Define a "choke" in sports (1 Viewer)

[Aaron Rudnicki]

It is ridiculously uncommon. In the NHL this season, only one team has a losing record when leading after the 2nd period. A one goal lead, with 20 minutes to play is nearly insurmountable in the NHL. For two teams as evenly matched as the women's teams, it is absolutely a choke job.

based on the numbers you just provided, teams leading after the 2nd period are 572-110. So, 16% of them have lost when leading after 2.

if you change that to the last 4 minutes like we had here, it's definitely very uncommon.

I tend to agree that this example qualifies.

 

[Cyclones]

3-2 is a choke? What Manning did in the Super Bowl was a choke. Losing by one goal to good team just seems like losing to me.

Up by two with under 7 minutes to play? Yeah. That's a huge choke.

You know two of those goals came with Canada having an extra skater on the ice right?

Irrelevant.

Yeah facts are such pesky things. This was a good team and no one would have been surprised if it went either way. No it isn't a choke.

Any hockey team blowing a 2 goal lead to any other hockey in the last 3-4 minutes is absolutely a choke job.

They didn't lose to Belarus - they lost to a team that hasn't lost an Olympic hockey game since the Clinton administration. 2 Goals in a hockey game that was frenetic over the last ~10 minutes is hardly uncommon.

It is ridiculously uncommon. In the NHL this season, only one team has a losing record when leading after the 2nd period. A one goal lead, with 20 minutes to play is nearly insurmountable in the NHL. For two teams as evenly matched as the women's teams, it is absolutely a choke job.

This isn't NHL hockey. NHL teams play 82 games a season and hold north of 100 practices. Neither Canada nor the US team are even really tested that hard by any other country - how often has this US team faced the circumstances they did yesterday? Yesterday was the first time, and it was against the only team that is at least their equal in talent.

ETA I'm not sticking up for the US team either, I'm Canadian. I've watched thousands of hockey games and seen alot of teams cough up game tying goals in the last minute of a game.

 

[Rove!]

blowing an undefeated season after being up 13 points in the second half at home vs a vastly inferior opponent

 

[Statcruncher]

The game tying goal was scored with Canada's goalie pulled and an extra attacker on the ice. According to this article

Indeed, mathematical studies indicate that the extra-man gambit works often enough to justify it. Andrew Thomas, who studied data from four NHL seasons during the past decade for an article in the Journal of Quantitative Analysis, found that 30 percent of the goals scored with the cage empty were tallied by the attacking side.

The game winning goal was scored by Canada with a skater advantage. In the NHL the average power play success is 18%. To call it choking when a team gives up 2 goals in those circumstances to an equally matched foe is ridiculous.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

3-2 is a choke? What Manning did in the Super Bowl was a choke. Losing by one goal to good team just seems like losing to me.

Up by two with under 7 minutes to play? Yeah. That's a huge choke.

You know two of those goals came with Canada having an extra skater on the ice right?

Irrelevant.

Yeah facts are such pesky things. This was a good team and no one would have been surprised if it went either way. No it isn't a choke.

Any hockey team blowing a 2 goal lead to any other hockey in the last 3-4 minutes is absolutely a choke job.

They didn't lose to Belarus - they lost to a team that hasn't lost an Olympic hockey game since the Clinton administration. 2 Goals in a hockey game that was frenetic over the last ~10 minutes is hardly uncommon.

It is ridiculously uncommon. In the NHL this season, only one team has a losing record when leading after the 2nd period. A one goal lead, with 20 minutes to play is nearly insurmountable in the NHL. For two teams as evenly matched as the women's teams, it is absolutely a choke job.

This isn't NHL hockey. NHL teams play 82 games a season and hold north of 100 practices. Neither Canada nor the US team are even really tested that hard by any other country - how often has this US team faced the circumstances they did yesterday? Yesterday was the first time, and it was against the only team that is at least their equal in talent.

ETA I'm not sticking up for the US team either, I'm Canadian. I've watched thousands of hockey games and seen alot of teams cough up game tying goals in the last minute of a game.

I too am Canadian and have watched thousands and played thousands of hockey games. I'm not trying to take a shot at the US team. #### happens. One break goes the other way and it doesn't happen but it doesn't change the fact that they blow a 2 goal lead in the last 4 minutes. It isn't like these teams haven't played each other. The US team has won 4 of 5 world championships over Canada. The amount of opportunity is irrelevant. How often have the Leafs had a 3-1 series lead over the Bruins and had a 3 goal lead in the 3rd period? Just once. Does that mean the Leafs didn't choke?

 

[Cyclones]

3-2 is a choke? What Manning did in the Super Bowl was a choke. Losing by one goal to good team just seems like losing to me.

Up by two with under 7 minutes to play? Yeah. That's a huge choke.

You know two of those goals came with Canada having an extra skater on the ice right?

Irrelevant.

Yeah facts are such pesky things. This was a good team and no one would have been surprised if it went either way. No it isn't a choke.

Any hockey team blowing a 2 goal lead to any other hockey in the last 3-4 minutes is absolutely a choke job.

They didn't lose to Belarus - they lost to a team that hasn't lost an Olympic hockey game since the Clinton administration. 2 Goals in a hockey game that was frenetic over the last ~10 minutes is hardly uncommon.

It is ridiculously uncommon. In the NHL this season, only one team has a losing record when leading after the 2nd period. A one goal lead, with 20 minutes to play is nearly insurmountable in the NHL. For two teams as evenly matched as the women's teams, it is absolutely a choke job.

This isn't NHL hockey. NHL teams play 82 games a season and hold north of 100 practices. Neither Canada nor the US team are even really tested that hard by any other country - how often has this US team faced the circumstances they did yesterday? Yesterday was the first time, and it was against the only team that is at least their equal in talent.

ETA I'm not sticking up for the US team either, I'm Canadian. I've watched thousands of hockey games and seen alot of teams cough up game tying goals in the last minute of a game.

I too am Canadian and have watched thousands and played thousands of hockey games. I'm not trying to take a shot at the US team. #### happens. One break goes the other way and it doesn't happen but it doesn't change the fact that they blow a 2 goal lead in the last 4 minutes. It isn't like these teams haven't played each other. The US team has won 4 of 5 world championships over Canada. The amount of opportunity is irrelevant. How often have the Leafs had a 3-1 series lead over the Bruins and had a 3 goal lead in the 3rd period? Just once. Does that mean the Leafs didn't choke?

Dude please don't bring the memories of game 7 up again. I've successfully buried them and never want to see that unfold in my head again.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Dude please don't bring the memories of game 7 up again. I've successfully buried them and never want to see that unfold in my head again.

Ah a Leafs fan. Well I guess we can completely disregard your opinion on hockey

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

The game tying goal was scored with Canada's goalie pulled and an extra attacker on the ice. According to

this article

Indeed, mathematical studies indicate that the extra-man gambit works often

enough to justify it. Andrew Thomas, who studied data from four NHL seasons during the past decade for an article in the Journal of Quantitative Analysis, found that 30 percent of

the goals scored with the cage empty were tallied by the attacking side.

The game winning goal was scored by Canada

with a skater advantage. In the NHL the

average power play success is 18%. To call it choking when a team gives up 2 goals in those circumstances to an equally matched foe is ridiculous.

70% of the time the team that still has the goalie scores

 

[irish eyes]

Any hockey game that is within 2 goals with at least a couple of minutes left is still within reach for the trailing team. Typically the trailing team will pinch an extra defenseman in deep to try and maintain pressure in the offensive zone, which will either create more chances or lead to odd man rushes the other way.

Watching the game yesterday, you could feel it coming after Canada scored to make it 2-1. At that point, even though I'm sure the percentages would disagree, the game is a coin flip. Despite the inept lineswoman's body check to the Canadian defender at the blue line setting up the shot by the US that hit the post, the US team just couldn't hang on. That happens ALL the time in hockey. Giving up a 2 goal lead with 3+ minutes left to a team that is at least as good as you isn't a choke, it's called hockey.

You're right it isn't choking, it's monumental choking.

Says the guy who can probably count the number of hockey games he has watched on one hand.

Oh I didn't realize you monitored my TV viewing, I guess you're work for Nielsen ratings. And I guarantee I've seen many more games than you. You defining choking by the strength of the opponent is beyond moronic.

 

[Cyclones]

Dude please don't bring the memories of game 7 up again. I've successfully buried them and never want to see that unfold in my head again.

Ah a Leafs fan. Well I guess we can completely disregard your opinion on hockey

Don't get me wrong sir - I know stats and analytics and percentages say a 2 goal lead lead with 4 minutes left is a giant mountain to climb, but hockey is such a momentum game, and it was all Canada in the last half of the third period yesterday, like you could feel it coming. When Boston scored to make it 4-2 last year, I knew deep down we'd have to dodge a game tying goal with their goalie pulled. Sometimes you just see it before it happens.

If that shot hits the post yesterday, nobody is having this conversation (although the play never should have happened, the linesman was WAY out of postion.)

 

[Cyclones]

Any hockey game that is within 2 goals with at least a couple of minutes left is still within reach for the trailing team. Typically the trailing team will pinch an extra defenseman in deep to try and maintain pressure in the offensive zone, which will either create more chances or lead to odd man rushes the other way.

Watching the game yesterday, you could feel it coming after Canada scored to make it 2-1. At that point, even though I'm sure the percentages would disagree, the game is a coin flip. Despite the inept lineswoman's body check to the Canadian defender at the blue line setting up the shot by the US that hit the post, the US team just couldn't hang on. That happens ALL the time in hockey. Giving up a 2 goal lead with 3+ minutes left to a team that is at least as good as you isn't a choke, it's called hockey.

You're right it isn't choking, it's monumental choking.

Says the guy who can probably count the number of hockey games he has watched on one hand.

Oh I didn't realize you monitored my TV viewing, I guess you're work for Nielsen ratings. And I guarantee I've seen many more games than you. You defining choking by the strength of the opponent is beyond moronic.

I don't know how many games I've watched, it's certainly in the thousands. I'm 39 and have been watching hockey since Gretzky's rookie season in Edmonton.

To each his own though. It was a classic game that could have gone either way at the end.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

The game tying goal was scored with Canada's goalie pulled and an extra attacker on the ice. According to this article

Indeed, mathematical studies indicate that the extra-man gambit works often enough to justify it. Andrew Thomas, who studied data from four NHL seasons during the past decade for an article in the Journal of Quantitative Analysis, found that 30 percent of the goals scored with the cage empty were tallied by the attacking side.

The game winning goal was scored by Canada with a skater advantage. In the NHL the average power play success is 18%. To call it choking when a team gives up 2 goals in those circumstances to an equally matched foe is ridiculous.

Yeah, you might want to look at those numbers again.

30 percent of the goals scored with the cage empty were tallied by the attacking side.

That does not mean a team scores 30% of the time that they pull their goalie.

the Elias Sports Bureau reports that 48 extra-attacker goals (with or without the goalie pulled) were scored in the final three minutes during this year’s regular season with another seven in the playoffs.

That was last year. 48 goals scored with an empty net in 1230 games (4%). Now couple that with a goal scored just before pulling the goalie and then losing in overtime and let me know what the odds are.

And from your same article:

“What are the chances of your scoring two goals in the last two minutes?” says Andy Murray, the former coach of the Kings and Blues who’s now head man at Western Michigan. “In most cases, that isn’t reality. If you wait that long, you’re probably going to lose by two or three, anyway.”

And do they really need an article saying its good to pull your goalie? Anyone familiar with hockey knows it is absolutely the right play when you're down at the end of the game.

 

[Statcruncher]

The game tying goal was scored with Canada's goalie pulled and an extra attacker on the ice. According to this article

Indeed, mathematical studies indicate that the extra-man gambit works often enough to justify it. Andrew Thomas, who studied data from four NHL seasons during the past decade for an article in the Journal of Quantitative Analysis, found that 30 percent of the goals scored with the cage empty were tallied by the attacking side.

The game winning goal was scored by Canada with a skater advantage. In the NHL the average power play success is 18%. To call it choking when a team gives up 2 goals in those circumstances to an equally matched foe is ridiculous.

Yeah, you might want to look at those numbers again.

30 percent of the goals scored with the cage empty were tallied by the attacking side.

That does not mean a team scores 30% of the time that they pull their goalie.

the Elias Sports Bureau reports that 48 extra-attacker goals (with or without the goalie pulled) were scored in the final three minutes during this year’s regular season with another seven in the playoffs.

That was last year. 48 goals scored with an empty net in 1230 games (4%). Now couple that with a goal scored just before pulling the goalie and then losing in overtime and let me know what the odds are.

And from your same article:

“What are the chances of your scoring two goals in the last two minutes?” says Andy Murray, the former coach of the Kings and Blues who’s now head man at Western Michigan. “In most cases, that isn’t reality. If you wait that long, you’re probably going to lose by two or three, anyway.”

And do they really need an article saying its good to pull your goalie? Anyone familiar with hockey knows it is absolutely the right play when you're down at the end of the game.

I never said they had a 30% chance of scoring, and you might need to look at your incorrect numbers again. The 4% number you've used assumes that all 1230 NHL games had a goalie pulled, which obviously didn't happen. Bottom line using the NHL as an example, when a team pulls their goalie and a goal is scored, it's a 30% chance of being theirs. When a team has a man advantage they have a 18% chance of scoring a goal. Giving up goals to an equal team in this situation is not a choke.

 

[Cyclones]

I guess a lot of this depends on how many degrees of "choking" you want to define.

This isn't Oilers vs Bills, or Norman vs Faldo, or Van de Velde level choking we are talking about - those are all time choke jobs. This was just your run of the mill, team resting on it's laurels, getting 2 unlucky breaks in the last 4 minutes of a hockey game choking, which I consider pretty common comparatively.

I'm starting to fall over to Cliff's side of this - it was a choke, but nowhere near an all timer.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I guess a lot of this depends on how many degrees of "choking" you want to define.

This isn't Oilers vs Bills, or Norman vs Faldo, or Van de Velde level choking we are talking about - those are all time choke jobs. This was just your run of the mill, team resting on it's laurels, getting 2 unlucky breaks in the last 4 minutes of a hockey game choking, which I consider pretty common comparatively.

I'm starting to fall over to Cliff's side of this - it was a choke, but nowhere near an all timer.

On a scale of 1-10, I'd probably rank it a 7 or 8 when comparing it to all other sports. For just Women's hockey, it is an all-timer. If it was a round robin game I'd give it a 5. But 4 minutes away from a gold medal gives it a good bump. If it was a 3 goal lead in that amount of time, it would get a 10.

Van de Velde, Leafs vs Bruins, or Sox vs Yankees would all be perfect 10's IMO.

 

[moleculo]

Guillotine, triangle, anaconda, D'Arce, rear naked, gogo plata, Brabo

 

[Cyclones]

I guess a lot of this depends on how many degrees of "choking" you want to define.

This isn't Oilers vs Bills, or Norman vs Faldo, or Van de Velde level choking we are talking about - those are all time choke jobs. This was just your run of the mill, team resting on it's laurels, getting 2 unlucky breaks in the last 4 minutes of a hockey game choking, which I consider pretty common comparatively.

I'm starting to fall over to Cliff's side of this - it was a choke, but nowhere near an all timer.

On a scale of 1-10, I'd probably rank it a 7 or 8 when comparing it to all other sports. For just Women's hockey, it is an all-timer. If it was a round robin game I'd give it a 5. But 4 minutes away from a gold medal gives it a good bump. If it was a 3 goal lead in that amount of time, it would get a 10.

Van de Velde, Leafs vs Bruins, or Sox vs Yankees would all be perfect 10's IMO.

Yeah, when looking at just women's hockey, it's gotta be the worst ever, right? But really, how many "huge" women's hockey games have been played in history? 5?

 

[jhib]

47 yard field goal on grass in those days was not an easy kick for Norwood. It sucked but not sure it qualifies as a choke.

Yeah, that was kind of my point earlier. The guy was 1-5 from over 40 yards on grass that year.

Would an average shooter missing a last-second three qualify as a choke? Or would that just be more expected than not?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I guess a lot of this depends on how many degrees of "choking" you want to define.

This isn't Oilers vs Bills, or Norman vs Faldo, or Van de Velde level choking we are talking about - those are all time choke jobs. This was just your run of the mill, team resting on it's laurels, getting 2 unlucky breaks in the last 4 minutes of a hockey game choking, which I consider pretty common comparatively.

I'm starting to fall over to Cliff's side of this - it was a choke, but nowhere near an all timer.

On a scale of 1-10, I'd probably rank it a 7 or 8 when comparing it to all other sports. For just Women's hockey, it is an all-timer. If it was a round robin game I'd give it a 5. But 4 minutes away from a gold medal gives it a good bump. If it was a 3 goal lead in that amount of time, it would get a 10.

Van de Velde, Leafs vs Bruins, or Sox vs Yankees would all be perfect 10's IMO.

Yeah, when looking at just women's hockey, it's gotta be the worst ever, right? But really, how many "huge" women's hockey games have been played in history? 5?

I don't recall any other but there may have been. There is the world championship every year that is pretty big for women.

 

[MikeIke]

Jose ####ing Mesa

 

[Rove!]

Jose ####ing Mesa

should have stuck with Jackson....

 

[tikigods]

Donnie Moore 1986 ALCS v. Boston

 

[Cyclones]

I guess a lot of this depends on how many degrees of "choking" you want to define.

This isn't Oilers vs Bills, or Norman vs Faldo, or Van de Velde level choking we are talking about - those are all time choke jobs. This was just your run of the mill, team resting on it's laurels, getting 2 unlucky breaks in the last 4 minutes of a hockey game choking, which I consider pretty common comparatively.

I'm starting to fall over to Cliff's side of this - it was a choke, but nowhere near an all timer.

On a scale of 1-10, I'd probably rank it a 7 or 8 when comparing it to all other sports. For just Women's hockey, it is an all-timer. If it was a round robin game I'd give it a 5. But 4 minutes away from a gold medal gives it a good bump. If it was a 3 goal lead in that amount of time, it would get a 10.

Van de Velde, Leafs vs Bruins, or Sox vs Yankees would all be perfect 10's IMO.

Yeah, when looking at just women's hockey, it's gotta be the worst ever, right? But really, how many "huge" women's hockey games have been played in history? 5?

I don't recall any other but there may have been. There is the world championship every year that is pretty big for women.

Yeah, I was thinking really that the only women's hockey games that really matter on an international level are Olympic gold medal games. I live in Kentucky and a lot of people here watched that game on Thursday, but none of them have ever seen a world championship game.

 

[Christo]

There's no such thing as choking in sports. It's a simplistic concept for simplistic people.

Nonsense

 

[timschochet]

There's no such thing as choking in sports. It's a simplistic concept for simplistic people.

Nonsense

roadkill's closer to being right than wrong here. "Choking" has come to describe anytime a player or team loses in an unlikely fashion after being way ahead. It's inaccurate and overused. It also diminishes the effort of the actual victor.

Choking does occur, but very rarely IMO. It happens when somebody has a chance to win, gets nervous, and then blows it. The term should never be applied to a team, only to an individual player in certain instances. But those instances are almost impossible to prove.

 

[Christo]

There's no such thing as choking in sports. It's a simplistic concept for simplistic people.

Nonsense

roadkill's closer to being right than wrong here. "Choking" has come to describe anytime a player or team loses in an unlikely fashion after being way ahead. It's inaccurate and overused. It also diminishes the effort of the actual victor.

Choking does occur, but very rarely IMO. It happens when somebody has a chance to win, gets nervous, and then blows it. The term should never be applied to a team, only to an individual player in certain instances. But those instances are almost impossible to prove.

That's a lot of words just to tell me I was correct.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I guess a lot of this depends on how many degrees of "choking" you want to define.

This isn't Oilers vs Bills, or Norman vs Faldo, or Van de Velde level choking we are talking about - those are all time choke jobs. This was just your run of the mill, team resting on it's laurels, getting 2 unlucky breaks in the last 4 minutes of a hockey game choking, which I consider pretty common comparatively.

I'm starting to fall over to Cliff's side of this - it was a choke, but nowhere near an all timer.

On a scale of 1-10, I'd probably rank it a 7 or 8 when comparing it to all other sports. For just Women's hockey, it is an all-timer. If it was a round robin game I'd give it a 5. But 4 minutes away from a gold medal gives it a good bump. If it was a 3 goal lead in that amount of time, it would get a 10.

Van de Velde, Leafs vs Bruins, or Sox vs Yankees would all be perfect 10's IMO.

Yeah, when looking at just women's hockey, it's gotta be the worst ever, right? But really, how many "huge" women's hockey games have been played in history? 5?

I don't recall any other but there may have been. There is the world championship every year that is pretty big for women.

Yeah, I was thinking really that the only women's hockey games that really matter on an international level are Olympic gold medal games. I live in Kentucky and a lot of people here watched that game on Thursday, but none of them have ever seen a world championship game.

Its barely a blip on the radar in Canada as well but the hate those women have for each other makes it a huge deal to them.

 

[Fly]

02 World Series - Game 6

 

[Master of Past and Present]

Hard to define a choke. Maybe a team/player in a winnable position faces some adversity and then while still in a winning position completely drops off their level instead of rising to the occasion? A choke job basically means you mentally fell apart for some reason, not talking about strategy but how you execute.

2011 US Open SF

Djokovic vs Federer

Federer wins first two sets, Djokovic wins next two but expends a ton of energy. Federer goes up a break in the 5th and serves for the match at 5-3 and even reaches match point at 40-15. He hits a really nice serve that Djokovic goes all out for and it smacks just in. Federer is still serving with a match point at 40-30 and worst possible outcome of this game is still on serve but Federer let one shot psych him out. Djokovic wins the last 4 games to win the match despite looking like he had little in the tank. Djokovic looked spent in the 5th set and somehow Federer let him win with one huge shot that rattled him, that was a choke job cemented by how Federer talked in the post game presser about how Djokovic won.

 

[tikigods]

Armando Galarraga's near perfect game courtesy of Jim Joyce.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Donnie Moore 1986 ALCS v. Boston

Only went downhill for Donnie from that point on

 

[dwarfboy]

Greg Norman.

Jean van de Velde:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dR1pkCGY80

The poor guy had a major championship won and everything that comes with it including an invitation to the Masters and years of qualifying exemptions.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

Choke = substandard play during crunch time that leads to a loss.

 

[The General]

Greg Norman.

Jean van de Velde:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dR1pkCGY80

Him taking off the shoes and getting into the water is pretty epic.

The Norman choke dragged on over hours though. He lost 11 strokes to Faldo during the final day. Watching the guy fall apart very, very slowly was something I still remember.

 

[jomar]

Greg Norman.

Jean van de Velde:

Norman was the bigger choke. Van de Velde played extremely well that day and would have won the open if his second shot doesn't ricochet backwards off the stands and into heather. Still a choke but Norman's was brutal to watch. An entire day of choking from start to finish.

 

[BobbyLayne]

6 over in 11 holes during the final round of a golf tournament when you're the most accomplished player (by a long ways) on the leaderboard.

 

[rockaction]

3-2 is a choke? What Manning did in the Super Bowl was a choke. Losing by one goal to good team just seems like losing to me.

Up by two with under 7 minutes to play? Yeah. That's a huge choke.

You know two of those goals came with Canada having an extra skater on the ice right?

Irrelevant.

Yeah facts are such pesky things. This was a good team and no one would have been surprised if it went either way. No it isn't a choke.

Any hockey team blowing a 2 goal lead to any other hockey in the last 3-4 minutes is absolutely a choke job.

They didn't lose to Belarus - they lost to a team that hasn't lost an Olympic hockey game since the Clinton administration. 2 Goals in a hockey game that was frenetic over the last ~10 minutes is hardly uncommon.

It is ridiculously uncommon. In the NHL this season, only one team has a losing record when leading after the 2nd period. A one goal lead, with 20 minutes to play is nearly insurmountable in the NHL. For two teams as evenly matched as the women's teams, it is absolutely a choke job.

This isn't NHL hockey. NHL teams play 82 games a season and hold north of 100 practices. Neither Canada nor the US team are even really tested that hard by any other country - how often has this US team faced the circumstances they did yesterday? Yesterday was the first time, and it was against the only team that is at least their equal in talent.

ETA I'm not sticking up for the US team either, I'm Canadian. I've watched thousands of hockey games and seen alot of teams cough up game tying goals in the last minute of a game.

I too am Canadian and have watched thousands and played thousands of hockey games. I'm not trying to take a shot at the US team. #### happens. One break goes the other way and it doesn't happen but it doesn't change the fact that they blow a 2 goal lead in the last 4 minutes. It isn't like these teams haven't played each other. The US team has won 4 of 5 world championships over Canada. The amount of opportunity is irrelevant. How often have the Leafs had a 3-1 series lead over the Bruins and had a 3 goal lead in the 3rd period? Just once. Does that mean the Leafs didn't choke?

I'm nitpicking. The B's were up 3-1 in the series and were headed for another all-time choke.

The Leafs won 5 and 6 last year.

edited for grammar.

 

[grateful zed]

rory

 

[Mr.Pack]

3-2 is a choke? What Manning did in the Super Bowl was a choke. Losing by one goal to good team just seems like losing to me.

Up by two with under 7 minutes to play? Yeah. That's a huge choke.

Yep, this is the very definition of a choke. Having a nice lead only to let it go and lose, in any sport, is what I consider a choke.

Not someone or a team that is SUPPOSED to win, once you're winning decisively and end up losing, you choked.

 

[Mr.Pack]

That said, I'm not sure there is a perfect number that separates a choke from a non choke. But if you're saying that the US was up 2-0 with 4 minutes left, that is a choke.

alright then

so, we have giving up a 2 goal lead with

4 minutes left = choke

6 minutes left = choke

8 minutes left = no choke

is this right? not trying to be difficult here. just trying to figure out where the line should be drawn.

You're being the very definition of difficult. Try reading his posts.

Holy crap.

 

[wazoo11]

Syracuse 43–17 over BC in 2004.

Boston College had a chance earn its first spot in a Bowl Championship Series game. It would have been a major step for BC's football program.