nysportsfan
Footballguy
Looks like a large dose of Tanner in 2nd half here. Thanks for another nice week DeMarco. It was nice knowing you while you were fantasy relevant
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Demarco Murray (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Bracie Smathers
- Start date
Shutout
Footballguy
Murray was quite injury prone in college too. Not sure either of these guys are guys you can go a whole season with.
Tony Reali
Footballguy
So are you saying to sell?
nysportsfan
Footballguy
Murray back in after halftime.
solorca
Footballguy
The exact reason I hung on to Felix, even though I could have used the extra roster spot.
Football Jones
Footballguy
Murray missed 5 games in his 4-year career at Oklahoma. 3 of those came as a Freshman after a dislocated knee. Played all 14 his senior season. He's actually been pretty durable.
Last edited by a moderator:
solorca
Footballguy
Good info. I guess that's why I shouldn't just trust the random comments I read on the internet
I still think Felix is a good hold for Murray owners, just in case.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Murray mojo continues.
Goose Goselin comes up with some gems.
Demarco Murray opening eyes around the league
Goose Goselin comes up with some gems.
Demarco Murray opening eyes around the league
The thing I took away from this game was the goal line carry that Murray converted.The Boys hadn't had a goal line option and that lead people to assume it was a package or offensive line issue but they ran when Barber was healthy and an option so I think Murray will get oportunities down near the goal from here on out. Garrett is changing his offensive game plan. He is changing his game plans because he realizes what he has with Demarco Murray so I think he will get those goal line opportunities that were previously going to Romo and the passing game.
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
1st round pick next year, right? 
need2know
Footballguy
Probably. I could see taking him end of round one if he continues his strong play for the rest of the year. But he def carries some risk. But what first round pick doesn't?1st round pick next year, right?
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
For goodness sakes yes.Demarco is ranked 11th in the NFL for the 2011 season after only getting significant work in four games.He should rate in the top 7 or even 5 by the end of the year.The buzz hasn't even begun on Murray.Next year he will be considered a top-five fantasy RB.Probably. I could see taking him end of round one if he continues his strong play for the rest of the year. But he def carries some risk. But what first round pick doesn't?1st round pick next year, right?
jackdubl
Footballguy
I was thinking top five. That's why I'm considering trading Arian Foster(who I can keep once with my first round pick) for Murray(who can be kept twice for a seventh and then a sixth) in my keeper league. Is that overvaluing him? First round cost sucks.For goodness sakes yes.Demarco is ranked 11th in the NFL for the 2011 season after only getting significant work in four games.He should rate in the top 7 or even 5 by the end of the year.The buzz hasn't even begun on Murray.Next year he will be considered a top-five fantasy RB.Probably. I could see taking him end of round one if he continues his strong play for the rest of the year. But he def carries some risk. But what first round pick doesn't?1st round pick next year, right?
Last edited by a moderator:
CompetitiveEdgeFootball
Footballguy
I had a convo with Sigmund on twitter yesterday. We both agreed, he's a 2nd rounder at worst- provided he keeps the lions share of the backfield touches.1st round pick next year, right?
CompetitiveEdgeFootball
Footballguy
I have Felix stashed. Felix is probably 65% of what DeMarco has been, which really isn't too bad as long as he's not your RB1. (the fragile Cowboy tailback was my flex.)Good info. I guess that's why I shouldn't just trust the random comments I read on the internet
nicholasngn
Footballguy
Agree. Thanks everyone.
CompetitiveEdgeFootball
Footballguy
You guys should look into Matt Waldman's Rookie Scouting Report and do our preseason mock NFL drafts. Then you'd be able to spot guys like this without being told. You could be one of the ones giving the advice. Just sayin' 
kutta
Footballguy
And if you study even harder, you could be Matt Waldman himself.You guys should look into Matt Waldman's Rookie Scouting Report and do our preseason mock NFL drafts. Then you'd be able to spot guys like this without being told. You could be one of the ones giving the advice. Just sayin'
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
Not without a luxuriant beard, you couldn't.And if you study even harder, you could be Matt Waldman himself.You guys should look into Matt Waldman's Rookie Scouting Report and do our preseason mock NFL drafts. Then you'd be able to spot guys like this without being told. You could be one of the ones giving the advice. Just sayin'
CompetitiveEdgeFootball
Footballguy
But who has the time to study THAT hard?And if you study even harder, you could be Matt Waldman himself.You guys should look into Matt Waldman's Rookie Scouting Report and do our preseason mock NFL drafts. Then you'd be able to spot guys like this without being told. You could be one of the ones giving the advice. Just sayin'
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
Eric Dickerson
Lots would have to fall into place for the Cowboys to be able to trade Felix and draft Martin, but stranger things have happened. Those moves would quickly derail those thinking that Demarco Murray is a top 10 dynasty back. It's not out of the realm of possibility that Martin is sitting there for the Cowboys at #45.Any substance to this?
The issue I see is that Felix Jones really isn't worth that much to other teams. He is basically a 3rd down back at this point with little upside. At most, Dallas would probably get a 6th or 7th round pick for Felix Jones. He is still worth trading or should they just keep him? If the alternative is to cut Jones, then by all means, try to trade him.
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
Ooof.
Sudoku_in_the_Bathtub
Footballguy
I think Felix is a valuable asset tor Dallas in part time/complimentary role. He's more Tatum Bell than ever being a carry the load RB. I don't know why they'd deal him unless they're not sold on Murray as their future at RB (JMO Doubtful they'll find a better part time asset than Felix ...not sure Felix will require a big contract extension either)
Little doubt he's (Murray) the guy right now in Dallasa, but have my doubts of Demarco holding up for 16 games. (I think he and Felix can be an excellent tandem)
Little doubt he's (Murray) the guy right now in Dallasa, but have my doubts of Demarco holding up for 16 games. (I think he and Felix can be an excellent tandem)
Last edited by a moderator:
Shutout
Footballguy
DeMarco and felix, together, are a starting FF RB each week. But neither of them are by themselves.
I know there has been a maddening love for DeMarco around here and the facts that he came in fresh and played against people already into the grind, that he played a schedule that couldn't have been better hand-picked if someone tried, that he slowed down considerably after about 4 games, that his production was eaten into considerably once Felix returned, and that he ended up injured just like it was warned about him by many of us, has been grossly overlooked...
But nevermind that. Let's not let the facts get in the way of a good hype-up here. Let's be sure to proclaim him top 5-10 (I still have no idea which 12 of these guys he is going to bump in order to get that top 5 or so ranking)...Shady, Rice, foster, Forte, CJ, MJD, Gore, Ingram, ADP, Richardson, JSTEW, Bradshaw, SJAX, DMAC, Lynch, Matthews, Beanie, Spiller, etc...That's a lot of good names for him to leap frog in order to live up to the hype.
Bottom line: There IS production to be had from this Cowboys RB job but you need both these guys or neither. I seriously doubt you are going to be able to roll with one exclusively. This has "week-to-week" written all over it. You may zoom along in September, but what are you going to have in November?
The best answer is for Felix to stay in Dallas and keep the known. Then you know you have two guys that do similar things and you know how Dallas uses them. IF Felix leaves, then you have lots of questions; especially if Dallas picks up a guy like Martin or Wilson or, in general, a tough inside type runner. To me, that would be the worst case scenario because that just screams "turn it over to the guy like Martin" come November. Few things suck worse than to look like a crowned king in September and then have all your players yanked out from under you in December.
I know there has been a maddening love for DeMarco around here and the facts that he came in fresh and played against people already into the grind, that he played a schedule that couldn't have been better hand-picked if someone tried, that he slowed down considerably after about 4 games, that his production was eaten into considerably once Felix returned, and that he ended up injured just like it was warned about him by many of us, has been grossly overlooked...
But nevermind that. Let's not let the facts get in the way of a good hype-up here. Let's be sure to proclaim him top 5-10 (I still have no idea which 12 of these guys he is going to bump in order to get that top 5 or so ranking)...Shady, Rice, foster, Forte, CJ, MJD, Gore, Ingram, ADP, Richardson, JSTEW, Bradshaw, SJAX, DMAC, Lynch, Matthews, Beanie, Spiller, etc...That's a lot of good names for him to leap frog in order to live up to the hype.
Bottom line: There IS production to be had from this Cowboys RB job but you need both these guys or neither. I seriously doubt you are going to be able to roll with one exclusively. This has "week-to-week" written all over it. You may zoom along in September, but what are you going to have in November?
The best answer is for Felix to stay in Dallas and keep the known. Then you know you have two guys that do similar things and you know how Dallas uses them. IF Felix leaves, then you have lots of questions; especially if Dallas picks up a guy like Martin or Wilson or, in general, a tough inside type runner. To me, that would be the worst case scenario because that just screams "turn it over to the guy like Martin" come November. Few things suck worse than to look like a crowned king in September and then have all your players yanked out from under you in December.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Your other posts in this thread.The first was that Murray would be a waste on rosters
Post #13 Posted 30 August 2011 - 07:59 AM
... He'll waste space on your roster barring injury.
The second saying that Tashard Choice was the second stringer and Murray wouldn't be worth anything even with injuries.
Post #25 Posted 31 August 2011 - 07:41 AM
... All those things just seem to add up to him being a very small part of the offense barring a major injury and then, even if that happened, I would think its highly likely that the cowboys would go out and take a look at a guy like Slaton if he is released to go along with choice.
The third is that in his first action he averaged less than three yards per carry and he was over-hyped and that no-one would think back to when Murray got his first start because it would not be memorable.
Post #149 Posted 17 October 2011 - 07:12 AM
... Overall, Murray is averaging 2.96/carry. I am open to "some" hype based on opportunity but the general vibe in here as if he is a superstar ready to break out smells very "ben tate-ish", except Tate is a much better player/scenario combo. People have to keep in mind that, if nothing else, if the Cowboys do not trade choice, he is going to be sharing time because he can pass protect.
We are not going to be looking back at this in a month and pointing it out as one of those moments that swung the season for FF owners.
Then after got hurt then you chimed in that he's injury prone.
Post #603 Posted 13 November 2011 - 11:39 AM
Murray was quite injury prone in college too. Not sure either of these guys are guys you can go a whole season with.
I don't agree with your assessment that Murray is overhyped.
I think Murray has special talent as a runner and thought so last August before anyone was talking about him.
If Dallas is thinking about getting rid of Felix Jones then they would likely draft another RB but I don't think they would get Martin because he will probably be gone by the time they pick in the second round. I don't think they would pass up a shot to improve their O-Line or DBs with their top pick and I think they go O-Line which should boost Murray's stock.
Shutout
Footballguy
And everything you recapped from me was true. I said all those things 8 months ago to present and they were true.Murray was getting about 4 carries a game UNTIL the injury. So, barring injury...Felix and Choice got injured.
I didn't feel a need to say Demarco was a risk for injury because I believed it to be generally well known. And as we saw, he got injured, yet again. Murray didn't swing seasons because he wasn't there to finish it (although, I will say that the buzz he generated the 5 weeks he played probably DID swing some seasons because people probably traded him).
I mean, I know he had that bright, white hot start. But there's more to it. Lots of factors (and I'm sure I have repeated them in the thread a few times). But even in the last 4 games he played last season, he was averaging less than 3.5 yards per carry.
For anyone who sees him as "top 5" and a strong player, you don't have to argue to me to prove your point. But just simply, be real with your assessment and answer a couple of easy questions:
Do you REALLY think he is going to bump a legitimate dozen or so REALLY good players like Matthews, Forte, Richardson, CJ, etc, etc, and be THAT good?
Do you really think that you can go against all these facts. He didn't make it through 8 games. People have crucified Felix for this but DeMarco gets a pass?
You don't have to exclude the big performances against the teams like the Rams, but you really should consider the scenario. A guy gets to start playing when everyone else has been grinding for two months. He has a game that would be considered a career game by almost any RB ever, and then within 5 weeks, he is averaging 3,5 YPC, not scoring as many points as Felix is now that he's returned, and then he breaks an injury and basically fulfiils what people have already said is his problem? Do you really not see the warning signs that say "temper your long-term expectations?"
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Yes. I think he's a top-five fantasy RB and said so last year.Yes. Any comparison to Felix Jones is just not very good, they are different backs.And Yes. You seem to want to exclude his good performances and concentrate on his worst, include them all.If I'm not mistaken their was a nice poster who really liked Felix Jones and made many positive and enthusiastic post concerning Felix Jones the last couple of years, even while Felix struggled.Everyone is entitled to an opinion. If the poster who pimped Felix Jones watched Felix bust the all-time Cowboy rushing record in his very first start and shatter the all-time Cowboy three-game rushing record and saw his name on the top-ten All-time NFL single game rushing list I wonder if you think he would think Felix Jones was overhyped if people noted those accomplishments?Just wndering. Hmmmn I wonder who made all of those Felix Jones posts? I can't recall... For anyone who sees him as "top 5" and a strong player, you don't have to argue to me to prove your point. But just simply, be real with your assessment and answer a couple of easy questionso you REALLY think he is going to bump a legitimate dozen or so REALLY good players like Matthews, Forte, Richardson, CJ, etc, etc, and be THAT good?Do you really think that you can go against all these facts. He didn't make it through 8 games. People have crucified Felix for this but DeMarco gets a pass? You don't have to exclude the big performances against the teams like the Rams, but you really should consider the scenario. A guy gets to start playing when everyone else has been grinding for two months. He has a game that would be considered a career game by almost any RB ever, and then within 5 weeks, he is averaging 3,5 YPC, not scoring as many points as Felix is now that he's returned, and then he breaks an injury and basically fulfiils what people have already said is his problem? Do you really not see the warning signs that say "temper your long-term expectations?"
Shutout
Footballguy
I don't understand at all how me saying "you don't have to exclude the big performances" implies in any way that I want to exclude anything. I have actually said what you are asking for: include the ENTIRE body of work. The man has about 3-4 good games on his resume and you are hailing him as the guy that is somewhere between Chris Johnson and DMAC and all others be damned. Its just rediculous. I guess you are saying it was me saying I thought highly of felix back then? Yeah, I m sure I did. There were others. And I can quantify it by saying that he has produced. He has. As a matter of fact, in weeks 12-15 last year, Demarco had a nice game (about 15 FF points) in the game that Felix wasn't in. Felix had about the same amount of points that DeMarco wasn't in. And Felix outscored DeMarco in the games they were both in. Color it any way you want, but that is a REAL unbiased look at things. Both players in the same games, during the same part of the season, when both have played about the same amount of weeks, against the same opponents and seeing how the real life team wants to use them. But we don't have to compare these two players. This is just about the general over rating of Demarco.
I get it. You want to call him a top 5 and you want to be right and you want to be able to say you were the first to call it (you've mentioned it 2-3 times now how you were the only guy beefing up DeMarco back then). If that is important to you, then good for you. But until you can dispell the number of things you are being challenged on, I don't see it. Somewhere, you have to lay down some evidence or food to think on about WHY this guy is going to be able to leap frog all these really good players or show us why he can stay healthy but hasn't and on and on. If you are going to criticize me for saying Felix will be productive, you need pick up your rock and go back to your own glass house because Felix HAS been productive. The barrier for him has been being able to stay healthy, which is the exact same barrier your guy is faced with but the difference being is I didn't say Felix was going to be a top 5 back.
Now, if you're genuinely interested in trying to make me look wrong, then you might want to pick on someone else because once you start pulling out ALL the evidence, you'll see that I called Foster before he broke out, I called Tamme when Clark went down, I called Fitz when it was said he was going to plummet, I called exactly every week that Dreesen would be a factor and score for the Texans. I'm not saying I get 'em all or even that I get most, but Point being, you can't discredit a person who has a couple of thousand of posts on a forum by criticizing them for saying a guy could be good.
You know, I don't post on here to get an "atta boy", to stroke an ego, or anything else. I post on here to share an opinion that is thought out and backed up by information that can be supported or challenged. You obviously want to challenge some things but you offer nothing supporting this top 5 thought or a way to defend the fact that the caution flag statement about DeMarco HAS actually already occurred. And that's all I'm interested in with a discussion on this: to put info out there that allows people to read the points and counter points and help them make an informed decision. To argue or figuratively stick our tongues out at one another is pointless.
I've put my info out there and, thanks to you, its been brought back out, so thanks for that.
The rest is immaterial. We can sit back and watch how things pan out and color me shocked if we never see DeMarco being worth what someone might have to pay for him...or that he will likely never be a top 5 FF RB. Again, the moral to this story is you are going to see good production out of the Dalla RBs. Just make sure you have them both if you are going to roll with them.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Well, you made it clear that you have no ego and no agenda and you've said your piece so you should be satisfied. Thanks.'Shutout said:
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Is this implying that Murray isn't a tough inside runner?'Shutout said:
Shutout
Footballguy
no, not necessarily. Just that there are more questions if the "known" situation changes. If Felix were gone and the Cowboys did bring in a guy that is known to be physical like that, and is thought of as not being injured easily, then the speculation, I believe, would raise a lot of questions.Even if it were not a rookie. Let's say, the Cowboys sign Cedric Benson from FA. I think the result would be quite a bit of speculation that the Cowboys would use that new guy more in short yardage, maybe at the goal line, maybe if they were killing a game at the end (because that new guy is known/thought to be good at that and it saves wear and tear on a guy that has had his knicks).
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Murray has well above average speed but is also built like a brickhouse. He's an extremely physical runner. I don't get you characterization at all. I've grown tired of arguing on message boards against the "injury prone" label for RBs, so if people want to continue doing so, that's fine. I agree that Martin may pose a threat to Murray's workload - but Benson? If they did sign him, he'd strictly be depth at this point. I'm not sure he's any kind of upgrade in short yardage situations. Acceleration (or burst) is just as improtant as size in short yardage and Benson's is a thing of the past.Also I'm not sure that Wilson is a great example of a "tough inside runner" - but do agree he's be a potential threat to carries (although I think he fist more into the Felix Jones CoP role).All of this is probably meaningless anyway as I don't think Jones is going anywhere and if the Cowboys waste another high draft pick on a RB when their offense is already near elite level and their secondary is full of holes then they're bound for another season of mediocrity.
az_prof
Footballguy
I like Murry a lot. The argument that his good games were against bad teams is really weak. All NFL players are NFL players. I have seen "bad" teams beat up on "good" teams more than once. Each week you have to bring your best. You have to be really careful with that kind of statistical selection bias.
What does concern me is the injury and injury prone label. That definitely has to limit his fantasy value somewhat. If I were the Dallas HC, I would definitely want to use him in a time share to keep him fresh if possible. But still, I expect he will get most TD looks and the majority of the carries.
What does concern me is the injury and injury prone label. That definitely has to limit his fantasy value somewhat. If I were the Dallas HC, I would definitely want to use him in a time share to keep him fresh if possible. But still, I expect he will get most TD looks and the majority of the carries.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
FWIW, Felix Jones is reportedly slimming back down. I think it's a good move for him no matter what the Cowboys' plans are since he's not big enough to be a power back and gaining so much weight probably hurt the speed and quickness his game is based on. But IMO it does also suggest the Cowboys are planning to use him as a COP/3rd down guy.
as a Murray owner in every dynasty league (thanks MW!), i think he is borderline Top 12 right now. He has pretty good measurables and plays on an offense that is diversified enough where opposing teams cannot scheme just for him. Having said that, for me to think he is Top 6, I would like DAL to upgrade the OL with some youth, Murray will have to stay healthy for all 16 games, and DAL doesn't spend a Top 100 pick on a RB. I can see them bringing in a veteran like SF did, especially if they trade Felix for a late round pick. I personally think a backfield of Murray/Felix/Tanner would be very good.
side bar: i am reminded when i was a big baseball fan reading Baseball America talk about a prospect that was a good mistake hitter, and guess what, major league pitchers make mistakes, too. It seems like the same fallacy when we talk about NFL defenses: some of them just aren't very good and make mistakes. If you don't take advantage of them, that is your fault. I get frustrated when I see a DAL or PIT play down to "inferior" teams and not put up points.
side bar: i am reminded when i was a big baseball fan reading Baseball America talk about a prospect that was a good mistake hitter, and guess what, major league pitchers make mistakes, too. It seems like the same fallacy when we talk about NFL defenses: some of them just aren't very good and make mistakes. If you don't take advantage of them, that is your fault. I get frustrated when I see a DAL or PIT play down to "inferior" teams and not put up points.
ChainsawU
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
I would respectfully disagree with the bolded. It is not a weak argument, although it may be a misleading one. It is pretty easy to look like a superstar against a bad team or teams. As you may recall Jerome Harrison set a franchise record of 286 yards for the Browns against KC (beating Jim Brown's old mark) which placed him at third place all-time on the single game yardage list - trailing only Jamal Lewis (295) and Adrian Peterson (296) at that time. Yet he did nothing after that and it was pretty obvious he had a career day against a poor rushing defense.
My point is (as others have noted) that the good games of Murray have almost a perfect storm quality to them. I could be wrong, but I have seen flash-in-the-pans before and I think the good games against bad teams is a valid argument until he shows us he can do it again in 2013 over the course of a season.
For disclosure purposes, I don't own Murray in any league and he is not on my target list. However I currently rank him as RB #13 overall and would take him at that level if he fell to me in a startup.
Last edited by a moderator:
Similar threads
