-of-life issues and that they reject the progressive left’s embrace of big government spending and identity politics....

Indeed, a majority of voters (54 percent) — including 56 percent of independents — explicitly say that they want Biden and Democrats to move closer to the center and embrace more moderate policies versus embracing more liberal policies (18 percent) or staying where they are politically (13 percent). ....Most voters (61 percent) also agree that Biden and Democrats are “out of touch with hardworking Americans” and “have been so focused on catering to the far-left wing of the party that they’re ignoring Americans’ day to day concerns” such as “rising prices” and “(combating) violent crime.”.... 

....In addition to harboring negative views about the economy generally, two-thirds of voters (68 percent) blame the Biden administration’s policies for inflation either fully or partially.... Indeed, inflation — which is at its highest level in 40 years — is the top issue (51 percent) for voters, followed by the economy and creating jobs (32 percent).....As violent crime surges across the country — a trend that voters are nearly universally concerned about (85 percent) — by a 2-to-1 margin, voters blame Democrats over Republicans for rising crime rates (52 percent to 25 percent)....

....Collectively, our data paints a picture of a Democratic Party that is unable to connect with voters on basic “kitchen table” issues, namely the economy and crime.....Ultimately, if Democrats do not embrace a strategic shift to the political center, they risk historic defeats — worse than 1994 or 2010 — in this year’s midterm elections.....

by Douglas Schoen and Carly Cooperman - 03/13/22 9:01 AM ET

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/597987-new-polling-confirms-democrats-left-leaning-policies-are-out-of-touch/

Direct Headline: Why Dems Ought to Take a Cue from the GOP and Get Angry

To avoid a midterm wipeout, the party should focus less on dry policy issues and more on eliciting an emotional reaction....

For the fourth time in four years, Democrats are wondering how to grapple with the policy issue they believe will decide the next election....Politicians and political thinkers, particularly in liberal circles, often talk about elections and politics as if they are centered around a handful of core topics: the economy, health care, immigration, taxes. Voters don’t care about the day-to-day drama of Washington, D.C., this theory says. Instead, their attention is focused on an unchanging set of issues — mostly things that affect their personal lives. The way to win these voters over, the reasoning continues, is to propose policies that will address these core concerns.....

That means no self-respecting Democrat would be caught dead without a detailed policy platform. Media appearances and campaign ads are treated as opportunities to zero in on topics that “everyday Americans care about,” not to fulminate against opponents or pick culture-war battles. This produces campaigns built around sober, economically oriented and slightly dull themes: prescription drug pricing, or how many jobs a new law will produce..... Because policy is pragmatic and outcome-driven, urgent appeals to voters’ personal values are kept to a minimum. Democrats seem to assume their coalition is united more by their economic self-interest than by their moral commitments. But recent events should put that assumption in doubt......

Across the aisle, obviously, a different ethos has prevailed. Republicans have adopted an aggressive, freewheeling politics that tends to center anything sufficiently lurid, enraging, frightening or energizing: Socialism, “the caravan,” Ebola, Doctor Seuss, critical race theory. The list goes on and on. Outside of an effort to launch assaults along fault lines of race, gender, sexuality or age, there’s no consistent set of real-world issues or policies being addressed.....Where Democratic politics is characterized by a rigid left-brain approach that evaluates a list of issues and tries to prioritize each one in accordance to its presumed salience, the GOP in recent years has been pure right-brain: Emotion leads, everything else follows. One side’s tactics are highly structured. The other’s are postmodern, assuming that any narrative can be forced into political relevance, mostly by dint of being shouted about.....

If it were true that politics was about a small set of core policy issues, the Democratic approach would be clearly and unambiguously superior. After all, in many respects, it is the only party even attempting to tackle such concerns. In 2020, the Democratic Party platform ran for 92 pages and touched on every traditional policy issue in the country. Infamously, the GOP did not even produce a platform, instead releasing a one-page resolution professing (uncompromising) loyalty to Donald Trump and his aims, whatever those may have been.....More than anything else, the 2018 and 2020 results — and the freakish stability of Trump’s approval rating throughout his presidency — suggested that the main subject in U.S. politics since 2016 was not any policy issue, but Trump himself. A large number of Americans strongly supported the man; a somewhat larger number loathed him. Everything else in their voting behavior seemed to flow outward from that.....

Trump’s centrality to voters broke all the assumed rules. Here was an all-consuming political force, one that largely washed out the electoral effects of tumultuous real-world events....Yet, Trump shaped political reality. Few felt, or feel, indifferent....

Democrats face a dire midterm in 2022. If the party’s business-as-usual strategy keeps falling flat, it might be time to reflect on the success of the GOP’s political postmodernism. Democrats should consider that politics, rather than being about a short list of predetermined issues, can really be about anything at all. Political narratives don’t have to stick to tried-and-true positioning around health care, immigration or taxes. They just have to tell a good story......

None of this is to say that there’s a single right way for Democrats to stave off disaster in 2022. There is no formula here. Issue polls can give hints about the sort of political stories that might catch on, but they ultimately cannot predict the future. Audiences often don’t know what they’ll respond to until they see it. What’s more — as is obviously true in other mediums, but can be strangely overlooked in political campaigns — presentation is often as important as content..... Embedded in genuinely emotive language or evocative imagery, even standard talking points can suddenly become inspiring or thrillingly combative..... Democrats should remember this — and going forward, pursue a little more artistry and a little less math....

 by Will Stancil, policy researcher at the University of Minnesota 05/18/2022 11:26 AM EDT

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/05/18/democrats-less-boring-emotional-reaction-00033382

Direct Headline: Can Democrats win back working-class voters? Watch Ohio.

Few issues have vexed Democrats more than the long-running defection of White, working-class voters to the Republican Party.....In his victory speech Tuesday night, (JD)Vance said: “The people who are caught between the corrupt political class of the left and the right, they need a voice. They need a representative. And that’s going to be me.”...From the viewpoint of his campaign team, the core appeal will be to voters who they believe have lost trust and faith, who feel not just economically stressed but, more important, left behind and disrespected by the ruling political powers in Washington and the cultural and economic elite — what one Vance adviser called government, media, big business, universities and nonprofits.....“The middle class and working middle class feel like everyone has turned their back on them,.....It’s not just stupid decisions [by government and others]. It’s just, ‘You really don’t care about us.'"......

...(Tim) Ryan already has signaled in his ads how he hopes to do this. He will try to separate himself from those aspects of the Democratic Party that have alienated working-class voters. Beyond the issue of crime and funding the police, he will highlight problems on the border and the issue of immigration. He will run hard against China and free-trade pacts generally....Ryan also hopes to skirt the issue that has been a major reason Democrats have lost support among working-class voters. “You want culture wars? I’m not your guy,” .... But that doesn’t mean cultural issues won’t be part of the campaign and potentially to the detriment of the Democrat.....

Analysis by Dan Balz May 7, 2022 at 12:12 p.m. EDT

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/07/ohio-senate-race-sundaytake/

******

Is analyst David Shor correct? Is there a clear pathway and reality that just about 1 percent of American population dictates the entire Party apparatus platform and drive all it's public policies for the Democratic Party?

Consider the points that Shor makes that essentially casts him out as a babbling "radical" by the establishment Democrats, and ironically, the clearly woked out cancel culture induced identity politics driven radical left.

1) If the Democratic Party loses working class white voters and working class minority voters, you don't have the numbers to win a general election. You might take some primaries and lower seats down the ticket, but you don't have the raw numbers you need. This goes beyond partisan divide and is a simple math problem. Team Blue seems intent on pissing off the kind of voters it needs the most with it's hard push for culture wars and identity politics above all else.

2) College (over) educated liberal whites under the age of 34 represent the heavy lifting of all people who actually work in professional politics. Thus you have the conflict that Elon Musk talks about when you have a group running policy that is both too old at the top ( out of touch with working class reality) and too young at the bottom ( activists without life experience but only from a very very very small subset of the entire range of interests and viewpoints of all Americans.) And those viewpoints tend to ignore the core needs of every day working class Americans. This has lent to the rise of the "New Right" by upstarts like JD Vance, who have gained populist appeal by many who have come to terms that the current political establishment has completely abandoned them.

3) To win national elections, the reality is the average voter is not college educated. And you have to actually appeal to everyday people, especially moderates and those in the center whom are not in your ideological camp. You need to talk plain and talk simple and talk practical needs for every day people and you need to deliver on your promises to them. Because all polling ( look a the SCR polling data I presented above) indicates that the average everyday working class non college educated American citizen does not believe the Democratic Party cares about and delivers wins for the things they find critical - like civil order, safety in the streets, good paying jobs, affordable housing, and what they see at the grocery store and gas pumps. And who can blame them?

Think about how far to the left that Team Blue overall has gone to cast out some basic political and practical realities by David Shor as some kind of "right wing only talking point/propaganda".

This is something Ben Shapiro points out is a consistent zealot induced toxic self destructive behavior by Team Blue - the insistence that everything the GOP brings up must be dogmatically opposed, up to even using open violence, even if it's something that would help the every day American and even if it's something the every day working class Americans want and need.

I bring up the article hosted by Politico that the only way Team Blue can win the Mid Terms is to "tell a better story" and "don't focus on core policy but drive artistic emotional reactions" mostly because the Democratic Party's platforms are "too smart" for the average American.  Disgusting and elitist takes. Will Stancil, who penned the article, is EXACTLY the kind of young over educated white liberal in a privilege bubble that Shor is talking about and denouncing. Stancil believes the American people will be swayed by "moral principles" over economic ones. And that might be the case in his little sealed off insular community of fellow activist college liberals from affluent families but not in line with the brutal reality on the ground for working class Americans who are a paycheck and a half away from being homeless. When has the last time someone like Stancil, or his peer group, waited in line at a food bank because he was desperately hungry? Or had to pick a choice between filling up a gas tank but not being able to afford needed medications? Or consider that after a lifetime of working hard, and "playing by the rules" and paying into the "system", that he might not be able to ever retire? You know what someone like Stancil refuses to discuss? How about just plain delivering wins for the American people and make their lives better and then they'll want to vote for you? How about something as damn simple at that?

When do a small group of smug tone deaf activists become so detached from day to day working class reality that they look like social and cultural terrorists to the masses who are just trying to feed their kids and keep a roof over their heads at night?

Consider this quote by a working class every day American about their views on the drive for identity politics over public safety and basic economic stability -

"The (Democratic Party) is viciously insane. Republicans aren’t great either, but they don’t scare me as much as (Team Blue) does. I voted for Trump during the last election because I’d rather vote for a man half of America hates than for a Party that hates me."

Do you believe college liberals have hijacked the Democratic Party as David Shor has discussed? Why or why not?

I'll leave this here for others to discuss.

*EDIT: Changed thread title from "David Shor: College Liberals Have Hijacked The Democratic Party (5/19/22 7:43 PST)" to "Do You Believe College Liberals Have Hijacked The Democratic Party? (5/19/22 7:43 PST)"

 
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I can see why Shor was fired from his job at a progressive think tank. Maybe he had trouble understanding all those big words that his coworkers with a college degree used. 😄

 
I had to google David Shor, are we talking about the guy who graduated HS in 9th grade and had his college degree at 17?   is this the guy that has problems with big words?


More like a problem with people who are college educated and this fits well into the conservative meme discussed in other threads of so-called liberal indoctrination at colleges and universities. 

 
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I don't get the purpose of posting an interesting topic, providing decent links/quotes, and then writing paragraphs of garage commentary that don't inspire/encourage reasonable discussion. 
He's right though.

Say you're a progressive Democrat.  You really didn't like Trump.  The events of 1/6 confirmed everything you believed about the Republican party.  And in the year and a half since then, the GOP has just continued right along with being both a direct threat to democracy and also openly embracing white nationalism, including stuff like replacement theory.  Just really vile stuff.

But then you look at polling data and see that that same party that seems so obviously terrible is poised to not just pick up a few seats here and there, but is looking pretty likely to completely remove congressional democrats from power.  And Biden while there's still time to turn it around, Biden looks like a goner if he even runs again, which is no sure thing because everyone knows that he's going to get trounced.

And part of the reason why the evil, racist GOP is storming back is because they're picking up more votes from Hispanic and Asian voters.  The party that just can't shut up about how much it dislikes Mexicans is actually in pretty good shape to pick up around half or so of the Latino vote.  

Doesn't that tell you something about the state of the Democratic party these days?  How are you losing to these guys?

 
I mean, if I spent the last six years running around screaming about white nationalism and the death of democracy and what have you, and I was about to get my clock cleaned fair and square, I would consider that cause for a little introspection.  But that's just me.  By all means, keep up the self-righteousness.  Maybe it will work out for you.

 
I don't get the purpose of posting an interesting topic, providing decent links/quotes, and then writing paragraphs of garage commentary that don't inspire/encourage reasonable discussion. 


I have never felt that the purpose of any of the treads by this poster is to inspire or encourage reasonable discussion. Or at least if that is the goal it does not seem to have succeeded that well IMO.  I think there is just too much information presented for most folks to read, comprehend and then respond to the multiple assertions made and questions asked. 

 
I couldn't help but get irritated by Stancil's tropes about left-brain and right-brain and Democrats being policy wonks that are just too educated for the average voter. Gekko then sort of covered it. My take? 

Hey, when all your education is leading you to testify in front of Congress that men can get pregnant, you've got a huge, huge issue on your hands and it might just be that you're out of touch with any reality. You might be the one appealing to emotions and hopes rather than understandable logic and facts.

I've noticed an interesting phenomenon. The right lost culture war issue after culture war issue when the more radical elements of those culture wars were not discussed. The right was above discussing the leftist fringes of the culture wars precisely because they were too polite to get a little muddy. They suffered defeat after defeat. But in the past six years, once they began to fight university wars and practices out in the open, they received the greatest gift a party like that could ever receive. They gained the ever-convenient and lucrative strange bedfellows. People who up until now hadn't known what they were teaching in the universities and schools. Sure, you heard about it when the kids came home from college that first semester and little Susie's first Women's Studies class had her hating her entrepreneur father and everything he stood for, but that only happened in other families, and if it did happen, that was a function of academic superiority over the work-a-day schmuck's life. But now, the activists had taken it to the high schools, to the middle schools, and even to the elementary schools. There was no getting away from it. So Republicans fought back. 

And they're winning these wars, strangely. It'll be interesting to see how the Party takes on "woke capital," the media, and academia. I sort of shudder, because the lines drawn are stark and the fights themselves aren't good for the country. But that seems to be the way we're headed. But don't let Stancil tell you that somehow these activists aren't appealing to emotion as policy all the way down. To the contrary, they've been starting from hopes and dreams and ending at policy that befits those emotions. 

 
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I mean, if I spent the last six years running around screaming about white nationalism and the death of democracy and what have you, and I was about to get my clock cleaned fair and square, I would consider that cause for a little introspection.  But that's just me.  By all means, keep up the self-righteousness.  Maybe it will work out for you.
According to FBG libs it's merely a messaging problem...  :rolleyes:

 
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Seems fairly obvious to me that it is a messaging problem.  The right has managed to successfully paint a tiny minority of far-left crazies as representative of "the left" while simultaneously successfully painting the democracy-denying majority of it's own party as fringe.


How about that.  One size DOES fit all:

Seems fairly obvious to me that it is a messaging problem.  The left has managed to successfully paint a tiny minority of far-right crazies as representative of "the right" while simultaneously successfully painting the democracy-denying majority of it's own party as fringe.

That fits....like a glove!  

 
Seems fairly obvious to me that it is a messaging problem.  The right has managed to successfully paint a tiny minority of far-left crazies as representative of "the left" while simultaneously successfully painting the democracy-denying majority of it's own party as fringe.
You'd think with all those liberal arts degrees that getting a message across wouldn't be an issue.

 
Do you believe college liberals have hijacked the Democratic Party as David Shor has discussed? Why or why not?

I'll leave this here for others to discuss.


No.  The fact that Biden is in power means the establishment liberals are still in charge.  Somehow they have figured out a way to keep their Trumps in mostly in check.

“The middle class and working middle class feel like everyone has turned their back on them,.....It’s not just stupid decisions [by government and others]. It’s just, ‘You really don’t care about us.'"......


Above is the key point.  This applies to both parties.  These people are like tennis balls the two parties hit back and forth.

 
I have never felt that the purpose of any of the treads by this poster is to inspire or encourage reasonable discussion. Or at least if that is the goal it does not seem to have succeeded that well IMO.  I think there is just too much information presented for most folks to read, comprehend and then respond to the multiple assertions made and questions asked. 
I honestly don't read any post if it's more than a paragraph or two.....who has time for that ####?  

I found this one very interesting though.  It makes a lot of sense and lines up with what I see in my day to day.

 
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I honestly don't read any post if it's more than a paragraph or two.....who has time for that ####?  

I found this one very interesting though.  It makes a lot of sense and lines up with what I see in my day to day.


Elon Musk says the US has 'very, very ancient leadership,' believes there's 'a serious issue with gerontocracy' in many countries

"I don't think we should try to have people live for a really long time....That it would cause asphyxiation of society because the truth is, most people don't change their mind. They just die....So if they don't die, we will be stuck with old ideas and society wouldn't advance."

"I think we already have quite a serious issue with gerontocracy, where the leaders of so many countries are extremely old.....In the US, it's a very, very ancient leadership. And it is just impossible to stay in touch with the people if you are many generations older than them.....The founders of the USA put minimum ages for a local office. But they did not put maximum ages because they did not expect that people will be living so long. They should have. Because for a democracy to function, the leaders must be reasonably in touch with the bulk of the population. And if you're too young or too old, you can't say that you will be attached."

Musk said that he'd like to see political leaders "be ideally within 10 or at least, 20 years of the average age of the population."

John L. Dorman Mar 26, 2022, 12:40 PM

https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-us-has-ancient-leadership-innovation-gerontocracy-2022-3

*****

Two interesting observations.

1) David Shor's point about a majority of those working in professional politics are young white liberal college grads is reinforced by the extremely hard push from Team Blue for Biden to enact "student loan forgiveness" via Executive Order. Since young white liberal college grads are also heavily infused in Big Social Media, Big Tech, the MSM and Hollywood, it's no wonder that this bombardment is coming from all directions at the general population.

2) Something I pointed out in the original post is Elon Musk's perspective of the danger of leadership that is too old ( Biden) that is out of touch with the average American and also anyone who is too young ( these countless college educated liberals that Shor talks about that are big on theory but woefully short on life experience and widespread perspective)

One could argue that that Musk points out the danger of each separately but the current situation is actually where BOTH DANGERS are happening at the same time. On one hand you have Biden as the "too old" threat point. Then you have those like Will Stancil in the Politico article in the OP as "too young/not enough practical experience" threat point on the other side.

Give it some thought, let me know what you think about those points. Again, this topic has some pretty complex nuance to it.

 
This David Shor guy gets it!
I see a Democrat that most Democrats hate that gets it too. Sen Manchin. I hear constant complaints about him from progressive Democrats but his opposition to many parts  of BBB probably saved the Democrats from really screwing things up. 

 
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I don't get the purpose of posting an interesting topic, providing decent links/quotes, and then writing paragraphs of garage commentary that don't inspire/encourage reasonable discussion. 


VIDEO: Students Support Socialism... Until It's Applied To Their GPA Mar 29, 2019

Would college students support a policy that would force those with high GPAs to donate part of their own GPA to help those with lower grades?

https://youtu.be/yCPcM8GlptM?t=19

VIDEO: Students want loan debt forgiveness...but do they support increased tuition to pay for it? Jan 9, 2020

https://youtu.be/vQaDbA3-0dY?t=12

VIDEO: Students Love Medicare For All... Until Hearing What's Actually In It Dec 9, 2019

College students in Washington, D.C. were quick to offer their support for Medicare For All... until they learned what's actually in it:

https://youtu.be/V8EOcRIduP8?t=18

*******

"…But the reality of the numbers is if you go and you ask a series of issue-questions on things like abortion, or taxes or whatever, only about 15% of the population agrees down the line with Democrats on every issue. The vast majority of people who vote for Democrats hold at least one major conservative policy position, whether it’s on taxes, whether it’s on social issues…It’s essential that we reverse education, (polarization), and win back a lot of these.....voters who have turned against the party....."

^

This is what David Shor had to say about the practical make up of most voters. I've said this before, most Conservatives will likely have one or two major stances that will run what is normally seen as traditionally liberal and many Traditional Liberals will likely have a stance or two that will be seen as classically Conservative.

The Campus Reform videos shows EXACTLY what Team Blue aims their sights on indoctrinating Big Education across all levels. It also explains why there are so many purity tests and so much punishment for deviating even slightly from the core very narrow "ideological" acceptable stance.

That kind of rigid methodology only holds if your core voter base are typically low information voters. The videos above show college students who are low information and soon to be brand new voters. As more information is presented to them, the context changes, the dynamics change. But that context doesn't exist if the school curriculum and teaching points and culture is cooked to only achieve some bizarre radical purity for a far fetched liberal utopia that doesn't exist.

But as those students get out into the work force, the dynamics change again. It's easy to lean socialist when you are in college and you don't have to grind 40-50 hours a week to scratch out a living. But once you suffer check to check and hand to mouth for a while, those concepts tend to fade quickly. But not for the privileged who stay in that academic/insular bubble. If you graduate college and go work for Twitter, then you simply leave one college environment for a proxy for a new college like environment. And this is what Shor is talking about, it's these folks who are in a leverage position to push policy for the Democratic Party when they don't represent the full interests of most working class American citizens at the ground level across the entire nation.

"Reasonable Discussion" is here if people want it. But some don't want it. They want to not read anything and then immediately go on the attack simply because I said it, and I need to be punished because I'm a Conservative and I've spent the least year and a half saying things that the radical left here can't actually refute. All they can do is try to game the Report Button and see if they can incite me to try to get me banned to silence me.

You came here to provoke me or try to do it. I came here to provoke thought.

That's why I can't be silenced.

“In order to be able to think, you have to risk being offensive.”
― Jordan B. Peterson

 
VIDEO: Students Support Socialism... Until It's Applied To Their GPA Mar 29, 2019

Would college students support a policy that would force those with high GPAs to donate part of their own GPA to help those with lower grades?

https://youtu.be/yCPcM8GlptM?t=19

VIDEO: Students want loan debt forgiveness...but do they support increased tuition to pay for it? Jan 9, 2020

https://youtu.be/vQaDbA3-0dY?t=12

VIDEO: Students Love Medicare For All... Until Hearing What's Actually In It Dec 9, 2019

College students in Washington, D.C. were quick to offer their support for Medicare For All... until they learned what's actually in it:

https://youtu.be/V8EOcRIduP8?t=18

*******

"…But the reality of the numbers is if you go and you ask a series of issue-questions on things like abortion, or taxes or whatever, only about 15% of the population agrees down the line with Democrats on every issue. The vast majority of people who vote for Democrats hold at least one major conservative policy position, whether it’s on taxes, whether it’s on social issues…It’s essential that we reverse education, (polarization), and win back a lot of these.....voters who have turned against the party....."

^

This is what David Shor had to say about the practical make up of most voters. I've said this before, most Conservatives will likely have one or two major stances that will run what is normally seen as traditionally liberal and many Traditional Liberals will likely have a stance or two that will be seen as classically Conservative.

The Campus Reform videos shows EXACTLY what Team Blue aims their sights on indoctrinating Big Education across all levels. It also explains why there are so many purity tests and so much punishment for deviating even slightly from the core very narrow "ideological" acceptable stance.

That kind of rigid methodology only holds if your core voter base are typically low information voters. The videos above show college students who are low information and soon to be brand new voters. As more information is presented to them, the context changes, the dynamics change. But that context doesn't exist if the school curriculum and teaching points and culture is cooked to only achieve some bizarre radical purity for a far fetched liberal utopia that doesn't exist.

But as those students get out into the work force, the dynamics change again. It's easy to lean socialist when you are in college and you don't have to grind 40-50 hours a week to scratch out a living. But once you suffer check to check and hand to mouth for a while, those concepts tend to fade quickly. But not for the privileged who stay in that academic/insular bubble. If you graduate college and go work for Twitter, then you simply leave one college environment for a proxy for a new college like environment. And this is what Shor is talking about, it's these folks who are in a leverage position to push policy for the Democratic Party when they don't represent the full interests of most working class American citizens at the ground level across the entire nation.

"Reasonable Discussion" is here if people want it. But some don't want it. They want to not read anything and then immediately go on the attack simply because I said it, and I need to be punished because I'm a Conservative and I've spent the least year and a half saying things that the radical left here can't actually refute. All they can do is try to game the Report Button and see if they can incite me to try to get me banned to silence me.

You came here to provoke me or try to do it. I came here to provoke thought.

That's why I can't be silenced.

“In order to be able to think, you have to risk being offensive.”
― Jordan B. Peterson


Speaking as someone who is a registered independent and agrees with different policy positions in each party, my point is that I think your commentary (more specifically, maybe it's the tone of your commentary) mostly appeals to the same demographic that consume Hannity and Tucker's content.  And I don't know...maybe that's you're goal...just don't be surprised by the lack of meaningful discussion from others that don't share your political views.  

 
One could argue that that Musk points out the danger of each separately but the current situation is actually where BOTH DANGERS are happening at the same time. On one hand you have Biden as the "too old" threat point. Then you have those like Will Stancil in the Politico article in the OP as "too young/not enough practical experience" threat point on the other side.

Give it some thought, let me know what you think about those points. Again, this topic has some pretty complex nuance to it.
The "too old" part is a different issue, but I've noticed the "too young" part a lot more in recent years.  It increasingly feels like decisions are being made and conversations are being driven by people who haven't really done anything yet. 

I don't mean that they haven't built multinational businesses from scratch or planned an amphibious invasion of Europe or anything like that.  I mean that they haven't successfully found a mate or raised children.  They've never even interviewed for a job that doesn't involve some form of activism, where they're actually expected to show up at an agreed-upon time and do something boring in exchange for money that they can use to pursue their self-chosen life goals.  Their "careers" at this point are really just a form of extended play time.  They have not-very-well-paying jobs in high-cost-of-living cities, so they can't afford to buy a house and miss out on the opportunities to grow up that come from having a few shingles blow off in a windstorm or having your basement flood when the snow melts off too suddenly.  They've never been on the other side of the interview table, where they have to hire somebody who they will depend on for their own professional success.  They've definitely never been on the other side of the other table, the one where you pass another person a letter from HR informing them that we're not renewing their contract.  

People under 30 can be really bright and they do a lot of really good work.  It's hard for them to be wise.  

Under normal circumstances, that would all be fine.  Nobody in human history has ever thought that young adults were especially wise.  Traditionally our society has done exactly what we should do with people in the 20s and 30s -- put them into jobs that reward skill and talent, let them work, and let the people with a little more life experience drive the bus.  That's fair, because everybody is 28 at some point in their life, and you'll have your turn to be 45 soon enough.  And trust me, when you're 45 you'll look back on your 28 year-old self as a doe-eyed innocent who saw a world filled with rainbows and unicorns, and you'll be glad that nobody asked you to run anything important when you were young and stupid.  But for some reason we've decided to let these people run things anyway, and it's going about as well as one would expect.  

And it isn't like it's just 20- or 30-somethings here.  Even among grown, mature adults, I notice a massive disparity in terms of how sophisticated people are in understanding how human organizations work.  You see it on this board all the time, and it cuts across political lines.  There's a certain type of person who thinks that the way organizations work is that the guy in charge makes a decision and everybody gets on board and works in harmony to move forward as one.  The idea that organizations might misfire for a bunch of reasons that have nothing to do with anyone being evil, and that maybe we should think carefully about that possibility before we go knocking down guardrails and blazing off into uncharted territory just never even occurs to them.  

Of course, the nice thing about being older is that you have the financial freedom to not have to worry too much about any of this.  I work in an industry where everything moves at a glacial pace, and I already have a small list of very long-term projects that I'm involved in but probably won't be around for when they wrap up.  It's actually kind of refreshing to know that certain problems will be somebody else's problem to worry about, not mine.  I think it allows a person to evaluate things a little more objectively when you can accurately say "This isn't going to affect me much, if at all, personally."  

 
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I've noticed an interesting phenomenon. The right lost culture war issue after culture war issue when the more radical elements of those culture wars were not discussed. The right was above discussing the leftist fringes of the culture wars precisely because they were too polite to get a little muddy. They suffered defeat after defeat. But in the past six years, once they began to fight university wars and practices out in the open, they received the greatest gift a party like that could ever receive. They gained the ever-convenient and lucrative strange bedfellows. People who up until now hadn't known what they were teaching in the universities and schools. Sure, you heard about it when the kids came home from college that first semester and little Susie's first Women's Studies class had her hating her entrepreneur father and everything he stood for, but that only happened in other families, and if it did happen, that was a function of academic superiority over the work-a-day schmuck's life. But now, the activists had taken it to the high schools, to the middle schools, and even to the elementary schools. There was no getting away from it. So Republicans fought back. 

And they're winning these wars, strangely. 
Same, and I'm not sure what to make of this either.  I'm used to seeing conservative types get trucked on these issues over and over again, whether it's rock music or violent video games or gay marriage or whatever -- they always lose, and they always come off looking kind of stupid for having made a big deal out of this stuff in the first place.  Now all of the sudden they're winning, decisively in some cases.  

I have a few competing hypotheses floating around in the back of mind, none of them very well-formed.  This could be a short-run reactionary blip in what woke leftists think as the arc of progress.  It could be a natural reaction to wild overreach on the part of work leftists.  It could be that independents thought that getting Trump out of office would bring back a little normalcy, and now they're mad at leftists for not doing their part by being normal, and a more normal administration will result in the resumption of the usual pattern of social conservatives getting owned.  It may be that I'm not the only person who thinks that our major institutions need some housecleaning.  It could be an assortment of those things, or something else entirely.  I don't really know at this point.  It's strange though.

 
Same, and I'm not sure what to make of this either.  I'm used to seeing conservative types get trucked on these issues over and over again, whether it's rock music or violent video games or gay marriage or whatever -- they always lose, and they always come off looking kind of stupid for having made a big deal out of this stuff in the first place.  Now all of the sudden they're winning, decisively in some cases.  

I have a few competing hypotheses floating around in the back of mind, none of them very well-formed.  This could be a short-run reactionary blip in what woke leftists think as the arc of progress.  It could be a natural reaction to wild overreach on the part of work leftists.  It could be that independents thought that getting Trump out of office would bring back a little normalcy, and now they're mad at leftists for not doing their part by being normal, and a more normal administration will result in the resumption of the usual pattern of social conservatives getting owned.  It may be that I'm not the only person who thinks that our major institutions need some housecleaning.  It could be an assortment of those things, or something else entirely.  I don't really know at this point.  It's strange though.


My opinion is that it's a combination of the reasons you noted and media being much more effective in influencing on these social issues.

 
Same, and I'm not sure what to make of this either.  I'm used to seeing conservative types get trucked on these issues over and over again, whether it's rock music or violent video games or gay marriage or whatever -- they always lose, and they always come off looking kind of stupid for having made a big deal out of this stuff in the first place.  Now all of the sudden they're winning, decisively in some cases.
It isn't really hard to win the fight against crazies saying men can get pregnant. 

Or people telling you something is peaceful while stuff is on fire behind them. 

If the GOP didn't have so many old codgers on the team they would wipe the floor with these goofballs.

 
Also the defense of all of these insane issues doesn't help their case. You can see Rich tried to do it up above. Rather than address the insanity they try to make a big deal out of you addressing the insanity. 

The standard rebuttal is how it isn't really happening, it is just fringe, but stop pouncing on it!

 
The "College Liberal wing" of the Democratic Party is in control.  Their driving issues don't mesh well with the needs and concerns of the Average Joe.  In particular Asian and Hispanic cultures have strands in them that are conservative in nature.  For instance, Catholic values run deep in the Hispanic community, even among non-church goers.  This doesn't align well with the free abortion and LGBTQ+ agendas.  Throw in free things like college debt forgiveness, and it becomes a hard sell to the Catholic influenced Hispanic that works a manual labor job and whose kids are going to have a hard time going to college.  Same with many Asian communities where hard work and family is valued.  That just isn't the Democratic message right now. 

 
Just look at the school board meetings where the school board is cringing listening to the books being read. Pounding gavels trying to shut up the women reading the books. 

They know they can't actually be on the side of removing this insane material because they know the drag queen story hour people would have a hissy fit. But they don't want to support the material on its own merits, because it has no merits. They just want you to shut up. 

 
It isn't really hard to win the fight against crazies saying men can get pregnant. 

Or people telling you something is peaceful while stuff is on fire behind them. 

If the GOP didn't have so many old codgers on the team they would wipe the floor with these goofballs.


I am sure she doesn't really believe that. She was playing a semantics game with her questioners.

 
Just look at the school board meetings where the school board is cringing listening to the books being read. Pounding gavels trying to shut up the women reading the books. 

They know they can't actually be on the side of removing this insane material because they know the drag queen story hour people would have a hissy fit. But they don't want to support the material on its own merits, because it has no merits. They just want you to shut up. 
There is definitely a "MESSAGE".  Deviation from the "MESSAGE" brings scorn and attacks of racism and prejuduce.  That happens in the party itself.  

 
Seems fairly obvious to me that it is a messaging problem.  The right has managed to successfully paint a tiny minority of far-left crazies as representative of "the left" while simultaneously successfully painting the democracy-denying majority of it's own party as fringe.


someone mentioned this already, but it's amazing how the crazies in our own party are actually just a minor fringe element with no real power whose influence is being wildly exaggerated by the opposition for fear-mongering and political gain. Meanwhile it's an ironclad fact that those other guys' party has been completely hijacked by the crazies on their side who are bent on nothing less than the total destruction of our democratic freedoms and way of life.

 
The "College Liberal wing" of the Democratic Party is in control.  Their driving issues don't mesh well with the needs and concerns of the Average Joe.  In particular Asian and Hispanic cultures have strands in them that are conservative in nature.  For instance, Catholic values run deep in the Hispanic community, even among non-church goers.  This doesn't align well with the free abortion and LGBTQ+ agendas.  Throw in free things like college debt forgiveness, and it becomes a hard sell to the Catholic influenced Hispanic that works a manual labor job and whose kids are going to have a hard time going to college.  Same with many Asian communities where hard work and family is valued.  That just isn't the Democratic message right now. 
Oh and throw in the part of the "MESSAGE"  where white people are the cultural "OPPRESSOR" and micro aggressions are a thing. It is a very hard sell. 

 
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Also the defense of all of these insane issues doesn't help their case. You can see Rich tried to do it up above. Rather than address the insanity they try to make a big deal out of you addressing the insanity. 

The standard rebuttal is how it isn't really happening, it is just fringe, but stop pouncing on it!
The thing is that this strategy -- denying that the thing that is obviously happening is actually happening -- can work for a while.  "Actually, men can get pregnant" is such an obviously crazy viewpoint that when you try to explain it to a normal person who doesn't live on the internet, they understandably think that you're exaggerating or just making it up or something.  When a person with a credential comes along and says reassuringly that no, this isn't in schools and isn't being taught to future teachers and isn't being used as the basis for curriculum, you naturally tend to assume that they're telling you the truth because the alternative is difficult to believe.  These folks had a lot of success with that particular play.  It helped them take control of these institutions in the first place.  

The problem is that eventually the gaslighting stops working, and then people just completely tune you out from that point on, because you've shown yourself to be acting in bad faith ("this thing isn't happening") as well as being a little crazy ("actually, men can get pregnant").  It's hard to explain how a guy like DeSantis can completely dog-walk Disney in the state of Florida without seeing this as a case of people deciding to collectively ignore the gaslighters altogether.

 
someone mentioned this already, but it's amazing how the crazies in our own party are actually just a minor fringe element with no real power whose influence is being wildly exaggerated by the opposition for fear-mongering and political gain. Meanwhile it's an ironclad fact that those other guys' party has been completely hijacked by the crazies on their side who are bent on nothing less than the total destruction of our democratic freedoms and way of life.
Poll after poll after poll shows that more than 50% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen, despite zero evidence.  The Republican National Committee passed a resolution referring to the events of Jan 6 as legitimate political discourse (before attempting to walk it back).  This really isn't debatable.

 
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someone mentioned this already, but it's amazing how the crazies in our own party are actually just a minor fringe element with no real power whose influence is being wildly exaggerated by the opposition for fear-mongering and political gain. Meanwhile it's an ironclad fact that those other guys' party has been completely hijacked by the crazies on their side who are bent on nothing less than the total destruction of our democratic freedoms and way of life.
LMAO. The far Left crazies completely hijacked the BBB bill. And almost took down the bipartisan infrastructure bill with it.

 
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someone mentioned this already, but it's amazing how the crazies in our own party are actually just a minor fringe element with no real power whose influence is being wildly exaggerated by the opposition for fear-mongering and political gain. Meanwhile it's an ironclad fact that those other guys' party has been completely hijacked by the crazies on their side who are bent on nothing less than the total destruction of our democratic freedoms and way of life.
This is a good post, and there's a lot of truth here.

The really terrible thing is that both sides are wrong about the crazies on their side, and they're both right about the crazies on the other side.  

 

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