Derek Anderson - Since the 2nd Steeler game (1 Viewer)

[DawgPoundNJ]

After a hot start, I think it became clear later that Anderson is what he is -- a substandard QB with questionable decision making ability. He has a low completion % and forces too many balls. If not for the skills of Winslow and Braylon he wouldn't have looked as good as he did. People hanging their hat on Anderson for the future will pay for it. He's a 1/2 year wonder and that's all.

Exactly. NFL guys on Sirius talk about this all the time. Look at guys like Vince Young and Leinart last year, hot start and then they come back to reality of dealing with challenge of NFL once teamd get a few games worth of tape to work worth.

The same guys on Sirius that predicted no more than two wins for the Browns? Anderson may hit, he may miss in the long run. However, almost EVERY young QB/1st year starter goes through a lull as teams learn their weaknesses. One of the most loved QBs in Browns history Bernie Kosar never even came close to 28 TDs in a season, and since a Steeler fan started this thread, Hall of Famer and career 70.9 QB Rating Terry Bradshaw had 28 TDs once, in 1978 where he also had 20 INTs. Anderson has 28 TDs and 18 INTs. Pretty good production for a backup QB going into the season for a team expected to compete for the worst in the league. Now all the sudden they are loaded, with the skills of Braylon, Winslow, Lewis, etc.... But if you want to play both sides, go ahead.

It's clear that I'm not the biggest Anderson fan on the board, but he has done a heck of a job for a 24 year old who took over a team in the middle of week 1. He has the chance to be really good, but the jury is still out.

I like Anderson and am really grateful for the best season in recent memory, but like I have said in other threads the ceiling for Quinn is way higher. If trading Anderson will get us some help on the defensive line, we have to do it. As many haters as Anderson has, there are as many legitimate football guys that are sold on him.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I'm a DA fan, but going forward you guys better check out the '08 schedule versus '07!

The Browns had a soft schedule. The Browns also faced the #1 defense in the Steelers, on the road, and Derek Anderson shredded them with 3 TD passes, 0 INTs, and 28 points. The Browns defense lost that one.

16-35 for 45.7% 123 yds does not constitute shredding a defense.

Precisely. He did look very sharp on the opening drive, but was terrible thereafter. If you look at his #s from the end of the opening drive on, they're positively brutal. Yes, he had 3 TDs, and all credit to him for that, but two of those came on drives that started from the PIT 18 and the PIT 4. You don't need to do much "shredding" to score from there. Second half, I remember at least three times where I actually exhaled audibly with relief because he had a wide open receiver that would have picked up good yardage and/or a first down and DA threw an uncatchable ball.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

One of the most loved QBs in Browns history Bernie Kosar never even came close to 28 TDs in a season, and since a Steeler fan started this thread, Hall of Famer and career 70.9 QB Rating Terry Bradshaw had 28 TDs once, in 1978 where he also had 20 INTs. Anderson has 28 TDs and 18 INTs.

Not disagreeing that Anderson has exceeded expectations to date, but passing numbers now and in the 70s are completely different. Comparing stats across eras is ridiculous. I'm as big a Roethlisberger fan as you'll find, but good luck selling him as a better QB than Bradshaw because he has 30+ TDs this year and Bradshaw topped out at 28. Ben needs at least 2 more rings and a few more Pro Bowl berths before he even gets in the conversation.

 

[DawgPoundNJ]

One of the most loved QBs in Browns history Bernie Kosar never even came close to 28 TDs in a season, and since a Steeler fan started this thread, Hall of Famer and career 70.9 QB Rating Terry Bradshaw had 28 TDs once, in 1978 where he also had 20 INTs. Anderson has 28 TDs and 18 INTs.

Not disagreeing that Anderson has exceeded expectations to date, but passing numbers now and in the 70s are completely different. Comparing stats across eras is ridiculous. I'm as big a Roethlisberger fan as you'll find, but good luck selling him as a better QB than Bradshaw because he has 30+ TDs this year and Bradshaw topped out at 28. Ben needs at least 2 more rings and a few more Pro Bowl berths before he even gets in the conversation.

Did I say anyone was better than anyone else? I was making a point that numbers wise Anderson has had an impressive season. Wins wise as well, 9-5 as a starter. Stats, whether "rediculous" or not, are the only way to compare players of different eras. Yeah, Bradshaw won titles, but it was the "Steel Curtain" not the "Steel Offense," right? A mediocre Dilfer, Doug Williams, and Mark Rypien won Super Bowls as well but of course they do not get the edge over Marino who hasn't won jack. If you don't have stats to argue with, all you are is a 70 year old barber with a big, red alkie nose that continues to live in memory lane with his Bart Starrs, Johnny Unitases, and Fran Tarkentons..

 

[Evilgrin 72]

One of the most loved QBs in Browns history Bernie Kosar never even came close to 28 TDs in a season, and since a Steeler fan started this thread, Hall of Famer and career 70.9 QB Rating Terry Bradshaw had 28 TDs once, in 1978 where he also had 20 INTs. Anderson has 28 TDs and 18 INTs.

Not disagreeing that Anderson has exceeded expectations to date, but passing numbers now and in the 70s are completely different. Comparing stats across eras is ridiculous. I'm as big a Roethlisberger fan as you'll find, but good luck selling him as a better QB than Bradshaw because he has 30+ TDs this year and Bradshaw topped out at 28. Ben needs at least 2 more rings and a few more Pro Bowl berths before he even gets in the conversation.

Did I say anyone was better than anyone else? I was making a point that numbers wise Anderson has had an impressive season. Wins wise as well, 9-5 as a starter. Stats, whether "rediculous" or not, are the only way to compare players of different eras. Yeah, Bradshaw won titles, but it was the "Steel Curtain" not the "Steel Offense," right? A mediocre Dilfer, Doug Williams, and Mark Rypien won Super Bowls as well but of course they do not get the edge over Marino who hasn't won jack. If you don't have stats to argue with, all you are is a 70 year old barber with a big, red alkie nose that continues to live in memory lane with his Bart Starrs, Johnny Unitases, and Fran Tarkentons..

Stats are the only way to compare players of different eras. Let me chew on that one for a while.No, they aren't. In fact, you can all but throw stats out the window when comparing players of different eras. Using the Bradshaw example, if you take the 3 seasons of his career in which he was 1st team All-Pro (not Pro Bowl, All-Pro) - his average stats were :56% comp - 2,898 yards - 24 TD - 6.4 ypaThese were considered 1st team All-NFL numbers in the 1970s. Where would these numbers put Bradshaw on the 2007 league leaders list?Completion percentage - 28thYards - 16thTDs - 9th(T)Yards per attempt - 24thSo, the same statistics in the key metrics that made Bradshaw an All-Pro in the 70s would make him an average to below average starter in 2007. But this is the "only way to compare players of different eras?" What about stats relative to the era itself? What about using your eyes?Also, if you're going to quote me, please spell the words you're quoting correctly, as I did (see "rediculous".) Thanks.

 

[DawgPoundNJ]

Stats are one part of it, and you are right when you compare a player versus his peers of the day.

However, your argument becomes null and void when you turn to spelling smack.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Stats are one part of it, and you are right when you compare a player versus his peers of the day. However, your argument becomes null and void when you turn to spelling smack.

It wasn't smack, it's just a pet peeve of mine. It must be the journalist in me. Didn't mean to seem petty.However, I will go to my grave believing stats are only relative to such an argument if you can prove the mitigating factors that precipitated those stats are constant on both sides of the equation. Comparing QBs of the 70s and the 00s does not qualify.. in fact, I'd say that it's blatantly obvious from the #s I posted that the converse is true beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[DawgPoundNJ]

Fair enough, and as an MBA 3.98 (A- in Business Law killed my 4.0) that has some things published, you killed me in pointing that out.

That said, the QB rating is a flawed stat, but is pretty good at telling efficiency. I couldn't believe that Bradshaw's rating hovered around 70. I think of all the stats, comparing QB rating across eras is reasonable.

That said, I'm not saying that Anderson is better than Bradshaw.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Fair enough, and as an MBA 3.98 (A- in Business Law killed my 4.0) that has some things published, you killed me in pointing that out. That said, the QB rating is a flawed stat, but is pretty good at telling efficiency. I couldn't believe that Bradshaw's rating hovered around 70. I think of all the stats, comparing QB rating across eras is reasonable. That said, I'm not saying that Anderson is better than Bradshaw.

QB rating is probably the most reasonable, but it's also an amalgam of all the other stats, so whatever historical inconsistencies exist in the other stat categories will be built into the QB rating comparison, it will just be somewhat mitigated.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Fair enough, and as an MBA 3.98 (A- in Business Law killed my 4.0) that has some things published, you killed me in pointing that out. That said, the QB rating is a flawed stat, but is pretty good at telling efficiency. I couldn't believe that Bradshaw's rating hovered around 70. I think of all the stats, comparing QB rating across eras is reasonable. That said, I'm not saying that Anderson is better than Bradshaw.

Also, I would have hoped for at least a 3.99 from someone from central NJ (I'm from Freehold myself)..

 

[DawgPoundNJ]

My wife and I moved to Summerville, SC (just outside of Charleston) back in February, and are trying like hell to get back to the Middletown area. I know Freehold well, beautiful area with a lot of old school charm. There are some awesome Jewish delis on Route 9 over there too..

 

[CA_7]

After a hot start, I think it became clear later that Anderson is what he is -- a substandard QB with questionable decision making ability. He has a low completion % and forces too many balls. If not for the skills of Winslow and Braylon he wouldn't have looked as good as he did. People hanging their hat on Anderson for the future will pay for it. He's a 1/2 year wonder and that's all.

Exactly. NFL guys on Sirius talk about this all the time. Look at guys like Vince Young and Leinart last year, hot start and then they come back to reality of dealing with challenge of NFL once teamd get a few games worth of tape to work worth.

The same guys on Sirius that predicted no more than two wins for the Browns? Anderson may hit, he may miss in the long run. However, almost EVERY young QB/1st year starter goes through a lull as teams learn their weaknesses. One of the most loved QBs in Browns history Bernie Kosar never even came close to 28 TDs in a season, and since a Steeler fan started this thread, Hall of Famer and career 70.9 QB Rating Terry Bradshaw had 28 TDs once, in 1978 where he also had 20 INTs. Anderson has 28 TDs and 18 INTs. Pretty good production for a backup QB going into the season for a team expected to compete for the worst in the league. Now all the sudden they are loaded, with the skills of Braylon, Winslow, Lewis, etc.... But if you want to play both sides, go ahead.

They were analyzing past performance of young starting QBs, not predicting Anderson would eventually fail. Can see how my reply might imply that but seems like something was edited from the original post I quoted about NFL teams breaking down new QBs after 5-6 games, not sure what happened.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

My wife and I moved to Summerville, SC (just outside of Charleston) back in February, and are trying like hell to get back to the Middletown area. I know Freehold well, beautiful area with a lot of old school charm. There are some awesome Jewish delis on Route 9 over there too..

And how I miss those delis.......:imaginingapastramionryewithmustard:

 

[Black]

Couch Potato wrote:After a hot start, I think it became clear later that Anderson is what he is -- a substandard QB with questionable decision making ability. He has a low completion % and forces too many balls. If not for the skills of Winslow and Braylon he wouldn't have looked as good as he did. People hanging their hat on Anderson for the future will pay for it. He's a 1/2 year wonder and that's all.

In 2007, after a red-hot start (and huge Thanksgiving game), Romo had very average stats the rest of the year.I agree, a new guy off the bench has an advantage, but once teams get game tape, they can watch their tendencies. And, as was mentioned earlier, the good quarterbacks can react to that and hopefully grow as QBs.

 

[DawgPoundNJ]

My wife and I moved to Summerville, SC (just outside of Charleston) back in February, and are trying like hell to get back to the Middletown area. I know Freehold well, beautiful area with a lot of old school charm. There are some awesome Jewish delis on Route 9 over there too..

And how I miss those delis.......:imaginingapastramionryewithmustard:

I just had one last week when I was up for Christmas on marble rye with mozzarella and mustard... mmmm.... If you are ever back, you have to head up 9 to Raritan Center in Edison and try a pastrami from Harold's New York Style Deli... No lie- the sandwiches are a foot high. Perfect for gluttonous fatbodies like myself.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

My wife and I moved to Summerville, SC (just outside of Charleston) back in February, and are trying like hell to get back to the Middletown area. I know Freehold well, beautiful area with a lot of old school charm. There are some awesome Jewish delis on Route 9 over there too..

And how I miss those delis.......:imaginingapastramionryewithmustard:

I just had one last week when I was up for Christmas on marble rye with mozzarella and mustard... mmmm.... If you are ever back, you have to head up 9 to Raritan Center in Edison and try a pastrami from Harold's New York Style Deli... No lie- the sandwiches are a foot high. Perfect for gluttonous fatbodies like myself.

I am VERY familiar with Harold's, both the Edison and Caldwell-area ones, as well as the Carnegie in NYC (and Vegas). The eclairs and cakes are something to behold too. 26 oz. pastrami/corned beef mix (the Woody Allen at Carnegie) or the Abe Lebewohl and a knish was my go-to order. Of course, the sandwich required a trip to the bread bar for about 10 more slices of rye so that I could eat it for dinner that night and lunch the next day as well.

 

[DawgPoundNJ]

My wife and I moved to Summerville, SC (just outside of Charleston) back in February, and are trying like hell to get back to the Middletown area. I know Freehold well, beautiful area with a lot of old school charm. There are some awesome Jewish delis on Route 9 over there too..

And how I miss those delis.......:imaginingapastramionryewithmustard:

I just had one last week when I was up for Christmas on marble rye with mozzarella and mustard... mmmm.... If you are ever back, you have to head up 9 to Raritan Center in Edison and try a pastrami from Harold's New York Style Deli... No lie- the sandwiches are a foot high. Perfect for gluttonous fatbodies like myself.

I am VERY familiar with Harold's, both the Edison and Caldwell-area ones, as well as the Carnegie in NYC (and Vegas). The eclairs and cakes are something to behold too. 26 oz. pastrami/corned beef mix (the Woody Allen at Carnegie) or the Abe Lebewohl and a knish was my go-to order. Of course, the sandwich required a trip to the bread bar for about 10 more slices of rye so that I could eat it for dinner that night and lunch the next day as well.

Here you go, EG...Ah, the Pickle Bar at Harold's. Gotta go after 5PM to get the Apple Muffins. Love the rye too, soft inside, crunchy crust. My wife and I usually split the Hungarian Goulash (and have lunch and dinner for the next day). We learned our lesson with the dessert: we tried the eclair and the table of 4 wound up giving half of it to the table next to us... It is a hoot though walking in and seeing chocolate cakes that look like tree stumps.

Ok, back to your regularly scheduled Derek Anderson love/hatefest.

 

[Couch Potato]

One thing that is clear from this and other threads discussing DA: there are large numbers of people on both sides of the fence. It will be interesting to see how his career unfolds over the next few years. If I'm wrong and he excels going forward, kudos to those who believe in him and reap the rewards because of it. At his price today and with my view of the future ahead of him, I'm not willing to be one of those people.

 

[DawgPoundNJ]

Like I said, as a Browns fan that has watched every snap that Anderson has had in a Browns uni, claiming DA off Baltimore's practice squad and watching him play all the way to a Pro Bowl alternate is and has been fun. It's like hitting big on a $1 scratch off.

I think it's time to cash in. Brady Quinn is the guy long-term, and those picks for Anderson can certainly help with the defensive line. If Quinn is the franchise QB that they believe he is, it certainly would be nice to see the Browns back in to the playoffs and Anderson increase his value with a nice playoff showing. If he was to light up the Chargers, the price goes way up.

This team is close to being a very good team, but does not have the luxury of carrying two franchise QBs (if that is what DA is deemed as in the eyes of other GMs). We need a dominant nose tackle to gobble up blockers to create room for Wimbley and co. to put pressure on the passer. When that happens, that defense will go from 31st to top 10 in a jiffy.