Defensive managerial moves - what's your philosophy? (2 Viewers)

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Some managers make moves only to help their team. We see all kinds of topics about who to start or who to pick up.

Some managers maneuver to hinder others teams. 

Do you play defense with FA pickups?

For example, if you've got a roster spot to play with & your opponent loses a QB before playing you, would you grab a 3rd QB if it meant forcing your upcoming opponent to pick up a sub-par player?

what's your philosophy? 

 

[DirtyCashDylan]

of course! as long as you hold that player through the game then it's fair game. Some leagues you can pick up a guy and then immediately drop him and he goes to waivers so you could cycle through 7 QBs and send them all to waivers so your opponent cant grab one. That's bs. 

 

[ConnSKINS26]

I only play dynasty, so drops have to be considered more carefully. But still, in leagues where I'm top-heavy with most of my value in my lineup and I have more bench spots to churn for lottery tickets, I will use some spots "defensively" if I have room. I play in deeper leagues where not a scrap of potential young talent is available unless it really comes out of nowhere. Leagues where guys like Austin Ekeler and Elijhaa Penny have been rostered for a couple of weeks...just in case. So usually only below-average vets are on the wire, if anything. Roster cloggers. But sometimes I'll make a defensive move. I do this with starting QB's, the (mostly/usually) trash types like Keenum/Brissett/Glennon. A lot of teams get away with rostering only two QB's, so these kinds of guys can have sudden value if there's an injury or an unplanned for bye week. Doesn't happen often, but then I don't waste roster spots like this often. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

of course! as long as you hold that player through the game then it's fair game. Some leagues you can pick up a guy and then immediately drop him and he goes to waivers so you could cycle through 7 QBs and send them all to waivers so your opponent cant grab one. That's bs. 

Agreed, and I would never advocate such a thing. We have rules against waiver chrurn. 

 

[TripleThreat]

I"m more of a combination of both... Constant churn, playing the upside lottery.  This time of year grabbing handcuffs is almost necessary...it's a war of attrition.  

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

FF isn't rotisserie baseball. It's a series of head-to-head matchups.

If you're aren't thinking defensively with regard to your opponents, or those teams ahead of you in the standings, you're doing it wrong.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I kind of don’t pay too much attention to my league mates rosters. I’m content just trying to optimize my own.

By this time of year I hope my lineup is solidified, and the bottom of my roster is filled with young guys with upside if given the opportunity. We are 12x16 with two IR spots, start 10. The WW is almost exclusively guys with a known past & little chance of morphing into something else (e.g., nobody put in a claim for Mercedes Lewis this week.)

I’m not philosophically opposed to blocking but it’s wasting a slot on the roster which could be filled with a RB handcuff or a young WR developing his craft. Patience with both can lead to some monster gems in November & December.

 

[BobbyLayne]

FF isn't rotisserie baseball. It's a series of head-to-head matchups.

If you're aren't thinking defensively with regard to your opponents, or those teams ahead of you in the standings, you're doing it wrong.

I used to think this way years ago. It’s the unpredictable nature of FF that makes it kind of difficult to accurately predict your block is going to have the desired effect.

Let’s take last week. Your hypothetical opponent drafted a couple early season underperforming WRs along with Cobb. You observe he’s in shambles & shrewdly pick up Lockett cheap & spend a chunk on JJ Nelson. You blocking genius, you! Poor guy had to pickup (& start) Geronimo Allison. WTG, Copernicus.

Or go through the same exercise for QB or TE, in which you “force” your opponent to start Case Keenum, or he’s so frustrated at the TE he starts a guy who hasn’t caught a pass all year (Mercedes.)

These are academic examples but it happened in actual league games often enough I decided to stop trying to control things I cannot (other people’s rosters.)

 

[Jayded]

I do so must less week to week, but am more opportunistic about bye week management than my peers. Like everyone else, I split my draft thoughts between who I want badly and bye weeks and note sometimes I'll have to deal with it later, but find most of my league mates never consider it at all. In that way, if you grab people on the wire who are solid pickups in weeks where other owners are in a pinch, you can make some pretty good upgrading trades.

 

[zftcg]

Nothing against it ethically, but some reservations karmically. Back in 2013, when Peyton was setting the world on fire, I was fortunate enough to face his owner's team when he was on bye. There wasn't much on the WW, so I grabbed the best QB available (might have been Alex Smith). He was forced to resort to Nick Foles, who had been benched a few weeks earlier.

You can probably see where this is going ... Foles went ham, throwing for 7 TDs against the Raiders, and I got blown out.

 

[thriftyrocker]

I had a situation a few years back (2010) in a dynasty league where in the playoffs my opponent's only QB got hurt and there was only one viable replacement on waivers - Kerry Collins when he was in Tennessee. I put in a $0 claim for him because I figured if he's dumb enough not even to make a claim he doesn't deserve to win. He did bid and got the player. When I told him I put in a claim, he was upset about it. This was an extreme case since the player had no value outside of that one week. If its week 4 and you pick up the best QB available I don't think anyone can fault you, even if you don't need a QB. You don't know when an injury will happen. You don't know if that QB's hot streak will get better and you might consider him starting. You are improving your roster. It perhaps breaks down in end game scenarios.

 

[spodog]

Some leagues you can pick up a guy and then immediately drop him and he goes to waivers so you could cycle through 7 QBs and send them all to waivers so your opponent cant grab one.

Definition of roster churning.    Easy to outlaw and should be outlawed in good leagues.    That's a d#*# move. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Nothing against it ethically, but some reservations karmically. Back in 2013, when Peyton was setting the world on fire, I was fortunate enough to face his owner's team when he was on bye. There wasn't much on the WW, so I grabbed the best QB available (might have been Alex Smith). He was forced to resort to Nick Foles, who had been benched a few weeks earlier.

You can probably see where this is going ... Foles went ham, throwing for 7 TDs against the Raiders, and I got blown out.

Yeah, but that's just crappy luck. I'd make that move 99/100 though. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I had a situation a few years back (2010) in a dynasty league where in the playoffs my opponent's only QB got hurt and there was only one viable replacement on waivers - Kerry Collins when he was in Tennessee. I put in a $0 claim for him because I figured if he's dumb enough not even to make a claim he doesn't deserve to win. He did bid and got the player. When I told him I put in a claim, he was upset about it. This was an extreme case since the player had no value outside of that one week. If its week 4 and you pick up the best QB available I don't think anyone can fault you, even if you don't need a QB. You don't know when an injury will happen. You don't know if that QB's hot streak will get better and you might consider him starting. You are improving your roster. It perhaps breaks down in end game scenarios.

Why would he possibly be upset about it? 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Definition of roster churning.    Easy to outlaw and should be outlawed in good leagues.    That's a d#*# move. 

Yep - outlawed in both my leagues. 

 

[TheAssassin]

Yep - outlawed in both my leagues. 

Curious as to what the penalty or how it is enforced?

 

[Godsbrother]

I don't think I've ever picked up a player purely as a defensive move to screw someone else.  However if I pick up a player that I want and it just so happens to force a team to pick up a lesser player then that is too bad for that other team.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Curious as to what the penalty or how it is enforced?

 Moves are reversed, but owner is still charged for the transaction fees at four dollars per move.

The other 11 owners then vote to determine if that owner will be replaced in the next year. . 

we take this very seriously. So far in 14 years, no one has done it. 

 

[steelers1080]

In my league a player has to be held for a day I think, before they'll go to waivers instead of free agency.  We haven't had an issue with it yet. A lot of handcuffs are owned by people who don't own the starter, that's just good strategy though.

 

[TripleThreat]

I"m more of a combination of both... Constant churn, playing the upside lottery.  This time of year grabbing handcuffs is almost necessary...it's a war of attrition.  

Mind you, this doesn't mean I'm pulling **** moves, I'm just churning the bottom of my roster, searching for acorns.  When Woodhead went down, I grabbed Buck Allen ... that kinda stuff.  I've moved on from 7 of the 17 guys I drafted.  My league only allows 3 moves per week, I've maxed it a couple of times (streaming D's is more difficult)

People that do the total D move should be called out. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

In my league a player has to be held for a day I think, before they'll go to waivers instead of free agency. 

Yahoo is like that. You can add/drop at will  but unless you hold them overnight, there's no impact waivers wise.  So at most if you could lock up one or two players depending on how many  roster spots you have to play with.

We haven't had an issue with it yet. A lot of handcuffs are owned by people who don't own the starter, that's just good strategy though.

 Absolutely. If I can't get my own handcuffs damn sure I'm gonna get the best handcuff available during the draft. Henry owners would hit the jackpot with an injury to Murray. 

 

[[icon]]

Paying per FA Pickup helps fight churners. 

Three leagues I commish do this: 
• 350 dues + $10 per FA 
• $150 Dues + $5 per FA after 15 
• $100 Dues + $5 per FA after 10

You're welcome to play your team like a lotto drawing.... but it'll cost ya  

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Paying per FA Pickup helps fight churners. 

Three leagues I commish do this: 
• 350 dues + $10 per FA 
• $150 Dues + $5 per FA after 15 
• $100 Dues + $5 per FA after 10

You're welcome to play your team like a lotto drawing.... but it'll cost ya  

Every league I'm in has transaction fees. Obviously they're good for eliminating churn, but as a nice side effect they dissuade people from streaming QB/TE/DSTs all season. In one league the charge is 5% of the buy-in per transaction - it really forces folks to think take every position on the roster seriously. 

I like the combination of "first X number free, after that $Y" - may have to bring that to a vote in my league next year (we moved away from a hard cap of 20 per team in favor of a flat $2 fee just this year).

 

[Judge Smails]

Overall I play to improve my team.  But as an example this week I looked at my opponent who had the Dolphin D.  They play the Saints.  I know he's going to go after a FA defense.  I have the Cardinals and Bucs.  I bid on both Cincy and Jax.  Another owner got Jax and I got Cincy.  So IMO my opponent got a lesser D this week.  You never know how it will pan out, but I didn't want him to easily pick up a D to score a bunch of points and eliminate my edge.  He was going to have to pay in FAAB to make it happen, and he didn't bid enough.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

I was going to start a thread like this because I think in todays world of FF where everybody has access to pretty much the same stuff the gap has closed somewhat between the seasoned FF player and the newbies....

roster management (yours and in some ways controlling other owners rosters) is one of the few ways you can still gain a slight advantage any given week.....

in one league I am in....(20 man rosters) I LOVE every player on my roster and don't want to drop any of them.....but what I do "do" is drop my kicker every week in waivers and try to pick up the BPA....I sit on him until Sunday morning and then drop him for whatever PK is on the wire that I like the best......the player I drop is not able to be picked up for 24 hours so he is locked until the next week....at least he wasn't able to help anybody else, maybe my opponent that week or anybody else (total points, etc)....

as an example...I did this with my kicker and then K. William when it looked like he was going to carry the mail after DJ's injury....it didn't pan out....and it didn't matter, but it could have...

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I was going to start a thread like this because I think in todays world of FF where everybody has access to pretty much the same stuff the gap has closed somewhat between the seasoned FF player and the newbies....

roster management (yours and in some ways controlling other owners rosters) is one of the few ways you can still gain a slight advantage any given week.....

in one league I am in....(20 man rosters) I LOVE every player on my roster and don't want to drop any of them.....but what I do "do" is drop my kicker every week in waivers and try to pick up the BPA....I sit on him until Sunday morning and then drop him for whatever PK is on the wire that I like the best......the player I drop is not able to be picked up for 24 hours so he is locked until the next week....at least he wasn't able to help anybody else, maybe my opponent that week or anybody else (total points, etc)....

I did this with my kicker and then K. William when it looked like he was going to carry the mail after DJ's injury....it didn't pan out....and it didn't matter, but it could have...

I agree with the first part of this -  it's a very good point . That's why I believe to have an edge, the experienced FFB manager needs to hit the wire or pick up a free agent before all of the "start/sit"  or sleeper columns are published. 

 Once  those columns come out, the guppies start to pick up the upside free agents. So I find if you're going to go for the block, best to do it early in the week. 



 The example right above this about the defenses is a good one. I picked up the Bengals D this week for the same reason. Someone else claimed Jacksonville, and my opponent was left with nothing that was better than the crappy defense he was already going to play. That gave me a huge advantage at defense this week instead of letting my opponent "catch up".  That was a bad worth the five dollar add.  I may even start the Bengals instead of my own,  so it's not like a waste of money or something. 

 

[thriftyrocker]

Why would he possibly be upset about it? 

He wanted to win and would be pissed if he lost due to remaining FAAB.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

He wanted to win and would be pissed if he lost due to remaining FAAB.

Oh, I thought you meant he was upset that you'd go for the block. 

 

[thriftyrocker]

Oh, I thought you meant he was upset that you'd go for the block. 

Yes, he was upset I tried to block. Sorry, there was some sarcasm in my previous response. He would blame the other person because he didn't want to lose on a technicality.

 

[need2know]

Wish I could do it more. Short benches