Defensive Team Scoring System (1 Viewer)

[footballsavvy]

I'm working on tweaks to our scoring system for next year. A long-time complain that myself and a few other owners have is that defensive points seem too arbitrary. We use an auction style draft, and every year people pay a little money for the top defense or two, but the rest are $1 afterthoughts... and rightfully so.

On any given sunday that $1 defense seems to have just as good of a chance of putting up over 20 points as any other defense.

6 points for a def/sp score seems too high. Its really an 8 point play when you add in the 2 points fro the fubmle or INt.

I tried to add scoring categories for "points against" and it helped some. But it still doesnt seem to work out where the better defenses at the end of the year have the most fantasy points.

I have been tinkering with a "total yards allowed" category and it seems to be working a little better. In fact, the combination of total yards allowed and points allowed seems to give the best reward for a good defensive performance.

I am still messing around with the range of "yards allowed". I don't have a great feel for what is considered a "normal" day for a defense in term of total yards allowed. I was thinking of a 100 yard range where a 0-point bonus is awarded and then working off of that. So what is a normal range then? 300-400 or perhaps 350-450 yards allowed?

I also reduced TD's to 4 points. You still get 6 for a turnover that gets returned for a TD (when accounting for the INT or fumble), but only 4 for a speical teams TD.

I'd like to know what other creative scoring systems other leagues use. My goal was to make defenses more predictable. I think its dumb that everyone agrees that the best defenses in the league are teams like the Titans and Raven and Steelers, yet those aren't the same teams that lead in fantasy points on a weekly basis - even when they hold teams to 160 total yards and 10 points. Meanwhile the packers give up 34 points and lose the game but put up 25 fantasy points because of two random defensive scores and a few sacks.

Any thoughts, or suggestions on defensive scoring? I'd also be intersted in links to previous articles on this subject if you know of any good ones.

Thanks

 

[Jene Bramel]

Individual Defensive Players! As long as you're tweaking your scoring system, you may as well go all the way. Get rid of the silly, arbitrary team DST.

If that's not an option, here's an article about improving team defensive scoring by Jeff Pasquino that might help.

 

[belljr]

Take away points for scores over 30 etc.

 

[The Jerk]

Keep in mind that there's only so much you can do -- you cannot legislate fully against luck. The best offensive skill position players don't always score the most fantasy points either. Chance is a part of life, therefore it will also be a part of fantasy football regardless of the scoring systems that are used.

In fact, luck surfaces as a major factor in many actual games during the season. This past week, the Colts scored a TD on a tipped ball to Wayne. The defensive back did nothing wrong and "deserved" an incompletion, but luck favored the Colts on that play.

 

[Black]

In one league I reduced kickers and D/ST overall impact by increasing yardage value to 1 point for 10 yards and adding PPR (or 0.5 PPR).

IDP sounds great, but really depends on how much your owners know and how much time they have to spend on it. I'd love to do it, but would really leave a couple of owners behind.

 

[Wu-banger]

Take away points for scores over 30 etc.

I never liked this type of scoring .....If you are going to penalize a D for giving up (x) amount of points it should be when they are actually at fault ..... they should not get a negative if the Offense gives a turnover that leads to the td.

 

[ChromeWeasel]

Our rules:

Scoring for Defensive Categories

BFB - Blocked Field Goals (ID/ST/DST)	2 pointsBXP - Blocked Extra Points (ID/ST/DST)	2 pointsDFR - Defensive/ST Fumble Recovered (ID/DT/DST)	2 pointsDSTPA - Points Against Defense/ST0 - 0 DSTPAs = 13 points1 - 6 DSTPAs = 8 points7 - 10 DSTPAs = 4 points11 - 17 DSTPAs = 2 points32 - 38 DSTPAs = -2 points39 - 99 DSTPAs = -4 pointsDTD - Total Defensive and Special Teams TD	6 pointsInt - Interceptions	2 pointsSACK - Sack	1 pointSTY - Safety	2 pointsYDS - Yards Allowed	0 - 49 YDSs = 10 points50 - 99 YDSs = 8 points100 - 149 YDSs = 6 points150 - 199 YDSs = 5 points200 - 249 YDSs = 2 points250 - 299 YDSs = 1 point300 - 399 YDSs = 0 points400 - 500 YDSs = -2 points501+ YDSs = -4 points

It's important to note that we only count points scored against defense or special teams.

 

[Yenrub]

We have added a couple more categories to (we think) help separate good team defenses from the bad ones.

Award points when they force their opponent to punt

Also give them points for punt return yards

 

[blend]

These don't really level things out, but we've thought about:

Adding in Turnover on Downs as a turnover.

Safeties should be 4 points - they give their NFL team 2 points + they get the ball back.

 

[Tau837]

Consider splitting special teams and defense. That will help a little bit.

Make sure you only count points against for points actually scored against the defense (and special teams if you combine the units). That is, do not count points against for points scored by the opponent's defense.

I like the idea of negative points at one end of the points allowed and yards allowed scales. At least that means there are two reasons to pay attention to defense - getting the good ones and avoiding the bad ones.

I like the idea of 4 points for a safety, but I'd keep defensive and special teams TDs at 6 points. It is a huge play in an NFL game when a team gets a turnover and scores, or scores on special teams, and it should be scored as such IMO.

I think number of punts forced and/or turnovers on downs being rewarded is interesting, but I wonder if that would be supported by many of the fantasy sites' software...

 

[Nemesis]

My rules:

Total Defensive & Special Teams TD 6 points (NO BONUS for length of TD)

Sack .5 point

Int - .5 points

Fumble Rec' .5 points

Safety 2 points

Blocked Field Goals 1 point

Blocked Extra Points 1 point

DSTPA - Points Against Defense/ST

0 - 0 DSTPAs = 10 points

1 - 3 DSTPAs = 8 points

4 - 6 DSTPAs = 6 points

7 - 9 DSTPAs = 4 points

10 DSTPAs = 2 points

We only count points scored against defense or special teams.

YDS - Total Yards Allowed

0 - 49 YDSs = 12 points

50 - 99 YDSs = 10 points

100 - 149 YDSs = 8 points

150 - 199 YDSs = 6 points

200 - 249 YDSs = 4 points

250 - 299 YDSs = 2 point

Def/ST will always have more of a "luck" factor to it. But, I also think it's more important to evaluate how many pts the avg DEF/ST scores in relation to the other Offensive positions. Our league doesn't want our defenses scoring massive amounts of points BECAUSE OF THE LUCK FACTOR defenses have.

 

[The Redbeard]

We've broken our defense up into two parts -

Defensive Lines get points for sacks and yards rushing against.

Defensive Backs for interceptions and passing yards against.

Been doing it for 15 years and a few tweaks here or there, it makes for a nice addition to the league.

 

[tombonneau]

Here is our scoring and yardage system (standard 2pt TO & 1pt sack, 6pt DTD):

eam Defense- All Points Allowed Award 10 points for all points allowed in the range of 0 to 0. Award 8 points for all points allowed in the range of 1 to 6. Award 6 points for all points allowed in the range of 7 to 13. Award 3 points for all points allowed in the range of 14 to 19. Award -3 points for all points allowed in the range of 24 to 29. Award -6 points for all points allowed in the range of 30 to 34. Award -8 points for all points allowed in the range of 35 to 41. Award -10 points for all points allowed in the range of 42 to 99.- Net Yards Allowed (Pass + Rush - Sack Yds) Award 10 points for net yards allowed (pass + rush - sack yds) in the range of 0 to 150. Award 8 points for net yards allowed (pass + rush - sack yds) in the range of 151 to 200. Award 6 points for net yards allowed (pass + rush - sack yds) in the range of 201 to 275. Award 3 points for net yards allowed (pass + rush - sack yds) in the range of 276 to 325. Award -3 points for net yards allowed (pass + rush - sack yds) in the range of 400 to 450. Award -6 points for net yards allowed (pass + rush - sack yds) in the range of 451 to 500. Award -8 points for net yards allowed (pass + rush - sack yds) in the range of 501 to 550. Award -10 points for net yards allowed (pass + rush - sack yds) in the range of 551 to 999.

I studied what the best Ds in the league averaged giving up as far as points and yards to come up with these breakdowns, which I think is extremely fair.Some of the above posters with 10pts for fewer than 50 yards, that never happens in the NFL. Under 150 is much more realistic, and probably with the best D in the league, only happens a few times a year, so that is our big bonus.Also of note, Special Teams Tds go to the player. Next year, we are going to change it to only defensive scores allowed as well, which currently it isn't set to.But everyone in the league likes this system. It allows good Ds to consistenly score in the 20s, which is the whole point. Plus, really crappy Ds, or if you D has a bad day, can easily end up in the negatives, which we also like.

 

[Warhogs]

The simple answer is that if you don't like how much defense can sway the outcome of a game just eliminate defense.

The same can probably be said for kicker though. When you look at the group as a whole there is not a huge difference but you might get 15-20 points out of a K and a goose egg the next.

I personally never have bought into these complaints that this thread is about. Over the course of a season you can gain a big advantage by playing good K and D matchups but so many people want to ignore them.

 

[Happy]

Using Points Against is a very good measure of a defense. It's not perfect, as the Interception for TD penalizes the DT when the team's QB gives it away, but nothing's perfect.

Check out Unlucky's Phenom's Leagues, a very popular online league that many SharkPool members participate in. The DT points are tied directly to

http://www.phenomsff.com/leagues/rules/draft.html

D/ST scoring:

Points allowed

10 – (0.3 x PA)

Yards allowed

10 – (0.03 x YA)

TD

6 pts.

Safety

2 pts.

Takeaways

2 pts.

Sacks

1 pt.

NOTE: DT Points can go NEGATIVE, and frequently do if the team scores too many points against.

In leagues like this, the top ranked (in order) DTs are

1. Titans

2. Ravens

3. Steelers

4. Bucs

5. Jets

6. Giants

7. Eagles

8. Packers

9. Bears

10. Panthers

11. Cardinals

12. Vikings

In my own league, I set the points against component to the DT scoring as

10 points for 0, and then -.5 point for every 1 thereafter.

This means that if a DT gives up 20 points, they get 0 for the component of Points Against, and start to go negative after that. The reason I set it up this way was because the Mean Points Against in 2007 was ~20 points. If a team gives up less than 20 points, they get positive points for that week, if they give up more than 20 points, then they get negative for that week. This results in similar top 10 defenses as listed above.

 

[footballsavvy]

Using Points Against is a very good measure of a defense. It's not perfect, as the Interception for TD penalizes the DT when the team's QB gives it away, but nothing's perfect.

Check out Unlucky's Phenom's Leagues, a very popular online league that many SharkPool members participate in. The DT points are tied directly to

http://www.phenomsff.com/leagues/rules/draft.html

D/ST scoring:

Points allowed

10 – (0.3 x PA)

Yards allowed

10 – (0.03 x YA)

TD

6 pts.

Safety

2 pts.

Takeaways

2 pts.

Sacks

1 pt.

NOTE: DT Points can go NEGATIVE, and frequently do if the team scores too many points against.

In leagues like this, the top ranked (in order) DTs are

1. Titans

2. Ravens

3. Steelers

4. Bucs

5. Jets

6. Giants

7. Eagles

8. Packers

9. Bears

10. Panthers

11. Cardinals

12. Vikings

In my own league, I set the points against component to the DT scoring as

10 points for 0, and then -.5 point for every 1 thereafter.

This means that if a DT gives up 20 points, they get 0 for the component of Points Against, and start to go negative after that. The reason I set it up this way was because the Mean Points Against in 2007 was ~20 points. If a team gives up less than 20 points, they get positive points for that week, if they give up more than 20 points, then they get negative for that week. This results in similar top 10 defenses as listed above.

I like that.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Individual Defensive Players! As long as you're tweaking your scoring system, you may as well go all the way. Get rid of the silly, arbitrary team DST.

If that's not an option, here's an article about improving team defensive scoring by Jeff Pasquino that might help.

The formula here uses turnovers, punts forced and turnovers on downs.