Denver at New England (1 Viewer)

[SeniorVBDStudent]

I was pissed bill took the wind.

Never doubt the dark lord.

 

[SoCalBroncoFan]

Manning didnt give up 31 points in defrnse. With a 24 point lead he did what you are supposed to do, run the ball and move the clock. It's not his fault the D gave up 31 points.

As for only completing 19 of 36, there were 5 drops that should have been caught.

Did Brady have a better statistical game? Yes.

Did Brady clearly outplay Manning? No.

As a Bronco fan, I hated Manning passionately. I thought he was overrated and a product of a system biased toward pumping his numbers up. Now, after getting to watch him play every week, hearing about his work ethic and how much his teammates respect him, and how much better he makes them, I am fan.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Manning didnt give up 31 points in defrnse. With a 24 point lead he did what you are supposed to do, run the ball and move the clock. It's not his fault the D gave up 31 points.

As for only completing 19 of 36, there were 5 drops that should have been caught.

Did Brady have a better statistical game? Yes.

Did Brady clearly outplay Manning? No.

As a Bronco fan, I hated Manning passionately. I thought he was overrated and a product of a system biased toward pumping his numbers up. Now, after getting to watch him play every week, hearing about his work ethic and how much his teammates respect him, and how much better he makes them, I am fan.

 

[Whizzinator]

Did Brady clearly outplay Manning? No.

How would you back up this conclusion, exactly?

 

[Big Cat]

Did Brady clearly outplay Manning? No.

How would you back up this conclusion, exactly?

It's like in golf, isn't it? Manning's 70.4 passer rating versus Brady's 107.4. Manning was 2-over par, while Brady screwed the pooch.

 

[Ballstein]

Did Brady clearly outplay Manning? No.

How would you back up this conclusion, exactly?

Don't you know Brady caused the muff? geez

 

[Carver]

This comes down to the same thing it always does with Peyton in big games... He's a vag. Really that simple. For as great as he is, when it's all on the line, and the external conditions aren't perfect for him, the guy doesnt have the sack to answer the bell. He shrinks into his shell. Belichick knows this, and he trapped him yet again.

 

[Ghost Rider]

This comes down to the same thing it always does with Peyton in big games... He's a ####.

Last week against KC was a big game - 9-0 Chiefs vs 8-1 Broncos. How did he do in that one?

Or is this that game again where we ignore his great performances in big games and act like his bad ones are the only ones that count?

 

[Carver]

This comes down to the same thing it always does with Peyton in big games... He's a ####.

Last week against KC was a big game - 9-0 Chiefs vs 8-1 Broncos. How did he do in that one?

Or is this that game again where we ignore his great performances in big games and act like his bad ones are the only ones that count?

Road game in the cold/wind Vs. his career rival(s) on the national stage is not even close to the same thing as beating an overated KC team at home with favorable weather conditions. Come'on.

 

[fruity pebbles]

This comes down to the same thing it always does with Peyton in big games... He's a vag. Really that simple. For as great as he is, when it's all on the line, and the external conditions aren't perfect for him, the guy doesnt have the sack to answer the bell. He shrinks into his shell. Belichick knows this, and he trapped him yet again.

I don't know about that. I love the Pats and Brady but Manning answered the bell in that 4th quarter. He drove down the field against the wind and tied the game.

 

[Ghost Rider]

This comes down to the same thing it always does with Peyton in big games... He's a ####.

Last week against KC was a big game - 9-0 Chiefs vs 8-1 Broncos. How did he do in that one?

Or is this that game again where we ignore his great performances in big games and act like his bad ones are the only ones that count?

Road game in the cold/wind Vs. his career rival(s) on the national stage is not even close to the same thing as beating an overated KC team at home with favorable weather conditions. Come'on.

Oh, so you mean "big games that I can arbitrarily pick the specific conditions, in regards to rivalries, weather, etc." Got it.

Hey, I won't lie: I am not overly confident about Peyton's ability to play at his usual high level in nasty, cold weather, but to act like he doesn't play great in big games in general is not only stupid, but it is showing a complete ignorance of the facts.

 

[Big Cat]

I was listening to Denver talk radio this morning on iheartradio. They were ragging on Manning big-time, saying he's proven he cannot play in cold weather.

 

[Judge Smails]

This comes down to the same thing it always does with Peyton in big games... He's a vag. Really that simple. For as great as he is, when it's all on the line, and the external conditions aren't perfect for him, the guy doesnt have the sack to answer the bell. He shrinks into his shell. Belichick knows this, and he trapped him yet again.

I don't know about that. I love the Pats and Brady but Manning answered the bell in that 4th quarter. He drove down the field against the wind and tied the game.

Agree. Ridiculous statement. Manning made some serious freakin' throws in harsh conditions. The out to D. Thomas was gold and the window he hit Tamme with was millimeters wide. Brady just plays better in bad conditions - I'll give him that. But this wasn't on Manning. Ask any team if they will take running for about 300 yards on the ground as a game plan and they will tell you yes. The first half neither team could pass. Conditions lightened up a bit in the 2nd making it possible, and Brady made the most of it. It was a game of two halves and turnovers made all the difference, as they usually do. I still give Denver the edge in good conditions as their D is more complete. NE looks like a sieve to me with the abscense of Wilfork. Hard to win if you can't stop the run at all.

 

[Big Cat]

This comes down to the same thing it always does with Peyton in big games... He's a vag. Really that simple. For as great as he is, when it's all on the line, and the external conditions aren't perfect for him, the guy doesnt have the sack to answer the bell. He shrinks into his shell. Belichick knows this, and he trapped him yet again.

I don't know about that. I love the Pats and Brady but Manning answered the bell in that 4th quarter. He drove down the field against the wind and tied the game.

Agree. Ridiculous statement. Manning made some serious freakin' throws in harsh conditions. The out to D. Thomas was gold and the window he hit Tamme with was millimeters wide. Brady just plays better in bad conditions - I'll give him that. But this wasn't on Manning. Ask any team if they will take running for about 300 yards on the ground as a game plan and they will tell you yes. The first half neither team could pass. Conditions lightened up a bit in the 2nd making it possible, and Brady made the most of it. It was a game of two halves and turnovers made all the difference, as they usually do. I still give Denver the edge in good conditions as their D is more complete. NE looks like a sieve to me with the abscense of Wilfork. Hard to win if you can't stop the run at all.

The Patriots are playing with a ton of fill-ins right now, and a handful of starters. I'll give them credit for dealing with adversity.

 

[mad sweeney]

Anyone who says this game adds to the Brady vs Manning argument didn't watch the game. Both played top notch.

What? What game were you watching? Manning did not play top notch. My goodness.

Watch again. Greast drive at the end of the game. Took it to OT even with tons of drops. He made plays, even "in the wind" (which was overrated). Ok, later guys.

Overrated ? There were at least 4 or 5 critical plays that the wind majorly affected.

 

[kyoun1e]

I still give Denver the edge in good conditions as their D is more complete. NE looks like a sieve to me with the abscense of Wilfork. Hard to win if you can't stop the run at all.

I unfortunately agree with this.

NE D is doing it with smoke, mirrors, and bad weather (yesterday). They lost arguably their top two defensive players in Wilfork and Mayo and have had Talib and Dennard in and out constantly the last few games. If Talib takes another extended trip to the sidelines, forget it.

Even with a healthy Talib, in above freezing temps, I would not want to face Denver again.

 

[Big Cat]

RE: Bad weather. In northern climates, especially after November 1, that's all part of the game. Everything counts. All the more reason to have Superbowls in northern climates as well, especially if you're going to have half of a 16-game season played on "cold" weather.

 

[devouredbychaos]

All these Donkeys homers just can't get over the simple fact that Brady is truly better then Manning

 

[Big Cat]

All these Donkeys homers just can't get over the simple fact that Brady is truly better then Manning

. Brady doesn't need a team full of superstars to make hay. He makes everyone look like a superstar. Not so much with Manning.

 

[PatsWillWin]

This comes down to the same thing it always does with Peyton in big games... He's a ####.

Last week against KC was a big game - 9-0 Chiefs vs 8-1 Broncos. How did he do in that one?

Or is this that game again where we ignore his great performances in big games and act like his bad ones are the only ones that count?

Yeah, hard to get a bigger game than taking on Alex Smith at home.

 

[PatsWillWin]

I still give Denver the edge in good conditions as their D is more complete. NE looks like a sieve to me with the abscense of Wilfork. Hard to win if you can't stop the run at all.

I unfortunately agree with this.

NE D is doing it with smoke, mirrors, and bad weather (yesterday). They lost arguably their top two defensive players in Wilfork and Mayo and have had Talib and Dennard in and out constantly the last few games. If Talib takes another extended trip to the sidelines, forget it.

Even with a healthy Talib, in above freezing temps, I would not want to face Denver again.

The playoffs still happen in January, right?

 

[Buffaloes]

This comes down to the same thing it always does with Peyton in big games... He's a ####.

Last week against KC was a big game - 9-0 Chiefs vs 8-1 Broncos. How did he do in that one?

Or is this that game again where we ignore his great performances in big games and act like his bad ones are the only ones that count?

Yeah, hard to get a bigger game than taking on Alex Smith at home.

would the game feel bigger to Pats fans if it were Geno Smith or Mark Sanchez instead of Alex Smith?

 

[PatsWillWin]

Brady's game winning drive was a punt and two kneel downs.

His own coach chose the wind over putting the ball in Brady's hands.

Team sport, both QBs were given different opportunities at different times.

1) He kinda had something to do with the 31 unanswered points.

2) This is stupid. How do the Patriots win the game without the ball being in Brady's hands? Belichick took the wind because Manning was 6 for 16 for 4 yards and 1 INT throwing int he wind last night.

3) I guess, but one of the QB's "opportunities" included being spotted a defensive touchdowns and two turnovers, leading to an easy 24 point lead in the first quarter; he couldn't hold it.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

All these Donkeys homers just can't get over the simple fact that Brady is truly better then Manning

. Brady doesn't need a team full of superstars to make hay. He makes everyone look like a superstar. Not so much with Manning.

Hasn't seemed like that outside of maybe 3 games this year.

 

[PatsWillWin]

This comes down to the same thing it always does with Peyton in big games... He's a ####.

Last week against KC was a big game - 9-0 Chiefs vs 8-1 Broncos. How did he do in that one?

Or is this that game again where we ignore his great performances in big games and act like his bad ones are the only ones that count?

Yeah, hard to get a bigger game than taking on Alex Smith at home.

would the game feel bigger to Pats fans if it were Geno Smith or Mark Sanchez instead of Alex Smith?

Har har.

 

[PatsWillWin]

All these Donkeys homers just can't get over the simple fact that Brady is truly better then Manning

. Brady doesn't need a team full of superstars to make hay. He makes everyone look like a superstar. Not so much with Manning.

Hasn't seemed like that outside of maybe 3 games this year.

He probably didn't say that Brady does it every single game, more of an over the life of his career thing. Still, it has felt like it at points even this year. Brady relies on guys like Kenbrell Thompkins to catch a game winner over the Saints with no time left, or uses Julian Edelman last night. In contrast you have Peyton Manning with the best WR's in the league and a 24 point lead - not good enough.

 

[sporthenry]

All these Donkeys homers just can't get over the simple fact that Brady is truly better then Manning

. Brady doesn't need a team full of superstars to make hay. He makes everyone look like a superstar. Not so much with Manning.

Based on the Pro Bowl and 1000+ yard receivers stats last night, it would appear to be the other way around. Now it becomes a chicken or the egg thing. Are they Pro Bowlers or 1000+ receivers b/c of Peyton or are they just that good? Would Decker or Thomas be having nearly the same amount of success with other teams?

 

[Ghost Rider]

This comes down to the same thing it always does with Peyton in big games... He's a ####.

Last week against KC was a big game - 9-0 Chiefs vs 8-1 Broncos. How did he do in that one?

Or is this that game again where we ignore his great performances in big games and act like his bad ones are the only ones that count?

Yeah, hard to get a bigger game than taking on Alex Smith at home.

By that logic, Brady playing well in SB 38 means nothing since how is playing Jake Delhomme on a neutral field a big game?

 

[kyoun1e]

All these Donkeys homers just can't get over the simple fact that Brady is truly better then Manning

. Brady doesn't need a team full of superstars to make hay. He makes everyone look like a superstar. Not so much with Manning.

Based on the Pro Bowl and 1000+ yard receivers stats last night, it would appear to be the other way around. Now it becomes a chicken or the egg thing. Are they Pro Bowlers or 1000+ receivers b/c of Peyton or are they just that good? Would Decker or Thomas be having nearly the same amount of success with other teams?

Good lord...Manning lovers said the same thing about Harrison, Wayne, and Clark back in their hey day.

The more things change...

 

[ffrookie]

I don't get this at all. Manning or Brady didn't win this, it was all because of a stupid play by the Broncos return team. Otherwise, most likely this game ends up a tie.

 

[fruity pebbles]

I don't get this at all. Manning or Brady didn't win this, it was all because of a stupid play by the Broncos return team. Otherwise, most likely this game ends up a tie.

Yep. Secret Agent Welker to the rescue.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I don't get this at all. Manning or Brady didn't win this, it was all because of a stupid play by the Broncos return team. Otherwise, most likely this game ends up a tie.

after brady ran off 28 points in 16 min

that helped a bit

but I will agree that manning didn't win this

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I don't get this at all. Manning or Brady didn't win this, it was all because of a stupid play by the Broncos return team. Otherwise, most likely this game ends up a tie.

Yep. Secret Agent Welker to the rescue.

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/catch_all/nfl_image/brady-welker-120506-ts.jpg

 

[PatsWillWin]

This comes down to the same thing it always does with Peyton in big games... He's a ####.

Last week against KC was a big game - 9-0 Chiefs vs 8-1 Broncos. How did he do in that one?

Or is this that game again where we ignore his great performances in big games and act like his bad ones are the only ones that count?

Yeah, hard to get a bigger game than taking on Alex Smith at home.

By that logic, Brady playing well in SB 38 means nothing since how is playing Jake Delhomme on a neutral field a big game?

Huh? I never said that the game against the Chiefs was "meaningless." I simply said that it was not a big game, at least not as compared to playing Brady at Gillette. I don't even think that's arguable.

 

[Mile High]

This comes down to the same thing it always does with Peyton in big games... He's a ####.

Last week against KC was a big game - 9-0 Chiefs vs 8-1 Broncos. How did he do in that one?

Or is this that game again where we ignore his great performances in big games and act like his bad ones are the only ones that count?

Yeah, hard to get a bigger game than taking on Alex Smith at home.

By that logic, Brady playing well in SB 38 means nothing since how is playing Jake Delhomme on a neutral field a big game?

Huh? I never said that the game against the Chiefs was "meaningless." I simply said that it was not a big game, at least not as compared to playing Brady at Gillette. I don't even think that's arguable.

Maybe not a big game to Pats fans but Most Denver fans think the KC games were/are bigger. Most of us though we would lose the game to NE since it was there.

 

[Todem]

So uh.....here is my story about this game.

I laid the 2.5.........halftime I look at my wife and said....oh we got this one tonight. "Coming to bed honey"?

Naaaa I want to watch the 3rd quarter and see how much more Moreno is going to gash them for being he is on one of my squads.

Nausea ensues.

 

[pats3in4]

bostonfred

I don't know what was better: bostonfred's first half or the Patriots' second half.

 

[bostonfred]

Are they Pro Bowlers or 1000+ receivers b/c of Peyton or are they just that good? Would Decker or Thomas be having nearly the same amount of success with other teams?

Thomas dealt with injuries early in his career, but in his final seven games with Tim Tebow, Thomas had 35 catches for 745 yards and 4 TDs. That's a pace for 80 catches, 1703 yards and 9 TDs. In 16 games with Manning last year, Thomas had 94 catches, 1434 and 10 TDs. Tebow connected with Thomas for over 200 yards and a TD in Denver's first playoff win, and followed up with almost 100 yards against New England the following week. With Manning, Thomas had just 37 yards and a TD while losing their only playoff game together.

As a rookie in 2010, Eric Decker was listed as a kick returner, not a wide receiver. In 2011, he moved into the WR role and caught 44 passes for 612 yards and 8 TDs, He did most of that damage in four games with Kyle Orton, with 20 catches for 270 yards and 4 TDs before Orton was hurt and supplanted by Tebow in week 5. While it's unreasonable to extrapolate his pace for 16 games, it would have been 80 catches for 1080 yards and 16 TDs. With Manning, he had 85 catches for 1064 yards and 13 TDs - virtually identical numbers. Of course, this assumes that he would have continued to have the ideal situation of Kyle Orton throwing him the ball all season.

As a rookie in 1996, Marvin Harrison had 64/836/8 catching the ball from Jim Harbaugh. For those of you who are too young to remember, Harbaugh is a surprisingly good coach considering his talent as a QB led them to early enough draft picks to acquire Peyton Manning first overall. In 1997, Harrison had 73/866/6, showing some improvement. In 1998, Manning's rookie year, Harrison continued to develop, and had 59/776/7 in 12 games - a pace for about 79/1060/9. In 1999, Harrison blew up, posting 1400 yards a year for the next four years.

That same year, Manning's running back, healthy for the first time in years, caught an astonishing 86 passes for 908 yards and 4 TDs. The Colts let him go, and on his new team, that back improved on those numbers, with 87 for 1048 and 5 TDs. That back's name was Marshall Faulk.

In 2010, with Peyton Manning, Reggie Wayne caught 111 passes for 1355 yards and 6 TDs. In 2012, with rookie QB Andrew Luck, Wayne caught 106 passes for 1355 yards and 5 TDs. That's right, the exact same number of yards as he did with Manning. In 2011, however, with Curtis Painter and co, Wayne had 75 catches for 960 yards and 4 TDs. All

In 2012, Wes Welker had 118 catches for 1354 yards and 6 TDs. In the first eleven games of 2013, Welker has 65 catches for 679 yards and 9 TDs. That's a pace for roughly 100 catches, 1000 yards and 14 TDs. You could make a case that either one is a "better" season.

Of the players I mentioned, Welker and Decker were not first round picks. All of them showed signs of being similarly good with other QBs. And I didn't even get to Dallas Clark, Edgerrin James, Marcus Pollard, Brandon Stokley or Julius Thomas - a list that includes a couple more first rounders/pro bowlers. That doesn't mean that other QBs would have done as well with those receivers as Manning did - he's clearly one of the best to ever play the position, especially when it comes to utilizing talented weapons. But there really isn't a chicken or egg thing with the receivers. All these guys were legitimately good with or without him.

What we don't know is whether Manning would be Manning without all those stud receivers. I mean, he would certainly have been an outstanding QB. But would he have set records if his teams hadn't invested so heavily in offense? He never had a year without great targets, so we'll never know.

The same is not true with Brady. We've seen him win Superbowls with Troy Brown, Patten and Givens. We saw him excel with slants and screens to make up for their poor blocking and running backs. We saw him excel handing off to Dillon and developing rookie WRs to the point that Branch won a Superbowl MVP and Seattle gave a first round pick for him because they thought it was Branch who made Brady and not the other way around. We saw him take Reche Caldwell - that's the biggest name receiver he had - and a bunch of other scrubs to a big lead in the AFCCG in a game very much like the one played last night. We saw him set an NFL record for touchdowns in his first season ever playing with Moss and Welker. Imagine that - hi Randy, my name is Tom. I'm going to help you set an NFL record for touchdowns, while I set one, too, and also help the team set the all time scoring record, and by the way, I'll help our new friend Wes over here set some receptions records, too. We saw him lose Moss and not miss a beat - in fact he went on to win an MVP and set the interceptions record. We saw him transition to a two TE offense, and do so well that he passed the single season yardage record set by Marino three decades before. And he helped Gronk set the TE record while he was at it. Then he lost all those guys - Gronk to a slow recovery, Welker to free agency, Hernandez to murdering or something, Lloyd to we don't want you anymore - and he just picked up with an all new set of rookie free agents and a second round pick, and kept this team humming along even though Ridley struggled and the rookies were dropping balls and the defense was hemmoraghing players like Wilfork and Mayo - and here they are, the favorites to win the second seed, and in serious contention for the top seed in the conference.

There's no "chicken or egg thing" with Manning's receivers - we know they were good. There's no chicken or egg thing with Brady and his receivers - we know he turned chicken #### into chicken salad. But what we'll never know is whether Manning could have done the same. And while people like to point out that Brady is the winningest quarterback in NFL history and won those Superbowls because he had so much surrounding talent, the reality is that Manning enjoyed far more offensive talent, and that his success has been entirely predicated on having players that respond to his audibles and know which route adjustments to make. Brady's adjusted seemlessly to systems and players, but Manning had to bring the system he was comfortable with to Denver because that's something he's never had to do. And that's just one more argument in favor of Brady being the better player - and quite possibly the best of all time.

 

[ryno1980]

To me, it's real simple. They've had equally successful regular-season careers. Brady has the slightest of slight edge with some clutch performances in the biggest games. I won't tell my grandkids about Tom Brady being the greatest of all-time because the argument that he did it with lesser talent at receiver.

The guy has had Randy Moss and gronkowski, two all time greats - or on way to being in gronks case - at their posiions. They've both been great and BOTH made people around them much better football players.

Over analyzing one game is pretty silly.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I believe the game will be replayed on nfln wed 9p est, fyi

 

[dansav]

It still boggles my mind that there is even a Brady/Manning debate.

Brady best all time reg season winning %, QB of team scoring the most points in a single season, holds record for most post season wins 17, most single season TDs, oh and 3 SB rings w 2 SB MVPs.......it is harder to win in the NFL now then it has ever been there is far more parody then in the years past! It really is mind blowing that people refuse to give Brady his due.....a QB that has always done more w less than Manning .....I ask what else does he have to do to prove himself????

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

It still boggles my mind that there is even a Brady/Manning debate.

Brady best all time reg season winning %, QB of team scoring the most points in a single season, holds record for most post season wins 17, most single season TDs, oh and 3 SB rings w 2 SB MVPs.......it is harder to win in the NFL now then it has ever been there is far more parody then in the years past! It really is mind blowing that people refuse to give Brady his due.....a QB that has always done more w less than Manning .....I ask what else does he have to do to prove himself????

manning has never had a run game or defense to back him up like brady has -- sunday night just another example.

 

[dansav]

Koolaid what does that have to do with the price of tea in china? Your missing my point Brady is much better. The points you make have no baring. Imagine if Brady played in a dome?

 

[ryno1980]

It still boggles my mind that there is even a Brady/Manning debate.

Brady best all time reg season winning %, QB of team scoring the most points in a single season, holds record for most post season wins 17, most single season TDs, oh and 3 SB rings w 2 SB MVPs.......it is harder to win in the NFL now then it has ever been there is far more parody then in the years past! It really is mind blowing that people refuse to give Brady his due.....a QB that has always done more w less than Manning .....I ask what else does he have to do to prove himself????

This just isn't factual. The reality is the years NE won super bowls, the Pats defense ranked 6th, 2nd and 1st in points allowed. The Patriots' overall system on both sides of the ball was superior to what Manning had. I really have no reason to be subjective toward one or the other, but I've enjoyed watching them both pull off great wins. Great leaders. Both all-time greats. What's mind blowing is the need to declare one better than the other.

And it's parity. There's far more parity.

 

[Ghost Rider]

It still boggles my mind that there is even a Brady/Manning debate.

Brady best all time reg season winning %, QB of team scoring the most points in a single season, holds record for most post season wins 17, most single season TDs, oh and 3 SB rings w 2 SB MVPs.......it is harder to win in the NFL now then it has ever been there is far more parody then in the years past! It really is mind blowing that people refuse to give Brady his due.....a QB that has always done more w less than Manning .....I ask what else does he have to do to prove himself????

You're kidding, right? Who doesn't give Brady his due? Everyone doesn't have to call him the best QB ever, or better than Manning, to have given him his due. I am pretty sure everyone with a brain and two eyes considers Brady one of the top quarterbacks to ever play the game. He IS given his due.

 

[Run It Up]

This thread is quickly approaching how bad the NE vs CAR thread from last week was.

 

[Green and Gold]

It still boggles my mind that there is even a Brady/Manning debate.

Brady best all time reg season winning %, QB of team scoring the most points in a single season, holds record for most post season wins 17, most single season TDs, oh and 3 SB rings w 2 SB MVPs.......it is harder to win in the NFL now then it has ever been there is far more parody then in the years past! It really is mind blowing that people refuse to give Brady his due.....a QB that has always done more w less than Manning .....I ask what else does he have to do to prove himself????

manning has never had a run game or defense to back him up like brady has -- sunday night just another example.

Sunday night was an example of manning having no run game?

 

[Hoss Style]

Koolaid what does that have to do with the price of tea in china? Your missing my point Brady is much better. The points you make have no baring. Imagine if Brady played in a dome?

Interesting interview with Rodney Harrison and Tony Dungy yesterday. Tony Dungy says he still thinks Payton is the greatest of this era. I took that with a grain of salt.

Later, though, Harrison was on (who is openly a Pats homer) and he was asked if there was any way he could convince Dungy that Payton was not as good as Brady. Harrison's response was "No", and he then followed up with he shouldn't have to - that if Payton were on the Pats all these years he'd have the same number of Rings as Brady. He also mentioned that while Brady hasn't had as many offensive weapons as Payton through the years, Brady had a much better defense to rely upon.

He made it clear that he still thought Brady was the greatest, but he also emphasized that Manning would be on the same level if roles were switched. I'll take the word of someone who was in the locker room and saw everything that went on - unless someone here with more experience on what goes on in game and behind the scenes weighs in. Harrison is a guy who played against Manning and knew how hard they had to work to defend him - knows more than any of us here how good of a QB Manning is - and Rodney gave Manning his due.

I thought it was a nice moment of frankness from Harrison and nice to hear an unbiased opinion from a Pats guy. I respect that.

 

[bostonfred]

Koolaid what does that have to do with the price of tea in china? Your missing my point Brady is much better. The points you make have no baring. Imagine if Brady played in a dome?

Interesting interview with Rodney Harrison and Tony Dungy yesterday. Tony Dungy says he still thinks Payton is the greatest of this era. I took that with a grain of salt.Later, though, Harrison was on (who is openly a Pats homer) and he was asked if there was any way he could convince Dungy that Payton was not as good as Brady. Harrison's response was "No", and he then followed up with he shouldn't have to - that if Payton were on the Pats all these years he'd have the same number of Rings as Brady. He also mentioned that while Brady hasn't had as many offensive weapons as Payton through the years, Brady had a much better defense to rely upon.

He made it clear that he still thought Brady was the greatest, but he also emphasized that Manning would be on the same level if roles were switched. I'll take the word of someone who was in the locker room and saw everything that went on - unless someone here with more experience on what goes on in game and behind the scenes weighs in. Harrison is a guy who played against Manning and knew how hard they had to work to defend him - knows more than any of us here how good of a QB Manning is - and Rodney gave Manning his due.

I thought it was a nice moment of frankness from Harrison and nice to hear an unbiased opinion from a Pats guy. I respect that.

So you agree with harrison that brady is the best ever? Or you agree with harrison's unbiased assessment that the defense he was on was the key to their winning ways?

 

[ryno1980]

Koolaid what does that have to do with the price of tea in china? Your missing my point Brady is much better. The points you make have no baring. Imagine if Brady played in a dome?

Interesting interview with Rodney Harrison and Tony Dungy yesterday. Tony Dungy says he still thinks Payton is the greatest of this era. I took that with a grain of salt.Later, though, Harrison was on (who is openly a Pats homer) and he was asked if there was any way he could convince Dungy that Payton was not as good as Brady. Harrison's response was "No", and he then followed up with he shouldn't have to - that if Payton were on the Pats all these years he'd have the same number of Rings as Brady. He also mentioned that while Brady hasn't had as many offensive weapons as Payton through the years, Brady had a much better defense to rely upon.

He made it clear that he still thought Brady was the greatest, but he also emphasized that Manning would be on the same level if roles were switched. I'll take the word of someone who was in the locker room and saw everything that went on - unless someone here with more experience on what goes on in game and behind the scenes weighs in. Harrison is a guy who played against Manning and knew how hard they had to work to defend him - knows more than any of us here how good of a QB Manning is - and Rodney gave Manning his due.

I thought it was a nice moment of frankness from Harrison and nice to hear an unbiased opinion from a Pats guy. I respect that.

So you agree with harrison that brady is the best ever? Or you agree with harrison's unbiased assessment that the defense he was on was the key to their winning ways?

That's not what Harrison said Fred. The defense was a huge key, thats a fact. So was Brady. But Brady didn't have to win despite his d like manning did