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Actually even if Philly had timeouts, it has some relevance simply because it shows that Cowher chose to give the ball back to the Eagles with time on the clock rather than score again. But it is a slightly different situation in that, Pittsburgh had no way of running the clock out whereas the Broncos were trying to pick up the first down and run the clock out. I am confident in saying that atleast 50% of coaches would have run the ball. It is probably more like 90% though.How many timeouts did Philly have? Because if it was zero, then your example has no relevance.BTW, I don't understand why you're crying about this. Denver was just running out the clock, and the Philly D can't even stop a run up the middle when it knows it's coming.Here you go... from NFL.com - Steelers vs. those same Philadelphia Eagles from last season. Here's the play-by-play from the 4th quarter, with the Steelers up 27-3.
1-7-PHI7 (2:48) B.Roethlisberger kneels to PHI 8 for -1 yards.
2-8-PHI8 (2:00) B.Roethlisberger kneels to PHI 10 for -2 yards.
3-10-PHI10 (1:19) B.Roethlisberger kneels to PHI 12 for -2 yards.
4-12-PHI12 (1:19) B.Roethlisberger kneels to PHI 13 for -1 yards.
Philadelphia Eagles at 00:35
1-10-PHI1335) PENALTY on PIT-T.Kirschke, Defensive Offside, 5 yards, enforced at PHI 13 - No Play.
1-5-PHI18
That's what's called NOT humiliating your opponent, rather than piling it on like Skeletor does. Notice Reid recognized this and didn't start throwing the ball around trying to score 3 times in less than a minute.
I also think this is hilarious.When people want to credit the Denver running game, they often say "Alex Gibbs is the real reason the Broncos are so great. It's his system and his coaching that makes the difference."
I agree with this guy....Pity is more 'humiliating' than anything, if you ask me
but I can see how a Shanny hater would create something out of this as well.
No, nothing is more irritating that people who respond to every word I say about Bill Cowher by throwing out the "he can't ever win a big game" card. I was simply trying to pre-empt that. Your sig says it all - no coach can win without great players - I agree with that 100% and was simply trying to defuse any potential comments. I certainly wasn't trying to provide any insight - everyone knows Shanahan never won a playoff game without Elway as his QB.And it really isn't much ado. I happen to think there's no pride in continuing to score when the opponent is clearly beaten. I would even have given him a pass if he had 3rd teamers in there and wanted them to get some game repetitions. There's no benefit to running Tatum Bell up the middle with 30 seconds left in a 42-21 game.
I don't necessarily agree with either statement. I never played DE against the Broncos, so I don't know. There has been talk among NFL players that the guy coaches cut blocking, so draw your own conclusions.
I agree about Cowher. Looking at the QBs he's had, I think it's amazing that he's gotten to host 5 AFC championships in the last 11 seasons. Honestly, the only result of the 5 that was surprising to me was the one against the Chargers.I understand what you meant by the comment now.
I think if Gibbs's system is the one responsible for the success, and Gibbs runs a cut-block system, then Gibbs should get some of the criticism for cut-blocking. It seems like some people want to credit Gibbs for the O-line's success but then blame Shanahan for the bad things about Gibbs's system. Just be consistent is all I ask.
You're absolutely right. They both deserve credit and blame - Gibbs because he was the OL coach, and ultimately Shanahan since he is responsible for the whole team. Both should get the good and the bad.
Fair enough - I can always agree to disagree with someone who actually makes intelligent points and acts like adult rather than lobbing "take your dress off" comments.You're right, it wasn't blatant, and he's surely done worse. My only issue was that I'd seen the guy do that before and I simply thought the classy move would have been to kneel. No one is blowing this up into more than it is (to those who keep asking why it's a big ddeal - it isn't - I'm just voicing an opinion here.) I played football for years, and we never ran the score up on anyone.. if we had a big lead late, we would basically just fall on the ball. No one ever, in 4 years, came to me or our coaches pissed off that we "pitied" them but not continuing to drive the field with a huge lead. Likewise, if we got down big and the other team handed us the ball back, no one ever took it as a slap in the face - it's a show of respect not to want to humiliate your opponent when they obviously haven't had a very good day.
30) T.Bell up the middle for 6 yards, TOUCHDOWN.J.Elam extra point is GOOD, Center-M.Leach, Holder-J.Plummer.PHI 21 DEN 49, Plays: 7 Yards: 44 Possession: 4:20.
Who gives a rats ### what Reid thinks? Come on, you simply can't be serious with all of this. I think if you asked Reid, I'd be willing to bet the house that he would have preferred that his pathetic defense stopped them from even getting in position to score at the end of the game...to show some heart and play it out till the end. It's not Shanahan's fault they were a friggin sieve. Honestly, this really comes off as some wierd end around to heap praise on your beloved Cowher more than anything. Let it go.
So, having his 2 primary RBs in the game running plays with 2-3 minutes left and the score 42-21 is not running up the score, huh? He was afraid that if he didn't kneel on 4th down, the Eagles were going to get the ball back and put up 3 TDs in 25 seconds?If you're cool with it, fine I'm just calling a spade a spade. When the Steelers get a lead in the 4th quarter that is basically insurmountable, Verron Haynes comes in as the lead back, many of the starters come out, and if the game gets down to the very end, they just kneel it out. This carries a significantly decreased risk of player injury and also doesn't embarrass the opponent. Shanahan has a different method of doing things, and if you like it, that's cool. I don't, and that's my prerogative. If you think he wasn't running it up though, I have to wonder why. Just because they weren't passing, that means they weren't still trying to score?They killed almost 5 minutes making just 7 plays - all runs. perhaps stopping them once or twice might have helped? This is one of the dumbest "debates" i've seen here, and that's saying something. Anyone labeling this "running up the score" is a twit with a vendetta, nothing more, nothing less.
1-10-PHI44 (4:46) M.Anderson left tackle to PHI 26 for 18 yards (S.Brown).
1-10-PHI26 (3:59) M.Anderson up the middle to PHI 22 for 4 yards (H.Thomas; T.Cole).
2-6-PHI22 (3:16) M.Anderson up the middle to PHI 13 for 9 yards (Q.Mikell; D.Jones).
1-10-PHI13 (2:31) T.Bell left guard to PHI 10 for 3 yards (K.Adams).
2-7-PHI10 (2:00) T.Bell left tackle to PHI 9 for 1 yard (T.Cole).
3-5-PHI9 (1:15) T.Bell right tackle to PHI 6 for 3 yards (S.Brown).
4-2-PHI6
J.Elam extra point is GOOD, Center-M.Leach, Holder-J.Plummer.
PHI 21 DEN 49, Plays: 7 Yards: 44 Possession: 4:20.
The Steelers don't kneel on fourth down.I'll give you 10 bucks right now if you find a game this year where they did.
You're telling me to let it go, when you just jumped in and started name-calling and acting like a 5-year old. It's called a difference of opinion. Everyone doesn't have to conform to your way of thinking. That's what these boards are here for, genius, so people can have these debates, discussions, or chats about football. To start calling people twits because they see things differently than you is childish.Hey, maybe you're just used to watching this guy operate. What you call an "excuse" to dump praise on Cowher is actually more of a situation wherein I am a fan of a team coached by a guy like Cowher who shares my outlook on the game. Maybe stuff like having first-stringers in and scoring TDs late in the game is commonplace for Shanahan, but I am used to watching a coach who acts differently, so it stuck out to me. It's my opinion, and I am entitled to it, whether you agree or not.
So, having his 2 primary RBs in the game running plays with 2-3 minutes left and the score 42-21 is not running up the score, huh? He was afraid that if he didn't kneel on 4th down, the Eagles were going to get the ball back and put up 3 TDs in 25 seconds?If you're cool with it, fine I'm just calling a spade a spade. When the Steelers get a lead in the 4th quarter that is basically insurmountable, Verron Haynes comes in as the lead back, many of the starters come out, and if the game gets down to the very end, they just kneel it out. This carries a significantly decreased risk of player injury and also doesn't embarrass the opponent. Shanahan has a different method of doing things, and if you like it, that's cool. I don't, and that's my prerogative. If you think he wasn't running it up though, I have to wonder why. Just because they weren't passing, that means they weren't still trying to score?They killed almost 5 minutes making just 7 plays - all runs. perhaps stopping them once or twice might have helped? This is one of the dumbest "debates" i've seen here, and that's saying something. Anyone labeling this "running up the score" is a twit with a vendetta, nothing more, nothing less.
1-10-PHI44 (4:46) M.Anderson left tackle to PHI 26 for 18 yards (S.Brown).
1-10-PHI26 (3:59) M.Anderson up the middle to PHI 22 for 4 yards (H.Thomas; T.Cole).
2-6-PHI22 (3:16) M.Anderson up the middle to PHI 13 for 9 yards (Q.Mikell; D.Jones).
1-10-PHI13 (2:31) T.Bell left guard to PHI 10 for 3 yards (K.Adams).
2-7-PHI10 (2:00) T.Bell left tackle to PHI 9 for 1 yard (T.Cole).
3-5-PHI9 (1:15) T.Bell right tackle to PHI 6 for 3 yards (S.Brown).
4-2-PHI6
J.Elam extra point is GOOD, Center-M.Leach, Holder-J.Plummer.
PHI 21 DEN 49, Plays: 7 Yards: 44 Possession: 4:20.
see, this is why this is so funny, and wierd: WHO GIVES A #### WHAT THE STEELERS MIGHT HYPOTHETICALLY DO??!??!?!?!?
Because it's a basis for comparison.I don't agree with him either, but bashing the Steelers is not the way to go here. It's what he knows, so he's using them as an argument to what Denver did.
see, this is why this is so funny, and wierd: WHO GIVES A #### WHAT THE STEELERS MIGHT HYPOTHETICALLY DO??!??!?!?!?
XHaynes is the fourth-string RB, moved up to third-string right now by Staley's injury.
Precisely. At least someone gets it. I don't mind disagreements - in fact, they're what make this board interesting, but name-calling and yelling WHO GIVES A #### is completely unproductive.By the way, it's weird....not wierd.Because it's a basis for comparison.I don't agree with him either, but bashing the Steelers is not the way to go here. It's what he knows, so he's using them as an argument to what Denver did.
see, this is why this is so funny, and wierd: WHO GIVES A #### WHAT THE STEELERS MIGHT HYPOTHETICALLY DO??!??!?!?!?
That's fine, and you're entitled to that.But this board wouldn't be any fun if I just left you alone about your disagreement, and if you left me alone.
No, I prefer the give and take, and I respect you for being cool about it.
You learn something new every day. Now run along.
I do have a real question, though.Who steps in for the Steelers if Parker goes down in the first quarter tomorrow?
No. Bettis would be the every-down back and Haynes would come in as a receiving back on third downs. You also would see Staley miraculously feeling a whole lot better within a week or so.
The only thing worse than someone that doesn't know what they are talking about is that person posting 8 thousand posts on a subject that he doesn't have a clue about. Andy Reid would have done the same thing Shanahan did. There are enough reasons people don't like Shanahan. You don't need to make up reasons. I guess Bell was supposed to kneel down on the 3 after he got the first down just to make Evilgrin happy. Everybody in yhe whole civilized world knew what play was coming. The fact that the Eagles couldn't stop it is not Shanahan's fault. I have seen the Broncos choke all kinds of leads in the past. If any team could have given up a 21 point lead in 30 seconds, it would be the Broncos. The classless thing would have been to kick a FG, but they didn't do that. Now get off your high horse and talk about things that matter.
No, it's completely irrelevant. So is whatever Andy Reid might have preferred Shanahan do. Doesn't matter. The simple fact is that there was nothing even remotely wrong with how Denver ran out the game....they got the ball back with 4:46 to go in Philly territory and had to do something with it..so they ran...and ran...and ran. if Philly can't stop a play that milllions of people watching knew was coming, then that's their own damned fault. They quit....THAT's what Reid should be pissed about.Because it's a basis for comparison.I don't agree with him either, but bashing the Steelers is not the way to go here. It's what he knows, so he's using them as an argument to what Denver did.
see, this is why this is so funny, and wierd: WHO GIVES A #### WHAT THE STEELERS MIGHT HYPOTHETICALLY DO??!??!?!?!?
You really know how to initiate logical discussion.
What's amusing is how everyone who says this is "one of the dumbest debates ever" immediately follows that up by defending Skeletor.I guess it's dumb because you disagree with it.
If this doesn't matter, then why do you feel the need to post on the subject? Obviosuly, I don't know what I am talking about and am just running off at the mouth, so why bother to contribute to the thread?Fine...your contention is that the Eagles were still in the game at that point, so they were right to score again to protect that lead. Got it.
It's altar, not alter. You capitalize the first word of a sentence. Spade is also not a proper noun. I'm giving you this stuff for free, so start taking notes.I never once claimed to be unbiased. I think it's pretty clear I am no Shanahan fan. Games like yesterday's are part of the reason why.
There is something to this as well. Yes, the Eagles should have stopped them. I just thought Shanahan would have been smart to have his best offensive weapon on the sidelines with 30 seconds left in a a blowout game, and it would have shown some class to kneel on the ball rather than scoring a meaningless TD with 30 seconds left. This is my opinion - obviously many disagree.
It's not a big deal. It's well-documented that I disliked Shanahan to begin with - seeing the end of that game yesterday only reinforced it. I am not unbiased by any stretch - I just thought it was weak.Shred made a great point about the Broncos ability to blow a 21 point lead in the last 30 seconds. Very well put and very true.
It boils down to this...if you've never liked Shanny, you will add this to your list of reasons why. If you don't think Shanny is the devil himself, this isn't a big deal. No one will convince the other they are right, but it is definately insightful seeing how certain people have responded. All water under the bridge come next sunday anyway.
EvilGrin, come on, you know your argument is going down the tubes when you have to attack other people's spelling. New York Giants at 02:17
28) B.Jacobs left tackle to WAS 40 for no gain (D.Evans, L.Marshall).22) P.Ramsey kneels to WAS 39 for -1 yards.
wow, attacking my use of capitalization on a message board...what a compelling argument. See here's the thing, your reading comprehension seems to be somewhat lacking: I never said that the Eagles were still in it and Denver NEEDED to score (oops, was that too many capital letters?). The point is, which you refuse to acknowledge, is that Denver got the ball back with almost FIVE minutes left inside Philly territory and did everything they could to run it out. All philly had to do was stop them from doing what everyone on the planet knew they were going to do. They couldn't even manage that. As i've said...repeatedly, THAT is what Reid should be angry about. His team quit, and Denver finally scored a garbage TD. So what. It's football. I would never in a million years expect a team to simply give the ball back - talk about a lack of class and trying to humiliate a team. your attempts at belittling me by pointing out an errant mispelling or two do little to help your cause by the way. It simply shows what a puerile twit you are. Sorry I don't proofread every post I make on the internet.
