Hov34
Eephus's Great Great Great Love Child
Jesus, how are "progressives" ok with her.
Jesus, how are "progressives" ok with her.
We'll never know because "they" have us just where they want us. Two choices that are already bought and paid for. But, again as long as my side wins that's all we care about. We continue to look past the egregious warts because we don't have a choice and we believe our side is better than the other side. Newsflash: They are the same.What issues aren’t starkly enough drawn between the two choices we have that a 3rd party would address?Because the main two are doing such a bang up job.
But, hey keep rooting for "your" side. It's the American way.
What would a 3rd party do to alleviate the issues our government has at the moment?
Once this 3rd party actually had to govern and not just say things like “through pragmatic problem solving and reduced paperwork we will lessens healthcare costs by 75%” you are telling me people wouldn’t find them to suck as well?
I believed this talking point when I heard it from Ralph Nader in 2000.We'll never know because "they" have us just where they want us. Two choices that are already bought and paid for. But, again as long as my side wins that's all we care about. We continue to look past the egregious warts because we don't have a choice and we believe our side is better than the other side. Newsflash: They are the same.
Jesus, how are "progressives" ok with her.
They aren’t the same. This is just ridiculous. Take environmental issues. You are telling me that there is no difference? Take how we will be taxed, no difference? What kind of judges are picked, no difference? How a different president would handle COVID? How immigration would be handled? How “trade war” with China would go down? Agree to disagree.We'll never know because "they" have us just where they want us. Two choices that are already bought and paid for. But, again as long as my side wins that's all we care about. We continue to look past the egregious warts because we don't have a choice and we believe our side is better than the other side. Newsflash: They are the same.
Take Nader in 2000.I believed this talking point when I heard it from Ralph Nader in 2000.
And I may still believe it, in theory. But after seeing Trump botch the US response to the coronavirus, I am convinced that it doesn't matter if the "sides" are the same; I just want a leader who will listen to scientists.
Ok, you win. The D vs. R way is the best way. And they get so much done when they are in office. Clinton to Bush to Obama was pretty much the same and got nothing accomplished (except for making rich people richer) for 30 years, but you keep accepting this and let's see what changes. Our political system is broken.They aren’t the same. This is just ridiculous. Take environmental issues. You are telling me that there is no difference? Take how we will be taxed, no difference? What kind of judges are picked, no difference? How a different president would handle COVID? How immigration would be handled? How “trade war” with China would go down? Agree to disagree.
There are no perfect candidates. Any person who actually has to govern will be torn apart just as these candidates are. These 3rd party people have the benefit of not having actually done anything.
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) defended Sen. Kamala Harris on Sunday, saying that despite Democratic Party infighting over policy proposals, a majority of progressives understand the importance of defeating President Donald Trump come November.Jesus, how are "progressives" ok with her.
I notice you didn’t answer my question about the differences between the 2 parties. There are very stark differences.Ok, you win. The D vs. R way is the best way. And they get so much done when they are in office. Clinton to Bush to Obama was pretty much the same and got nothing accomplished (except for making rich people richer) for 30 years, but you keep accepting this and let's see what changes. Our political system is broken.
I'm not going to change anyone's minds in here. You all are firmly entrenched on "your" team - and we all want to be winners! (Even though you both lose in the long run)
Disclaimer: I will again "waste my vote" and support a 3rd party because both of "your" candidates are horrible.
Far left progressives have already moved on from Bernie. He’s now a sell out as well and part of the problem.Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) defended Sen. Kamala Harris on Sunday, saying that despite Democratic Party infighting over policy proposals, a majority of progressives understand the importance of defeating President Donald Trump come November.
Sanders spoke highly of Joe Biden’s vice presidential pick, noting that she’s “incredibly smart [and] incredibly tough.”
“I think she's an asset for the Biden campaign, and I think she's going to do great on the campaign trail,” he said of the California senator on ABC’s “This Week” with George Stephanopoulos.
This solidifies my point. She's not the best candidate (not even close) but because she's all we have (on the left) we have to grit our teeth and support her to defeat the evil orange man. Our political system is sad.Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) defended Sen. Kamala Harris on Sunday, saying that despite Democratic Party infighting over policy proposals, a majority of progressives understand the importance of defeating President Donald Trump come November.Jesus, how are "progressives" ok with her.
Sanders spoke highly of Joe Biden’s vice presidential pick, noting that she’s “incredibly smart [and] incredibly tough.”
“I think she's an asset for the Biden campaign, and I think she's going to do great on the campaign trail,” he said of the California senator on ABC’s “This Week” with George Stephanopoulos.
And, yet you have not proposed a viable alternative.This solidifies my point. She's not the best candidate (not even close) but because she's all we have (on the left) we have to grit our teeth and support her to defeat the evil orange man. Our political system is sad.
In message and rhetoric yes, but nothing gets done!!!! But you keep supporting the message and I'll keep complaining (with no clear solution). Again, you aren't going to convert me and I'm not going to open your eyes. So have a great life.I notice you didn’t answer my question about the differences between the 2 parties. There are very stark differences.
I agree that the system is a mess. Governing isn’t easy. Inject billions of dollars into anything and it isn’t going to be problematic. I question what this 3rd party does to address that.
Hopefully you get a chance to vote this year. Depending on your state it may be made difficult.
Tulsi, not even close.And, yet you have not proposed a viable alternative.
But, I would love to hear who you think would be "the best candidate" for VP for Joe Biden.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez RetweetedFar left progressives have already moved on from Bernie. He’s now a sell out as well and part of the problem.
In what world is Tulsi Gabbard a viable VP candidate for Joe Biden?Tulsi, not even close.
But she won't toe the line.
I totally disagree with you saying nothing gets done but regardless the world moves on despite what Congress does.In message and rhetoric yes, but nothing gets done!!!! But you keep supporting the message and I'll keep complaining (with no clear solution). Again, you aren't going to convert me and I'm not going to open your eyes. So have a great life.
Elaborate please. How do you feel her being on the ticket with Biden instead of Harris is politically "better" outside of your personal preference of course. I'll take three things she would bring to the ticket to electrify the base that Harris doesn't.Tulsi, not even close.
But she won't toe the line.
Just another sellout! AOC clearly isn’t far enough left or hasn’t done anything or is part of the problem.Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Retweeted
Elizabeth Warren @ewarren
@KamalaHarris will be a great partner to @JoeBiden in making our government a powerful force for good in the fight for social, racial, and economic justice.
Without knowing the role Biden wants to use the VP in - its hard to answer this question.Elaborate please. How do you feel her being on the ticket with Biden instead of Harris is politically "better" outside of your personal preference of course. I'll take three things she would bring to the ticket to electrify the base that Harris doesn't.
Actually, this question goes out to anyone who doesn't agree with the Harris pick. I'd like to hear who you think would have been better politically and why. Thanks.
This guy has totally debased himself with Biden and now Harris, it's clear that his "movement" was about sheepherding genuine progressive energy behind corrupt establishment. Just lays down in the most pitiful way for the ruling class while extracting zero tangible concessions for his support. A total humiliation for the left. What a joke.Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) defended Sen. Kamala Harris on Sunday, saying that despite Democratic Party infighting over policy proposals, a majority of progressives understand the importance of defeating President Donald Trump come November.
Sanders spoke highly of Joe Biden’s vice presidential pick, noting that she’s “incredibly smart [and] incredibly tough.”
“I think she's an asset for the Biden campaign, and I think she's going to do great on the campaign trail,” he said of the California senator on ABC’s “This Week” with George Stephanopoulos.
It does seem that the people who do the work in government realize there are differences between the 2 parties.Just another sell out, and part of the problem.
Need the German word for 'quit using Trump as an excuse to support evil'.We need a German word for “quit letting perfect be the enemy of good”. This thread recently is a good example of that. But I feel like I’m always saying that nowadays when I’m arguing with friends over pandemic response (cloth mask doesn’t even do much compared to an n95!!) and what our local schools are doing.
You and I aren’t far out of alignment. I’ve been banging the 3rd party drum around here for a long time. The stairs broken and needs a change. But I do find it interesting that you stopped your POTUS comparisons at Obama. Trump is clearly different then the previous 3 (in a bad way for many of us and not so for others).Ok, you win. The D vs. R way is the best way. And they get so much done when they are in office. Clinton to Bush to Obama was pretty much the same and got nothing accomplished (except for making rich people richer) for 30 years, but you keep accepting this and let's see what changes. Our political system is broken.
I'm not going to change anyone's minds in here. You all are firmly entrenched on "your" team - and we all want to be winners! (Even though you both lose in the long run)
Disclaimer: I will again "waste my vote" and support a 3rd party because both of "your" candidates are horrible.
Nah. Don’t need that one at all, our resident silly anarchist. :tussleshair:Need the German word for 'quit using Trump as an excuse to support evil'.
Regardless of how a 3rd party would make any change in the process life continues.You and I aren’t far out of alignment. I’ve been banging the 3rd party drum around here for a long time. The stairs broken and needs a change. But I do find it interesting that you stopped your POTUS comparisons at Obama. Trump is clearly different then the previous 3 (in a bad way for many of us and not so for others).
Oh, I agree. I don't know what Trump is. (A disaster?) He has the illusion of being an "outsider" and not part of the establishment, but in the end he's just as much a shill as the others, with even less leadership. And in that respect he's far more dangerous leading the "right" to think they have their savior to "drain the swamp". How'd that work for you Republicans?You and I aren’t far out of alignment. I’ve been banging the 3rd party drum around here for a long time. The stairs broken and needs a change. But I do find it interesting that you stopped your POTUS comparisons at Obama. Trump is clearly different then the previous 3 (in a bad way for many of us and not so for others).Ok, you win. The D vs. R way is the best way. And they get so much done when they are in office. Clinton to Bush to Obama was pretty much the same and got nothing accomplished (except for making rich people richer) for 30 years, but you keep accepting this and let's see what changes. Our political system is broken.
I'm not going to change anyone's minds in here. You all are firmly entrenched on "your" team - and we all want to be winners! (Even though you both lose in the long run)
Disclaimer: I will again "waste my vote" and support a 3rd party because both of "your" candidates are horrible.
Clearly, it's not.... he seemed pretty confident it's true. So I'm asking for his list/reasons. I doubt he'll answer (telling imo) but i think it's a valid question to those who aren't happy with the pick.Without knowing the role Biden wants to use the VP in - its hard to answer this question.
I'll try this one more time.
Harris, the candidate, is pretty strong. She is very well spoken, and carries herself well in public.
I agree.Clearly, it's not.... he seemed pretty confident it's true. So I'm asking for his list/reasons. I doubt he'll answer but i think it's a valid question to those who aren't happy with the pick.
Barbara Lee. She opposed the AUMF when it mattered the most. She stood on the right side of history when it wasn't easy to do so. It would signal that Biden is somewhat regretful of his mistakes for supporting the Iraq War, and interested in supporting a black woman in a position of power beyond just a token gesture to identity.Actually, this question goes out to anyone who doesn't agree with the Harris pick. I'd like to hear who you think would have been better politically and why. Thanks.
I'll try this one more time.
Harris, the candidate, is pretty strong. She is very well spoken, and carries herself well in public.
I find her to be very well spoken
It may be that not everyone likes what she has to say - but I think she speaks confidently and competently.
What's the point? No one is going to change your mind, are they?Clearly, it's not.... he seemed pretty confident it's true. So I'm asking for his list/reasons. I doubt he'll answer (telling imo) but i think it's a valid question to those who aren't happy with the pick.
I don't ask questions unless I'm interested in the answers and I like to understand other people's perspective. But avoid answering as you wishWhat's the point? No one is going to change your mind, are they?
Elaborate please. How do you feel her being on the ticket with Biden instead of Harris is politically "better" outside of your personal preference of course. I'll take three things she would bring to the ticket to electrify the base that Harris doesn't. Am I to assume that you believe the Iraq war is still front and center in the minds of many Democrats or something?Barbara Lee. She opposed the AUMF when it mattered the most. She stood on the right side of history when it wasn't easy to do so. It would signal that Biden is somewhat regretful of his mistakes for supporting the Iraq War, and interested in supporting a black woman in a position of power beyond just a token gesture to identity.
That would be interesting to me anyway. It wouldn't push me over the ledge, but it'd be a good selection that I would gladly give him credit for.
Fixed.As soon as these great mythical 3rd party candidates actually had to govern corporations would shred them.
That’s what happens to some extent, this is our system.Fixed.
I don't know how I'm supposed to define "politically better" if not by personal preferences. There are no empirical "politically better" metrics that I know of.The Commish said:Elaborate please. How do you feel her being on the ticket with Biden instead of Harris is politically "better" outside of your personal preference of course. I'll take three things she would bring to the ticket to electrify the base that Harris doesn't. Am I to assume that you believe the Iraq war is still front and center in the minds of many Democrats or something?
It's relatively easy. Simply look at the platform they profess to want to accomplish and start with it as a measure. If you aren't on board with the platform to begin with, that's a larger issue and sadly, campaigning isn't going to be dialed in on what you want to hear/see. It's one thing to say "I want Medicare for All", but also understand it's most likely better to shoot for a government run option in the private system already here. The first is your personal preference. The later is viewed as what's better for the party at the moment.I don't know how I'm supposed to define "politically better" if not by personal preferences. There are no empirical "politically better" metrics that I know of.
Maybe ending war isn't 'front and center' for Democrats, but it is for a lot of them. And Republicans and Independents too. There are millions of nonvoting Americans that are tired of the bipartisan warfare state. To be honest I don't understand how people can sit here and look at $740 billion dollars being pissed away on war and not center it as a prime issue.
Obama and Trump both won on messaging that was critical of US interventionism abroad, and were able to make that case because of their "outsider" status. Lee would have been a compelling figure on that front.
It doesn't matter now but I think she would have been a great pick for a Dem ticket. A lot of people wanted her for Speaker of the House.
For about ten years we hear constantly about how first candidate and then president Obama's rhetoric about how he couldn't do much of anything but we could do just about anything if we get together is evidence of Obama's "messiah complex". Now we have had five years of Trump and his supporters proclaiming that "only Trump can do" this or that. So the answer is only the same if you believe that anyone* believes that Biden is the "only one" that can save us.Oh, I agree. I don't know what Trump is. (A disaster?) He has the illusion of being an "outsider" and not part of the establishment, but in the end he's just as much a shill as the others, with even less leadership. And in that respect he's far more dangerous leading the "right" to think they have their savior to "drain the swamp". How'd that work for you Republicans?
P.S. I'm going to ask the same question in 4 years (hopefully) to the Democrats.
Spoiler alert: the answer will be the same.
I mean what's he supposed to say really? He made a deal to run as a Democrat now he's living up to it. We get it.Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) defended Sen. Kamala Harris on Sunday, saying that despite Democratic Party infighting over policy proposals, a majority of progressives understand the importance of defeating President Donald Trump come November.
Sanders spoke highly of Joe Biden’s vice presidential pick, noting that she’s “incredibly smart [and] incredibly tough.”
“I think she's an asset for the Biden campaign, and I think she's going to do great on the campaign trail,” he said of the California senator on ABC’s “This Week” with George Stephanopoulos.